[BehemothTerror]

I agree with alot of whats been said about his weaknesses but a key one for me is a lack of aggression.
Vs Everton if he been more aggressive in trying to stop James Rodrigues shot he could have got the block. Bailey would have thrown himself at that shot to at least try and make the block, Lindelof was very passive.
Vs West Brom he should have been better in the air and attacked the ball more. He should have done more to fight for a VAR check as he'll have been all too aware he was basically ragdolled and illegally blinded.

Mistakes happen though and our defence is as bad as some would have us believe. When Lindelof plays well he's great he just need to step up another level. Our problems are more to do with lack of width on the right, Martials poor season and the lack of a mobile CDM who can quickly move the play or get consistently play a ball through an an opposing press. Lindelof is still a good squad option that can be improved on, but he's not a lost cause like Rojo was.

 

[A-man]

I agree with alot of whats been said about his weaknesses but a key one for me is a lack of aggression.
Vs Everton if he been more aggressive in trying to stop James Rodrigues shot he could have got the block. Bailey would have thrown himself at that shot to at least try and make the block, Lindelof was very passive.
Vs West Brom he should have been better in the air and attacked the ball more. He should have done more to fight for a VAR check as he'll have been all too aware he was basically ragdolled and illegally blinded.

Mistakes happen though and our defence is as bad as some would have us believe. When Lindelof plays well he's great he just need to step up another level. Our problems are more to do with lack of width on the right, Martials poor season and the lack of a mobile CDM who can quickly move the play or get consistently play a ball through an an opposing press. Lindelof is still a good squad option that can be improved on, but he's not a lost cause like Rojo was.

Yes the lack of aggression is his biggest weakness. It’s obviously a balance between being cool and aggressive, both tools are important and the best defenders know how to switch between them.

Bailly would maybe have thrown himself, we don’t know, it is speculative. Sometimes Bailly is very aggressive, sometimes a passive spectator. Like the goals we conceded against Leicester, I thought he was passive. The first was very similar to James goal and Bailly did not throw himself to cover.

I personally feel that our defensive midfield that has been so good this season, has been poor in the last two matches. Many of our conceded chances and goals from the two last matches would have been avoided if they had been better. Still annoyed that we played with such a high midfield and no protection against Everton when we were up 2-0. That was naive and we invited them in to a match we controlled.

 

[Raven]

A few of them are making specific points, such as below:



Yes, I understand. The issue happens before and hence regardless of the foul/resulting goal.

A lot of what he does annoys me, too. Not a match goes by where I wish he and Smalling were swapped. But for me in this case it also does look like he was going to deal with the cross until getting a faceful of glove and then not getting it called correctly.

He makes a very specific point which is wrong anyway, plenty of people have been saying it wasn't a foul. He has a strange dislike for Lindelof though, so I dont take his thoughts on the matter particularly seriously.

 

[golden_blunder]

There’s nothing strange about my dislike for Lindelof. I just think he’s a very average defender that we could and should do better than. If we want to get back to the top we have to start making hard decisions. Lindelof to me is like one of those ‘meh’ defenders that Liverpool used to collect under houllier, Rafa and Rodgers.

 

[Adam-Utd]

There’s nothing strange about my dislike for Lindelof. I just think he’s a very average defender that we could and should do better than. If we want to get back to the top we have to start making hard decisions. Lindelof to me is like one of those ‘meh’ defenders that Liverpool used to collect under houllier, Rafa and Rodgers.

100%

Many of us can see it. I feel like some fans want to defend our players until death as they feel like it's what a "proper fan" does - but the fact is they're lucky to even be here.

It reminds me the Lingard / Pereira situation to be honest. Capable of having good games but majority of the time just doing enough to give them a pass, rather than excelling.

There's probably 7/8 centre backs you could swap with Lindelof outside of the top 6 and still do a job just as well.

 

[golden_blunder]

100%

Many of us can see it. I feel like some fans want to defend our players until death as they feel like it's what a "proper fan" does - but the fact is they're lucky to even be here.

It reminds me the Lingard / Pereira situation to be honest. Capable of having good games but majority of the time just doing enough to give them a pass, rather than excelling.

There's probably 7/8 centre backs you could swap with Lindelof outside of the top 6 and still do a job just as well.

Yeah I know what you mean, I feel like we could throw one of those Burnley or Brighton lads in and he’d probably solidify it a bit more. However I want us to really not just settle for “okay”

 

[Kostov]

There’s nothing strange about my dislike for Lindelof. I just think he’s a very average defender that we could and should do better than. If we want to get back to the top we have to start making hard decisions. Lindelof to me is like one of those ‘meh’ defenders that Liverpool used to collect under houllier, Rafa and Rodgers.

What is more strange is the group of United fans who I think probably had the luxury to watch Vidic and Rio play in their lifetime, now are finding so many excuses for Victor Lindelof, asking for proofs and evidence why the guy is an absolute average CB who should be nowhere near Manchester United first team. You can make a compilation of shit defending, howlers and what not from his time here.

 

[romufc]

You can make a compilation of shit defending, howlers and what not from his time here.

Stuff like this is just crap. I can make a compilation of any defender having howlers. This is the problem these days, we live in an age where just because there is a compilation of shit defending he is a shit defender.

I don't think he is a good defender but blimey you don't need a compilation to see that.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Yeah I know what you mean, I feel like we could throw one of those Burnley or Brighton lads in and he’d probably solidify it a bit more. However I want us to really not just settle for “okay”

Coady, Keane, Dunk, Soyuncu, Tarkowski, Mings, Fofana would all easily be better.

 

[Kostov]

Stuff like this is just crap. I can make a compilation of any defender having howlers. This is the problem these days, we live in an age where just because there is a compilation of shit defending he is a shit defender.

I don't think he is a good defender but blimey you don't need a compilation to see that.

I meant to say a 10 minute compilation, but somehow missed that time detail. It would have maybe made my point a bit different and same like your, you actually don't need much evidence to see that he is a very average defender.

 

[romufc]

I meant to say a 10 minute compilation, but somehow missed that time detail. It would have maybe made my point a bit different and same like your, you actually don't need much evidence to see that he is a very average defender.

You will waste your time making a compilation of him. I was backing him even though I knew he isn't good enough but as the team has got better, he has not improved at all.

He cannot win duels, gives away silly fouls all the time, isn't aggressive enough. The West Brom game, I must have shouted LINDELOFFFF at my TV almost every 5 minutes.

The one thing I really hate about Lindelof and Maguire is their passing out the back, yes they can pass it but the amount of time they spend on the ball frustrates me. When there is no pressure they pass to each other take 5 touches and then the opponents press the ball and send it long only for the ball to come back or pass to someone who is being pressed.

Why do they not move the ball quicker? There is a pass available but they make that pass 5 seconds too late.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Coady, Keane, Dunk, Soyuncu, Tarkowski, Mings, Fofana would all easily be better.

Not sure about Soyuncu, think he's a bit of a liability... Would add in Vestergaard

Makes me wonder what the current Top 10 CB's in the league looks like. I genuinely don't think Lindelof gets in there.... but then I also don't think any club would have two players in the top 10 (Maybe Liverpool with VVD and Gomez, though i know a lot don't rate Gomez... or City with Dias and Laporte? but Laporte doesn't even play....)

 

[Raven]

There’s nothing strange about my dislike for Lindelof. I just think he’s a very average defender that we could and should do better than. If we want to get back to the top we have to start making hard decisions. Lindelof to me is like one of those ‘meh’ defenders that Liverpool used to collect under houllier, Rafa and Rodgers.

We're in agreement there, he's fairly mehh. I think a lot of people in here, yourself included have gone beyond criticism and entered the realm of abuse.

 

[mav_9me]

Not sure about Soyuncu, think he's a bit of a liability... Would add in Vestergaard

Makes me wonder what the current Top 10 CB's in the league looks like. I genuinely don't think Lindelof gets in there.... but then I also don't think any club would have two players in the top 10 (Maybe Liverpool with VVD and Gomez, though i know a lot don't rate Gomez... or City with Dias and Laporte? but Laporte doesn't even play....)

Thats one of the things. You dont need top 10 defenders to have a top defense right, as shown by City and how they have improved. One great defender is obviously needed, as evidenced by VVD, Dias etc. But not like you need abs best LB/RB etc. My point defensively we have decent LB/RB and Maguire. Now is Maguire good enough to be that top defender? I dont know. But only other place we can really improve is the other defender. And of course general play (higher line etc) and a DM.

 

[mav_9me]

We're in agreement there, he's fairly mehh. I think a lot of people in here, yourself included have gone beyond criticism and entered the realm of abuse.

I haven't see much abuse. Maybe I have missed it.

Tbf I wouldnt blame Lindelof. If he keeps getting played because we dont have an alternative this is on Ole and the club.

 

[golden_blunder]

You will waste your time making a compilation of him. I was backing him even though I knew he isn't good enough but as the team has got better, he has not improved at all.

He cannot win duels, gives away silly fouls all the time, isn't aggressive enough. The West Brom game, I must have shouted LINDELOFFFF at my TV almost every 5 minutes.

The one thing I really hate about Lindelof and Maguire is their passing out the back, yes they can pass it but the amount of time they spend on the ball frustrates me. When there is no pressure they pass to each other take 5 touches and then the opponents press the ball and send it long only for the ball to come back or pass to someone who is being pressed.

Why do they not move the ball quicker? There is a pass available but they make that pass 5 seconds too late.

That does my head in. They invite pressure on themselves and the keeper and then invariably they lose the ball. It’s irritating

 

[golden_blunder]

We're in agreement there, he's fairly mehh. I think a lot of people in here, yourself included have gone beyond criticism and entered the realm of abuse.

Personally I don’t think “he’s a fanny” is that bad. But fair enough I’ll reword it in future.

how about “he’s a coward” or “he plays like a coward”

 

[romufc]

That does my head in. They invite pressure on themselves and the keeper and then invariably they lose the ball. It’s irritating

Its one of the most frustrating things to watch when a player does that. It just puts the receiver under so much pressure where he cannot do anything other than back, which means the opponents start pressing. It happens in each and every single game.

I watch alot of football, I see teams go left to right, right to left but with pace, we let the teams set in and then we wonder why we cannot break low blocks. If you dont shift the teams quick enough, pass the ball with zip, the other team just has to walk into position.

 

[A-man]

What is more strange is the group of United fans who I think probably had the luxury to watch Vidic and Rio play in their lifetime, now are finding so many excuses for Victor Lindelof, asking for proofs and evidence why the guy is an absolute average CB who should be nowhere near Manchester United first team. You can make a compilation of shit defending, howlers and what not from his time here.

How is that strange? The problem with Club Consensus is that none of them can back up their statements. It has been written many times that we concede so many goals and lose so
many points because Lindelof is outmuscled and not fast enough to cover for Maguire. You’d expect someone who make such statements to be able to give at least 7-10 examples from this seasons PL. But nothing.

Club Consensus also seem to have totally missed that our defence have closed the shop totally against the top teams (if Lindelof has played that is).

 

[A-man]

Personally I don’t think “he’s a fanny” is that bad. But fair enough I’ll reword it in future.

how about “he’s a coward” or “he plays like a coward”

Why not use facts instead of your own emotional arguments?

 

[lex talionis]

Lindelof is a more than adequate squad player for us at CB, but we really need Bailly to somehow stay fit or else we will have to spend 50M+ on a CB when we really need to spend a similar sum on a RW and a DM.

 

[AltiUn]

Why not use facts instead of your own emotional arguments?

That's rich.

 

[Raven]

Personally I don’t think “he’s a fanny” is that bad. But fair enough I’ll reword it in future.

how about “he’s a coward” or “he plays like a coward”

I don't mind people saying he's a fanny. But you left this thread a while back because you were called out for liking a very clearly abusive comment, saying you'd return when he fecks up again. Lindelof then gets borderline assaulted and you're straight back in here to blame him.

Like I say, I've been thoroughly unimpressed by him over the last couple of months and right now I think we're best off replacing either himself or Maguire in the first XI. I'm absolutely sick of our players being witch hunted and I'm often called out for being a fanboi because I defend them but it's not true, I just don't like the abuse.

 

[golden_blunder]

Why not use facts instead of your own emotional arguments?

Football is an emotional spectator sport. If the word “fanny” offends you then don’t go to a live match

 

[golden_blunder]

I don't mind people saying he's a fanny. But you left this thread a while back because you were called out for liking a very clearly abusive comment, saying you'd return when he fecks up again. Lindelof then gets borderline assaulted and you're straight back in here to blame him.

Like I say, I've been thoroughly unimpressed by him over the last couple of months and right now I think we're best off replacing either himself or Maguire in the first XI. I'm absolutely sick of our players being witch hunted and I'm often called out for being a fanboi because I defend them but it's not true, I just don't like the abuse.

But how is that abuse? I’ve done no worse in this thread than call him a fanny or maybe even call him “fecking shit” because I think he is, he’s just not at the level we should be accepting. That’s the bottom line.

however I have a chorus of cheer leaders led by a swede defending him. I get it, I used to defend Evans as I’m from NI but at some point you need to admit you’re wrong.

by coming back into this thread I was making a point how often his questionable defending is an issue

i would love nothing more than to come in and give a glowing report every match but I just don’t think he’s good enough and that’s my bottom line. We should have bought Diaz if we were shopping in Portugal

 

[Adnan]

But how is that abuse? I’ve done no worse in this thread than call him a fanny or maybe even call him “fecking shit” because I think he is, he’s just not at the level we should be accepting. That’s the bottom line.

however I have a chorus of cheer leaders led by a swede defending him. I get it, I used to defend Evans as I’m from NI but at some point you need to admit you’re wrong.

by coming back into this thread I was making a point how often his questionable defending is an issue

i would love nothing more than to come in and give a glowing report every match but I just don’t think he’s good enough and that’s my bottom line. We should have bought Diaz if we were shopping in Portugal

I actually remember you wanting Dias when he was at Benfica, so credit to you on getting that one spot on.

 

[golden_blunder]

I actually remember you wanting Dias when he was at Benfica, so credit to you on getting that one spot on.

Believe me, I’d rather be wrong!

 

[DannyCAFC]

Konate. Next?

they don’t have to be perfect they just have to be an upgrade on lindelof, which is not a high bar.

A guy who has played 23% of all minutes for Leipzig since the start of last season, in a less physical league and with a less demanding schedule to boot.

Hardly an upgrade if he doesn't manage to even take his place on the teamsheet because he's on the treatment table.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

A guy who has played 23% of all minutes for Leipzig since the start of last season, in a less physical league and with a less demanding schedule to boot.

Hardly an upgrade if he doesn't manage to even take his place on the teamsheet because he's on the treatment table.

bloody hell.

no thanks. We don’t need anymore CB crocks. We might have got rid of Rojo, but still have Jones and Bailly on our books.

 

[Caesar2290]

The amount of abuse the man gets here, Jesus Christ! You'd think he scores own goals on purpose every week.

We all know Lindelof's weaknesses, but one of the things nobody mentions is that he's not a good partner for Maguire. Their defending "style" is too similar. They're not proactive enough. This is why when Maguire plays alongside Bailly he looks like an instant improvement. This also the reason when Lindelof was paired with Tuanzebe or Bailly he looked more assured. Defending is about partnerships, and the Maguire-Lindelof partnership isn't working.

Another factor to take into consideration, especially after tonight is the GK. A good GK will improve his defense by alleviating the pressure and coming for crosses. I assure you that if Deano was in the net against WBA, we wouldn't even have this discussion because he would claim the ball. A good GK also organizes the defense better, something that DDG hasn't been doing.

What is more strange is the group of United fans who I think probably had the luxury to watch Vidic and Rio play in their lifetime, now are finding so many excuses for Victor Lindelof, asking for proofs and evidence why the guy is an absolute average CB who should be nowhere near Manchester United first team. You can make a compilation of shit defending, howlers and what not from his time here.

I actually watched both play. I also watched Rio before Vidic's arrival. I can tell you for a fact that pre-Vidic Rio was a totally different player. Constant brainfarts, caught out of position, silly mistakes, concentration lapses. If that version of Rio was playing for the current United side in 2021 he would be crucified on the caf.

The Vidic-Rio partnership also gave me a glimpse of how partnerships can actually make a good player better. I remember the Rio-Silvestre or Rio-Brown partnerships. Complete shitshows. I also remember the Rio-Evans partnership. Also didn't work out. Ironically the Vidic-Evans partnership was pretty good. It was the one that played most of the games during our World Record 2008-2009 run when we haven't conceded for like 15 matches in a row.

Not comparing Lindelof to those 2, but let's not pretend that Rio was this insance CB that never made any mistakes. Plus he had VDS as his GK, and who do Lindelof and Maguire have? A GK that will wait for hell to freeze over before coming for a cross.

Coady, Keane, Dunk, Soyuncu, Tarkowski, Mings, Fofana would all easily be better.

Ah, the good old grass is always greener on the other side. How many times have we seen a player pulling up trees at a midtable club, only to become completely anonymous once he moved to United? There is a difference between playing a safe environment with low expectations and playing for Manchester United. The pressure is huge here. Some players can't handle it. It's not just about ability.

Also surprised you left out Evans. A lot of Leicester fans claimed he was better of 2 when we bought Maguire.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Also surprised you left out Evans. A lot of Leicester fans claimed he was better of 2 when we bought Maguire.

I don’t rate Evans and didn’t when he was here too. Leicester fans said that as they were still crying about losing him.

Not really buying the grass is greener thing, plenty of players move from lower to higher clubs and play just as well.

 

[He'sRaldo]

Seems the Lindelof fans are melting down in both Maguire and Bailly's threads?

I don't really understand the attraction to such an average player.

 

[Caesar2290]

Seems the Lindelof fans are melting down in both Maguire and Bailly's threads?

I don't really understand the attraction to such an average player.

Maybe because we have yet to concede 6 in a match when he played?

 

[Adnan]

Maybe because we have yet to concede 6 in a match when he played?

It's very difficult to concede 6 when we're defending with 6.

 

[Caesar2290]

It's very difficult to concede 6 when we're defending with 6.

Yeah because every match Lindelof plays we're defending with 6, right?

 

[Adnan]

Yeah because every match Lindelof plays we're defending with 6, right?

We could play Will Fish from the academy and we wouldn't defend with 6 in every game.

 

[A-man]

It's very difficult to concede 6 when we're defending with 6.

I think we all know this is not true. We have played much more attacking football with Lindelof.

Look at PL: We have scored 40 goals in 16 matches with Lindelof as CB and 9 in 6 matches with Bailly.

The defensive matches with Lindelof have been against the top teams where we have kept clean sheets. Bailly doesn’t play many matches vs top teams (only Spurs and Leicester this season, 3 goals scored and 8 conceded in those two matches).

 

[Adnan]

I think we all know this is not true. We have played much more attacking football with Lindelof.

Look at PL: We have scored 40 goals in 16 matches with Lindelof as CB and 9 in 6 matches with Bailly.

The defensive matches with Lindelof have been against the top teams where we have kept clean sheets. Bailly doesn’t play many matches vs top teams (only Spurs and Leicester this season, 3 goals scored and 8 conceded in those two matches).

The poster I was replying to brought up the Spurs game and in that game Solksjaer decided to sacrifice defensive stability for goals hence setting up to take the game to the opposition in a very attack minded manner. But sadly for us things went wrong positionally and with Martial getting sent off which contributed to the goals conceded column.

Our goals scored column is mainly down to our attack which consists of several players with a huge goal threat, and it was also helped by Southampton's injury ravaged team that played most of the game with 10 men hence we scored 9. I have no doubt we'd score plenty of goals with Bailly as a starter but to do that he has to stay fit for a period of time which hasn't been the case. I still want a new CB though.

 

[Kostov]

I actually watched both play. I also watched Rio before Vidic's arrival. I can tell you for a fact that pre-Vidic Rio was a totally different player. Constant brainfarts, caught out of position, silly mistakes, concentration lapses. If that version of Rio was playing for the current United side in 2021 he would be crucified on the caf.

The Vidic-Rio partnership also gave me a glimpse of how partnerships can actually make a good player better. I remember the Rio-Silvestre or Rio-Brown partnerships. Complete shitshows. I also remember the Rio-Evans partnership. Also didn't work out. Ironically the Vidic-Evans partnership was pretty good. It was the one that played most of the games during our World Record 2008-2009 run when we haven't conceded for like 15 matches in a row.

Not comparing Lindelof to those 2, but let's not pretend that Rio was this insance CB that never made any mistakes. Plus he had VDS as his GK, and who do Lindelof and Maguire have? A GK that will wait for hell to freeze over before coming for a cross.

And that right there is missing the point completely.

Every CB like every player in a starting line up will make mistakes, VVD does, so did Rio, so did Vidic. However what they bring or used to bring to the table was blatantly obvious and benefiting to the team. Of course that a partnership can be a shitshow when one of the guys is Silvestre, and yes probably Rio would have been criticized like Rashford is sometimes criticized on here, but as I already pointed out, it was blatantly obvious what this guy is capable if paired with a decent partner.

And that last part when you compare VDS to DDG, it's a fine point and maybe if Lindelof was actually bringing something to the table relevant, as it stands DDG is a much better GK than Lindelof a CB, and the weakest link is blatant to see.

 

[A-man]

The poster I was replying to brought up the Spurs game and in that game Solksjaer decided to sacrifice defensive stability for goals hence setting up to take the game to the opposition in a very attack minded manner. But sadly for us things went wrong positionally and with Martial getting sent off which contributed to the goals conceded column.

Our goals scored column is mainly down to our attack which consists of several players with a huge goal threat, and it was also helped by Southampton's injury ravaged team that played most of the game with 10 men hence we scored 9. I have no doubt we'd score plenty of goals with Bailly as a starter but to do that he has to stay fit for a period of time which hasn't been the case. I still want a new CB though.

To be honest I don’t think the idea that Ole seemed to have that Bailly fits well for teams where we dominate and Lindelof in the bigger games, is so bad. Then they can share the bulk of the average games.

Lindelof is very disciplined and effective in well organised defences, and it seems as he is the one who organises it. His best matches have been against the best teams, just like previous seasons. Then I would like Ole to rest Maguire sometimes as well. It went well against PSG without him. He is our best defender but we can really manage without him sometimes as well.