Victor Osimhen | out of options | goes to Gala on loan

golden_blunder said:
Only if he drops his wage demands significantly. He will be in nearly 650k per week in Saudi.

In case people haven’t noticed there is a bit of a revolution going on with wages in England. For him to take even a 50% cut would still put him above 300k pw
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His wage demands are not 650k a week, its to maintain his current Napoli salary its only 650k a week for Saudi. Chelsea are still in negotiations with him
 
golden_blunder said:
Im talking in the assumption that he’s gonna go to SA
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Fair but again hes not going to ask 650k from anyone other than Suadi which is why he isn't now, and there is a reason he has asked for a release clause and one that is significantly lower than 100m euros.
Its a shame because he should have left last summer, (and he also rejected a move to Saudi last summer by the way)
 
Rnd898 said:
No? Chelsea's first priority was always about ditching Lukaku on a permanent move, whether it was to Napoli or anywhere else.

Outside of that we've held a long time interest in Osimhen but that move has always been viewed as more or less a long shot because of his salary demands. The idea has been that if Osimhen doesn't want to go to the Saudis we could try to negotiate a reasonable contract if there are no other European clubs after a top striker in this window. But now that he's opened the door to the Saudis it's game over for that plan and chances are we'd have to pay through the nose to actually land him.

It'll be a shame if he actually decides to go waste away in the Saudi League at the age of 25 when he's just about to enter his prime years as a player. But also quite telling of what his priorities are.
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I can’t understand why any player would want to go to Chelsea at the moment, you’re only a manager sacking away from being told you are up for sale. I think SA is a safer bet
 
Rnd898 said:
No? Chelsea's first priority was always about ditching Lukaku on a permanent move, whether it was to Napoli or anywhere else.

Outside of that we've held a long time interest in Osimhen but that move has always been viewed as more or less a long shot because of his salary demands. The idea has been that if Osimhen doesn't want to go to the Saudis we could try to negotiate a reasonable contract if there are no other European clubs after a top striker in this window. But now that he's opened the door to the Saudis it's game over for that plan and chances are we'd have to pay through the nose to actually land him.

It'll be a shame if he actually decides to go waste away in the Saudi League at the age of 25 when he's just about to enter his prime years as a player. But also quite telling of what his priorities are.
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Seeing as there's a rich history of Nigerian players faking their age for work permits, I wouldn't really put too much emphasis on how old he is or what his motivations are.
 
crossy1686 said:
Seeing as there's a rich history of Nigerian players faking their age for work permits, I wouldn't really put too much emphasis on how old he is or what his motivations are.
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Come on now
 
I think the fact they’ve agreed a deal for Toney tells me there’ll be a twist here and he’ll go to Chelsea. He’s a top player - so that’s a real shame. If it happens we can add Chelsea to the big list of EPL clubs that have strikers that would start for us.
 
Mickeza said:
I think the fact they’ve agreed a deal for Toney tells me there’ll be a twist here and he’ll go to Chelsea. He’s a top player - so that’s a real shame. If it happens we can add Chelsea to the big list of EPL clubs that have strikers that would start for us.
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I think he probably will too.
 
The Original said:
Really? Are there any proven cases of Nigerians who have played in Europe with falsified ages?
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None ever proven to my knowledge, but Kanu, Okocha, Martins, West, Yakubu and several others were accused of being older than their actual age.

Think Moyes said of Yakubu "he's 25, albeit a Nigerian 25". Redknapp once joked he was really 49.

At this stage it's just become a bad joke.
 
Oranges038 said:
None ever proven to my knowledge, but Kanu, Okocha, Martins, West, Yakubu and several others were accused of being older than their actual age.

Think Moyes said of Yakubu "he's 25, albeit a Nigerian 25". Redknapp once joked he was really 49.

At this stage it's just become a bad joke.
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So casual racism and accusations without proof interesting
In any case Osimhen has been on the world scene since u17 world cup and even before, there is not doubt about his age
 
Cassidy said:
So casual racism and accusations without proof interesting
In any case Osimhen has been on the world scene since u17 world cup and even before, there is not doubt about his age
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There's some cases (Moukoko being one that seems more solid than a random assertion) but it's not as strongly evidenced as you'd think by how often it gets thrown in there.
 
Oranges038 said:
None ever proven to my knowledge, but Kanu, Okocha, Martins, West, Yakubu and several others were accused of being older than their actual age.

Think Moyes said of Yakubu "he's 25, albeit a Nigerian 25". Redknapp once joked he was really 49.

At this stage it's just become a bad joke.
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Yeah, accusations, but accusations only, and all based on the same stereotype. Of course, age cheating has happened but I'd say it would be very unlikely to have happened on any significant scale in the last 20 years as advances in medical testing and record keeping have occurred, and in Osimhen's case, it would be pretty much impossible since he's been in the National youth set-up and played at every age group, which means he's been MRI tested over and over again.
 
Cassidy said:
So casual racism and accusations without proof interesting
In any case Osimhen has been on the world scene since u17 world cup and even before, there is not doubt about his age
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When teams and players are still being scanned and getting punished because of overage players at youth tournamenas, it's not going to go away anytime soon. It's been an ongoing thing for as long as I can remember. Roger Milla was supposed to be almost 50 in 1990 or 1994.

Like I said, at this stage, it's a bad joke that keeps getting brought up about individual players.
 
The Original said:
Yeah, accusations, but accusations only, and all based on the same stereotype. Of course, age cheating has happened but I'd say it would be very unlikely to have happened on any significant scale in the last 20 years as advances in medical testing and record keeping have occurred, and in Osimhen's case, it would be pretty much impossible since he's been in the National youth set-up and played at every age group, which means he's been MRI tested over and over again.
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Cameroon banished 32 u17 players just last year because of the MRI tests.
 
The Original said:
So the age cheats are being dealt with domestically and therefore not making it to Europe? Also how would that have anything to do with Nigeria?
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Just answering your point about age cheating being done on a significant scale. It's got nowt to do with Oshimen or Nigeria.

But these things still happen and people will still make the same bad jokes about the ages of individual African players, regardless of what country they are from.
 
The Original said:
Really? Are there any proven cases of Nigerians who have played in Europe with falsified ages?
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Seems there's a few documented cases, particularly the 1989 Nigerian Youth team: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_fraud_in_association_football#Africa

BBC report here on 'rampant' age fraud in Africa: https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/26174252

And then there's this kid, who was 17... when this photo was taken. Cameroonian though: https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/26162408
 
crossy1686 said:
Seems there's a few documented cases, particularly the 1989 Nigerian Youth team: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_fraud_in_association_football#Africa

BBC report here on 'rampant' age fraud in Africa: https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/26174252

And then there's this kid, who was 17... when this photo was taken. Cameroonian though: https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/26162408
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So the rich history (Nigerian) you were referring to is a single incident that dates over 30 years?
 
crossy1686 said:
Casual racism? That's a massive stretch. Guess this article from the BBC is racist then?

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/26174252
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There's arguably some elements of a stereotype at play when it gets thrown just on the basis of nationality. Also in the larger context of talking about immigrants defrauding the legal protections for minors (in claiming refugee status or if arrested by police) where MRI / bone density testing will come up.

Athletes lying about their age do happen and obviously it's more common from some African or South American regions where presumably birth certificate record keeping and testing for age may not be as readily available. You'd think however that once they enter the European pro system -given past cases, current state of medicine and the very large sums involved in pro football- it's a lot harder to get away with it.
 
Plastic Evra said:
There's arguably some elements of a stereotype at play when it gets thrown just on the basis of nationality. Also in the larger context of talking about immigrants defrauding the legal protections for minors (in claiming refugee status or if arrested by police) where MRI / bone density testing will come up.

Athletes lying about their age do happen and obviously it's more common from some African or South American regions where presumably birth certificate record keeping and testing for age may not be as readily available. You'd think however that once they enter the European pro system -given past cases, current state of medicine and the very large sums involved in pro football- it's a lot harder to get away with it.
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I completely agree, and I'm sure Osimhen is the age they say he is, my comment was more tongue in cheek than anything, but for arguments sake, would you trust Napoli in this instance? Italian teams love a cover up.
 
crossy1686 said:
Nope, there's more, just read the page and then google the unconfirmed cases also. These are just the one's that got caught.
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There is no question over whether or not age cheating happens at the grassroots level in Africa. It clearly does.

But what you said was there is a rich history of Nigerian players falsifying their ages for work permits [in Europe], in order to infer that this might be true for Victor Osimhen. This is not true as there is no such history.

First, unless you mean to suggest that Nigeria = Africa, I don't see why you're providing evidence of Camerounian age cheats and the like. What does that prove here, unless you mean to argue that all African countries are the same, so whatever is true for one is true for all?

Secondly, these are players who were all caught domestically either at local age-grade competitions or by their home federation, further proving that the likelihood of age cheats making it to Europe is close to zero since there is a pretty strong barrier to them even making it as professionals in the first place. I would imagine that top European clubs would likely conduct further due diligence with similarly advanced medical techniques.

In fact, it's an argument that sits on its own head. If there is such an issue with age cheating that it leads to such an extensive testing regime, wouldn't that instead suggest that a player who passes all those tests and makes it to Europe is about as certain as can be to be the age he claims?

Your comment about Osimhen was, therefore, completely out of place in almost every way. There is literally no history of a European club having proven issues with a Nigerian age cheat.
 
The Original said:
There is no question over whether or not age cheating happens at the grassroots level in Africa. It clearly does.

But what you said was there is a rich history of Nigerian players falsifying their ages for work permits [in Europe], in order to infer that this might be true for Victor Osimhen. This is not true as there is no such history.

First, unless you mean to suggest that Nigeria = Africa, I don't see why you're providing evidence of Camerounian age cheats and the like. What does that prove here, unless you mean to argue that all African countries are the same, so whatever is true for one is true for all?

Secondly, these are players who were all caught domestically either at local age-grade competitions or by their home federation, further proving that the likelihood of age cheats making it to Europe is close to zero since there is a pretty strong barrier to them even making it as professionals in the first place. I would imagine that top European clubs would likely conduct further due diligence with similarly advanced medical techniques.

In fact, it's an argument that sits on its own head. If there is such an issue with age cheating that it leads to such an extensive testing regime, wouldn't that instead suggest that a player who passes all those tests and makes it to Europe is about as certain as can be to be the age he claims?

Your comment about Osimhen was, therefore, completely out of place in almost every way. There is literally no history of a European club having proven issues with a Nigerian age cheat.
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Well when I made that comment it was tongue in cheek and I was mostly referring to the Nigerian players that have played in the PL over the last 20 years or so. I can remember off the top off my head Kanu, Martins and Yakubu all having their age questioned? Not officially though from what I remember.

I'm not disagreeing with anything you've said here, it's probably very difficult to get away with this these days, however you're assuming that a team that signs a player will then openly and unprovoked tell the world that the player they just spent a bunch of money on is in fact much older than they originally thought they were.
 
Plastic Evra said:
There's some cases (Moukoko being one that seems more solid than a random assertion) but it's not as strongly evidenced as you'd think by how often it gets thrown in there.
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Moukoko is also not Nigerian
 
crossy1686 said:
Casual racism? That's a massive stretch. Guess this article from the BBC is racist then?

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/26174252
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Yes the comment from Moyes was casually racist, I don't see the BBC article saying or joking someone is lying about their age without proof
Just because its a problem in African football or has been does not mean you can casually say that about any African player
 
Cassidy said:
Yes the comment from Moyes was casually racist, I don't see the BBC article saying or joking someone is lying about their age without proof
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Ah sorry, I thought you were referring to the suggestion that there was age fraud, but yeah, Moyes wasn't really good with his words.
 
crossy1686 said:
Well when I made that comment it was tongue in cheek and I was mostly referring to the Nigerian players that have played in the PL over the last 20 years or so. I can remember off the top off my head Kanu, Martins and Yakubu all having their age questioned? Not officially though from what I remember.

I'm not disagreeing with anything you've said here, it's probably very difficult to get away with this these days, however you're assuming that a team that signs a player will then openly and unprovoked tell the world that the player they just spent a bunch of money on is in fact much older than they originally thought they were.
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You can remember a lot of casual racism towards Nigerian players in the PL
 
Cassidy said:
Moukoko is also not Nigerian
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I was addressing the assertion in general because specifically designating Nigeria is a little absurd to begin with.

crossy1686 said:
I completely agree, and I'm sure Osimhen is the age they say he is, my comment was more tongue in cheek than anything, but for arguments sake, would you trust Napoli in this instance? Italian teams love a cover up.
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I could see a club finding a player is perhaps lying about his age ex post facto and looking the other way or not digging itself into an hole about it. I'd like to think it is less likely the more clubs are involved.
 
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The Original said:
There is no question over whether or not age cheating happens at the grassroots level in Africa. It clearly does.

But what you said was there is a rich history of Nigerian players falsifying their ages for work permits [in Europe], in order to infer that this might be true for Victor Osimhen. This is not true as there is no such history.

First, unless you mean to suggest that Nigeria = Africa, I don't see why you're providing evidence of Camerounian age cheats and the like. What does that prove here, unless you mean to argue that all African countries are the same, so whatever is true for one is true for all?

Secondly, these are players who were all caught domestically either at local age-grade competitions or by their home federation, further proving that the likelihood of age cheats making it to Europe is close to zero since there is a pretty strong barrier to them even making it as professionals in the first place. I would imagine that top European clubs would likely conduct further due diligence with similarly advanced medical techniques.

In fact, it's an argument that sits on its own head. If there is such an issue with age cheating that it leads to such an extensive testing regime, wouldn't that instead suggest that a player who passes all those tests and makes it to Europe is about as certain as can be to be the age he claims?

Your comment about Osimhen was, therefore, completely out of place in almost every way. There is literally no history of a European club having proven issues with a Nigerian age cheat.
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Bro come on, you're making this bigger than it is.

Inaccurate date of births are common place for people from South Asian and African countries, I've recruited double digit amount of doctors for the NHS who's birthday is 1/1/19something. Many of my best friends parents genuinely do not know their own date of birth.

I think it's pretty common knowledge from people within the game that ages of African players are not always accurate, nobody really cares unless its a youth tournament (and there is evidence that age cheating is happening at African youth tournaments). By the time these players make it to Europe, nobody cares how old they are, as most of the time they're good enough to be playing senior football.

It would be a wasted resource to confirm ages of players.
 
Lynty said:
It would be a wasted resource to confirm ages of players.
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Not if it impacts their resale value down the road.

I think there's a difference between inaccurate birth records (where you think the average variance would be in general a couple of years off) -or something like South Korea counting age/DoB differently- and players shaving multiple years off which often seems to be the implication.
 
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