[Phil Osophy]

These matches between NTs are normally played without risk, just keeping the structure and trying to avoid a mistake. Except a pair of teams it's always the same, pretty simple and conservative, boring football. There's not too much room for creativity and individual brilliance. Rooney was as quiet as the rest, he did nothing special except a pair of deep passes but it was the standard display for this kind of match.

If any player can improve his performances then give him the chance, but I'm sure that it will be the same story for England in every sense without Rooney, in terms of football and results. The NT is mediocre collective and individually, and here at United we had the dutch *********** and his boring fest for two years, aiming for the 1-0 every weekend. And David 'the Phenomenon' Moyes before, who made a group of champions look like football amateurs. Not easy times for anybody to perform with regularity.

It's obvious that Rooney is now a weak shadow of his best times, he has lost physicality, aggressivity, goal hunger, but he's always playing in a really poor context and it has to be said too. And even with it I don't think he's awful as some people say, and he's still having his great moments here and there. The problem with him (my problem at least) is the protection from the press and his wages, undeserved in both cases. But nobody gives you a place for free at United if you are useless, and even less people like LVG and Mourinho who can't digest a loss and don't marry anybody in football. If Rooney is done, he'll be sitting on the bench sooner than later so you don't have to worry. But if he keeps playing under every manager maybe you are the ones who have to question your beliefs.

 

[Shark]

I didn't watch England but I assume he was shite.

 

[LouisDanGaal]

The fact you are suggesting he created six chances in that game tells us all we need to know.

5 in total, its not me suggesting it but stats and you know fact. I like your version of events too, probably where he just fell over for 90 minutes while wearing a I hate united shirt.

 

[LouisDanGaal]

So LVG and big Sam know what they're doing and Ferguson didn't?...

Well I mean Fergie played Rooney as a vital member of his first 11 for 7 years so he probably rated him.

Then theres some speculation he wanted to sell him based off very little as the story is actually that Rooney put in a transfer request but now people are using that as an example of fergie knowing Rooney was on the decline, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense given that nothing actually suggests that except a couple of people on here.

 

[ivaldo]

5 in total, its not me suggesting it but stats and you know fact. I like your version of events too, probably where he just fell over for 90 minutes while wearing a I hate united shirt.

Facts hey? Where are these facts? And you said he created the goal after he created 5 chances, that makes 6 by your logic.

No, I thought he had a decent game, its the minimum I expect of a player that demands the authority, reputation and wage he does. Unfortunately, he rarely hits the minimum standard and that's why he gets hammered. Then people like you come along and try to tell us he ripped Hull to peices.

 

[LouisDanGaal]

Facts hey? Where are these facts? And you said he created the goal after he created 5 chances, that makes 6 by your logic. I'm eager to find out what these chances he created were!

I meant 5 that's why i'm saying 5. Just watch the video or read the whole debate about 10 page ago, i'm not doing it again, i'm just not interested enough.

I genuinely feel there should be two Rooney threads, just to lighten up this place a little. One where those who are moderately optimistic he can have a good season can talk and one where everyone else gets a chance to moan. Debate is fun and everything but it doesn't really exist in here any more.

 

[ivaldo]

Well I mean Fergie played Rooney as a vital member of his first 11 for 7 years so he probably rated him.

Then theres some speculation he wanted to sell him based off very little as the story is actually that Rooney put in a transfer request but now people are using that as an example of fergie knowing Rooney was on the decline, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense given that nothing actually suggests that except a couple of people on here.

He was right to rate him back then, pretty much all of us rated him too. But, like Fergie, we've noticed his ridiculous decline in ability over the last several years, and instead of praising him like a God every time he manages to successfully scratch is arse, we've grown weary of his inept performances, one 7/10 out of 5 games isn't enough for most of us to warrant praising him as a demi-god anymore.

I meant 5 that's why i'm saying 5. Just watch the video or read the whole debate about 10 page ago, i'm not doing it again, i'm just not interested enough.

I genuinely feel there should be two Rooney threads, just to lighten up this place a little. One where those who are moderately optimistic he can have a good season can talk and one where everyone else gets a chance to moan. Debate is fun and everything but it doesn't really exist in here any more.

I watched the game, I remember it well. I remember him getting robbed of the ball twice in dangerous positions in the first half followed by a wildly overhit trademark switch pass in the space of a few minutes. I also remember he put in a dangerous freekick and a decent low cross from the right. What I dont remember is Rooney creating 5 chances. You whinge about others over exaggerating but you seem to have no problem with doing it yourself.

I mean you're telling us we should respect Big fecking Sam's opinion on Rooney because he's a professional manager yet we should ignore what Fergie thought about him because he was getting old and senile!

 

[YouOnlyLiveTwice]

We can't drop him since he is bringing the goods, but my god we could do better in terms of general play.

 

[Member 55725]

I meant 5 that's why i'm saying 5. Just watch the video or read the whole debate about 10 page ago, i'm not doing it again, i'm just not interested enough.

I genuinely feel there should be two Rooney threads, just to lighten up this place a little. One where those who are moderately optimistic he can have a good season can talk and one where everyone else gets a chance to moan. Debate is fun and everything but it doesn't really exist in here any more.

I'd second that idea! The 2 sides are so far away from eachother that there's no middle ground whatsoever.

 

[LouisDanGaal]

He was right to rate him back then, pretty much all of us rated him too. But, like Fergie, we've noticed his ridiculous decline in ability over the last several years, and instead of praising him like a God every time he manages to successfully scratch is arse, we've grown weary of his inept performances, one 7/10 out of 5 games isn't enough for most of us to warrant praising him as a demi-god anymore.

I watched the game, I don't need to read someone's warped opinion on what happened

There is nothing to suggest fergie wanted him out because of a decline, its actually more likely to be an attitude thing.

Praising him like a god? here is my post match review copy and pasted from 3 pages back: Played out of position, was bad in first, fine in second. Not exactly the best preparation ahead of the derby.

Its not a warped opinion if its matched with the video showing the chances and the stats counting them.

 

[LouisDanGaal]

I'd second that idea! The 2 sides are so far away from eachother that there's no middle ground whatsoever.

Definitely, it just irritates me, i'm seen as incredibly pro-rooney and I don't even like him that much, i'd happily replace him with many players but I get replies like I've just called him the next ballon d or winner

 

[Member 55725]

Definitely, it just irritates me, i'm seen as incredibly pro-rooney and I don't even like him that much, i'd happily replace him with many players but I get replies like I've just called him the next ballon d or winner

It's a shame we have this situation that polarises us. It dulls the enjoyment of being a Man Utd fan slightly when you get fans bickering so strongly with eachother. So I like your suggestion.

My suggestion is drop Rooney...

 

[LouisDanGaal]

It's a shame we have this situation that polarises us. It dulls the enjoyment of being a Man Utd fan slightly when you get fans bickering so strongly with eachother. So I like your suggestion.

My suggestion is drop Rooney...

Ha! I'm not taking the bait.

I say we play him.

 

[ivaldo]

There is nothing to suggest fergie wanted him out because of a decline, its actually more likely to be an attitude thing.

Praising him like a god? here is my post match review copy and pasted from 3 pages back: Played out of position, was bad in first, fine in second. Not exactly the best preparation ahead of the derby.

Its not a warped opinion if its matched with the video showing the chances and the stats counting them.

I see you've missed the irony in the tit for tat exaggeration I was trying to portray. I watched the match, I saw the video, it was an average performance. And if you're actually usually the chances created stat (any pass that results in a shot) instead of actually using your own eyes to judge what a chance is, then God save you.

 

[LouisDanGaal]

I see you've missed the irony in the title for tar exaggeration I was trying to portray. I watched the match, I saw the video, it was n average performance. And if you're actually usually the chances created stat (any pass that results in a shot) instead of actually using your own eyes to judge what a chance is, then God save you.

Don't even care at this point. Drop him, play him, whatever, lets just stop talking about it.

 

[manunited1919]

I post a fair assessment of his game after every game. I do the same for several players, Bailly, Blind, Valencia, Fellaini, Pogba, Ibra, whoever, this is the only thread where I get 7 alerts for saying a player played decent. I haven't even said anything stronger than decent game, its astounding the responses you get in here for normal comments.

Give it up Louis. He is finished.

 

[LouisDanGaal]

Give it up Louis. He is finished.

ha!

 

[Member 55725]

Ha! I'm not taking the bait.

I say we play him.

And the cycle continues..

 

[Adam-Utd]

His positioning in the first half was very odd at times, he was standing in the lb position more often than not, picking the ball up off the cbs 5 yards away. That isn't finding the space.

I don't know who's brainwashed him into thinking he's a great midfielder and doing a good job for the team (Lvg?) it's just very vey strange. Sam allardyce seems just happy he's got the job no chance is he going to rock the boat

 

[dichinero]

We can't drop him since he is bringing the goods, but my god we could do better in terms of general play.

You see, this possibility doesn't seem to exist according to some here. Moyes and LvG have a good job on some fans that the standards have fallen so low.

 

[ivaldo]

Don't even care at this point. Drop him, play him, whatever, lets just stop talking about it.

Fair enough. Night chap.

 

[Adisa]

Cannot believe a player who's about to become our highest ever goal scorer, one of our greatest ever players, longest serving players...polarising the fanbase so much. When he leaves us, he will be remembered as a truly great United player. In the meantime, it's only going to get worse.
Within the space of 12 months, we've seen people/media argue that he's at his best in three positions. Midfield, No.10 and striker. And in all three of those positions, you get the overriding feeling that we can do better.

 

[dichinero]

Cannot believe a player whose about to become our highest ever goal scorer, one of our greatest ever players, longest serving players...polarising the fanbase so much. When he leaves us, he will be remembered as a truly great United player. In the meantime, it's only going to get worse.
Within the space of 12 months, we've seen people argue that he's at his best in three positions. Midfield, No.10 and striker. And in all three of those positions, you get the overriding feeling that we can do better.

That's the sad thing. If he left United when Fergie wanted to get rid, I'd have only have great memories of him but unfortunately I can't pretend like the last couple of seasons never happened.
Like I said, I liked the Wayne Rooney that wore the #8. Not a fan of the #10 one. I don't see things getting better either.

 

[Sylar]

At least non United England fans understand the problem United have had for 3 years now.

Of course he can have a shit game against City and if he pops up with the winner, no United fan will care at that moment (Of course the Rooney lovers will say "hes back" or use that as a way to rub it into the faces of people who think hes rightfully declined)

 

[Sylar]

That's the sad thing. If he left United when Fergie wanted to get rid, I'd have only have great memories of him but unfortunately I can't pretend like the last couple of seasons never happened.
Like I said, I liked the Wayne Rooney that wore the #8. Not a fan of the #10 one. I don't see things getting better either.

So basically, if he was a manager he would be Arsene Wenger :P

 

[Zen]

So he's England manager then?

 

[Handré1990]

I have been trying to find a post from a few days, maybe a week back. There was a poster who wrote a long and, imo, brilliant meta analysis about how pointless this thread have become because of the extreme polar positions posters take up with regards to Rooney. He stipulated that any debate in here is basically nonexistent, just a bunch of people screaming opposites to each other. I would much appreciate it if someone happens to know which post I'm talking about, and point me in the right direction. (tough ask, I know)

It made me take a long hard look at my own position on this poisonous subject. I have wanted him out of the team for about a year now, maybe even longer. How he survived last fall was baffling and frankly beyond my comprehension. However, this is a very strange time to up the critisism. Granted, I didn't watch the England game, and don't give a damn about Englands NT.

What I've seen from Rooney so far this season is that he has lost the ball a couple of times a game, and a few in dangerous positions. He has slowed down potential attacks when fumbling to get the ball under controll, and haven't been one of our better players. On the other hand, he has indeed contributed to several good moves a game, and, this is the most important part for me, he has contributed with cold hard results on the scoreboard with assists and a goal.

Why is this the time to take up the extreme position that he's useless? I said something along the lines of this in the newbs when he was scoring and assisting in 6-7 games on the trot in January: we can all see that Rooney has been well below par this season, but as long as he contributes to goals, keep him in the team. Because, you know, we can complicate the discussion all we like with tactical analysis and high pitched intellectual reasoning as to why he should be dropped, when the simple matter of the fact, for me, is that goals is the ideal goal of the game. I've a very strong believe, and hope, that when Rooney doesn't do this, and plays badly (which for me, he hasn't so far this season), Mourinho will drop him.

Now I feel dirty, and will probably be branded a fanboy, which I'm not. Just don't like to deal in absolutes, it's the dark side of the force!

Let the onslaught begin..

 

[clarkydaz]

I have been trying to find a post from a few days, maybe a week back. There was a poster who wrote a long and, imo, brilliant meta analysis about how pointless this thread have become because of the extreme polar positions posters take up with regards to Rooney. He stipulated that any debate in here is basically nonexistent, just a bunch of people screaming opposites to each other. I would much appreciate it if someone happens to know which post I'm talking about, and point me in the right direction. (tough ask, I know)

It made me take a long hard look at my own position on this poisonous subject. I have wanted him out of the team for about a year now, maybe even longer. How he survived last fall was baffling and frankly beyond my comprehension. However, this is a very strange time to up the critisism. Granted, I didn't watch the England game, and don't give a damn about Englands NT.

What I've seen from Rooney so far this season is that he has lost the ball a couple of times a game, and a few in dangerous positions. He has slowed down potential attacks when fumbling to get the ball under controll, and haven't been one of our better players. On the other hand, he has indeed contributed to several good moves a game, and, this is the most important part for me, he has contributed with cold hard results on the scoreboard with assists and a goal.

Why is this the time to take up the extreme position that he's useless? I said something along the lines of this in the newbs when he was scoring and assisting in 6-7 games on the trot in January: we can all see that Rooney has been well below par this season, but as long as he contributes to goals, keep him in the team. Because, you know, we can complicate the discussion all we like with tactical analysis and high pitched intellectual reasoning as to why he should be dropped, when the simple matter of the fact, for me, is that goals is the ideal goal of the game. I've a very strong believe, and hope, that when Rooney doesn't do this, and plays badly (which for me, he hasn't so far this season), Mourinho will drop him.

Now I feel dirty, and will probably be branded a fanboy, which I'm not. Just don't like to deal in absolutes, it's the dark side of the force!

Let the onslaught begin..

the comments from the England manager after the game tonight, are frankly baffling. Rightly or wrongly it riles people up

 

[Handré1990]

the comments from the England manager after the game tonight, are frankly baffling. Rightly or wrongly it riles people up

Sure, I get that, I felt sick when LvG kept pushing the "captain always plays" last autumn, but that wasn't really my point.

 

[Red Dreams]

Based on the last three matches Rooney has earned the right to play against City. He should have been played as a pure 10 for England too.

But lets remember that Rooney is not a disciplined player. Even in the last three matches for us he has driffted deep into midfield. I'm not sure this is what Mourinho wants...nor Sam.

But I remember Fergie getting frustrated with him and once calling him to the sidelines to straighten him out.

 

[Art Vandelay]

I have been trying to find a post from a few days, maybe a week back. There was a poster who wrote a long and, imo, brilliant meta analysis about how pointless this thread have become because of the extreme polar positions posters take up with regards to Rooney. He stipulated that any debate in here is basically nonexistent, just a bunch of people screaming opposites to each other. I would much appreciate it if someone happens to know which post I'm talking about, and point me in the right direction. (tough ask, I know)

It made me take a long hard look at my own position on this poisonous subject. I have wanted him out of the team for about a year now, maybe even longer. How he survived last fall was baffling and frankly beyond my comprehension. However, this is a very strange time to up the critisism. Granted, I didn't watch the England game, and don't give a damn about Englands NT.

What I've seen from Rooney so far this season is that he has lost the ball a couple of times a game, and a few in dangerous positions. He has slowed down potential attacks when fumbling to get the ball under controll, and haven't been one of our better players. On the other hand, he has indeed contributed to several good moves a game, and, this is the most important part for me, he has contributed with cold hard results on the scoreboard with assists and a goal.

Why is this the time to take up the extreme position that he's useless? I said something along the lines of this in the newbs when he was scoring and assisting in 6-7 games on the trot in January: we can all see that Rooney has been well below par this season, but as long as he contributes to goals, keep him in the team. Because, you know, we can complicate the discussion all we like with tactical analysis and high pitched intellectual reasoning as to why he should be dropped, when the simple matter of the fact, for me, is that goals is the ideal goal of the game. I've a very strong believe, and hope, that when Rooney doesn't do this, and plays badly (which for me, he hasn't so far this season), Mourinho will drop him.

Now I feel dirty, and will probably be branded a fanboy, which I'm not. Just don't like to deal in absolutes, it's the dark side of the force!

Let the onslaught begin..

I don't think people are taking up that position now or very many are saying that he's useless. It's more that he's spent so long being so disappointing and underwhelming that people have just completely given up on him and once you reach that point you feel a fool suddenly putting faith back in him. Especially when his actual performances although improved still aren't good enough.

 

[manunited1919]

The Times going with:
New Boss Old Problem

http://www.101greatgoals.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/times-804x1024.jpg

 

[Handré1990]

I don't think people are taking up that position now or very many are saying that he's useless. It's more that he's spent so long being so disappointing and underwhelming that people have just completely given up on him and once you reach that point you feel a fool suddenly putting faith back in him. Especially when his actual performances although improved still aren't good enough.

You're right, it has been like that for a while, but it's like there is no grey area: either he's crap or he's (very) good, and you can just turn back the last few pages and see for yourself that several people are indeed calling him useless or words to that effect (f*** off to China). Christ, look at the heat @LouisDanGaal came under after daring to share his opinion that Rooney has been decent for us so far! Not great, or even very good mind, just decent/ok-ish.

What is the definition for good enough for the team, by the way? Not trying to be pedantic, genuine question.

Like I tried to point out in my original post, he's been decent for us, not one of the worst by a long shot, and has contributed to the only really relevant tangible results that matter, assists and goals. Martial, who I absolutely adore, and believe will be our best player by far in a few years, and Mata who I'm a massive fan of, have been worse for me.

I know, I know. Apples and oranges, Martial is young and developing and Mata isn't playing in his best position. Rooney doesn't get much slack like that, even though he has been much more instrumental to our perfect start to the season.

 

[Red Stone]

I don't think people are taking up that position now or very many are saying that he's useless. It's more that he's spent so long being so disappointing and underwhelming that people have just completely given up on him and once you reach that point you feel a fool suddenly putting faith back in him. Especially when his actual performances although improved still aren't good enough.

In a sense Rooney has become the personification of our three years of mediocrity post-SAF. The start of the problems we've had with him started when he signed his new contract. It's safe to assume SAF would have gotten rid if he had stayed for another season, while Moyes and van Gaal have given him so much leeway. They have coincidentally also failed miserably at their jobs. That makes it makes it very easy to connect the new contract and his special privileges to Moyes and van Gaal's failings. I think Mourinho is a new beginning for the club and the Rooney era needs to end before the new era can truly begin.

 

[stevoc]

In a sense Rooney has become the personification of our three years of mediocrity post-SAF. The start of the problems we've had with him started when he signed his new contract. It's safe to assume SAF would have gotten rid if he had stayed for another season, while Moyes and van Gaal have given him so much leeway. They have coincidentally also failed miserably at their jobs. That makes it makes it very easy to connect the new contract and his special privileges to Moyes and van Gaal's failings. I think Mourinho is a new beginning for the club and the Rooney era needs to end before the new era can truly begin.

I'm not sure it's safe to assume that at all. Did Ferguson ever say he would have actually sold him?

They had a bit of a tiff that Ferguson made public, i'm sure they had a few of them over the years thats weren't made public and they got over them. They had one the over his contract renewal in 2010 also and all was forgotten as soon as he re-signed. I highly doubt he would have been allowed to leave even if Ferguson had stayed.

 

[wr8_utd]

Genuine question. Would people here be happy if he had a 20 goals 10 assist season or just sad that he'd get to play next season too?

 

[K2K]

I'm not sure it's safe to assume that at all. Did Ferguson ever say he would have actually sold him?

They had a bit of a tiff that Ferguson made public, i'm sure they had a few of them over the years thats weren't made public and they got over them. They had one the over his contract renewal in 2010 also and all was forgotten as soon as he re-signed. I highly doubt he would have been allowed to leave even if Ferguson had stayed.

If Fergie wanted him gone,he would have been gone.

There is no way anyone would have overruled Ferguson had he stayed.

 

[K2K]

Genuine question. Would people here be happy if he had a 20 goals 10 assist season or just sad that he'd get to play next season too?

This kinds of statements take fanboyism to ridiculous levels.

People want him gone because they don't think he can't do it anymore, not because they don't want him to.

I've realised that with most Rooney fans on this site have now resorted to trying to make it sound like anyone that dares criticizes him simply has an agenda against him. They have long given up trying to actually defend his on pitch perfomances which most of the time warrant the criticism.

Quite frankly,it's just pathetic.

 

[VP]

Genuine question. Would people here be happy if he had a 20 goals 10 assist season or just sad that he'd get to play next season too?

Genuine question. Would you happy if United win the league without Rooney or would you prefer a 5th place finish with Rooney starting every game?

 

[PepsiCola]

We've gotten to a point people are questioning Ferguson to defend Rooney