Virgil van Dijk | VVD throws a hissy fit

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Varun said:
What's the hold up? If a deal is done, surely your club wants the guy training with your lot and getting ready for the season ahead?
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I don't know any details. I am guessing it's because southampton haven't signed a replacement yet?
 
Wessex Saint said:
Lack of ambition and pushing on. When people trot that out, you just know that they have no idea about football. I am presuming you are a Sky generation supporter.

Let's just look at the club and where it was when the owners bought it. in July 2009. We started on -10 pts and finished 7th in L1. Next season we got promoted to nPC, when we again got promoted to PL. Where we have finished 14th, 8th, 7th, 6th and last season 8th again. Now what do you expect us to have actually done - won the PL? If so, I would have to ask when have Liverpool won the PL? What happened to your club - where is your ambition? From 197/3-1990/1 you finished in the top 2 EVERY season except in 1980/1 where you finished 5th. So realistically, given that we are a small/medium provincial club, where do you expect us to finish in the league? Given that FFP rules are in place to prevent clubs who aren't already at the top table from joining, I really have no idea what you expect.

Now look at the finances. We have come from L1 and now have the 8th highest wage bill in the PL. Looking at the accounts, we are not squirrelling away huge amounts of money in the bank. We are spending what we make. You trot out this asinine "lack of ambition", but we are adhering to the rules and spending what we have. Pushing on how? Where do you magic this money from? Maybe you are advocating the Leeds Utd way of doing business? Is that it?

As for player sales...

Lovren. It was funny that Lyon laughed at us for paying £8m for him. They were absolutely p***ing themselves when you paid £20m a year later. He had been tapped up and he said that his head was already in Liverpool. He refused to train and went on strike. He was viewed as being not worth keeping given the money paid and was replaced with the loan Alderweireld, who we tried to sign on a permanent but he chose Spurs. Obviously LFC also think Lovren is a bit s**t as you are trying to sign VVD.

Lallana - another who had his head turned by being tapped up. At the time a massive over payment for him, but seeing as the market has moved, the price now seems good. But it wasn't back then. He refused to play as well so was also deemed to be replaceable with Dusan Tadic (who apparently you were sniffing after earlier this window as well). Personally do not think Tadic is as good, but maybe last season and our manager's poor style was the problem.

Mané - he threw a strop as well and said that he would refuse to sign a contract extension. I suspect that given that it was an ACN year, and a petulant player, it was deemed best to sell him. Of course he is hard to replace, but it was viewed that Boufal was the man. Boufal, like Mané, had a somewhat disappointing first season (for different reasons), so we will see this season.

Clyne - last year of his contract and refused to sign a new one. What do you suggest doing? We cannot compete wage wise, so short of holding a gun to his head, the perceived course of action is to cash in rather than let go on a free.

Lambert - no comment needed on that one.

So basically you are saying we should have kept all these players happy and kept them at the club. Ambition hey?? And how do you keep them happy? By paying them £100k+ a week. Do you really not think that if we could do that, we would be?? That's a rhetorical question, as you obviously don't think that, and thus why I say you have little idea how football works. Unless there is a wage cap that all PL clubs can afford, this situation is always going to happen.

But the way your club has acted is the problem. You've been caught doing it at all levels - the 12 year odl from Stoke. Solanke. VVD. It is sad that you supporters see nothing wrong with it, but then that is the new type of supporter that follows LFC. Your owners don't care. They have no connection to the City and none with the Club other than recently having bought it. No history. They are there to make an investment, and doing things the proper way gets in the way of making a profit, which goes against the reason for investing. FSG have turned you into a vile club. The saddest thing is the arrogance that LFC fans trot out, and the disdain for all others.

So your ambition amounts to spend spend spend. That's maybe what you are happy with. Me, I am a bit older. I want to actually grow something rather than just go out and buy it. Bring players through the academy, see players, see the connection with the club rather than having a team full of mercenaries. There is a happy balance to be had, as having a team full of academy players isn't going to work. Looking at your last game of the season.....Mignolet, Milner, Lovren, Matip, Clyne, Coutinho, Can, Wijnaldum, Lallana, Firmino, Sturridge. All 11 bought in, none with any long term connection to the club.
Click to expand...

Excellent post.
 
Wessex Saint said:
Lack of ambition and pushing on. When people trot that out, you just know that they have no idea about football. I am presuming you are a Sky generation supporter.

Let's just look at the club and where it was when the owners bought it. in July 2009. We started on -10 pts and finished 7th in L1. Next season we got promoted to nPC, when we again got promoted to PL. Where we have finished 14th, 8th, 7th, 6th and last season 8th again. Now what do you expect us to have actually done - won the PL? If so, I would have to ask when have Liverpool won the PL? What happened to your club - where is your ambition? From 197/3-1990/1 you finished in the top 2 EVERY season except in 1980/1 where you finished 5th. So realistically, given that we are a small/medium provincial club, where do you expect us to finish in the league? Given that FFP rules are in place to prevent clubs who aren't already at the top table from joining, I really have no idea what you expect.

Now look at the finances. We have come from L1 and now have the 8th highest wage bill in the PL. Looking at the accounts, we are not squirrelling away huge amounts of money in the bank. We are spending what we make. You trot out this asinine "lack of ambition", but we are adhering to the rules and spending what we have. Pushing on how? Where do you magic this money from? Maybe you are advocating the Leeds Utd way of doing business? Is that it?

As for player sales...

Lovren. It was funny that Lyon laughed at us for paying £8m for him. They were absolutely p***ing themselves when you paid £20m a year later. He had been tapped up and he said that his head was already in Liverpool. He refused to train and went on strike. He was viewed as being not worth keeping given the money paid and was replaced with the loan Alderweireld, who we tried to sign on a permanent but he chose Spurs. Obviously LFC also think Lovren is a bit s**t as you are trying to sign VVD.

Lallana - another who had his head turned by being tapped up. At the time a massive over payment for him, but seeing as the market has moved, the price now seems good. But it wasn't back then. He refused to play as well so was also deemed to be replaceable with Dusan Tadic (who apparently you were sniffing after earlier this window as well). Personally do not think Tadic is as good, but maybe last season and our manager's poor style was the problem.

Mané - he threw a strop as well and said that he would refuse to sign a contract extension. I suspect that given that it was an ACN year, and a petulant player, it was deemed best to sell him. Of course he is hard to replace, but it was viewed that Boufal was the man. Boufal, like Mané, had a somewhat disappointing first season (for different reasons), so we will see this season.

Clyne - last year of his contract and refused to sign a new one. What do you suggest doing? We cannot compete wage wise, so short of holding a gun to his head, the perceived course of action is to cash in rather than let go on a free.

Lambert - no comment needed on that one.

So basically you are saying we should have kept all these players happy and kept them at the club. Ambition hey?? And how do you keep them happy? By paying them £100k+ a week. Do you really not think that if we could do that, we would be?? That's a rhetorical question, as you obviously don't think that, and thus why I say you have little idea how football works. Unless there is a wage cap that all PL clubs can afford, this situation is always going to happen.

But the way your club has acted is the problem. You've been caught doing it at all levels - the 12 year odl from Stoke. Solanke. VVD. It is sad that you supporters see nothing wrong with it, but then that is the new type of supporter that follows LFC. Your owners don't care. They have no connection to the City and none with the Club other than recently having bought it. No history. They are there to make an investment, and doing things the proper way gets in the way of making a profit, which goes against the reason for investing. FSG have turned you into a vile club. The saddest thing is the arrogance that LFC fans trot out, and the disdain for all others.

So your ambition amounts to spend spend spend. That's maybe what you are happy with. Me, I am a bit older. I want to actually grow something rather than just go out and buy it. Bring players through the academy, see players, see the connection with the club rather than having a team full of mercenaries. There is a happy balance to be had, as having a team full of academy players isn't going to work. Looking at your last game of the season.....Mignolet, Milner, Lovren, Matip, Clyne, Coutinho, Can, Wijnaldum, Lallana, Firmino, Sturridge. All 11 bought in, none with any long term connection to the club.
Click to expand...

Boom!
 
Wessex Saint said:
Lack of ambition and pushing on. When people trot that out, you just know that they have no idea about football. I am presuming you are a Sky generation supporter.

Let's just look at the club and where it was when the owners bought it. in July 2009. We started on -10 pts and finished 7th in L1. Next season we got promoted to nPC, when we again got promoted to PL. Where we have finished 14th, 8th, 7th, 6th and last season 8th again. Now what do you expect us to have actually done - won the PL? If so, I would have to ask when have Liverpool won the PL? What happened to your club - where is your ambition? From 197/3-1990/1 you finished in the top 2 EVERY season except in 1980/1 where you finished 5th. So realistically, given that we are a small/medium provincial club, where do you expect us to finish in the league? Given that FFP rules are in place to prevent clubs who aren't already at the top table from joining, I really have no idea what you expect.

Now look at the finances. We have come from L1 and now have the 8th highest wage bill in the PL. Looking at the accounts, we are not squirrelling away huge amounts of money in the bank. We are spending what we make. You trot out this asinine "lack of ambition", but we are adhering to the rules and spending what we have. Pushing on how? Where do you magic this money from? Maybe you are advocating the Leeds Utd way of doing business? Is that it?

As for player sales...

Lovren. It was funny that Lyon laughed at us for paying £8m for him. They were absolutely p***ing themselves when you paid £20m a year later. He had been tapped up and he said that his head was already in Liverpool. He refused to train and went on strike. He was viewed as being not worth keeping given the money paid and was replaced with the loan Alderweireld, who we tried to sign on a permanent but he chose Spurs. Obviously LFC also think Lovren is a bit s**t as you are trying to sign VVD.

Lallana - another who had his head turned by being tapped up. At the time a massive over payment for him, but seeing as the market has moved, the price now seems good. But it wasn't back then. He refused to play as well so was also deemed to be replaceable with Dusan Tadic (who apparently you were sniffing after earlier this window as well). Personally do not think Tadic is as good, but maybe last season and our manager's poor style was the problem.

Mané - he threw a strop as well and said that he would refuse to sign a contract extension. I suspect that given that it was an ACN year, and a petulant player, it was deemed best to sell him. Of course he is hard to replace, but it was viewed that Boufal was the man. Boufal, like Mané, had a somewhat disappointing first season (for different reasons), so we will see this season.

Clyne - last year of his contract and refused to sign a new one. What do you suggest doing? We cannot compete wage wise, so short of holding a gun to his head, the perceived course of action is to cash in rather than let go on a free.

Lambert - no comment needed on that one.

So basically you are saying we should have kept all these players happy and kept them at the club. Ambition hey?? And how do you keep them happy? By paying them £100k+ a week. Do you really not think that if we could do that, we would be?? That's a rhetorical question, as you obviously don't think that, and thus why I say you have little idea how football works. Unless there is a wage cap that all PL clubs can afford, this situation is always going to happen.

But the way your club has acted is the problem. You've been caught doing it at all levels - the 12 year odl from Stoke. Solanke. VVD. It is sad that you supporters see nothing wrong with it, but then that is the new type of supporter that follows LFC. Your owners don't care. They have no connection to the City and none with the Club other than recently having bought it. No history. They are there to make an investment, and doing things the proper way gets in the way of making a profit, which goes against the reason for investing. FSG have turned you into a vile club. The saddest thing is the arrogance that LFC fans trot out, and the disdain for all others.

So your ambition amounts to spend spend spend. That's maybe what you are happy with. Me, I am a bit older. I want to actually grow something rather than just go out and buy it. Bring players through the academy, see players, see the connection with the club rather than having a team full of mercenaries. There is a happy balance to be had, as having a team full of academy players isn't going to work. Looking at your last game of the season.....Mignolet, Milner, Lovren, Matip, Clyne, Coutinho, Can, Wijnaldum, Lallana, Firmino, Sturridge. All 11 bought in, none with any long term connection to the club.
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But can't you hear the sweet, silver song of a lark in the distance mate?
 
Wessex Saint said:
Lack of ambition and pushing on. When people trot that out, you just know that they have no idea about football. I am presuming you are a Sky generation supporter.

Let's just look at the club and where it was when the owners bought it. in July 2009. We started on -10 pts and finished 7th in L1. Next season we got promoted to nPC, when we again got promoted to PL. Where we have finished 14th, 8th, 7th, 6th and last season 8th again. Now what do you expect us to have actually done - won the PL? If so, I would have to ask when have Liverpool won the PL? What happened to your club - where is your ambition? From 197/3-1990/1 you finished in the top 2 EVERY season except in 1980/1 where you finished 5th. So realistically, given that we are a small/medium provincial club, where do you expect us to finish in the league? Given that FFP rules are in place to prevent clubs who aren't already at the top table from joining, I really have no idea what you expect.

Now look at the finances. We have come from L1 and now have the 8th highest wage bill in the PL. Looking at the accounts, we are not squirrelling away huge amounts of money in the bank. We are spending what we make. You trot out this asinine "lack of ambition", but we are adhering to the rules and spending what we have. Pushing on how? Where do you magic this money from? Maybe you are advocating the Leeds Utd way of doing business? Is that it?

As for player sales...

Lovren. It was funny that Lyon laughed at us for paying £8m for him. They were absolutely p***ing themselves when you paid £20m a year later. He had been tapped up and he said that his head was already in Liverpool. He refused to train and went on strike. He was viewed as being not worth keeping given the money paid and was replaced with the loan Alderweireld, who we tried to sign on a permanent but he chose Spurs. Obviously LFC also think Lovren is a bit s**t as you are trying to sign VVD.

Lallana - another who had his head turned by being tapped up. At the time a massive over payment for him, but seeing as the market has moved, the price now seems good. But it wasn't back then. He refused to play as well so was also deemed to be replaceable with Dusan Tadic (who apparently you were sniffing after earlier this window as well). Personally do not think Tadic is as good, but maybe last season and our manager's poor style was the problem.

Mané - he threw a strop as well and said that he would refuse to sign a contract extension. I suspect that given that it was an ACN year, and a petulant player, it was deemed best to sell him. Of course he is hard to replace, but it was viewed that Boufal was the man. Boufal, like Mané, had a somewhat disappointing first season (for different reasons), so we will see this season.

Clyne - last year of his contract and refused to sign a new one. What do you suggest doing? We cannot compete wage wise, so short of holding a gun to his head, the perceived course of action is to cash in rather than let go on a free.

Lambert - no comment needed on that one.

So basically you are saying we should have kept all these players happy and kept them at the club. Ambition hey?? And how do you keep them happy? By paying them £100k+ a week. Do you really not think that if we could do that, we would be?? That's a rhetorical question, as you obviously don't think that, and thus why I say you have little idea how football works. Unless there is a wage cap that all PL clubs can afford, this situation is always going to happen.

But the way your club has acted is the problem. You've been caught doing it at all levels - the 12 year odl from Stoke. Solanke. VVD. It is sad that you supporters see nothing wrong with it, but then that is the new type of supporter that follows LFC. Your owners don't care. They have no connection to the City and none with the Club other than recently having bought it. No history. They are there to make an investment, and doing things the proper way gets in the way of making a profit, which goes against the reason for investing. FSG have turned you into a vile club. The saddest thing is the arrogance that LFC fans trot out, and the disdain for all others.

So your ambition amounts to spend spend spend. That's maybe what you are happy with. Me, I am a bit older. I want to actually grow something rather than just go out and buy it. Bring players through the academy, see players, see the connection with the club rather than having a team full of mercenaries. There is a happy balance to be had, as having a team full of academy players isn't going to work. Looking at your last game of the season.....Mignolet, Milner, Lovren, Matip, Clyne, Coutinho, Can, Wijnaldum, Lallana, Firmino, Sturridge. All 11 bought in, none with any long term connection to the club.
Click to expand...

Excellent post. Some of the points are just *hit the nail on the head*, especially how they approach transfers and players going on strike.
 
Wessex Saint said:
Lack of ambition and pushing on. When people trot that out, you just know that they have no idea about football. I am presuming you are a Sky generation supporter.

Let's just look at the club and where it was when the owners bought it. in July 2009. We started on -10 pts and finished 7th in L1. Next season we got promoted to nPC, when we again got promoted to PL. Where we have finished 14th, 8th, 7th, 6th and last season 8th again. Now what do you expect us to have actually done - won the PL? If so, I would have to ask when have Liverpool won the PL? What happened to your club - where is your ambition? From 197/3-1990/1 you finished in the top 2 EVERY season except in 1980/1 where you finished 5th. So realistically, given that we are a small/medium provincial club, where do you expect us to finish in the league? Given that FFP rules are in place to prevent clubs who aren't already at the top table from joining, I really have no idea what you expect.

Now look at the finances. We have come from L1 and now have the 8th highest wage bill in the PL. Looking at the accounts, we are not squirrelling away huge amounts of money in the bank. We are spending what we make. You trot out this asinine "lack of ambition", but we are adhering to the rules and spending what we have. Pushing on how? Where do you magic this money from? Maybe you are advocating the Leeds Utd way of doing business? Is that it?

As for player sales...

Lovren. It was funny that Lyon laughed at us for paying £8m for him. They were absolutely p***ing themselves when you paid £20m a year later. He had been tapped up and he said that his head was already in Liverpool. He refused to train and went on strike. He was viewed as being not worth keeping given the money paid and was replaced with the loan Alderweireld, who we tried to sign on a permanent but he chose Spurs. Obviously LFC also think Lovren is a bit s**t as you are trying to sign VVD.

Lallana - another who had his head turned by being tapped up. At the time a massive over payment for him, but seeing as the market has moved, the price now seems good. But it wasn't back then. He refused to play as well so was also deemed to be replaceable with Dusan Tadic (who apparently you were sniffing after earlier this window as well). Personally do not think Tadic is as good, but maybe last season and our manager's poor style was the problem.

Mané - he threw a strop as well and said that he would refuse to sign a contract extension. I suspect that given that it was an ACN year, and a petulant player, it was deemed best to sell him. Of course he is hard to replace, but it was viewed that Boufal was the man. Boufal, like Mané, had a somewhat disappointing first season (for different reasons), so we will see this season.

Clyne - last year of his contract and refused to sign a new one. What do you suggest doing? We cannot compete wage wise, so short of holding a gun to his head, the perceived course of action is to cash in rather than let go on a free.

Lambert - no comment needed on that one.

So basically you are saying we should have kept all these players happy and kept them at the club. Ambition hey?? And how do you keep them happy? By paying them £100k+ a week. Do you really not think that if we could do that, we would be?? That's a rhetorical question, as you obviously don't think that, and thus why I say you have little idea how football works. Unless there is a wage cap that all PL clubs can afford, this situation is always going to happen.

But the way your club has acted is the problem. You've been caught doing it at all levels - the 12 year odl from Stoke. Solanke. VVD. It is sad that you supporters see nothing wrong with it, but then that is the new type of supporter that follows LFC. Your owners don't care. They have no connection to the City and none with the Club other than recently having bought it. No history. They are there to make an investment, and doing things the proper way gets in the way of making a profit, which goes against the reason for investing. FSG have turned you into a vile club. The saddest thing is the arrogance that LFC fans trot out, and the disdain for all others.

So your ambition amounts to spend spend spend. That's maybe what you are happy with. Me, I am a bit older. I want to actually grow something rather than just go out and buy it. Bring players through the academy, see players, see the connection with the club rather than having a team full of mercenaries. There is a happy balance to be had, as having a team full of academy players isn't going to work. Looking at your last game of the season.....Mignolet, Milner, Lovren, Matip, Clyne, Coutinho, Can, Wijnaldum, Lallana, Firmino, Sturridge. All 11 bought in, none with any long term connection to the club.
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There's a lot of valid points in there and I've learnt a bit about Southampton from you, but the Sky generation comment is uncalled for. It's patronising at best.

I found your last paragraph bizarre. How is that limited to Liverpool? How many academy players do Chelsea or City have in their first choice XI? Are their owners connected to their cities? That's modern football now. I agree that it's sad but that's the way it is.

You just said that you want Southampton to grow something but how do you expect them to do that if they keep selling every player that has a good season? What do you want to see grow at Southampton?

You seem fairly knowledgeable about Southampton so tell me about the players you sold to other clubs, like Wanyama or Shaw. Were those avoidable sales?
 
Wessex Saint said:
So your ambition amounts to spend spend spend. That's maybe what you are happy with. Me, I am a bit older. I want to actually grow something rather than just go out and buy it. Bring players through the academy, see players, see the connection with the club rather than having a team full of mercenaries. There is a happy balance to be had, as having a team full of academy players isn't going to work. Looking at your last game of the season.....Mignolet, Milner, Lovren, Matip, Clyne, Coutinho, Can, Wijnaldum, Lallana, Firmino, Sturridge. All 11 bought in, none with any long term connection to the club.
Click to expand...

Maybe it's really the age but I would so love to see us go that way again but I know it never can be because our fans have been to spoiled with titles and great players that they haven't got the patience for players to "grow up" anymore. One bad performance from Martial/Rashford/Lingard etc and the pitch forks come out in droves. Sometimes it feels like everyone of our young players has to be the second coming of Ronaldo and either perform at world class level in 90% of our games by the age of 20 or he isn't good enough for the first team. That really saddens me especially since our current situation doesn't do anything to convince me that just buying the "finished product" is somehow the proven way for better results.
 
30-40 years ago, southampton probably could have built a title challenging side for a few years with the signings they've been getting in in recent years.

The reality of modern football is that the top sides are just too loaded. Smaller clubs can't afford to say no, richer clubs are happy to pay and more aggressive than ever in pursuing the next new thing. Players likewise are more quickly swayed by higher wages and enticed by the lessons of the past 25 years that tells us that smaller clubs may have a good outlier season but only the rich clubs stay competitive.

See also the calibre of players that went through west ham in the early 00s.

It sucks really.
 
B20 said:
30-40 years ago, southampton probably could have built a title challenging side for a few years with the signings they've been getting in in recent years.

The reality of modern football is that the top sides are just too loaded. Smaller clubs can't afford to say no, richer clubs are happy to pay and more aggressive than ever in pursuing the next new thing. Players likewise are more quickly swayed by higher wages and enticed by the lessons of the past 25 years that tells us that smaller clubs may have a good outlier season but only the rich clubs stay competitive.

See also the calibre of players that went through west ham in the early 00s.

It sucks really.
Click to expand...

They are owned by the Liebherr Group who have an annual revenue of over £8billion a year.

They could become big players as they build up Southampton in a sustainable fashion.
 
Klopper76 said:
There's a lot of valid points in there and I've learnt a bit about Southampton from you, but the Sky generation comment is uncalled for. It's patronising at best.

I found your last paragraph bizarre. How is that limited to Liverpool? How many academy players do Chelsea or City have in their first choice XI? Are their owners connected to their cities? That's modern football now. I agree that it's sad but that's the way it is.

You just said that you want Southampton to grow something but how do you expect them to do that if they keep selling every player that has a good season? What do you want to see grow at Southampton?

You seem fairly knowledgeable about Southampton so tell me about the players you sold to other clubs, like Wanyama or Shaw. Were those avoidable sales?
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Wanyama - same as Clyne. Last year of contract, knew there was more money at other clubs, didn't want to renew contract. Sold when he got to the last year.
Shaw - £30m is £30m. The medical staff also had concerns about his physical condition and whether his body could take it.
Chambers - £16m for someone who had played 18 games. Well he ended up at Boro last season on loan, but he had his head turned by the big wages and it didn't do him much good.

Just imagine how LFC would have done if they had kept Suarez.

As for the last paragraph, it is not just aimed at you. I recall when City came to Saints last season, I was sitting there and wondering what City supporters actually felt towards their team. They had no English player in the starting XI, and Sterling came on for 5 minutes. I would hate it. The club is just a name, which is increasingly getting franchised, and has the whole team of players that aren't there for the club, just the wage. It is the way the game is now. I do also wonder what the point was of spending £200m on their academy. Clubs our size need to bring players through. My favourite season recently was when we had Poch as manager as he did play the youngsters. One game I think we had 7 who had come through the academy.

And we are not owned by the Liebherr Group. We are owned by Katharina Liebherr separate from the Group.
 
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johnny boy said:
And make Chelsea even stronger, so good for United yes?
You would rather upset Liverpool than make the current champions even better, a bit odd?
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Well there is also the point of view that Chelsea are going to be strong regardless of signing him or not, while Liverpool improving one of the areas where they have a major issue would be the less ideal out of the 2 situations.

The reaction from Liverpool fans if they miss out on him and he ends up at Chelsea will be great fun from a United/Southampton fan point of view though but that's a given if the roles were reversed as well.

@Wessex Saint , I wont quote your post as plenty have done it already :) but thanks for that, really good insight.
 
Wessex Saint said:
Shaw - £30m is £30m. The medical staff also had concerns about his physical condition and whether his body could take it.
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Sorry to jump in here but with regards to Shaw, everyone also scoffed at the £30m fee at the time as it was a big fee in that window compared to now.

Also when Shaw left your club didn't you have another highly rated LB coming through called Targett, who played a few games for you last season?

Let's also not forget you also replaced Shaw with Bertrand for £12m was it? And he's easily in the top 3 LB in the PL, he was great last season and surprise surprise he was linked with Liverpool!
 
@Wessex Saint - Excellent, passionate and probably one of the best posts I've read from an oppo poster here. Great read.
 
Yup we had Targett but he hadn't made it into the team by then, we had the awful Danny Fox!!! Bertrand was the replacement to Shaw, initially on loan and value wise, it has worked out well.

But going back to player sales. Just look at VVD now. Once they have been tapped up and their head turned, you got to ask yourself what options you have other than to sell. So yes, we didn't/don't have to sell, but once they have been turned, is there nay coming back. Strange that the problems have only ever been with 1 club. Must have a unique style of recruitment.

But in this instance, things are different. As far as I see it....

1) Liverpool have right royally p'ed Saints off and there is a reluctance to sell to them at any cost. Can't blame SFC, as once a player's head is turned that's often you up the spout. LFC have never made an offer. I get the impression that they are trying to make the player be as disruptive as possible so that they can get him on the cheap (relatively speaking).
2) There is a dearth of CBs, so SFC finding an adequate replacement is going to be hard, not least the poor value out there. Spurs wanting £20m for Wimmer and LFC £30m for Sakho isn't what we want.
3) The length left on the contract (5 more years) coupled with the demand for him, will not affect his value if he is with the U23s this season.
4) The Club, with LFC's antics in this case, have been pushed too far and the club is putting down a marker. They knew that VVD had been tapped up and wanted to go back in May. If there was the intention of selling then it probably would have happened by now.
5) A lot of people do not understand that we do not want to sell. They go on about our previous sales, but there was a financial need to allow reinvestment. That has now changed. Of course every player has a price, and the press going on about £60m is far short of it. It WAS £75m although that might now have changed and gone even higher. The fact the LFC have not signed a CB reinforces the dearth of good ones.
 
Wessex Saint said:
Wanyama - same as Clyne. Last year of contract, knew there was more money at other clubs, didn't want to renew contract. Sold when he got to the last year.
Shaw - £30m is £30m. The medical staff also had concerns about his physical condition and whether his body could take it.
Chambers - £16m for someone who had played 18 games. Well he ended up at Boro last season on loan, but he had his head turned by the big wages and it didn't do him much good.

Just imagine how LFC would have done if they had kept Suarez.

As for the last paragraph, it is not just aimed at you. I recall when City came to Saints last season, I was sitting there and wondering what City supporters actually felt towards their team. They had no English player in the starting XI, and Sterling came on for 5 minutes. I would hate it. The club is just a name, which is increasingly getting franchised, and has the whole team of players that aren't there for the club, just the wage. It is the way the game is now. I do also wonder what the point was of spending £200m on their academy. Clubs our size need to bring players through. My favourite season recently was when we had Poch as manager as he did play the youngsters. One game I think we had 7 who had come through the academy.

And we are not owned by the Liebherr Group. We are owned by Katharina Liebherr separate from the Group.
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Well said mate - far too many people around now who are totally caught up in the money/making 'big name' signings, etc., etc. but who actually have no clue what it is like to support a club that is not run as if money is no object .
 
Wessex Saint said:
Yup we had Targett but he hadn't made it into the team by then, we had the awful Danny Fox!!! Bertrand was the replacement to Shaw, initially on loan and value wise, it has worked out well.

But going back to player sales. Just look at VVD now. Once they have been tapped up and their head turned, you got to ask yourself what options you have other than to sell. So yes, we didn't/don't have to sell, but once they have been turned, is there nay coming back. Strange that the problems have only ever been with 1 club. Must have a unique style of recruitment.

But in this instance, things are different. As far as I see it....

1) Liverpool have right royally p'ed Saints off and there is a reluctance to sell to them at any cost. Can't blame SFC, as once a player's head is turned that's often you up the spout. LFC have never made an offer. I get the impression that they are trying to make the player be as disruptive as possible so that they can get him on the cheap (relatively speaking).
2) There is a dearth of CBs, so SFC finding an adequate replacement is going to be hard, not least the poor value out there. Spurs wanting £20m for Wimmer and LFC £30m for Sakho isn't what we want.
3) The length left on the contract (5 more years) coupled with the demand for him, will not affect his value if he is with the U23s this season.
4) The Club, with LFC's antics in this case, have been pushed too far and the club is putting down a marker. They knew that VVD had been tapped up and wanted to go back in May. If there was the intention of selling then it probably would have happened by now.
5) A lot of people do not understand that we do not want to sell. They go on about our previous sales, but there was a financial need to allow reinvestment. That has now changed. Of course every player has a price, and the press going on about £60m is far short of it. It WAS £75m although that might now have changed and gone even higher. The fact the LFC have not signed a CB reinforces the dearth of good ones.
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Good post. To be honest I hadn't thought of the fact that Soton probably won't sell now as he was getting tapped up well before the end of the season, and they'd have sold quickly and painlessly at a fair £60-65m by now if they were going to.

I really don't know how @B20 can say with such certainty that it will happen because all the signs say to me that it won't.
 
Wessex Saint said:
Yup we had Targett but he hadn't made it into the team by then, we had the awful Danny Fox!!! Bertrand was the replacement to Shaw, initially on loan and value wise, it has worked out well.

But going back to player sales. Just look at VVD now. Once they have been tapped up and their head turned, you got to ask yourself what options you have other than to sell. So yes, we didn't/don't have to sell, but once they have been turned, is there nay coming back. Strange that the problems have only ever been with 1 club. Must have a unique style of recruitment.

But in this instance, things are different. As far as I see it....

1) Liverpool have right royally p'ed Saints off and there is a reluctance to sell to them at any cost. Can't blame SFC, as once a player's head is turned that's often you up the spout. LFC have never made an offer. I get the impression that they are trying to make the player be as disruptive as possible so that they can get him on the cheap (relatively speaking).
2) There is a dearth of CBs, so SFC finding an adequate replacement is going to be hard, not least the poor value out there. Spurs wanting £20m for Wimmer and LFC £30m for Sakho isn't what we want.
3) The length left on the contract (5 more years) coupled with the demand for him, will not affect his value if he is with the U23s this season.
4) The Club, with LFC's antics in this case, have been pushed too far and the club is putting down a marker. They knew that VVD had been tapped up and wanted to go back in May. If there was the intention of selling then it probably would have happened by now.
5) A lot of people do not understand that we do not want to sell. They go on about our previous sales, but there was a financial need to allow reinvestment. That has now changed. Of course every player has a price, and the press going on about £60m is far short of it. It WAS £75m although that might now have changed and gone even higher. The fact the LFC have not signed a CB reinforces the dearth of good ones.
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Man you are on fire in here today, love the posts. How do you think the vvd will play out?
 
Southampton should fleece Liverpool for a fee now that Liverpool look like they are getting north of £100m for Coutinho. Would be a beautiful watering down of an obscene Neymar fee if a third of it ended up being spent on van Dijk :lol:
 
LuisNaniencia said:
I'd rather Chelsea add a CB that they don't really need as opposed to Liverpool adding one they desperately need. You do understand this is a Manchester United Forum?
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Well one thing seems certain - VVD will not be going to Liverpool regardless.
 
Morpheus 7 said:
Man you are on fire in here today, love the posts. How do you think the vvd will play out?
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I have no idea TBH, its quite an interesting one! Who is going to blink first. While the common perception is that the player has all the power, it seems not so in this case, and the player, his agent and LFC seem to have misread the situation. If I was forced to say, I reckon he will now stay this season and be sold next year. He hasn't burned his bridges with the manager. The question will then be, will he still want to go to LFC. Will LFC still want him. Will SFC want to deal with LFC. Will another bigger club come in for him?

Then of course, maybe CFC will come in with a deal + some of their on loan army of players and it will be done. Although it will be the pragmatic thing to do now that LFC have near ruined his relationship with SFC, it won't look great having made such a song and dance about not selling him.
 
frank lee madeer.. said:
Because they couldn't pursue it on their own, they'd been bollocked. It's not as if they could just keep asking after that is it ? Chelsea coming in opens the door again. Southampton, will no doubt contact Liverpool. More bidders the more money they get.
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This makes no sense.
 
Wessex Saint said:
Lack of ambition and pushing on. When people trot that out, you just know that they have no idea about football. I am presuming you are a Sky generation supporter.

Let's just look at the club and where it was when the owners bought it. in July 2009. We started on -10 pts and finished 7th in L1. Next season we got promoted to nPC, when we again got promoted to PL. Where we have finished 14th, 8th, 7th, 6th and last season 8th again. Now what do you expect us to have actually done - won the PL? If so, I would have to ask when have Liverpool won the PL? What happened to your club - where is your ambition? From 197/3-1990/1 you finished in the top 2 EVERY season except in 1980/1 where you finished 5th. So realistically, given that we are a small/medium provincial club, where do you expect us to finish in the league? Given that FFP rules are in place to prevent clubs who aren't already at the top table from joining, I really have no idea what you expect.

Now look at the finances. We have come from L1 and now have the 8th highest wage bill in the PL. Looking at the accounts, we are not squirrelling away huge amounts of money in the bank. We are spending what we make. You trot out this asinine "lack of ambition", but we are adhering to the rules and spending what we have. Pushing on how? Where do you magic this money from? Maybe you are advocating the Leeds Utd way of doing business? Is that it?

As for player sales...

Lovren. It was funny that Lyon laughed at us for paying £8m for him. They were absolutely p***ing themselves when you paid £20m a year later. He had been tapped up and he said that his head was already in Liverpool. He refused to train and went on strike. He was viewed as being not worth keeping given the money paid and was replaced with the loan Alderweireld, who we tried to sign on a permanent but he chose Spurs. Obviously LFC also think Lovren is a bit s**t as you are trying to sign VVD.

Lallana - another who had his head turned by being tapped up. At the time a massive over payment for him, but seeing as the market has moved, the price now seems good. But it wasn't back then. He refused to play as well so was also deemed to be replaceable with Dusan Tadic (who apparently you were sniffing after earlier this window as well). Personally do not think Tadic is as good, but maybe last season and our manager's poor style was the problem.

Mané - he threw a strop as well and said that he would refuse to sign a contract extension. I suspect that given that it was an ACN year, and a petulant player, it was deemed best to sell him. Of course he is hard to replace, but it was viewed that Boufal was the man. Boufal, like Mané, had a somewhat disappointing first season (for different reasons), so we will see this season.

Clyne - last year of his contract and refused to sign a new one. What do you suggest doing? We cannot compete wage wise, so short of holding a gun to his head, the perceived course of action is to cash in rather than let go on a free.

Lambert - no comment needed on that one.

So basically you are saying we should have kept all these players happy and kept them at the club. Ambition hey?? And how do you keep them happy? By paying them £100k+ a week. Do you really not think that if we could do that, we would be?? That's a rhetorical question, as you obviously don't think that, and thus why I say you have little idea how football works. Unless there is a wage cap that all PL clubs can afford, this situation is always going to happen.

But the way your club has acted is the problem. You've been caught doing it at all levels - the 12 year odl from Stoke. Solanke. VVD. It is sad that you supporters see nothing wrong with it, but then that is the new type of supporter that follows LFC. Your owners don't care. They have no connection to the City and none with the Club other than recently having bought it. No history. They are there to make an investment, and doing things the proper way gets in the way of making a profit, which goes against the reason for investing. FSG have turned you into a vile club. The saddest thing is the arrogance that LFC fans trot out, and the disdain for all others.

So your ambition amounts to spend spend spend. That's maybe what you are happy with. Me, I am a bit older. I want to actually grow something rather than just go out and buy it. Bring players through the academy, see players, see the connection with the club rather than having a team full of mercenaries. There is a happy balance to be had, as having a team full of academy players isn't going to work. Looking at your last game of the season.....Mignolet, Milner, Lovren, Matip, Clyne, Coutinho, Can, Wijnaldum, Lallana, Firmino, Sturridge. All 11 bought in, none with any long term connection to the club.
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Give this man a beer!!

Bang! Have the YAWNs scurrying back to RAWK.
 
LuisNaniencia said:
I'd rather Chelsea add a CB that they don't really need as opposed to Liverpool adding one they desperately need. You do understand this is a Manchester United Forum?
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I understand completely that you don't want Liverpool to do well, what I don't is that it would strengthen Chelsea a team you finished 5 place behind last season.
So yes I find it odd people would be happy if he went there, though I can understand it would probably be best if he stayed where he was.
 
johnny boy said:
I understand completely that you don't want Liverpool to do well, what I don't is that it would strengthen Chelsea a team you finished 5 place behind last season.
So yes I find it odd people would be happy if he went there, though I can understand it would probably be best if he stayed where he was.
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I'd much rather see Chelsea win the title than Liverpool, and to a lesser extent City. In that sense, most people here would probably prefer a good player to choose Chelsea over the other two, were he to move.
 
Kapardin said:
I'd much rather see Chelsea win the title than Liverpool, and to a lesser extent City. In that sense, most people here would probably prefer a good player to choose Chelsea over the other two, were he to move.
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At least Liverpool stand on their own two feet. Preferring a sugar-daddy club over Liverpool is bizarre in my view ... unless you want to see football further reduced to merely a battle of chequebooks between club owners who offer their managers blank cheques to fill in the amount they wish to spend.
 
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GlastonSpur said:
At least Liverpool stand on their own two feet. Preferring a sugar-daddy club over Liverpool is bizarre in my view ... unless you want to see football further reduced merely a battle of chequebooks between club owners who offer their managers blank cheques to fill in the amount they wish to spend.
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I would rather see the Manson family win the Premier League before Liverpool. Liverpool winning would be unbearable. And I mean that as a compliment. Chelsea winning is just 'meh'.
 
GlastonSpur said:
At least Liverpool stand on their own two feet. Preferring a sugar-daddy club over Liverpool is bizarre in my view ... unless you want to see football further reduced merely a battle of chequebooks between club owners who offer their managers blank cheques to fill in the amount they wish to spend.
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Would you rather Arsenal or City win the league?
 
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