On what earth is this true?
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On what earth is this true?
There is no doubt in my mind what so ever that he sees Rooney as a spent force.
The first presser he did he ridiculed the idea of him playing as a midfielder and said he's better closer to goal. Now he's named his number 10's as "Mata, Rooney - possibly and Mkhitaryan".
So is he saying he's a striker now? That'll be interesting seeing him get minutes ahead of Zlatan and teachers pet Rashford in our one striker position.
I always think fans see the games as a spectators, those who play or played the game different. Every top player interviewed about Utd makes reference to Rooney. The thing on here is people rarely look at context, it's always black or white. No denying his game has been below standard at mo but his bar is higher than 90% of footballers. Every time he goes on the pitch for England and Utd, his game is under the spotlight. We've watched the worst Utd teams of over 20 years in the last 3 seasons, which he's captained and people seems to often apportioned the blame at times solely on him....
I'm old enough to remember the criticism of Giggs and Scholey. Even worst than that Beckham. The value of Rooney will only be recognised when he's no longer here.
Wow do you really believe this?
He is the face of United, plus at his peak he was truly a top player, of course they will reference him, its called respect. No body is calling him the most complete footballer in the world.
It's true though... it's just that the day he's referring to was back in 2010.
I agree. We could finally field a proper XI that will compete for thropies then without worrying of shoehorning him into the team.
Why wouldn't I? On his day Rooney can do everything on a football pitch....
What other strange phenomenon do you see in your world?
I think Rooney in 2010 was brilliant but even then I wouldn't have called him the most complete footballer in the world.
So can many, and so do many much more consistently than him.
Your statement was that on his day, hes the most complete footballer in the world. That statement is wrong.
This has nothing to do with you thinking that Rooney is the most complete player in the world. On his day, whenever the hell that is.
Lots of people appreciate Rooney's career at United. It's been a great one. But when he leaves we're certainly not losing anything on the pitch on the basis of the last few years.
Yep, read the same about all the Utd greats until they left, then you get nostalgia and selective memories of players once they'd gone. Ronaldo was a one trick pony, Becks had no pace, Giggs had no end product, Van couldn't score from outside the box, Scholes was neither forward or midfielder, Cole missed too many....the list goes on.
Rooney not great but Caf's glass is always half empty.....I can write the Ibra and Pogba stuff already before they've kicked a ball in the Prem....
Yes, the last few years here have been great haven't they....so why does Rooney have to be the fall guy. Was he crap when we had Scholes, Giggs, Ronaldo et al around him?
Wrong. What makes you right then?
I can comfortably say based on the content of your posts, you have probably never kicked a ball in your life. If you can't see how he holds us back currently there is no hope for you.
It's a pretty mental statement to make about him now. 7 years ago maybe.
He attacks a bit and occasionally busts a gut to make a tackle at left back. It doesn't make him "the most complete player in the world". Plenty of other all action players who have those sort of games far more often than he does.
It's not mental at all. Rooney's capable of subtle passes around the box, pinging crossfield passes onto a sixpence, scoring headers, volleys, near post tap-ins, or long range screamers. He has a poachers instincts but has also always been valued for his tactical discipline and hard work in deeper areas. He's clearly an unusually complete footballer. Hence so many different managers have used him in so many different positions (and been fulsome in their praise of his performances).
What's really mental is the obsessive hatred people have for him on here. There's a very good case to be made for cutting him loose, or at least relegating him to a squad player but @Wilson Litchmore is spot on in the parallels between him and former greats in the dog days of their careers. Dog's abuse quickly becomes all warm and fuzzy once a few years have passed and nostalgia kicks in.
What's really mental is the obsessive hatred people have for him on here. There's a very good case to be made for cutting him loose, or at least relegating him to a squad player but @Wilson Litchmore is spot on in the parallels between him and former greats in the dog days of their careers. Dog's abuse quickly becomes all warm and fuzzy once a few years have passed and nostalgia kicks in.
I been paid to kick a few, so has my son and I also have friends that have been paid to kick a few too but that's not the point. It's an opinion, and one that someone signs a cheque for 250k a week, and Nike who sponsors the top players in any sport are prepared to sign a cheque for equally. That doesn't happen if you can't play? He's not been great over the last 3 seasons but aside from our over-worked goalie, who has?
No, because he was younger, fitter, faster and stronger when they were around. Now he's just shite.
@Wilson Litchmore
You seem unwilling to accept that he physicallly isnt up to it anymore?
To quote the old cliche, he's "lost a yard" (or two)
That explosive pace over 10 yards has gone, and whilst he was always a good player in other positions he wasnt what you would call a great number 10, or winger, less still 6 or 8.
WHEN he was a top number 9 all these other attributes made him a top top player, but now he's not a 9 of note he's really just a jack of all trades. Master of none.
You seem unwilling to accept that he physicallly isnt up to it anymore?
To quote the old cliche, he's "lost a yard" (or two)
That explosive pace over 10 yards has gone, and whilst he was always a good player in other positions he wasnt what you would call a great number 10, or winger, less still 6 or 8.
WHEN he was a top number 9 all these other attributes made him a top top player, but now he's not a 9 of note he's really just a jack of all trades. Master of none.
That's a good description of what he was several years ago (not sure about the tactical discipline though). I'd agree that versatility was one of his best qualities because he was able to do a very good job in different positions. Now, I don't think that's true anymore. He is still versatile compared to most footballers but he isn't very good either as a striker or playmaker or CM. The sooner he is phased out, the better.
Rooney's last few years have been unparalleled in that when most great footballers undergo a decline and possibly get abuse, they're usually binned soon after. Ronaldinho for example was Fifa World Player of the Year in 2006 for his 05/06 season. In 06/07, he scored 21 goals and 3rd in the Ballon'Dor and only lost the title on H2H difference. The next year he was sold by Pep. Casillas with Spain is the only similar situation that I see which bears similarities to Rooney and that is in a less significant position.
If you go through most greats careers, once it is clear they are in decline, they are usually binned or given a reduced role.. at a smaller club perhaps they can last longer, but I have never seen such a cover up as Rooney where there is no mention of his decline and he is constantly shoehorned into sides despite being past it and no one is batting an eyelid. This has been going on since 2012, when Fergie first thought he wasn't quite the same player anymore. How has he managed to still be here after 4+ years.
That is why it will take a few years before people recognise what Rooney gave us at his best, because right now he seems like the only thing keeping him going right now is having these club records and securing his personal legacy and endorsements.
I think you're probably right. Although, being an eternal optimist, I'm willing to suspend my rational judgement long enough to harbour slim hopes that Mourinho will get an indian summer out of a player he's always wanted to work with. Time will tell how deluded I really am.
I'm not saying he's not been poor, nor am I saying he should walk into the team on past glories. My point is I don't separate the decline of Rooney's game from the decline of Utd. It's one of the same for me. Since SAF left, the single only player that's improved is the goal keeper and that's cause he's always in the game. Ive seen many a player come to OT to put pressure on Rooney and he's still here whilst others have left. It's interesting ahead but people would be very foolish to write him off.....
Being complete is obviously a plus, but someone like Gerrard was way more complete than Xavi.. doesn't mean he is close to him as a player. It is all about how good you are in certain positions, not how many positions you can play in to a mediocre level (FWIW Gerrard is a world class attacking midfielder). Rooney as a young man was a world class second striker, with additional qualities which made him seem much more than your average 10.. that is what made him such a talent. The fact he was versatile and complete wasn't what made him a great player, it was seen as the icing on an already special cake.
Once his core brilliance as a 10, and then as a 9 began to wane.. the only thing he had going for him was this so-called versatility and many managers apart from Fergie, seem to have overlooked that, seeing that the fact he could still do a lot of things with the ball.. still made him a special talent who must play in the team. They didn't realise that's performance as a 10 and 9 just weren't up to scratch anymore .. his core game and attributes were not the same as they once were.
Rooney's main problems have little to do with our last managers and everything to do with his slower reactions. His top speed is still good but he's lost explosiviness and his reactions, both physical and mental, have slowed down. As a result, he is a liability in high-intensity games, especally when the opposition presses him very well. Take, for instance, January, his best month of footbal in recent years. He was very good in several games, mostly vs weak opposition, and was poor vs Soton and Liverpool. Almost every time we play a quality team whose players do not leave Rooney much time on the ball, he struggles big time. Mourinho can't do anything for this problem, it will persist throughout the new season.
Been writing him off for years and he has done nothing but justify everything I have written. If he survives past this year as a first team player, I will be very very surprised.
So irrespective of how poor we've been over the last 3 seasons, are people really suggesting that Rooney should be exempt from any of the other 10 players in a red shirt....they must be on the decline too?
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Rooney's downturn has been going on too long for it just to be a short blip (down to managers or tactics). I wish it wasn't so but he's not special - it's happened to many players and he's just another. It is over for Rooney. We all know it. His physical attributes were a huge part of what made him a star at his best and they have all but deserted him. Some are just hoping for the best and some are writing nonsense to justify their hope for something that's not going to happen. His technical ability has always been up and down and it's not good enough to warrant a position in any title winning side.
The real interesting factor in his decline is his relatively young age I suppose. He hasn't looked after himself at all it seems and it's a shame how it's came back to bite him.
The real interesting factor in his decline is his relatively young age I suppose. He hasn't looked after himself at all it seems and it's a shame how it's came back to bite him.
What's truly bizarre is the long list of near-fictional defences Rooney's critics spout. To claim that Rooney has dragon wings hidden underneath his jersey would be bizarre and ill-founded; 99.9% of other criticisms are surely valid, given that virtually none of us have inside info regarding United.
Thread has already descended into arguments. What do you guys make of Mourinho not being sure again if Rooney is a 10?
Hopefully it's a process™
1) "He's a 10, a 9 and a 9 and a half"
2) "He's a 9 and a 9 and a half"
3) "He's a 9"
4) "He's on the bench"
So the managers, the staff and hierarchy at Utd keep a player that's so poor and agree to pay him 250k a year and make him captain. How's this club become the richest and best run club in the world making these kind of crap decisions....especially when they sold the likes of Becks and Van to Real whilst still in their prime?
It's also amazing how Nike who's logo is a license to print money, equally would want such a crap player wearing their stuff. If it's just on past glories, there's a bloke called Pele still alive, stick him in a Nike shirt?
It's amazing how the two biggest sport companies in the world still see Rooney's ability to have value (after all it's not cause of his looks) yet John the postman from Salford doesn't. Beggars belief....maybe their just nostalgic about his past glories so continue to write the 20m cheque ever year?
It's also amazing how Nike who's logo is a license to print money, equally would want such a crap player wearing their stuff. If it's just on past glories, there's a bloke called Pele still alive, stick him in a Nike shirt?
It's amazing how the two biggest sport companies in the world still see Rooney's ability to have value (after all it's not cause of his looks) yet John the postman from Salford doesn't. Beggars belief....maybe their just nostalgic about his past glories so continue to write the 20m cheque ever year?
I just think it means even Mourinho doesn't know his best position. In his first press conference he said Rooney might not be a no.9 anymore. At different points, he's raised doubts about him at 6,8,,10 and 9.
I don't want to jump the gun but imo, hes under serious pressure.
Yeah because Man Utd have never made poor decisions. Because Rooney has been excellent since being made captain. Since given that stupid contract under Moyes.
Must be our delusions because Manchester United as a club could never have human beings working for them that make daft decisions.
Well it would be crazy to label anyone under 30 as on the decline based on the last 3 years, so we can rule all of them out. In terms of 30+ players, I think Rooney's on the decline mainly because he's more likely, physically, to decline than other players the same age. He's never been the kind of lithe, natural athlete like Giggs. Carrick and Ibra would be the only other elder statesmen likely to be feature much this season and they're both lean as anything. Rooney's never been cut from that sort of cloth and was always likely to be someone who might be old beyond their years.
If he does has a role model in terms of not natural athletes who excelled deep into their 30s, then it would be Scholesy. I think that's why he's been tried out in midfield but I don't think that's a position you can learn so late in life (as a footballer)
So yeah, it's not unreasonable to see him in a decline that goes above and beyond being managed by shit managers. I hope that isn't true, though, and Mourinho will get him fit and firing again. Fingers crossed.
I don't want to get into an arguement about Rooney. I adored the guy growing up, he fully deserves his status in the game for what he has accomplished.
However, this thread is about Rooney now. If you can't admit that he is in decline, then there is nothing to talk about. A player in decline desnt mean he has nothing to give. And there are genuine discussions as if it would be better if he isn't in the team. Simply because he hasn't delivered performances that should guarantee him a place in the team, for a long while.
What's amazing is that your entire argument is based on United not making bad decisions, when we've just witnessed United make bad decision after bad decision for the last 3 years. Amazing indeed. And what's Nike got to do with anything? They don't care about Rooney's pace or first touch, they care about how marketable his face is.
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