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2016-17 Performances


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5.2 Season Average Rating
Appearances
39
Goals
8
Assists
10
Yellow cards
8
Status
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And assists and goals are not a good measure of who is "more dangerous in attack"? This is why you lot have holes in your argument.
Actually, Rooney quite recently played a match where he got an important goal but didn't have a team behind him to carry his passenger arse for the remainder of the game...

England vs. Iceland at the Euros. That didn't go so well, did it?


And to further emphasize Stringer's point in the post above mine: Iniesta had a grand total of one assist and zero goals at the Euros in 2012. Anyone remember who won the Golden Ball for that tournament?
 
Actually, Rooney quite recently played a match where he got an important goal but didn't have a team behind him to carry his passenger arse for the remainder of the game...

England vs. Iceland at the Euros. That didn't go so well, did it?


And to further emphasize Stringer's point in the post above mine: Iniesta had a grand total of one assist and zero goals at the Euros in 2012. Anyone remember who won the Golden Ball for that tournament?

Reading stuff like this will just damage my IQ. I asked if assists or goals do not mean good performances, not good performances only need assists or goals. But whatever. The anti Rooney brigade has some of the most twisted logic out there.
 
I am sorry but I cannot argue with this. I can't agree with this point that a player who has as much productivity as Rooney is not an attacking threat.

He obviously has some attacking threat. The argument is whether he's better than Mkhitaryan, Mata or even Rashford. What do you believe he offers over them?
 
Reading stuff like this will just damage my IQ. I asked if assists or goals do not mean good performances, not good performances only need assists or goals. But whatever. The anti Rooney brigade has some of the most twisted logic out there.

No, an assist or goal does not automatically mean a player has had a good performance. Does that clear things up for you? I hadn't realised football had become a science.
 
No, an assist or goal does not automatically mean a player has had a good performance. Does that clear things up for you? I hadn't realised football had become a science.
Caf logic is a 2/10 performance for 90 mins + 1 goal at 91min = 8/10 performance!
 
A load of baloney Steve and you know it, pal. You are just playing to the gallery yourself.
aCTUALLY, ABOUT THE ONLY THING WE HAVE IN COMMON ON THIS SUBJECT IS THAT WE'RE BOTH SINCERE IN OUR VIEWS.


But at least you're not so stupid as leave caps-lock on while you post. Doh.
 
You state that because people believe Rooney's performances were poor last year, we should suddenly regard any improvement as a 'good to decent standard'. Not sure how that makes sense, a player can be poor, slightly improve (which is debatable IMO) and still be poor or decent at best. Even if we accept he has been average/decent, that shouldn't be sufficient to keep your place when you're playing for Manchester United and there are players like Myhitaryan sitting on the bench.
His place in the team wasn't under threat at the end of last season though? His form had raised quite dramatically in a different role (one that is infinitely more synonymous with where he is playing now) and we won silverware (with a significant contribution from Rooney) and finished off a poor league campaign. Not ideal but still an upward trend for the team/squad (Rooney included). A new manager has now come in and said that Rooney is obviously one of our best and most experienced players and will play him in a role that suits his game far better than where LVG was playing him up front last season. Even at a base level, an improvement to the team has got to be seen in a positive light? No?

Mhki has barely kicked a ball in England yet and I completely understand that the fans want to bust out our new toy and play with it. The manager is doing the right thing in man-managing his player and slowly introducing him into the team. He has all the data on the situation to do that properly, trust him. Essentially, for examples sake; if Mkhi performed shite for three games and our start was poor, you would be getting a similar response to when we played Wigan and the subsequent few games "is he good enough, my knees are sore from jerking so hard I don't think he'll make it here". I much prefer imported players get introduced slowly and develop on their own into a settled environment and squad role before advancing to the first team. The fans are salivating at the prospect and really gagging for him to be unleashed and that is great, one of the best parts of football. But somehow it has manifested itself into a stick to beat Rooney with, yet another one. We saw what chopping the squad and shoving players in that are underdone did to our consistency in the last two seasons. The Gaffer is spot on with his management of Mkhi in my opinion, even Ibra is not immune from this but the Gaffer is right to trust his players and how he uses them, like we should be able to trust him to do what is right by us.

I don't think the fans can really say that he isn't doing the right thing. We're three from three so far and getting our confidence and swagger back slowly but surely. I completely understand that after having SAF so long that the last three years have smashed the fans trust in the manager as well, that is a big part of understanding why Rooney provokes this kind of reaction. I bet Jose knows this as well, some of his comments show he has a positive read on the situation.
His contributions ie. goals and assists do indeed look good on paper but watching the actual matches I believe it is clear that they do not outweigh the negatives he brings to the team's performances. The goal against Bournemouth was a relatively simple finish and I would be disappointed if any of our attacking players were to miss such an opportunity. The goal against Southampton came about mainly down to Ibrahimovic's strength in the air more than any exceptional play on Rooney's part. Obviously the goal against Hull can be attributed to Rooney's brilliant play; I can't dispute that.
The B'mouth goal was an excellent header, I do not agree at all that it was a "relatively simple finish", to play it down as such does a massive disservice to the argument. The Soton goal he just humped a ball in, agree that it was nothing more than Zlatan making something out of a speculative cross. Hull needs no explaning.

You seem unable to accept any criticism of Rooney which is rather strange in a thread created solely to discuss his performances and you yourself seem unwilling to accept any/or little criticism of him. Seems a bit one sided and perhaps you should create a thread solely for the purpose of praising him. I don't imagine it will be particularly active but might suit your needs a bit more.
Sorry but this is another load of rubbish, nothing more than political point scoring to further suit the narrative. It is the standard hyperbole go-to line when discussion arises from the sensible center. "Unable to accept any criticism" is such a reach to far. Criticism is fine, you'll notice I've not really said much about the genuine and general criticism.

There really hasn't been that much to criticize. If on average a player has 10 poor touches out of 150 in three games it isn't going to get me upset and I've stated nothing more than that. I think it is healthy for the fans to demand a high standard, the nonsense in this thread is all I have targeted and attacked because it is well wide of the mark. It is unnecessary given the context of how Rooney and the team have been performing and it seriously hampers any people who want to have a proper discussion about it. I am happy to have a general discussion about Rooney but it instantly gets derailed with conspiracy theories, re-writing of history, personal waterboarding of users who want to give their opinion, jostling among each other to get a laugh with silly comments, smileys and name calling. Droves of users then pile in and exacerbating the problem. It is just tedious now to even try it.

I bet if you polled the board and asked if users would contribute more to this thread if there wasn't so much nonsense in here you'd probably find a solid number would be willing to, but out of general tedium they do not. I think that is definitely the most disappointing aspect.
 
No, an assist or goal does not automatically mean a player has had a good performance. Does that clear things up for you? I hadn't realised football had become a science.

In by books a striker scoring a goal is generally a good performance. Apart from that, you make it sound like he was horrid for the rest of the game.

Also, I didn't realize football had become about analyzing how many times a fecking attacking player loses the ball.


He obviously has some attacking threat. The argument is whether he's better than Mkhitaryan, Mata or even Rashford. What do you believe he offers over them?

I don't know what you mean by "better", form or player? In any case before Hull I wanted Mikhi to start ahead of Rooney but since Rooney is consistently providing the goods I want him to stay and maybe see Mata get replaced

At the end of the day I see 4 spots for which Zlatan, Rashford, Martial, Rooney, Mata and Miki all have to compete. As for right now, I'd like Zlatan, Mikhi Mata and Rooney or maybe Rasfhord for Mata. Martial may be "better" than Rafshord but I want him dropped for the next game because Rashford is provided a goal.
 
I think it speaks volumes that almost every "supporter" of Rooney on here agrees that he has declined and had a bad season last year but every hater thinks he is completely finished. Shows the objectivity.
 
And assists and goals are not a good measure of who is "more dangerous in attack"? This is why you lot have holes in your argument.
How can Rashford or Mkhi score or assist when they don't get given the minutes? Rashford has matched Rooney's goal tally in 10 minutes! Mhki has looked sharp but only been brought on at the very end of games, even then he could have had an assist for Pogba against Southampton.

This arguement that Rooney puts up the numbers is very flawed. If he can continue scoring and assisting while raising his game to a level that is decent, I will be happy. When he continues strolling round the pitch conserving energy and ruining attacks with dodgy touches I won't be. Obviously you are happy to have Rooney in the team if he does something in 90 minutes, but the playmaker for me has to be more productive.
 
I think it speaks volumes that almost every "supporter" of Rooney on here agrees that he has declined and had a bad season last year but every hater thinks he is completely finished. Shows the objectivity.
Your generalization of posters who share a different view to yours also shows a lack of objectivity and contributes to the mess this debate has degenerated to. I believe the general point the "Rooney haters" are making is that he is not good enough to warrant completely shutting out his spot to competition like we have seen from Van Gaal and Mourinho thus far. Even if his stats look good as things stand his performances shouldn't be enough to stop the manager wondering if he can be improved upon especially considering who he is keeping out. That's not hate or lack of objectivity, lacking objectivity is severely lowering the bar where Rooney is concerned.
 
Your generalization of posters who share a different view to yours also shows a lack of objectivity and contributes to the mess this debate has degenerated to. I believe the general point the "Rooney haters" are making is that he is not good enough to warrant completely shutting out his spot to competition like we have seen from Van Gaal and Mourinho thus far. Even if his stats look good as things stand his performances shouldn't be enough to stop the manager wondering if he can be improved upon especially considering who he is keeping out. That's not hate or lack of objectivity, lacking objectivity is severely lowering the bar where Rooney is concerned.

That's fair, but then you have to take in to account the other attacking players who can be improved upon as well in the team. Mata and Martial should easily be dropped first if we are just taking performances this season in to account. And Zlatan has not been great in a game yet, although you can see his value in getting the ball over the line even when not playing well. Should we just drop the front 4 and hope for the best?
 
That's fair, but then you have to take in to account the other attacking players who can be improved upon as well in the team. Mata and Martial should easily be dropped first if we are just taking performances this season in to account. And Zlatan has not been great in a game yet, although you can see his value in getting the ball over the line even when not playing well. Should we just drop the front 4 and hope for the best?
Like you said players like Martial and Mata have been poor 'when taking into account this season' whereas Rooney has been at it for far longer and his 'privileges' have left a residual bitterness which is unfair on the player. The other big difference is that we know that all the other players can and will pay for their performances with their spot in the side but we are yet to see that with Rooney, Mata in particular will not featuring in the near future that much is clear.
 
Like you said players like Martial and Mata have been poor 'when taking into account this season' whereas Rooney has been at it for far longer and his 'privileges' have left a residual bitterness which is unfair on the player. The other big difference is that we know that all the other players can and will pay for their performances with their spot in the side but we are yet to see that with Rooney, Mata in particular will not featuring in the near future that much is clear.

How is that 'clear' when mata and Rooney have started in all 3 games yet?:wenger:
 
That's fair, but then you have to take in to account the other attacking players who can be improved upon as well in the team. Mata and Martial should easily be dropped first if we are just taking performances this season in to account. And Zlatan has not been great in a game yet, although you can see his value in getting the ball over the line even when not playing well. Should we just drop the front 4 and hope for the best?
I think can be made for the rest not to be dropped.

No one is expecting Zlatan to tear up the league given his age and his lack of PL experience so to speak and so far he has brought something that we don't have; a presence up front and he is possibly the most clinical player up front. The other option is Rashford, but he is not better than Zlatan just yet.

Martial has not had a great start to the season but isn't that because the comparison is with his exploits last year? He's only 20 and we know that he can produce on the big stage, more consistently than Rooney. He is also more physically capable than Rooney is. The other option is Memphis, who isn't better than Martial at the moment.

Mata has better performances this season as a whole than Rooney barring the end products. Over the course of 90 minutes he has looked more comfortable on the ball than pinball Rooney, tidier and the ball and keeps things flowing better. That said, we should be expecting more from him. The other option is Lingard, whose overall play still needs working but can bring in something different.

The common factor between those 3 is that they are more likely to get better as the season goes by as opposed to Rooney who doesn't fill many fans with such confidence. The other options are Micky, and possibly Mata or Zlatan or Herrera in a 3MM, all options that are much better than Rooney as opposed to Zlatan, Martial and Mata.
 
Mata hasn't really had better performances at all. Even his goal was more of a stroke of luck than his brilliance. He created a few chances but was largely underwhelming
 
I think can be made for the rest not to be dropped.

No one is expecting Zlatan to tear up the league given his age and his lack of PL experience so to speak and so far he has brought something that we don't have; a presence up front and he is possibly the most clinical player up front. The other option is Rashford, but he is not better than Zlatan just yet.

Martial has not had a great start to the season but isn't that because the comparison is with his exploits last year? He's only 20 and we know that he can produce on the big stage, more consistently than Rooney. He is also more physically capable than Rooney is. The other option is Memphis, who isn't better than Martial at the moment.

Mata has better performances this season as a whole than Rooney barring the end products. Over the course of 90 minutes he has looked more comfortable on the ball than pinball Rooney, tidier and the ball and keeps things flowing better. That said, we should be expecting more from him. The other option is Lingard, whose overall play still needs working but can bring in something different.

The common factor between those 3 is that they are more likely to get better as the season goes by as opposed to Rooney who doesn't fill many fans with such confidence. The other options are Micky, and possibly Mata or Zlatan or Herrera in a 3MM, all options that are much better than Rooney as opposed to Zlatan, Martial and Mata.

You can make a case for any player to be in the line up and I can make one for rooney. The whole him having the most contributions this season joint with zlatan. And in terms of goals/assists per minute last season he is actually slightly ahead of martial I believe.
 
Mata hasn't really had better performances at all. Even his goal was more of a stroke of luck than his brilliance. He created a few chances but was largely underwhelming

I am completely with you on this, I think mata has drifted through games, I think we haven't seen his best since that run when him and Herrera were playing together towards the right.
 
Like you said players like Martial and Mata have been poor 'when taking into account this season' whereas Rooney has been at it for far longer and his 'privileges' have left a residual bitterness which is unfair on the player. The other big difference is that we know that all the other players can and will pay for their performances with their spot in the side but we are yet to see that with Rooney, Mata in particular will not featuring in the near future that much is clear.

Yeah but just because people say something a lot doesn't mean it is true. Rooney is obviously droppable, Mourinho has said as much, I have no idea why people think he has his place in the team due to anything other than performances. If he stops helping us win he will 100% be dropped, this is Mourinho, he loves a statement dropping and won't let anyone get in the way of him winning if possible.
 
I think can be made for the rest not to be dropped.

No one is expecting Zlatan to tear up the league given his age and his lack of PL experience so to speak and so far he has brought something that we don't have; a presence up front and he is possibly the most clinical player up front. The other option is Rashford, but he is not better than Zlatan just yet.

Martial has not had a great start to the season but isn't that because the comparison is with his exploits last year? He's only 20 and we know that he can produce on the big stage, more consistently than Rooney. He is also more physically capable than Rooney is. The other option is Memphis, who isn't better than Martial at the moment.

Mata has better performances this season as a whole than Rooney barring the end products. Over the course of 90 minutes he has looked more comfortable on the ball than pinball Rooney, tidier and the ball and keeps things flowing better. That said, we should be expecting more from him. The other option is Lingard, whose overall play still needs working but can bring in something different.

The common factor between those 3 is that they are more likely to get better as the season goes by as opposed to Rooney who doesn't fill many fans with such confidence. The other options are Micky, and possibly Mata or Zlatan or Herrera in a 3MM, all options that are much better than Rooney as opposed to Zlatan, Martial and Mata.
I think there's a case to be made for Rooney competing with Martial or Mata for the wing spots. No one can deny that we looked a much better team and Rooney looked a much better player when Mkhitaryan got the central role and Rooney was pushed out wide against Hull. It completely changed the game from being merely one-sided to being an all-out assault of the Hull penalty box. We could easily have scored three or four if it hadn't been for a world class defensive performance from Davies and Long Name in goal in particular. Rooney's best contributions this season - the assists against Southampton and Hull - have also come from wide positions, so there's no need for him to play centrally to produce those all-important numbers.

Moving him away from behind the striker helps cover up the fact that his touch gets him in trouble far too often by reducing the amount of pressure from opposition players around him and it allows Mkhitaryan to act as the hub of the attack, linking everything together with his fluidity and movement. If Rooney absolutely has to play, for me that makes more sense than continuing with him in a position where he has looked a bit out of his depth for four straight games.
 
You can make a case for any player to be in the line up and I can make one for rooney. The whole him having the most contributions this season joint with zlatan. And in terms of goals/assists per minute last season he is actually slightly ahead of martial I believe.
He's had the most contributions? Yes but without being disrespectful to the teams we have played, they are not the most difficult opponents. He has managed to do that to his credit but it must not be ignored that he has played poorly so far. These contributions are going to dry up very soon and then there will be nowhere to hide the poor performances. Fellaini is possibly the more "hated" player and without making distinct contributions, he has played significantly better. I'm not a fan of Fellaini and I still have my reservations about him but I can't deny that he looks like he can play better as the season wears on. That is the main problem with Rooney, his contributions are the only things saving him from.

He has more goals/assists per minute than Martial last season? So he should. It's not exactly something to shout about given that he is the more experienced player and played upfront most of the season. Even then, there is no denying that Martial was more superior to Rooney. He is simply the better football. It's funny that some are calling for Rooney to start on the LW because of one assist and Martial's start to the season.
 
...which is not that strange. Being able to decide the game at the very end is a pretty significant achievement and skill.

Nonsense mate, anyone can win you a game in the last minute. Making sure you play an easy 10 yard pass correctly in the 34th minute is the mark of a real player.
 
what concerns me about Rooney is that he doesn't seem to notice that his performance has been beow par for far too long. I don't think he looks after himself like other elite players do.
 
He's had the most contributions? Yes but without being disrespectful to the teams we have played, they are not the most difficult opponents. He has managed to do that to his credit but it must not be ignored that he has played poorly so far. These contributions are going to dry up very soon and then there will be nowhere to hide the poor performances. Fellaini is possibly the more "hated" player and without making distinct contributions, he has played significantly better. I'm not a fan of Fellaini and I still have my reservations about him but I can't deny that he looks like he can play better as the season wears on. That is the main problem with Rooney, his contributions are the only things saving him from.

He has more goals/assists per minute than Martial last season? So he should. It's not exactly something to shout about given that he is the more experienced player and played upfront most of the season. Even then, there is no denying that Martial was more superior to Rooney. He is simply the better football. It's funny that some are calling for Rooney to start on the LW because of one assist and Martial's start to the season.

All of the players have played the same teams, all of our players have played against whoever we have played against so that is the only way we can measure them. Rooney is top of contributions with 4 (I believe zlatan also has 4?)

Again his contributions are what win us the match none of the rest of it matters at all. If he loses the ball in the final third, it means absolutely nothing, we are playing with more risk and tempo, losing the ball or having a bad touch when a ball is zinged in to you doesn't affect the game in the slightest as much as people on here microanalyse these tihngs.

I looked on it on whoscored before and martial has 1 more in quite a lot more minutes, so I think so not 100% sure. There was a stage Rooney was bagging for fun last season, he was saving us when martial was hugely out of form. We have to expect that to happen again this season, martial will have poor patches due to age, we need as many players ready to step us as we can get.
 
I think there's a case to be made for Rooney competing with Martial or Mata for the wing spots. No one can deny that we looked a much better team and Rooney looked a much better player when Mkhitaryan got the central role and Rooney was pushed out wide against Hull. It completely changed the game from being merely one-sided to being an all-out assault of the Hull penalty box. We could easily have scored three or four if it hadn't been for a world class defensive performance from Davies and Long Name in goal in particular. Rooney's best contributions this season - the assists against Southampton and Hull - have also come from wide positions, so there's no need for him to play centrally to produce those all-important numbers.

Moving him away from behind the striker helps cover up the fact that his touch gets him in trouble far too often by reducing the amount of pressure from opposition players around him and it allows Mkhitaryan to act as the hub of the attack, linking everything together with his fluidity and movement. If Rooney absolutely has to play, for me that makes more sense than continuing with him in a position where he has looked a bit out of his depth for four straight games.

You are making good points but I'm more convinced that the game was changed because of the inclusion of McRyan and Rashford injecting pace with purpose and dive, applying pressure on the solid Hull defence as opposed to Rooney been moved to the left. When both of them came on Rooney was still in the middle, McRyan looked slightly uncomfortable out wide especially on the right while Rashford concentrated on the left. After a while both of them started rotating while Rooney remained central. It wasn't until McRyan started to occupy the centre that it looked like Rooney was forced out wide in the gung-ho moment, as opposed to been deployed there where he pulled that good skill out.

My point is that, Rooney been in that position was out of necessity and applied pressure rather than a tactical deployment. We cant afford to start shoehorning him yet again just because of 2 assists. What happens when he is not making an assist out wide? It will be to detriment of our team. It's almost like saying Fellaini should be shifted out wide if he created 3 assist for the wings every game this season.

And what point to we stop playing a player in a position where "he can be the least problem/liability" to the team? Rooney's position in the team that no one after Fergie: Moyes, LvG and Hodgson could solve. Can José be the guy at this stage of his decline? I honestly don't know.
 
I think it speaks volumes that almost every "supporter" of Rooney on here agrees that he has declined and had a bad season last year but every hater thinks he is completely finished. Shows the objectivity.

It's not that black and white you know :rolleyes:. Also whether he is "declined" or "finished" is highly subjective. Hes undoubtedly declined, but whether or not he is "finished" depends on how you define it.

It's not like Rooney is the worst thing since the bubonic plague, but whether or not the current Rooney he is good enough to have a regular spot for us. He still contributes, so hes not "finished" in that regard, but is it completely unreasonable to suggest that someone else could do a better job than him?
 
You are making good points but I'm more convinced that the game was changed because of the inclusion of McRyan and Rashford injecting pace with purpose and dive, applying pressure on the solid Hull defence as opposed to Rooney been moved to the left. When both of them came on Rooney was still in the middle, McRyan looked slightly uncomfortable out wide especially on the right while Rashford concentrated on the left. After a while both of them started rotating while Rooney remained central. It wasn't until McRyan started to occupy the centre that it looked like Rooney was forced out wide in the gung-ho moment, as opposed to been deployed there where he pulled that good skill out.

My point is that, Rooney been in that position was out of necessity and applied pressure rather than a tactical deployment. We cant afford to start shoehorning him yet again just because of 2 assists. What happens when he is not making an assist out wide? It will be to detriment of our team. It's almost like saying Fellaini should be shifted out wide if he created 3 assist for the wings every game this season.

And what point to we stop playing a player in a position where "he can be the least problem/liability" to the team? Rooney's position in the team that no one after Fergie: Moyes, LvG and Hodgson could solve. Can José be the guy at this stage of his decline? I honestly don't know.
I agree completely and I'm not giving Rooney the credit for our improved attacking play once Mkhitaryan and Rashford came on.

My points are:
1) Rooney looked better the wider he played
2) Mkhitaryan improved the level of all the players around him when he played through the middle.

Both those points tell me that Mkhitaryan should be the #10 instead of Rooney, and that if Rooney plays, he will play to his strenghts more and expose his weaknesses less as a winger. He shouldn't be in the #10 discussion at all because he's isn't a good #10.
 
Yeah but just because people say something a lot doesn't mean it is true. Rooney is obviously droppable, Mourinho has said as much, I have no idea why people think he has his place in the team due to anything other than performances. If he stops helping us win he will 100% be dropped, this is Mourinho, he loves a statement dropping and won't let anyone get in the way of him winning if possible.
Fair enough mate, I remain sceptical though. Fwiw I believe that Rooney can be utilized better in the wide positions because I just don't trust nor rate his input in the hole but if played wide right I think he is still a good crosser, can ghost in to finish off moves and has the work rate to help out Tony Valencia whose presence there would negate the former's lack of pace. In turn the team would enjoy better balance in midfield by pushing Pogba up and bringing in someone else to play the box to box role in a 4-3-3 with the point forward.
I think out on the wing you could justify output without performances but in the middle its a different matter because it affects the team's forward flow as a whole. So as you can see I'm not adamant that he should be out of the team because he can be useful when he is not the focal point or the fulcrum of the attack. I was one of the few who thought that there was merit in playing him in the deeper midfield role that he was playing at the back end of last season but I just felt we needed significant upgrades on players like Herrera and Schneiderlin, imagine him in a deeper role, Pogba as the furthest forward and a rock solid DM like that Polish guy that PSG signed, but that's another debate. altogether
 
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Again his contributions are what win us the match none of the rest of it matters at all. If he loses the ball in the final third, it means absolutely nothing, we are playing with more risk and tempo, losing the ball or having a bad touch when a ball is zinged in to you doesn't affect the game in the slightest as much as people on here microanalyse these tihngs.
Maybe that doesn't matter to you now because we have got maximum points but the time will come when we will play better teams over the course of the season and a game will need to be won by playing better than the opposition, which is how most games are won generally!

I looked on it on whoscored before and martial has 1 more in quite a lot more minutes, so I think so not 100% sure. There was a stage Rooney was bagging for fun last season, he was saving us when martial was hugely out of form. We have to expect that to happen again this season, martial will have poor patches due to age, we need as many players ready to step us as we can get.
He wasn't bagging for fun, it happened in the space of a few weeks. It was a purple patch and that is not enough to have and expectations all we can have is hope and based on what we see there isn't much to hope for given the decline.
 
I agree completely and I'm not giving Rooney the credit for our improved attacking play once Mkhitaryan and Rashford came on.

My points are:
1) Rooney looked better the wider he played
2) Mkhitaryan improved the level of all the players around him when he played through the middle.

Both those points tell me that Mkhitaryan should be the #10 instead of Rooney, and that if Rooney plays, he will play to his strenghts more and expose his weaknesses less as a winger. He shouldn't be in the #10 discussion at all because he's isn't a good #10.
100% agree!
 
Maybe that doesn't matter to you now because we have got maximum points but the time will come when we will play better teams over the course of the season and a game will need to be won by playing better than the opposition, which is how most games are won generally!


He wasn't bagging for fun, it happened in the space of a few weeks. It was a purple patch and that is not enough to have and expectations all we can have is hope and based on what we see there isn't much to hope for given the decline.

Rooney also contributes in big games. Not sure what the fuss is all about. I don't care if he doesn't have a berbatov touch.

It was over a month and it was when he started playing a blatantly different way, he even leaked a story about how he had stopped listening to LVG advice and just started playing his own game. Then he got injured and came back and was okay for the rest of the season. A decline doesn't have to be terrible, it really depends. Sometimes players adapt when they lose some of their features from aging, I think he could be a lampard type player, just running to the edge of the box and finishing from there.
 
It's just so annoying the way he keeps making important contributions to stop himself getting dropped. Why can't he just do the decent thing and tear up his contract and leave?
 
The game of football is deeper than stats. The question should be, does Rooney enable the team to perform at its maximum level? Maybe with Micki in the number 10 role we win that Hull game 4-0.

Rooney hasn't even been putting up acceptable numbers for a while. When was the last time he scored more than 20 goals? 5 years ago?
 
The game of football is deeper than stats. The question should be, does Rooney enable the team to perform at its maximum level? Maybe with Micki in the number 10 role we win that Hull game 4-0.

Rooney hasn't even been putting up acceptable numbers for a while. When was the last time he scored more than 20 goals? 5 years ago?
Maybe we'd have lost it 4-0.
 
Maybe that doesn't matter to you now because we have got maximum points but the time will come when we will play better teams over the course of the season and a game will need to be won by playing better than the opposition, which is how most games are won generally!


He wasn't bagging for fun, it happened in the space of a few weeks. It was a purple patch and that is not enough to have and expectations all we can have is hope and based on what we see there isn't much to hope for given the decline.

That time is last season, but hey.. Clean slate for everyone bar memphis
 
I think it speaks volumes that almost every "supporter" of Rooney on here agrees that he has declined and had a bad season last year but every hater thinks he is completely finished. Shows the objectivity.

:lol: Embarrassing. So everyone that agrees with you is sensible and reasonable while those who hold a different opinion are 'haters' and just simply wrong. Basically people are only objective when they have the same view as you? I'll keep that in mind.
 
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