Dude, you have been his number one fan on here for while, it's totally understandable if all you see is a 'run of the mill rusty performance' and other players giving the ball away. Like you said, people see what they want to see
10
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 39
- Goals
- 8
- Assists
- 10
- Yellow cards
- 8
- Status
Dude, you have been his number one fan on here for while, it's totally understandable if all you see is a 'run of the mill rusty performance' and other players giving the ball away. Like you said, people see what they want to see
In a bar in Wembley last night, the huge majority of about 40 of us were of the opinion that he should be at Everton or Sunderland this time next week - not in a vitriolic way, just an acceptance that his time has passed now. He really was dreadful yesterday - it is so sad to see an icon on a downward trend. I would love for him to prove me wrong though.
Carry on man. All he did was lose the ball and splutter, it was useless. Martial was poor, Ibra was isolated and dropping deep, Lingard deserves no real criticism, plenty of players looked rusty or naive, all of them really. But only Rooney looked like total shite.
He has the lowest rating out of everyone for that on here - there's a lot of Caftards, you can't totally discount that. Yes, the Caf is biased against him, but that's not everyone on here and that's due in a large part to how sub-par he's been for 3 or so seasons now and the effect that's had on our play.
But the point is for three years there have been far more downs than ups, yet he still starts, ever single week. All people are asking is that he is treated the same as other players and picked on form. That isn't an unreasonable expectation.
Carry on man. All he did was lose the ball and splutter, it was useless. Martial was poor, Ibra was isolated and dropping deep, Lingard deserves no real criticism, plenty of players looked rusty or naive, all of them really. But only Rooney looked like total shite.
He has the lowest rating out of everyone for that on here - there's a lot of Caftards, you can't totally discount that. Yes, the Caf is biased against him, but that's not everyone on here and that's due in a large part to how sub-par he's been for 3 or so seasons now and the effect that's had on our play.
Ibra was far worse than Rooney overall. But gets a pass, because he scored a vital goal. Lingard actually played quite well, even if you ignore the superb goal. Rooney was comfortably the second best attacking player on the day, in terms of overall performance. Not saying he had a good game (he didn't) but it is getting tiresome the way he is such a focus for all the discontent after every underwhelming team performance.
For all the talk of emotion, this is one emotional melodramatic post. Bravo.
I don't know if I agree on the Ibra thing. Hard to compare as while they did switch at points, Ibra was leading the line and more isolated. He (Ibra) kept there defence really occupied, made space for Jesse and if Martial had been up to running off the ball a bit more, he would have found the space. Had no issues with his hold up play either. And ultimately, he's there to receive and score, which he did. Not a great game, but he did his job and his general play was alright (bad first half from him).
Respectfully, can't see how you could say Rooney was our second best attacker on the day. off the top of my head Jesse, Valencia, Ibra, maybe even Mata during his cameo looked greater attacking threats that Rooney and were dispossessed a lot less. Rooney's touch and hold-up play really killed a few of our attacks before they got going.
I really need to find stats to back up my argument (anyone?) but I'm willing to bet my recollection is correct that Rooney made more passes, completed a higher % of passes, made more key passes, won more fouls, made more tackles and just generally played a lot better than Ibra. Who was really peripheral and gave the ball away a lot, often under very little pressure.
I've already said Lingard was the pick of our attacking players. Valencia's a fullback and Mata did very little of note in his cameo.
All of this is my opinion. Happy to admit I'm wrong if the stats go against me.
Here you go. Found some stats.
Rooney
67 touches
3 key passes
1 assist
3 shots
2 shots on target
76% pass completion
1 Dribble
0 Aerials Won
2 Fouls Won
0 Dispossessed
1 Tackle
0 Interceptions
0 Clearances
0 Fouls
Ibra
47 touches
1 key passes
0 assist
2 shots
2 shots on target
66% pass completion
0 Dribble
2 Aerials Won
1 Fouls Won
3 Dispossessed
0 Tackle
0 Interceptions
2 Clearances
2 Fouls
Not a whole lot between them but fairly clear evidence that Rooney had the better overall performance. Which is interesting when you see such a consensus on here that he was absolutely diabolical yet so few people willing to be as harsh about our match-winner. Almost as though people are allowing a single moment to make all the difference when judging a player's performance over 90 minutes of football.
Rooney
67 touches
3 key passes
1 assist
3 shots
2 shots on target
76% pass completion
1 Dribble
0 Aerials Won
2 Fouls Won
0 Dispossessed
1 Tackle
0 Interceptions
0 Clearances
0 Fouls
Ibra
47 touches
1 key passes
0 assist
2 shots
2 shots on target
66% pass completion
0 Dribble
2 Aerials Won
1 Fouls Won
3 Dispossessed
0 Tackle
0 Interceptions
2 Clearances
2 Fouls
Not a whole lot between them but fairly clear evidence that Rooney had the better overall performance. Which is interesting when you see such a consensus on here that he was absolutely diabolical yet so few people willing to be as harsh about our match-winner. Almost as though people are allowing a single moment to make all the difference when judging a player's performance over 90 minutes of football.
This has got to be wrong...
Would give you the bolded but then he was playing as a 10, so that's not a surprise.
Stats might be useful comparing against the other attacking/attacking mid players but my problem was not that he didn't do those things, it's that he did a lot of them poorly (wrong decision, safe passes etc). The losing possession stat is one I'd like to see, if it exists and takes into account bad touches when receiving the ball or being mugged after receiving it - if it's not that bad it would show my bias creeping in as that's the main thing I hammered him for.
Some of those stats are pointless to use when comparing Rooney to Ibrahimovic as they were playing different roles. Ibra was isolated partly down to Rooney's ineptitude and ended up dropping deeper to try and get involved. To be honest none of the attacking players were impressive but Rooney was the main culprit in slowing down our attacks and generally being unable to control the actual ball.
Doesnt count when Wayne dispossess himself.
It's not being dispossed when your touch gives the ball away I don't think... think it's just a loss of possession.
Heh, so when you lose possession of the ball because of a bad touch you're not dispossessed? Guess they really need to make a crappy touch-category as well then.
Rooney never had the ball under control in the game to be dispossessed
One more category for Rooney to dominate Ibra....
If those stats are saying he was dispossessed zero times then they are obviously fake or are using a different classification for the amount of times the ball bounced off him and landed into the feet of a Leicester player. Ibra was as bad whilst the assist credited to him for Lingard's goal is evidence enough for the theory that stats can be used to support almost anything on the face of the earth.
As far as stats go they can be very misleading. For example there's no stat for the amount of times the ball is played into you on the edge of the box and the ball bouncing away off your chin whilst you're trying to control it.
Rooney yesterday was poor and in his defence so was Ibra bar his goal. But the difference is Ibra scored the winner which as a striker is all you can ask for. As for Rooney playing behind the striker you can ask for a lot more.
Rooney yesterday was poor and in his defence so was Ibra bar his goal. But the difference is Ibra scored the winner which as a striker is all you can ask for. As for Rooney playing behind the striker you can ask for a lot more.
Surprised to see how much flak Rooney is taking from yesterday. I thought Rooney was ok. Bit rusty at times, but I saw enough to think he'll strike up a really good partnership with Zlatan this season - and I couldnt imagine it working before hand. On the whole I'm encouraged, and think they'll get better the longer they play together.
PLus... I think they both benefit from having younger, more energetic players around them, and we certainly have that this season
PLus... I think they both benefit from having younger, more energetic players around them, and we certainly have that this season
except he isnt like any other player. other players are dropped if playing at a poor level. People see it with their own eyes over a long period of time, your insistence its a personal witch hunt doesnt change what people see
For the position rooney is in, he needs to be better with movement, passing, able to beat a man, technically sound on the ball, rooney fails to check every box on what jose needs from his no10. Pogba should be where rooney is playing in that advanced role, for the money we're paying for Pogba, we got to build the team around him. The frustrating thing is? the team seems to still be built around rooney still, and this is the big problem
Interesting that so many people are getting hung up on the dispossessed stat, while ignoring the overall picture. All the stats indicate that Ibrahimovic did not play as well as Rooney, yet only one of the two players is being crucified on here for their performance. Once again, I'm not saying Rooney played well. But it is predictable the way he gets singled out, even when he wasn't the worst performer on the day.
And I'm not buying the idea that the stats just relfect the different roles they had on the day. Our front four were rotating constantly (which was great to see!) with Rooney and Ibra popping up all over the place. They clearly hadn't been instructed to play strictly as a 10 and 9, respectively.
And I'm not buying the idea that the stats just relfect the different roles they had on the day. Our front four were rotating constantly (which was great to see!) with Rooney and Ibra popping up all over the place. They clearly hadn't been instructed to play strictly as a 10 and 9, respectively.
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Ibra's all-round game was pretty poor as it was against Galatasaray but Rooney was easily the worse out of the two....
Stats (and my opinion) say you're wrong.
Respect your opinion but stats mean feck all to me if im being honest.
1. Because that's what pissed people off in the first half especially. Multiple attacking moves broke down due to his inability to control simple, well-placed passes into his feet. It's a key quality of any attacking midfielder or no.10 to have a high-quality first touch. This has been discussed to death about Rooney's deficiencies.
2. Hold on now. Didn't Ibra win the game? Not from a penalty, tap-in or defender mistake but rather a monster header against one of the best centre backs of last season. Who's ignoring the overall picture?
I would be very happy and glad if Rooney played like Ibra but scored a match winning goal every other game.
It's getting a bit tiring this. I myself thought he played well enough against Everton and I said so in this thread but feck me, there really is an agenda with Rooney and it's not the people criticising him.
Indeed it has. If someone can show me some stats to compare and contrast how many attacking moves broke down at his feet, compared to anyone else, then we can see what we're dealing with. Right now, all we've got is opinions. And the opinions in this thread vs Ibra's are farily solid evidence of the sort of bias that makes opinions very hard to take seriously.
Completely irrelevant to a discussion about overall performance. For example, when Rooney scored that famous bicycle kick against City most people agreed it came in a game where his overall performance was poor. It's possible to appraise overall performance in isolation from an individual moment of brilliance (if winning a header counts as a moment of brilliance)
I'd imagine much of it comes from the fact that while Ibrahimovic is a new player who's not really featured competitively for us yet, poor performances from Rooney are often seeming par for the course after last season. It's easier to excuse an overall poor performance (with a winning goal being scored by that player), when it's not something that's been happening on a consistent basis.
Ibra wasn't great by any means but he scored a goal, a goal most strikers would not have scored. He also did that versus Galatasaray. His goal scoring stats of the last few years also buy him time and patience from fans. But Rooney has been here for more than a decade, coming off a poor season he is bound to be under scrutiny by fans of this club.
Ibra also has qualities you can pinpoint, height, strength, heading, technique and shooting. With Rooney you just don't know what he excels at anymore, there are some intangibles like leadership (our team has an awful record of coming back from a losing position under his captaincy), silent dominations and the fact that he's Wayne Rooney. Not really something the average couchpotato like me can actually see from a live broadcast.
Ibra also has qualities you can pinpoint, height, strength, heading, technique and shooting. With Rooney you just don't know what he excels at anymore, there are some intangibles like leadership (our team has an awful record of coming back from a losing position under his captaincy), silent dominations and the fact that he's Wayne Rooney. Not really something the average couchpotato like me can actually see from a live broadcast.
Yeah, for sure. You're spot on. Ibr has excuses that don't apply to Rooney (although I think they're both getting used to playing together, which isn't helping their game) The only point I'm making is that if Rooney's performance was as woeful as you'd think from reading this thread then you'd have to expect to see absolute pelters for Ibrahimovic in his thread (along with with reasons/excuses for his underwhelming display) Yet this isn't happening at all. I think the reality is that Rooney was mediocre but nowhere near awful and slightly better than his new team-mate. Albeit with fewer excuses for being underwhelming.
You dont need stats to see how shit rooney is.
Coming from poque some more.
Im starting to think rooney employs a brigade of net crusaders to fight for him in the united forums.
Mind baffling people are so divided on seeing a turd and still trying to picture it as muffin
Coming from poque some more.
Im starting to think rooney employs a brigade of net crusaders to fight for him in the united forums.
Mind baffling people are so divided on seeing a turd and still trying to picture it as muffin
He was terrible yesterday. That assist was a pass for Jesse who had to run past 6 player for more than 30 yards. He has been on a downward spiral for many years now and even if Jose is a miracle worker he won´t save Rooney.. If Mata is on the way out well Rooney should be out first.
Zlatan takes a lot more of risk with intricate passing in tight areas where as Rooney choses the safe option almost every time. I'm not surprised that Zlatans stats is somewhat worse then Rooneys. Everyone and his uncle could see that Rooney lost the ball several times during the match because of his terrible touch, yet this is not reflected in the stats. What does that tell you?
The Rooney bashing isn't based off just one game though, obviously. Rooney may have been better than Ibra yesterday but he still wasn't good enough and hasn't been for quite some time. If Ibra keeps putting in performances like yesterday's then he will get the same slack eventually too.
Again, fair points. Don't disagree with any of that.
I'd imagine that largely comes from Ibra scoring the winner. Not that he'd have been slated had he not scored at all, but it's generally unusual to see a player criticised too heavily if they've made an important match-winning contribution.
I don't know how anyone can defend that performance from yesterday, the stats don't prove anything as how they are gauged is dubious at best, for instance the assist is an utter joke. They also don't take into account how many times Rooney failed to control a simple pass and killed an attacking move,
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