.. no one even said the assist verified him but that it is a reminder of the player he is. We're just going in circles now. The FA cup game wasn't even that long ago in terms of United games. The Assist as far as I'm concerned was world class so I don't think there's any point arguing it.
10
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 39
- Goals
- 8
- Assists
- 10
- Yellow cards
- 8
- Status
.. no one even said the assist verified him but that it is a reminder of the player he is. We're just going in circles now. The FA cup game wasn't even that long ago in terms of United games. The Assist as far as I'm concerned was world class so I don't think there's any point arguing it.
Rooney has showed this season a highlight reel just in terms of contributions of beating a man, putting a goal on an absolute plate couldn't be missed if rashford tried , being in the right place to score his goal and constant finding ibra in the penalty box, a player who thrives on getting the ball there.
I would argue if he carries on doing this all season (he might not, if so then the criticism will be valid) he might be a bit of a useful player to have around? These skills are usually helpful right?
I sortof agree with you but this is where Rooney is a special case. General play. Players who put out good numbers for elite clubs tend to have a very high level of passing, control, etc.
I think Fabregas (5 goals, 7 assists often playing deep) was pretty unanimously lambasted for his performance level last season. That assist number is decent, goals isn't too bad depending on how often he was a CM or AM. But he was heavily criticised because he was terrible off the ball and gave away possession in easy areas. It harmed the team, and having an unexcpetional but solid player in his position might have been better. The "lowlights" vs Spurs is how his season will be remembered, atleast by me.
With Rooney it is magnified because he is our central playmaker (now maybe it's Pogba?). For 2 years he was played through months of poor form with a good month in the middle, much of the time in a crucial position as ST or AM. All the while we had the option to change to a formation that had shown promise (4-3-3), or maybe give Mata or Herrera an extended spell at AM to try and see if that works better. But Rooney continued to play, with occasional highlights and many 50-50 balls lost, headers not contested, passes missed, and (something you can't count) opportunities for a quick penetrating pass ignored in favour of turning 270 degrees and finding the RB/RW. It's why the frustration with him is so high here and why every time he does one of those things (he minimised them v Southampton but every other game there was tons of it), there is a flood of sometimes irrational criticism.
Ofcourse, if you produce Ronaldo-like numbers no-one except maybe Pep would argue that you should be dropped for general play, but that's not the case here.
I get what you are saying, I really do. However, we are under a new manager, we are four matches in and he has been good in two okay in one and bad in another, which would put him in the higher bracket for our players outside of the defence. People seem willing to give other players a chance, opinions have changed on Valencia, Fellaini and some people are even keen to see how Depay will operate under Mourinho. However nobody seems to be willing to give Rooney the benefit of the doubt.
Up until Christmas last season there is absolutely no contesting, Rooney was atrocious, 100% he should have been dropped but he couldn't be due to poor squad planning by LVG, we had far too many gaps in the team so that even if we did want to drop him (which lvg never would due to his captain policy) we couldn't have, we hadn't even talked about Rashford at this point, rooney was our only number 9.
This season Rooney is a number 10, if he doesn't perform Mata, Mkhi, can come in as immediate replacements or we could tweak the formation to give Pogba licence or to play a front two of rashford and zlatan. If rooney doesn't play well he will be dropped, however he has been playing alright-well so far, I just think he should be given the benefit of the doubt.
People say he has been poor for x amount of time blah blah, Fellaini was poor pretty much for the first three years of his united career with the exception of the FA cup last season. Ashley young was poor up until lvg came in. Look how much terry had dropped off before mourinho returned to Chelsea even. We have a new manager Rooney should be judged on what he is doing now not how he was playing this time last season as it is wholly irrelevant.
I'm not saying he's shite. I'm just saying Pogba against Soton over the 90 minutes was better than anything I can remember from him since the start of the 11-12 season. Black Adder thinks that's ridiculous, so I'm asking him for examples.
Rooney has had good and even great games in the last five years, but in my opinion there's been too few of them for a player of his reputation and standing within the squad, but I haven't seen him deliver a 90 minute master class like Pogba did against Southampton. I'd rather have 11 players playing their roles well for 90 minutes than carrying a passenger for 90 minutes in the hope that he'll pop up with a goal or assist like we did with Rooney against Leicester and Bournemouth especially.
He literally scored a hattrick last season from about 3 chances.
Against Brugge. Memphis looked like a world beater against them.
Memphis was a 90 minute menace against Midtjylland, yet you didn't find many people using that as an example of why he should have played every game, because he was shit for most of the others. That applied to Rooney last season as well.
What a fecking wum you're but let's give it a go.
Pobga looked like best player on the field against Southampton? He was among better perfomers, but not best, Ibra had better match than him, and Fellaini was very good as well.
You're serious about Rooney not playing good match in last 5 years apart from that 2 matches you mentioned? Either you have very selective memory or just wumming on purpose, and think it's the latter.
Don't remember him scoring brace in important win against City away, scoring brace and setting up RVPs winning goal against Reading, overturning 0:1 deficit into 2:1 win with goals against Southampton, scoring Uniteds only goal in important win against Fulham away, saving United point against Tottenham away with 2 goals, scoring 2 goals against West Ham (1 from half way line). Playing in midfield against Newcastle and scoring 2 goals as well as assiting RVP goal in 3:0 win, asissting 1 goal and scoring screamer against Hull away helping turning deficit 0:2 into 3:2 win, leading the line against Tottenham and scoring beautiful solo goal.
Neither of this matches are comparable with Pogba dispays against Southampton? Oh you've set up 5 years frame with that ridicolous post of yours so please don't even try to moan about it. Must be really sad being such a narrow minded United supporter who would rather see Rooney fail and discredit him as much as possible than to admit you were wrong. This is my last reply to your pathetic attempts at wumming.
Southampton aren't exactly heavy hitters either, especially with the players they have lost. Playing well is playing well.
Would love to see how people were defending his performances first half of season. Must have been a fun read
You're twisting my words and knocking down strawmen, but whatever.
What a fecking wum you're but let's give it a go.
Pobga looked like best player on the field against Southampton? He was among better perfomers, but not best, Ibra had better match than him, and Fellaini was very good as well.
You're serious about Rooney not playing good match in last 5 years apart from that 2 matches you mentioned? Either you have very selective memory or just wumming on purpose, and think it's the latter.
Don't remember him scoring brace in important win against City away, scoring brace and setting up RVPs winning goal against Reading, overturning 0:1 deficit into 2:1 win with goals against Southampton, scoring Uniteds only goal in important win against Fulham away, saving United point against Tottenham away with 2 goals, scoring 2 goals against West Ham (1 from half way line). Playing in midfield against Newcastle and scoring 2 goals as well as assiting RVP goal in 3:0 win, asissting 1 goal and scoring screamer against Hull away helping turning deficit 0:2 into 3:2 win, leading the line against Tottenham and scoring beautiful solo goal.
Neither of this matches are comparable with Pogba dispays against Southampton? Oh you've set up 5 years frame with that ridicolous post of yours so please don't even try to moan about it. Must be really sad being such a narrow minded United supporter who would rather see Rooney fail and discredit him as much as possible than to admit you were wrong. This is my last reply to your pathetic attempts at wumming.
1) Pogba was the best player over the course of the 90 minutes of the match. He was always looking to get involved and when he did he positively influenced the game almost every time. The notable exception being that very first touch. Zlatan scored two goals, but didn't contribute as much to our play as Pogba, or Valencia for that matter even if he was very good in that game. Scoring goals and getting assists doesn't automatically mean you're the best player on the field. Strikers like Inzaghi scored goals, but that type of player doesn't have a place in the modern game where a forward is expected to do more, also when he isn't scoring. Not that I'm comparing Ibra to Inzaghi in any way. Another example: Ronaldo's numbers have been far more impressive than Messi's in recent years, yet Messi is seen as the superior player by most football fans because Messi adds more to his team also when the team isn't scoring goals.
2) I didn't say Rooney hasn't had a good game at all in the last five years. He clearly has, some great ones even, even if there's not enough of them to justify his salary, his reputation, the constant praise in the media or his standing in the team. What I'm saying is Rooney hasn't delivered a game where his involvements were on a consistently high level throughout like Pogba's against Southampton.
Is it so preposterous to suggest that a player who plays his role as excellently as Pogba did against Southampton is preferrable to a player who drifts in and out of games and then maybe pops up with a goal or assist? If you put 11 players on a field and they all played their part as well as Pogba played his against Southampton they would annihilate a team of Rooney equivalents 100 times out of a 100.
3) What you've done is list a bunch of games that Rooney scored in. That's great. He scored against Bournemouth too and was shit in that game.
Look at this. Cutting out the four minutes of pre-game stuff at the start and a couple of minutes of replays and post-match handshakes it's ten whole minutes of separate moments where Pogba apart from a couple of wayward passes and stray shots is just doing everything in that midfield without putting a foot wrong. Winning the ball, drawing in opponents, fending them off, opening up space and moving the ball forward with probing passes or marauding runs. If this was the NFL, imagine how ridiculously good his "yards gained" statistics would have been in that game. Switched on for 90 minutes, lifting the overall performance of the team enormously throughout the game and not giving Southampton a moment's rest. Has Rooney played a game like that in the last five years? Telling me he scored from half way once doesn't really prove a point either way.
Manchester United vs Newcastle 3:1, 2 goals from midfield and assist. Played brilliant on the night, find yourself matchday thread and read what posters though about that performances, you fecking wum.
These harsh critics of Rooney are starting to sound a bit like "can Messi do it on a cold night at the Britannica?"
Pogba's overall game against Southampton was better.
Don't let it get to you and no need to be harsh. Yes, I am with you that some posters have this ridiculous view on Rooney and judge him differently but that's just their opinion I guess. What's true is that experts and managers still believe in Rooney unless you buy conspiracy theories such as him buying them all out.
If the CAF had to decide everything we'd have a front line of Welback and Pedro right now.
Just going through this thread makes me wonder who feels more hard done by: Rooney-haters when they watch our team play ineffectively due to his inclusion in the team, or Rooney-apologists when they see all the stuff posted here.
BTW: Rashford was NOT the intended recipient of that pass.
BTW: Rashford was NOT the intended recipient of that pass.
Rooney in that 8-2 and the subsequent week where he scored another hattrick was exceptional. Pogba vs Southampton won't come close to it. That was 5 years ago though
He was excellent in the Leverkusen game at OT in 2013. I was there, he had that stupid headband thing on. Great night that was, sat the keeper and slammed one at the near post from memory. If my memory recalls correctly he had a serious footrace with Valencia when he scored on the right. That is literally off the top of my head, I am sure he's had great games between then and now.
I don't know why anyone wouldn't be ecstatic with his contributions in our great start this season.
Especially when you consider the start to last season and to where he is now, his form has trended upwards quite nicely and this season looks on the curve to be a profitable one. Still don't have a clue why Van Gaal went into last season with a striker who's never been a hold up number nine thriving on no touches and positional discipline. I mean, that is more the question that comes to my mind regardless of how poor Rooney was in the role. The man himself kept insisting the team and Rooney were doing exactly what he wanted them to do when we were scoring and creating f all in first halfs. Fair to be pointing the finger at him as a bit of a loon and chalk off the last two season as a lost cause for every player I think. Compounded by the upward trend of form under Jose this season, from everybody.
I don't know why anyone wouldn't be ecstatic with his contributions in our great start this season.
Especially when you consider the start to last season and to where he is now, his form has trended upwards quite nicely and this season looks on the curve to be a profitable one. Still don't have a clue why Van Gaal went into last season with a striker who's never been a hold up number nine thriving on no touches and positional discipline. I mean, that is more the question that comes to my mind regardless of how poor Rooney was in the role. The man himself kept insisting the team and Rooney were doing exactly what he wanted them to do when we were scoring and creating f all in first halfs. Fair to be pointing the finger at him as a bit of a loon and chalk off the last two season as a lost cause for every player I think. Compounded by the upward trend of form under Jose this season, from everybody.
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"Ecstatic with his contribution"?
Jeez, I dread to think how much you would have loved a peak Scholes/Keane et Al.
Your bar must be bellydancer low.
Having different opinion is one thing, trying to wum people is something completely different. If Pogba had some extraordinary display againt Southamtpon I would gladly accept his view, but to claim he was better in mentioned match than Rooney against Newcastle with direct involvement in all 3 goals and brilliant (very rare) all around performance, well that's just idiotic no matter how hard it may sound.
He's trying to discredit almost all Rooneys displays in last 5 years bar 2 which is nothing more than blind hatred for the player Rooney has become. He's declined massively but that doesn't takr away his previous accomplishments, and wum who's smart as about his username is trying to do just exactly that.
There is no argument to be had in that case. Already people have been rewriting Rooney's history on here. From never having good technical ability to being shit for the past 5-6 years. There's no reasoning with any of that. Think about it, it has come to the point where a player produces a match winning assist but is questioned for it.
One of the posters above literally mentioned some cross from the La liga by an average player as a point in downplaying that assist. There is just no reasoning with logic like that.
6:55 of that video @Red Stone posted.
Are we still using this excuse? It was against an under strengthened Brugge side, jheez!
If you're fed up or exasperated by the Rooney debate why keep fuelling it?
You've just randomly posted a video of a performance from three years ago. Not in response to anyone, not too add to an ongoing debate. So why? You know it's going to trigger a whole new debate about that performance and Rooney in general.
The thread wouldn't be that busy right now if you and a few others weren't creating debate by being overly defensive.
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Yeah stop making people post in the thread shamans.
That's a shit video, 6 minutes fulls of nothing, it's not even full 6 minutes of Rooney. It's filled with close up of his blue eyes, and time wasting video of nothing
Any other player and you can get 1hour of compilations like that.
I raise you this
I loved Keane and Scholes, Keane is easily by far and away my favorite all time player - let alone United player. But that is not the overarching point that I am trying to make here though.
Hear me out, the level that Rooney was at prior to his form pickup through the back end of last season (providing that he was actually at such a poor level and it wasn't fan hyperbole, I say that because I don't personally believe he was actually that poor last year for a few reasons, but I don't really expect anyone to agree nor really care to debate that position because it is my own personal opinion. It factors into the general tone of this thread though), the performances he's putting in now must be of a good to decent standard? No? Considering where he was at? If he was that poor and "finished" at the start of last season, then where in the quantifiable scale do these performances plot? Surely pretty high in the grand scheme of things?
Actual contributions to our team performance. (I think we can dismiss the petty and sad 35 second "lowlight" clips where he touches the ball poorly 4 times out of 50 and then dozens and dozens of "status-quo" posts that it somehow deems it to universally be a "summation of his shocking performance") Isn't that what is at least the minimum that we as fans want to see? Or should I say, "allow themselves to see"?
I share the sentiment that @shamans mentioned earlier. We're 3/3, we're looking quite solid in both defense and attack and there generally looks to be a hint of something really special brewing in not only the first four attackers that start but our options to change things up off the bench. (Which as Jose points out, shock horror.. Rooney is not immuned from.)
I think that is why all of the attention seeking "im the biggest Rooney is shite'er here and you better think like I do or I'll spit a whole bunch of nonsense and derail the thread because pat me on the back, lads! How shite is Rooney!!!!" nonsense is so grating to me.
There is something genuine here to be positive about for what is probably at least a season or maybe even two surrounding our attack with Rooney in it. I genuinely think it is a bit disappointing that people aren't being allowed to share that optimism and create sensible and general discussion because of about 15 or 20 people who want attention and want to derail the thread constantly with nonsense that devolves into circular arguments surrounding a fans personal position and how they support the team.
Except the Bournemouth clip is two minutes long and he had poor to mediocre involvements about 15 times in total, in a game where WhoScored has him involved in 26 separate runs of play with anything from one to four touches per play. In other words, more than half of his involvements were mediocre or worse.
At what point does it go from "lowlight clips are petty and sad" to "well, I guess he was actually pretty shit in that game"?
You people are exactly the same in your exaggerations and entrenched positions, your assumptions and disingenuousness. It's like arguing with Glaston about Spurs, yet you all - wilfully - fail to acknowledge this, and pose as the voices of reason. You know very well that posts like the one you invented are not typical of the people who are concerned with Rooney's impact on United's future, but you invent them anyway; you don't win a debate or change minds with that tactic, so the accusations of preaching to the converted are ironic to say the least.
Myth, him and RVP never played well as a pair, even RVP publicly said as much with the moving in my space comment.
Valencia has had many such performances but people still think he has been shit for 3 years.
The main difference between Rooney in that Arsenal video and Rooney now is the enormous difference in intensity in his game. There he was throwing himself about and working hard off the ball. He looks like a completely different player. It's sad how far he's fallen in less than two years.
@Perrick Dubois People don't want attention, we just want somebody starting who's more dangerous in attack than Rooney, it's quite simple. LVG realised Rooney as a striker or 10 was finished, so shifted him back to midfield where he could hide. Mourinho obviously think's he's got the Midas touch, we will have to wait and see.
It just really annoys me that Mkhi and Rashford, who in my eyes are better players are being wasted on the bench. We look so much more dynamic with them in the team.
It just really annoys me that Mkhi and Rashford, who in my eyes are better players are being wasted on the bench. We look so much more dynamic with them in the team.
A load of baloney Steve and you know it, pal. You are just playing to the gallery yourself.
I don't see the problem with this at all, clearly echoing the thoughts of most United fans!
And assists and goals are not a good measure of who is "more dangerous in attack"? This is why you lot have holes in your argument.
You state that because people believe Rooney's performances were poor last year, we should suddenly regard any improvement as a 'good to decent standard'. Not sure how that makes sense, a player can be poor, slightly improve (which is debatable IMO) and still be poor or decent at best. Even if we accept he has been average/decent, that shouldn't be sufficient to keep your place when you're playing for Manchester United and there are players like Myhitaryan sitting on the bench.
His contributions ie. goals and assists do indeed look good on paper but watching the actual matches I believe it is clear that they do not outweigh the negatives he brings to the team's performances. The goal against Bournemouth was a relatively simple finish and I would be disappointed if any of our attacking players were to miss such an opportunity. The goal against Southampton came about mainly down to Ibrahimovic's strength in the air more than any exceptional play on Rooney's part. Obviously the goal against Hull can be attributed to Rooney's brilliant play; I can't dispute that.
We do indeed look solid in attack and defence. I, and other posters obviously believe we can look even better and would like to see the side without Rooney for a couple of games at least to see if that is actually true.
You seem unable to accept any criticism of Rooney which is rather strange in a thread created solely to discuss his performances and you yourself seem unwilling to accept any/or little criticism of him. Seems a bit one sided and perhaps you should create a thread solely for the purpose of praising him. I don't imagine it will be particularly active but might suit your needs a bit more.
Not always. Do Iniesta's stats indicate a world class attacking player?
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