Rashford's explosion should make a goalscoring CF much less of a priority. Looking at the way you're set up now, I think you need an upgrade on Weghorst more than anything(well, that and good backups for Case and Rashford). Off the top of my head i can think of Milinkovic-Savic, who basically plays the same role for Lazio as a hybrid attacking midfielder/target man/workhorse. Bellingham is intriguing but not sure he has it to act as a target man
Victor Osimhen | out of options | goes to Gala on loan
- Thread starter L1nk
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Disagree since Rashford plays mostly off the LW and we need more than 1 20 goal a season player in the starting 11. We have a lack of quality depth in the attacking wide areas too and Martial is a crock.
Martial Weghorst Elanga need replacing in attack.
Then backup for Casemiro and Fernandes or a new no10 (Id take Maddison due to his versatility and he's not too expensive due to contract length).
Weghorst isn't even playing as a target man though. He's pretty useless in the air (but has his other pros). Long term we definitely need a reliable central player, and generally I think we have enough creators in attack and just need reliable scorers. Rashford will always be one, maybe not to this extent but still a good scorer, but another like Osimhen makes sense.
The key is we don't need a pure poacher, we need someone who is well rounded in attack, who can hold up the play etc.
He doesn't though? He's playing as a pure striker right now, which is what he is, playing off of Weghorst
Mmm, Bruno, Sancho and Antony should all be capable of chipping in with 10-15 goals each, and obviously you want Weghorst replacement to hit those numbers as a baseline. Young Dele Alli would have been perfect for it, it's too bad he fell apart
Garnacho, Sancho, Bruno, Antony plus Weghorst replacement sounds pretty good tbh, you'd only really need another CF to backup Rashford as far as forwards go
Who is a player you think has that kind of potential? 9s are really scarce. Not talking about world-class strikers, just good strikers. It's hard to find options out there. Seems the whole 9s being able to contribute with scoring opportunities has result in a lack of proper goal scorers.
Comparing three Rashford league seasons, in per 90 terms and without penalties.
18/19 - 0.39 goals, 0.41 xG
19/20 - 0.37 goals, 0.44 xG
22/23 - 0.65 goals, 0.45 xG
The point being that while Rashford's underlying stats have certainly improved on his last two seasons (which I've excluded for that reason), they're still in line with previous seasons in which he finished on 10 and 11 non-penalty league goals.
In other words you'd be taking a hell of a risk assuming that this explosion of goals that just looks like a return to previous form coupled with a hot streak of overperformance is anything else. Which in turn means you'd be taking a hell of a risk thinking he is going to be a dependable enough source of goals for you not to need another primary goalscorer at centre-forward.
He's played a few games as a pure striker and the majority from LW
Whether players should be chipping in more goals or not. The clear fact is they are not.
We’ll be going again next season on all fronts.
ST: Rashford New backup ?
LW: Sancho Garnacho Rashford
10: Bruno new backup Sancho
RW: Antony Bruno Sancho
Its clearly not enough for challenging in all fronts.
7 players for 4 positions to me is light.
Ah, good point
I agree
I’m very anti-stats in general, but I even recall that when he was linked last summer those spider web thingies even showed he was low in progressive carries. And then of course, just watching him, you can see within minutes that he’s not a Brennan Johnson, H.M. Son etc. His performance thread is literally full of complaints about him getting the ball, stopping and then passing sideways or backwards and a refusal to run with it. If he is what is called a good ball carrier then heaven knows what someone like Son is or Giggs was. He plays like a number 10. Unless we’re not all talking about the same player here, our Brazilian winger Antony?
If the ball breaks on the edge of our box after a corner, I’d want Rashford, then Shaw, then Fred then Wan Bissaka to carry it forward before I’d want it falling to Antony personally.
You dont like facts? Okay.
What? The Weghorst thing is out of necessity, it's not how we are determined to play. Ideally Rashford can come off the left but we've basically played without a striker all year with Ronaldo being finished and leaving, Martial never being fit (although this has been when we've looked most effective the little he's played), and Weghorst being poor upfront so now playing that withdrawn role.
The same reason Haaland has made a joke of the PL goal scoring rates this year.
Stop thinking World class players won't destroy whatever league they play in. It's like the idiots that argued Messi wouldn't be able to do it in the PL for the longest time. If Mbappe was playing for Arsenal/City/Liverpool/Utd he'd have just as many goals as he currently does for PSG (maybe not Liverpool they've been crap most of the year)
It’s a fact to me that Antony isn’t a good ball carrier. Everyone gets to watch the same football match, surely I don’t require another person to tell me that Antony is good at something I think he isn’t good at.
Yeah that's the problem isn't it. The market is pretty barren for that profile of player once you exclude the unattainable. Kolo Muani ticks some of the boxes, but I'm hesitant on judging attacking talent from the Bundesliga with the high pressing, helter-skelter football they play. You don't get those crazy open spaces in the PL.
This set up wasn't the initial set up of how ten Hag used Weghorst. It was different set up until vs Leeds home. The change of set up is probably because ten Hag has realised what are Weghorst strength and weakness and he came out with this set up to get the best out of him and at the same time benefits the squad. So it doesn't mean ten Hag himself wants to play the same set up in the longer term for his ideal main set up.
I like the idea of having Osimhen and Rashford as the two main goalscorers, while having Weghorst as the backup plan if we need to change the set up. Osimhen has the physical presence and work rate like Weghorst, while also has the exploit pace like Rashford. It's almost like if one is injured, there is replacement.
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So basically it doesnt matter what the actual truth is and recorded stats says. Your wrong opinion doesnt make you right...obviously. What an odd way to go about life. Did you vote for Brexit? Trump?
Antony, as recorded, is a very good ball carrier whether you agree or not.
Having him and Rashford possibly interchanging on occasion on the pitch along with potentially Bruno and Sancho would be absolutely lethal for opposing backlines
Yes we've seen time and time again how exciting some players look in the bundesliga only to watch them fail in the premier league. It seems its forbiden to actually defend with more than 4 players in the bundesliga. All the scorers look eletric having acres of space but facing packed defenses they crumble.
As much as I like WW don't think he has the quality to even be our #9 backup.
If we sell Martial this summer imo we'd need to buy two #9. Osimhen and a big, strong, good aerial thread and can finish a bit like Mitrovic.
That's still Osimhen
So we'll buy two Osimhen thenThat's still Osimhen
If Rashford is injured or loss his form, we have to rely on injured Martial or Weghorst to score the goals for us.
Imagine that.
I don't think would sell Martial because from the point of view of the buying club, his wage, and injury record they would offer to pay us in peanut. May as well keeping him if that the case because when he plays, his talent level is really high.
Even with Martial, we still need 2 forwards because we don't know whether he's available when we need to rotate. The back up forward not necessary need to be any specific profile because being specific would cost more in this sellers' market. Just someone at the expected level that happy to be back up.
Actually I don’t see him as good ball carrier at Man Utd in PL either, at least not quite up to what I expect of him when we signed him, as back then he was regarded as one of best ball progression/carries in European league, so I do have certain level of expectation.
For example, from what I’ve seen so far at United, he seems can’t progress the ball well when opponents are actually defending in front of him in the final third. But saying that he might have carried the ball forward a bit when he has all the space to do so, hence the stats.
Imo this is pretty much why we'd need to sell him. If he can't stay fit and be available when we really need him that just destroys any meaning of him staying as a backup. While his wages are reportedly 250k a week. Money supposedly shouldn't be an issue if the Qataris buy us however we'd still have to comply with FFP I think.
When we buy the back up forward in the way I suggest above, we can't be picky, so that forward may not be suitable for certain situation even when the main forward needs to rest. In that situation, by luck if Martial become available, his talent level and profile would be sufficient to start those games for us.
Selling Martial like this, I am afraid we don't even get 10 mil out of it. I don't think we're any close to red zone with FFP after getting some addition while keeping Martial on the book. Last season the wage bill was larger including Martial, but it's not an issue with FFP
Yeah tbh I don't mind keeping him either. I simply resigned to the thought of any luck with him being fit when we really need him.
92nd percentile in CL and 88 percentile in Eredivise last year. So you must remember wrong.
First, I shouldn't call him backup. May be more like a player who we need as plan B or plan C. Someone who can offer something different to allow us changing tactic. His defensive aspects can benefit Osimhen and Rashford.
Second, At the moment, the only player that offers pace and goals in our XI is Rashford. If we lose Rashford, we won't have anyone with the same level of pace and goals. May be this is why we need Osimhen?
Hence why both Osimhen and Weghorst may be the signings to provide balance in our attacking squad?
Playing with WW now is like playing with a defensive midfielder at the #9 or #10. You put McT there and imo he'd probably be even better than WW. And that worked to some extent in the last matches but imo it shouldn't be how we'd plan for next season. Even for plan C or D.First, I shouldn't call him backup. May be more like a player who we need as plan B or plan C. Someone who can offer something different to allow us changing tactic. His defensive aspects can benefit Osimhen and Rashford.
Second, At the moment, the only player that offers pace and goals in our XI is Rashford. If we lose Rashford, we won't have anyone with the same level of pace and goals. May be this is why we need Osimhen?
Hence why both Osimhen and Weghorst may be the signings to provide balance in our attacking squad?
Tbf to WW imo he'd done pretty well so far but he's no where near the quality we'd need here. I like him but imo he's simply not good enough. He did pretty fine as a cheap emergency loan but that's it. With the supposed money we'd have this summer we can have much better options I think.
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Well, that's pretty much why I said we might need both Weghorst and Osimhen because Weghorst offers something that not many strikers out there offer. His defensive aspect, fitness, and stamina are just incredible that we might still need Weghorst type of striker for Plan B and Plan C.
I just added in my post that shouldn't be even our plan C or D in next season.
Plus we already have McT. Who imo would be even better for that.
What we lack now is someone who can win the long balls which WW clearly fail to despite his height. Imo WW doesn't add anything to the squad aside from his workrate and energy and being super annoying to the opponent's midfield. Which imo we'd have plenty in McT.
Why shouldn't we have different plans? Manager needs to have different plan if the plan A doesn't work because plan A doesn't always work.
McT has never play in the role and if the news was true about making McT available in transfer market then I would rather cash in for 25m-30m while McT has his value. Good value to make profit.
Another thing you forgot is the fitness. The work rate and aggression for this role means the chance of injury risk of a player who plays in this role is high, but in Weghorst's case he very rarely get injured despite of the pressing and defensive work he does. I'm not sure if McT can stay away from injuries.
https://www.transfermarkt.com/wout-weghorst/verletzungen/spieler/228645
https://www.transfermarkt.com/scott-mctominay/verletzungen/spieler/315969
I didn't say we shouldn't have different plans. What I said was WW as a DM in the #9 or #10 shouldn't be even our plan C or D in next season.
McT hasn't played this position yet but with his workrate and energy it shouldn't be a problem. Plus he can finish a bit unlike WW. He's a lot faster as well.
And why we're discussing about injures and availablity like this will be our regular plan A next season is something I can't understand.
Anyway this discussion looks like going nowhere I guess. So we should agree to disagree then mate.
We are right now having WW in that no 10 or no 9.5 role whatever you call it as our part of different plans. Because of that, we were able to change the games or even won the matches. Why shouldn't we have that as part of our alternative plans if the main plans don't work?
We're discussing about availability because this kind of role have high risk of getting injuries.
I raised valid arguments but you couldn't tackle the arguments. I just raised an argument that I believe is valid which is the reason why we may be need Osimhen and Weghorst.
I think we need Osimhen and a new young forward and to bin Weghorst
Rashford is streaky, he could go back into his shell like last season and we would be fecked. Remember this isn't his first breakout season, he had it before but didnt build on it but now he is matured having overcome last season's adversity and playing well in a better and happier team so maybe this time he will stay in peak form.
I know we need to sort out the midfield but I'd sooner have the top striker in now and make Sabitzer permanent for 20m odd. We have Eriksen to come back but I feel that Sabitzer in top form could provide us that balance alongside Casemiro and make us more physically imposing in midfield. Eriksen can start those matches against parked buses and Sabitzer comes in for the more combative ones. Then at times Bruno goes to the right and Eriksen plays in the hole. Perfect balance.
If I had a choice I'd choose Kane over Osimhen, the long term benefits of the latter notwithstanding. Why? Because Kane, as you said can feed Rashford whilst scoring a ton himself. Osimhen, Rashford and Bruno would be too many inconsistent passers in the front four for ETH's liking hence why I see him going for a younger striker to build up banking on the Rashford goals in the interim. A Martial type of striker would he ideal because he'd bring the best, in scoring terms, out of both Bruno and Rashford.
Theres always room for improvement in any first team or squad however all we need is a CF and CM to challenge on all fronts. Ericksen and Sancho are more than good for excellent cover as a number 10 when needed.
Casemiro is brilliant but for me the signing of the season is Martinez, he has allowed the team to function and play the modern game, absolute masterstroke.
Casemiro is brilliant but for me the signing of the season is Martinez, he has allowed the team to function and play the modern game, absolute masterstroke.