That's a fair assessment mate, can't really disagree with too much here.
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Would be good for Lindelof’s back and Baillys overall fitness , both might need extra recovery.
Agreed.
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Agreed really wish more of our fans would have as balanced a view as this.
The reason I brought up the Spurs game was because most of the goals we conceded were down to individual errors by both Maguire and Bailly. It's not about the system, if your CBs can't do elementary defending. This simply goes against the narrative on this thread where Lindelof bad, Maguire and Bailly good.
The truth is that all of our CBs have weaknesses, every single one. But one constant among all of them is DDG. The moment a competent keeper steps up and takes his place is the moment 50% of our CBs weaknesses are going to vanish. Now that doesn't mean that Lindelof is going to turn into prime Vidic, but he sure is hell is going to be look more competent.
I agree with most of your post except your bolded part. A good GK will improve any defense. A bad one will make an average one worse. If we're talking about VDS you should remember that when he arrived in 2005 our defense changed. Suddenly Silvestre and Brown looked way more competent than they used to. Our typical comical defending vanished over night. That is the influence of a competent keeper on a defense. Hendo reminded us of this last night.
Also not sure if you remember but the moment DDG became our GK our defending went to complete shit. At the time people blamed it on Rio and Vidic getting old, but it's not a coincidence that since VDS retired we haven't had a single competent defender. Evans, Jones, Rojo, Blind, Lindelof, Bailly, Maguire. We blamed it on all of them being shit or poor coaching, despite overlooking one glaring yet simple truth: DDG is stealing a living by being the highest paid player in the PL while our CBs take the blame for his incompetence.
Agreed.
DDG is a goal keeper that has a style of playing that makes him shine, but doesn't really help the defence. He is the best shot stopper of all time imo, but non-existing in the box, non-commanding, no leaderships skills. At his peak, he saved us many times, but many of those saves wouldn't have been necessary if he had been more active in the first place.
I remember one of his best seasons when Smalling, Lindelof and Jones paired up as CBs. DDG made an increadible amount of super saves. Then there was Ederson at City, who conceded just as few goals but withpout the saves. Everybody said DDG was superior, Ederson played in a strong team and didn't need to do any saves, etc. But fact is, Ederson made 40 sweepers clearances that season. That's more than one per game and most of them would have resulted in a 1v1 with the goalkeeper. To me, the difference was obvious and I could see why none of the big, dominant teams playing a high line were interested in DDG.
(Edit: DDG made 6 sweepers clearances as comparison)
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Once we buy a good cb to compliment maguire properly in the summer then both can have as much rest as they want
Where do you get this stat from?
This is the official PL stats from the PL web page:
https://www.premierleague.com/players/12707/Ederson/stats?co=1&se=79
https://www.premierleague.com/players/4330/David-de-Gea/stats?co=1&se=79
I think that this is our most urgent position to remedy. We really need a proper CB next to Maguire.
For me too. Though I have to say I love forwards and if it meant getting Haaland I’d sink all our money in an instant to that and suffer the mental torture that these 2 jokers give me for another season
Haha a forward would be nice but I can't take another year of watching our "defence".
DDG has been much more than a competent GK for years for us, is disgraceful to spout shit like that because your memory is only dated for the last 3 years. DDG basically carried our defense for years and let's not talk shit now when he has obviously declined but is yet a solid player unlike some other members of our starting 11.
We haven't had a single competent defender because the club has been run by morons for years after Fergie, blaming that on DDG is absolutely shameful and laughable. And why put Maguire in the same bracket as Lindelof, one is obviously having his uses, the other you would struggle to point out what he brings to the table that any semi average 2 legged PL CB would not.
Carried is a relative term. Did he produce world class saves on a consistent basis? Yes. Did he contribute with anything else besides that? No
The man is timid, doesn't command or organize his defense, his distribution has been lacking, he can't save a penalty if his life depended on it and don't get me started on the crosses. But hey ho, he made some insane saves so we can ignore all of the above. And while we're at it let's also ignore the fact that he was never able to establish himself as Spain's No.1 GK despite Casillas being out of the picture for more than half a decade now.
I remember how fans used to say that if it weren't for De Gea's saves, we would have finished a couple of places below. But there was minority who simply asked would he have to make even half those saves if he was a good all round GK. After last night you probably got an indication that saves aren't the end all be all for GK, just like tackles aren't the best form of defending. Look flashy though!
In moments like these I understand why City are light years ahead of us in planning. They had a similar situation with Given, a gifted shot stopper, but lacking in every other department. And did they do? They moved him on the moment a more rounded Hart became available. As a result their team improved significantly, especially at the back.
Regards to Lindelof, if he was as bad as you claim that he is, would he be our mainstay CB under both Jose and Ole? Ole had to chose between him and Smalling. And Smalling went out the door. Lindelof clearly knows what he is doing, otherwise he wouldn't be playing. He also wouldn't be able to keep people like Vardy and Aubamayang quiet for whole games if he was a waste of space. Now I get it when you don't like a certain player, but don't let the bias cloud your judgement. Lindelof isn't perfect as I said before, but the amount of abuse he gets is just mind boggling.
How did you get that impression?
He does seem to point and talk more than the others, telling them where they should be. No idea if he is doing it well, but it seems like he's trying. It's not something I notice Maguire doing all that often except in set pieces, although I will admit I haven't taken much notice of so perhaps I've just missed it.
It could also just be because he's playing next to AWB though, as he does seem to need a fair bit of direction and most of Lindelof's talking is towards him.
he played with a world class pointer in Lukaku, that’s probably where he picked it up from.
Only by observation and obviously nothing I can be sure of. The matches I was talking about are when we face the top teams with top attack like City, PSG and Liverpool.
Oh he’s good at telling people what to do. It’s a shame he can’t point and talk to himself
I've also seen him tell people to do something, they do it, while he doesn't do anything and when we concede he'll walk away silent with nothing to say. He doesn't inspire me at all if we're talking about organisation, being vocal and a leader. It's funny because to me this is exactly what we lack. He is a very passive player and talk can only get you so far.
We all know you guys think he’s useless. But we have played very organised and disciplined against the top teams this season (when be has played.)
You don't get to play at his level at Portugal and for his national team if you are a Sunday pub team player. Is he good enough for a club that wants to win the PL and the CL?
I don't think so and for me neither is Maguire nor Bailly.
I don't think so and for me neither is Maguire nor Bailly.
Weird anecdote. Was he in a position to do something? Was he at fault? Was the player he directed at fault? Was the player he directed at fault because he did as told? Without context, it's literally meaningless.
He's been pretty vocal throughout his time here, and his teammates seem to listen to him for the most part, so they clearly trust his judgement.
On the Caf, you're either good or you're shit.
I've seen him point at Wan Bissaka to move in a direction while he himself subsequently let a man in behind him who then scored. I can't remember anything else so you are quite right about the meaningless bit. It was just a bit of play that stuck in my head when I think about him telling people how to position themselves. It was a case study of how you should care about getting yourself right before you go telling others how to play.
Organising a defense isn't telling others how to play, but I guess you had to frame it like that to turn Lindelöf doing a bit of it into something negative.
Man Utd 3:1 Newcastle
Tonight was such a Lindelof game, inoffensively there, but if you try to pinpoint what he contributed in a positive or negative fashion little stands out.
Cash in while he's worth something.
Remember when Barcelona reportedly wanted him? That would've been funny.
He has some special skill of being exactly where the ball isn't at set pieces. Maguire will get his head on the ball 4-5 times a game in both boxes, we never see Lindelof ever making a clearance or winning a header from an attacking corner.
A nothing defender which is a tough feat to accomplish.
Is he wanted by anyone?
Great pace shown against almiron, great to have a CB you can rely on 1v1 especially when pushed up high.
Apparently, if he forces him to cut back and someone else tackles them, it's fantastic defending.
Sick of watching him clip an aimless long ball forward to nobody.
He does it so fecking often.
He does it so fecking often.
In true Lindelof style, sure!
I think there was a bit of hands on from Lindelof, or Almiron would have done him for pace.
Doublethink in full force.
We managed to ship Rojo, with Lindelof should be easier.
The real problem is Ole got only two injury free defenders in the club, so we must stick to them.
Lindelof against Newcastle
0 Duels attempted
0 Aerials duels attempted
0 tackles attempted
0 interceptions
3 clearances
3 recoveries
0 blocks
For Maguire
12 duels attempted
6/6 aerial duels won
2 tackles attempted
1 interception
3 clearances
11 recoveries
1 block
One man defence.
0 Duels attempted
0 Aerials duels attempted
0 tackles attempted
0 interceptions
3 clearances
3 recoveries
0 blocks
For Maguire
12 duels attempted
6/6 aerial duels won
2 tackles attempted
1 interception
3 clearances
11 recoveries
1 block
One man defence.
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