[ottosec]

He was crap as usual, that first half was hilarious, change the color of his kit and you'd think he played as a DM for Hull.

Obviously he made the goal, but the question is: would we have failed to score in the first 90 minutes if somebody that actually knows how to play football was playing instead of him from the start?

I am convinced that he has some clause in his contract where he must play every game, there is no other explanation. He's been playing like a pub player in 75% of the games he played in the last 2 years, yet he starts every game. And it's not that he doesn't do anything, he can't even do simple things like controlling the ball.

 

[clarkydaz]

Let's keep the argument about Rooney's usefulness to the team aside for now, that wasn't my point anyway and this is my last post for the day because I'm still a newbie and my count is up.

My point is Rooney gets slated on here way more than any other player, even if that player has played worse or equally bad. The 'Wayne Rooney Performances' thread is always on the front page on the Cafe, even when he's had a decent game, there are people laying into him. The intensity of the scrutiny for Rooney is not consistent with that of other players.

And some of the revisionism I've seen in this thread and others recently is amazing. There are people claiming here he was technically never world class. I don't see many people bringing up his salary now, something which was used to beat him up with week in week out. When it was confirmed we signed Mourinho and some were upset about his character, people started bringing up how Ferguson was never a saint and how some of the things he did were just as bad (wow), after United fans spent years calling Mourinho a c*** and what not right up till the Eva C. incident. When some people were upset that Mourinho is going to play negative football, people started saying Fergie did it often too! More people now care about winning and getting the 3 points more than the style, something we were dying for under LVG, and yet they overlook Rooney, who comes up with a decisive contribution that gives them just what they asked. The revisionism largely looks very RAWK-esque.

And the hypotheticals are amazing too - like "if Rooney hadn't played the entire 90 mins, we would have scored much more". Seriously? As long as the players that are selected deliver, there is no reason to change them. That's how a squad works, the more it plays together, the better it works. And who knows if not playing Rooney would have worked? FFS It's been 3 games into the season and nothing warrants him being dropped.

Nobody is saying anybody here doesn't have the best interest of the club at heart. But the intense scrutiny that Rooney receives seems more like hate and feels really putrid.

Rooney isn't treated as other squad players who are rotated/dropped when required or deserved, and is bumped around the pitch to keep him involved. He is the supposed talisman, nobody gives a shit how much players earn, shag their brothers wives etc if they are doing the biz on the pitch. Its not just on RedCafe, any social media outlet has the same theme when people bring the current Rooney situation up

 

[Vilev]

From memory, Mata also had to deal with a much more crowded penalty area and there were no runners, everyone was waiting and marked.

Does not matter, he could not pick the man out. And there were options, he dribbled well enough, but his final ball was poor.

You were talking about Ibra and Martial apparently missing chances, and Rooney missed the best chance. From memory, Mata also had to deal with a much more crowded penalty area and there were no runners, everyone was waiting and marked.

Was not really a best chance that. It was a deflection, it was off him, Rooney needed to adjust stretch, could he have done better? Sure, but to compare that chance with the one Rooney created for Rashford is rather stupid. Rooney created much better chance. If Mata managed to find Rooney properly, with the pass to his feet, not via deflection than Rooney would have had better chance to bury that one.
But that all does not really matter, Rooney managed to make a goal. Does not matter from 2-nd attempt or his 5-th. Why couldn't Micky, Mata, Martial or Zlatan make one?

 

[Vilev]

with good moments

Those good moments win you games, which is the most important thing in football.

 

[Attila]

Those good moments win you games, which is the most important thing in football.

Agreed but it's really annoying watching him. The guy is only 30 years old but is so dodgy in normal play

I hope its just his normal take a while to get into form stuff....

 

[Amadaeus]

That 30 secs was in the 94 minutes. Why does it matter if it won't always happen? we are talking about his performance in that game, how on earth would a stat take that into account

Because that assist he made in that 30 secs timeframe was the best thing he did the entire game. If he had not made that assist, I am sure that his performance will rarely get noted even from the avid Rooney fans on here.

 

[SteveJ]

You used to be funny, now seem bitter for some reason

What's genuinely funny is how I only hear that from people who defend Rooney.

 

[LouisDanGaal]

Because that assist he made in that 30 secs timeframe was the best thing he did the entire game. If he had not made that assist, I am sure that his performance will rarely get noted even from the avid Rooney fans on here.

The performance was good, 4 chances created prior to that. Then he did that, he did it during the game, he won us the game, its the most important thing anyone did during the game. If you remove the best 30 seconds of play from any forwards game they will suddenly look a lot more average. Ruud would look downright awful, if you removed the seconds he was kicking it in the goal from the equation. You're trying to move the goal posts in a ludicrous way.

 

[LouisDanGaal]

He was crap as usual, that first half was hilarious, change the color of his kit and you'd think he played as a DM for Hull.

Obviously he made the goal, but the question is: would we have failed to score in the first 90 minutes if somebody that actually knows how to play football was playing instead of him from the start?

I am convinced that he has some clause in his contract where he must play every game, there is no other explanation. He's been playing like a pub player in 75% of the games he played in the last 2 years, yet he starts every game. And it's not that he doesn't do anything, he can't even do simple things like controlling the ball.

Yeah he probably has a clause in his contract saying if he wins us the game then he has to stay in the team. Fingers crossed he's out after the derby.

 

[SteveJ]

Meanwhile, here's some stuff from Wayne & José:

José Mourinho has revived United’s winning mentality, says Wayne Rooney

Wayne Rooney says José Mourinho has already created a winning mentality at Manchester United to boost the confidence of a team who have lacked such belief in recent years.

Mourinho’s United side secured their third successive victory of the new Premier League season at Hull City on Saturday evening – Marcus Rashford scoring an injury-time winner – and go into the international break joint top of the fledgling table.

The ill feeling that was evident around Old Trafford during much of Louis van Gaal’s reign as manager appears to have lifted before the derby against Manchester City on 10 September. Rooney, who created Rashford’s late goal with a fine run and pass from the byline, praised the impact that Mourinho had made in such a short space of time and said it had been crucial for United to start the season well after their struggles in the years since Sir Alex Ferguson’s retirement.

“You look at the years when José won the title at Chelsea, they always started well, but I think the way it’s been for us the last two or three seasons, it was important for us as a team,” Rooney said. “José has brought that experience in, that winning mentality again. That’s showing in the players and it’s maybe lacked over the last couple of years.

“It’s early but you want to try to build momentum and especially going into the international break. To go there with three wins is important and with the next game being Man City it was a big win for us, even though it’s so early in the season. We know whatever happens against City isn’t going to define the season but it’s always nice to go into that break with the three wins.

“It’s a game players, staff, media, fans, everyone will be looking forward to. It’s a Manchester derby but also with José and Pep Guardiola at Man City. It’s exciting for everyone and exciting to play in.”

Rooney’s position in the United team has come under question this season. The 30-year-old had not enjoyed the best of games at Hull before producing a telling piece of play in the dying moments to set up Rashford for a tap-in.

Mourinho praised the England captain’s display, insisting Rooney is not immune to being substituted but that his presence on the pitch until injury time was a tactical decision. “I can take him out. It’s no problem for me to take him out, no problem for him to be out,” he said.

“But I was just reading the game and feeling that playing with the two strikers, Marcus and Zlatan [Ibrahimovic], I needed [Henrikh] Mkhitaryan and Rooney just inside because the full-backs were the ones playing really wide on the touchline.

“I didn’t need wingers because at this moment the wingers were [Antonio] Valencia and Luke Shaw, so instead of wingers I needed people to play inside in that position and I know that he’s the guy with the vision for an assist and a feeling for the ball, and that he could perfectly be important, like he was.”

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...o-revived-manchester-united-winning-mentality

 

[Black Adder]

What's genuinely funny is how I only hear that from people who defend Rooney.

I've always thought you were better and more objective poster than the rest of those who won't accept anything good from Rooney, that's only reason and find it strange to see you being such a bitter when Rooney is in question.

 

[wr8_utd]

Dispossesed three times in his own half in 25 seconds:

streamable.com/f70p

He's so god awful on the ball when under any kind of pressure. When we come up against a better side then Hull it's going to get really ugly.

I've been hearing this post every match for the last half year and I'm still waiting for it to get ugly. In our biggest game of the last half year, the FA Cup final, he's the reason we won it. But alas, it's just Palace and they're rubbish so it doesn't count.

 

[Attila]

I've always thought you were better and more objective poster than the rest of those who won't accept anything good from Rooney, that's only reason and find it strange to see you being such a bitter when Rooney is in question.

@SteveJ seems to be only interested in the benefit of our team. The only one who comes across as bitter is you

 

[Black Adder]

@SteveJ seems to be only interested in the benefit of our team. The only one who comes across as bitter is you

Find my posts about Rooney, I'm not blind, he's weakest link in the first eleven and would rather see him coming from the bench than starting in the first eleven, just don't see why all the abuse towards him even when he contributes to the team?

If that makes me lesser of supporter than be it, we can't all be t0p reds aren't we

 

[PepsiCola]

I've been hearing this post every match for the last half year and I'm still waiting for it to get ugly. In our biggest game of the last half year, the FA Cup final, he's the reason we won it. But alas, it's just Palace and they're rubbish so it doesn't count.

Imagine he helped us win a league game in the first half of the season, or contribute a single point. We could have the FA cup AND CL football.

 

[LouisDanGaal]

Imagine he helped us win a league game in the first half of the season, or contribute a single point. We could have the FA cup AND CL football.

Everyone wanted him dropped then, including me and i'm one of the most pro rooney posters on here. Just when players are winning us games like he is now I'd rather they stay in the team and players who are currently offering nothing like mata and martial should make way until they contribute.

Mikhi and Rash need to be in the team and Rooney is miles ahead of mata and martial currently, even though Martial on his day is our best player.

 

[Black Adder]

All he did was make a joke at Rooneys expensive. No need to call him bitter and say he's not the objective and better poster u thought he was

He's probably funniest poster on Caf, but when it comes to Rooney seems like he's trying to hard to be funny, which isn't working, not for me anyway.

I didn't say he's not objective or good poster, just that he should be better than the likes of those who keep bitching about Rooney wheter he scores or assist, thought he was better than that.

You're not better than some Rooney defender, just it's SteveJ you're defending here. So in a weird way SteveJ has just become Cafs Rooney, I'm sure he'll be very much happy about it

 

[Attila]

He's probably funniest poster on Caf, but when it comes to Rooney seems like he's trying to hard to be funny, which isn't working, not for me anyway.

I didn't say he's not objective or good poster, just that he should be better than the likes of those who keep bitching about Rooney wheter he scores or assist, thought he was better than that.

You're not better than some Rooney defender, just it's SteveJ you're defending here. So in a weird way SteveJ has just become Cafs Rooney, I'm sure he'll be very much happy about it

Well I'm sure a lot of people still enjoy @SteveJ Rooney jokes. Don't be so sensitive it's not Steve's fault Rooney has shit games and loose touches

 

[PepsiCola]

Everyone wanted him dropped then, including me and i'm one of the most pro rooney posters on here. Just when players are winning us games like he is now I'd rather they stay in the team and players who are currently offering nothing like mata and martial should make way until they contribute.

Mikhi and Rash need to be in the team and Rooney is miles ahead of mata and martial currently, even though Martial on his day is our best player.

At the moment, I agree Rooney should be in the side ahead of Martial who has been poor. Rooneys productivity can not be contested.

But the guy has been piss poor over 90 minutes. Mata, last season, came under scrutiny for being 'cowardly' and 'weak' over 90 minutes and masking it with a goal and assist. Rooney, at the moment, is performing much worse over a 90 minute game. The only difference yesterday between Mata and Rooney was that Rooney's nice play resulted in the ball falling to Rashford. Mata's play landed to Rooney. Mata over 90 minutes is performing at a higher level. Ive lost count of the number of times we see nice interplay up top only for the ball to come to Rooney who would take a poor touch, fail to see a good pass and play the ball backwards or to Valencia.

At the moment, calling Rooney miles ahead of Mata is a great exaggeration. I'd argue our best front 4 would be Ibra, Mata, Mkhi and Rashford until Martial gains some form. Then rotate as fit.

If there comes a time where Rooneys poor form over 90 minute continue yet his productivity drop, I hope his defenders are fairly critical then.

 

[Black Adder]

Well I'm sure a lot of people still enjoy @SteveJ Rooney jokes. Don't be so sensitive it's not Steve's fault Rooney has shit games and loose touches

Well that's why I wrote it isn't working for me, I can only speak for myself, not the rest of the forum.
I'm sorry for upsetting you so much with my opinion about RooneyJ, hope you'll find forgivness in your heart and be better poster than I am! Cheers from Croatia!

 

[LouisDanGaal]

At the moment, I agree Rooney should be in the side ahead of Martial who has been poor. Rooneys productivity can not be contested.

But the guy has been piss poor over 90 minutes. Mata, last season, came under scrutiny for being 'cowardly' and 'weak' over 90 minutes and masking it with a goal and assist. Rooney, at the moment, is performing much worse over a 90 minute game. The only difference yesterday between Mata and Rooney was that Rooney's nice play resulted in the ball falling to Rashford. Mata's play landed to Rooney. Mata over 90 minutes is performing at a higher level. Ive lost count of the number of times we see nice interplay up top only for the ball to come to Rooney who would take a poor touch, fail to see a good pass and play the ball backwards or to Valencia.

At the moment, calling Rooney miles ahead of Mata is a great exaggeration. I'd argue our best front 4 would be Ibra, Mata, Mkhi and Rashford until Martial gains some form. Then rotate as fit.

If there comes a time where Rooneys poor form over 90 minute continue yet his productivity drop, I hope his defenders are fairly critical then.

Its not, because the only reason forwards are on the pitch is end product, or at the very least hints at it, like you can see with mkhi. Mata created a half chance. Rooney literally put it on a plate and created several other chances. If Rooney goes on a stretch of games playing poorly and contributing nothing I would want him out of the team immediately, but people are minutely analysing every little thing he does, he lost the ball significantly less than Pogba and Zlatan who really were poor. Rooney yesterday was actually our best player from the starting attacking players.

 

[Bogga]

The thing about Rooney that keeps annoying me is his "ability" to touch the ball one time to many, which makes him lose the ball. It was one time during the hull game where he did it like three times in two minutes. I'm not saying he's worthless... but his lack of pace and him losing the ball all the time is seriously annoying. Mata also loses the ball every now and then when he's challenged, but no way near as often as Rooney.

Edit... haha

 

[LouisDanGaal]

The thing about Rooney that keeps annoying me is his "ability" to touch the ball one time to many, which makes him lose the ball. It was one time during the hull game where he did it like three times in two minutes. I'm not saying he's worthless... but his lack of pace and him losing the ball all the time is seriously annoying. Mata also loses the ball every now and then when he's challenged, but no way near as often as Rooney.

I can't be the only one who's seen this happening all the time?

Yeah you're the only one who's spotted that he has a bad touch. If you scroll through the last 70 pages nobody else has noticed.

Good spot.

 

[Bogga]

Yeah you're the only one who's spotted that he has a bad touch. If you scroll through the last 70 pages nobody else has noticed.

Good spot.

It was more a saying for a conversation opener than a "haven't you seen"

I'll edit it out before I get called Mr.Obvious

 

[LouisDanGaal]

It was more a saying for a conversation opener than a "haven't you seen"

I'll edit it out before I get called Mr.Obvious

Ha, fair enough. His touch has been shot for years but if he keeps creating goals and not costing us them the other end through it then who cares.

 

[Sky1981]

Its not, because the only reason forwards are on the pitch is end product, or at the very least hints at it, like you can see with mkhi. Mata created a half chance. Rooney literally put it on a plate and created several other chances. If Rooney goes on a stretch of games playing poorly and contributing nothing I would want him out of the team immediately, but people are minutely analysing every little thing he does, he lost the ball significantly less than Pogba and Zlatan who really were poor. Rooney yesterday was actually our best player from the starting attacking players.

Good lord...

No wonder we get 5th last year. This is the best united have to offer

 

[SteveJ]

Cheers, Attila.

Black Adder: I'm not actually bitter, mate - I am, though, exasperated...more so with some on here who defend Rooney than with Rooney himself. And even that depends on how they choose to defend him than with the (quite reasonable & understandable) defence itself; this is why I often come across as more sarcastic and bitter than humorous and placid.

 

[shamans]

One thing that bothers me sometimes is how mature he has become. He needs to be an arrogant cnunt that would get under the oppositions skin again. More replied like "I have nothing to prove" is what I wanna see tbh.

To summarize how I feel: He had a good game and it was a superb assist. Fully deserves his place in the team right now. If nothing else, he deserves to start ahead of Martial or Mata

 

[OohAahMartial]

Who got the assist of the assist? It was a lovely ball behind the backline for him to run on to. Pogba?

 

[Burrow]

100% agree with @SteveJ to be honest. The only thing that is more infuriating than watching Rooney slow down our attack for every single game is watching people defend him in this thread as if he is playing great/good/decent/at an acceptable level.

 

[shamans]

100% agree with @SteveJ to be honest. The only thing that is more infuriating than watching Rooney slow down our attack for every single game is watching people defend him in this thread as if he is playing great/good/decent/at an acceptable level.

Oh please. I really don't understand this. Suppose all of us "defenders" (and I am one of them even though I wanted Mikhi to start ahead of him before this game) are so wrong why should it bother others? If anything having unwarranted support for one of our players is better than undeserved criticism.

Most sensible posters on here are tired of the constant mindless Rooney bashing. There is a proper argument you can make as to why he shouldn't be in the starting eleven but those that criticize him for every instance he loses possession make the voice of even the normal critiques sound low.

 

[clarkydaz]

Rooney’s position in the United team has come under question this season. The 30-year-old had not enjoyed the best of games at Hull before producing a telling piece of play in the dying moments to set up Rashford for a tap-in.

Mourinho praised the England captain’s display, insisting Rooney is not immune to being substituted but that his presence on the pitch until injury time was a tactical decision. “I can take him out. It’s no problem for me to take him out, no problem for him to be out,” he said.

“But I was just reading the game and feeling that playing with the two strikers, Marcus and Zlatan [Ibrahimovic], I needed [Henrikh] Mkhitaryan and Rooney just inside because the full-backs were the ones playing really wide on the touchline.

“I didn’t need wingers because at this moment the wingers were [Antonio] Valencia and Luke Shaw, so instead of wingers I needed people to play inside in that position and I know that he’s the guy with the vision for an assist and a feeling for the ball, and that he could perfectly be important, like he was.”

that's an interesting insight. Jose himself concedes he wasn't playing great, and had no problem subbing him several times already. Looks like he was left on because we were so dominant so could afford to keep attackers on.

 

[Perrick Dubois]

You are all genuinely embarrassing, it makes me cringe reading through this thread up until the assist. That is why Rooney is in the team. More importantly, Rashford is the man.

It is properly weird, some of the arguments in here are Cirque Du Soleil level acrobatics to stretch reality to suit their agenda.

 

[Black Adder]

Cheers, Attila.

Black Adder: I'm not actually bitter, mate - I am, though, exasperated...more so with some on here who defend Rooney than with Rooney himself. And even that depends on how they choose to defend him than with the (quite reasonable & understandable) defence itself; this is why I often come across as more sarcastic and bitter than humorous and placid.

But your're ok with those who throw insults at him, or wish he didn't score and assist goals which helps United win because that could mean him being left out in the next match?

 

[Adisa]

At least no captain's privileges. Mourinho will do what's best for the team and he will have no problem making tough decisions. I'm happy with that. Superb assist once again.

 

[Adisa]

But your're ok with those who throw insults at him, or wish he didn't score and assist goals which helps United win because that could mean him being left out in the next match?

I keep seeing this accusation thrown around. Where are the insults? Criticising his performance is not the same as insult. If there are insults, then there are very few.

 

[Art Vandelay]

I keep seeing this accusation thrown around. Where are the insults? Criticising his performance is not the same as insult. If there are insults, then there are very few.

Even if there are insults, why would you even care? He's a millionaire that you don't know.

 

[Adisa]

Even if there are insults, why would you even care? He's a millionaire that you don't know.

I don't think it's right insulting your own player. But the people defending Rooney have a habit of throwing accusations of hate, insults agenda etc in an attempt to discredit valid criticisms. When in a lot of cases, it's not true. I chant his name when I go to games even though I want him out of the team,as much as the next guy.

 

[Black Adder]

I keep seeing this accusation thrown around. Where are the insults? Criticising his performance is not the same as insult. If there are insults, then there are very few.

Calling him useless piece of shit is criticising his perfomance? Or wishing him getting injured so that he's left out of first eleven. Don't you read matchday threads?

Even if there are insults, why would you even care? He's a millionaire that you don't know.

Why should I read shit like that on this forum, we're not bluemoon or rawk, always thought Caf was better than that.

 

[Adisa]

Calling him useless piece of shit is criticising his perfomance? Or wishing him getting injured so that he's left out of first eleven. Don't you read matchday threads?



Why should I read shit like that on this forum, we're not bluemoon or rawk, always thought Caf was better than that.

If there are posts like this, there're very few.