[Ekeke]

A big part of the chances created is the midfield & wings.
In our case we have no midfielders who can do the defensive job to soften the strain on our defense. Everyone wanted a DM this summer for a reason.
Now, arguing that Lindelöf isn't very good is fine (and I'd agree with it as well). The argument that chances against from a statistical standpoint of 2 great chances against each game proves our defense is crap is simplifying and looking too hard at the statistic without taking context into consideration.

If we had a proper defensive midfielder either cleaning up counters or shielding our defense then Lindelöf might be good enough while we address other areas of the squad. We don't, so people will rightly look at Lindelöf's lack of defensive qualities and our midfielders lack of it as well instead of thinking that the problem lies in our terrible recruitment over the years.

I do completely agree that defending is a team job not just a CB job. And I knew going into this season our defense would be more exposed without Ander in front of them. AWB is a bonus at right back instead of players like Young. But its not the same thing as having a proper ball winning DM.

I agree that our recruitment has been really bad for what we've spent

 

[Foxbatt]

Of course it has been bad. Weak in the air is something the coaching staff needs to get it right. He is not a small player and with the right coaching he should improve his heading. As others have said we do not have a covering or a defensive midfield player who can help with the defense. What is the purpose of a ball playing defender if the only thing he can do is to pass to Pogba?

 

[Adnan]

Of course it has been bad. Weak in the air is something the coaching staff needs to get it right. He is not a small player and with the right coaching he should improve his heading. As others have said we do not have a covering or a defensive midfield player who can help with the defense. What is the purpose of a ball playing defender if the only thing he can do is to pass to Pogba?

A ball playing CB can pass to both fullbacks long or short. All the attacking players are also options. So there's more than just Pogba to pass it to..

 

[Bestietom]

We had neither of the so called holding midfielders in place for Ayew to just run through on goal after Lindelof losing that Heading duel. Pogba or McTominay are NOT DM. We seriously need to address this with Matic coming back into the side at least until January when we hopefully bring in a Couple of Midfielders.

 

[Lentwood]

We had neither of the so called holding midfielders in place for Ayew to just run through on goal after Lindelof losing that Heading duel. Pogba or McTominay are NOT DM. We seriously need to address this with Matic coming back into the side at least until January when we hopefully bring in a Couple of Midfielders.

A DM wouldn’t be expected to run back past the CB with a player from a routine punt downfield like that

Lindelof was beaten far to easily in the air and Maguire didn’t cover - simple as that

This is my worry with Lindelof. I just believe he has too many physical weaknesses to ever be a top PL CB

 

[golden_blunder]

A DM wouldn’t be expected to run back past the CB with a player from a routine punt downfield like that

Lindelof was beaten far to easily in the air and Maguire didn’t cover - simple as that

This is my worry with Lindelof. I just believe he has too many physical weaknesses to ever be a top PL CB

That’s where I’m at

 

[Foxbatt]

A ball playing CB can pass to both fullbacks long or short. All the attacking players are also options. So there's more than just Pogba to pass it to..

Isn't that the problem we have? All he can do is hit a long ball and with the opposing defence so compact and none of our strikers being good headers of the ball and none of them hold the ball up we obviously lose possession and they come back with us immediately. Yes he can pass to Maguire and DeGea and a short pass to AWB and get it back and pass to Maguire and Degea again. So what does it do? If he pass to Scott, he cannot do anything apart from pass to Pogba. So Lindelof may as well pass to Pogba too.

 

[Adnan]

Isn't that the problem we have? All he can do is hit a long ball and with the opposing defence so compact and none of our strikers being good headers of the ball and none of them hold the ball up we obviously lose possession and they come back with us immediately. Yes he can pass to Maguire and DeGea and a short pass to AWB and get it back and pass to Maguire and Degea again. So what does it do? If he pass to Scott, he cannot do anything apart from pass to Pogba. So Lindelof may as well pass to Pogba too.

We're obviously struggling to break down teams who defend in numbers. But there's been many instances in the past year where there's been ample opportunities to pass through the lines due to the opposition committing men forward and leaving space for the likes of Rashford, Martial etc. Maguire played two long passes to Shaw against Palace for instance which didn't come off. With our midfield relying so heavily on Pogba to provide the creativity I think it would be beneficial if our CBs take the initiative and try and break lines instead of just pass it to Pogba like you suggested.

 

[A-man]

We're obviously struggling to break down teams who defend in numbers. But there's been many instances in the past year where there's been ample opportunities to pass through the lines due to the opposition committing men forward and leaving space for the likes of Rashford, Martial etc. Maguire played two long passes to Shaw against Palace for instance which didn't come off. With our midfield relying so heavily on Pogba to provide the creativity I think it would be beneficial if our CBs take the initiative and try and break lines instead of just pass it to Pogba like you suggested.

I agree, and would prefer playing through line more often rather than long balls as they are often inaccurate and seldom create anything more than loss of possesion. Both Lindelof and Maguore are good at driving the ball up the pitch and would like to see that more as well. Maguire has done it a few times but seem to stop because he doesn't find any midfielder and the momentum is lost.

 

[Adnan]

I agree, and would prefer playing through line more often rather than long balls as they are often inaccurate and seldom create anything more than loss of possesion. Both Lindelof and Maguore are good at driving the ball up the pitch and would like to see that more as well. Maguire has done it a few times but seem to stop because he doesn't find any midfielder and the momentum is lost.

The midfield is the big issue for us with teams sitting back and ceding possession. We really shouldn't be asking the CBs to break lines against the so called cannon fodder, but sadly our midfield is such a state right now that teams just let us have possession and control the game without the ball. Playing against us right now is simple, stay tight on Pogba and the rest will be dealt with comfortably.

Ole needs to come up with a solution from within the squad IMO. We can't just control possession without penetration in midfield. McTominay and Lingard shouldn't be in the same line up because it's playing into the hands of the low block school of thought. One of them has to be dropped and I'd drop Lingard for Gomes in a heart beat. Matic isn't the flavour of the month right now (I've even been very critical of him) but even he needs to be given another opportunity as things stand. I also suspect Jimmy Garner might have to be introduced in a two man midfield at some point to provide some class/guile and vision from a deeper role.

With Herrera not being replaced, we find our midfield to be in a bigger mire than it was before. This could end up being disastrous or it could be the making (Gomes, Garner) of two highly rated teenagers who IMO can't do any worse than Lingard and McTominay.

Sorry for going off topic fellas..

 

[Foxbatt]

We're obviously struggling to break down teams who defend in numbers. But there's been many instances in the past year where there's been ample opportunities to pass through the lines due to the opposition committing men forward and leaving space for the likes of Rashford, Martial etc. Maguire played two long passes to Shaw against Palace for instance which didn't come off. With our midfield relying so heavily on Pogba to provide the creativity I think it would be beneficial if our CBs take the initiative and try and break lines instead of just pass it to Pogba like you suggested.

I didn't suggest he pass to Pogba all the time. When teams like Palace crowd the space CBs can only do is hit long pass and none of our forward can head the ball and beat their CBs. Plus they do not have the guile to double up on one defender like they did to us. They also do not play a highline.
This is not to say that Lindelof is not weak in the air. I entirely agree with your last post and is spot on why we are so terrible. The other point I want to make is that two midfield players is not going to over power anyone especially with teams that outnumber is in midfield. We do not have a Roy Keane and a Paul Scholes in midfield. Neither do we have a Ronaldo or a Rooney up front for Ole to think this is going to work.

 

[Adnan]

I didn't suggest he pass to Pogba all the time. When teams like Palace crowd the space CBs can only do is hit long pass and none of our forward can head the ball and beat their CBs. Plus they do not have the guile to double up on one defender like they did to us. They also do not play a highline.
This is not to say that Lindelof is not weak in the air. I entirely agree with your last post and is spot on why we are so terrible. The other point I want to make is that two midfield players is not going to over power anyone especially with teams that outnumber is in midfield. We do not have a Roy Keane and a Paul Scholes in midfield. Neither do we have a Ronaldo or a Rooney up front for Ole to think this is going to work.

The issue is, we have a midfielder and a #10 (McTominay and Lingard) currently starting games for us who just aren't good enough. McTominay wasn't anything more than average coming through the ranks but is starting games for us. Lingard was above average coming through but is tasked with being Manchester United's starting #10. Keane and Scholes were great players and the aforementioned shouldn't even be in the same sentence.

What we could do is replace the likes of Lingard and McTominay from within the squad options, by players I mentioned in my previous post. Both Gomes and Garner have shown a level coming through the ranks that far exceeded what we saw from Lingard and McTominay in comparison.

Thread derailed. Please respond in a different thread if you have to please..

 

[Mcking]

Isn't that the problem we have? All he can do is hit a long ball and with the opposing defence so compact and none of our strikers being good headers of the ball and none of them hold the ball up we obviously lose possession and they come back with us immediately. Yes he can pass to Maguire and DeGea and a short pass to AWB and get it back and pass to Maguire and Degea again. So what does it do? If he pass to Scott, he cannot do anything apart from pass to Pogba. So Lindelof may as well pass to Pogba too.

Maguire had no problems passing long to Rashford and Shaw. Lindelof passes short because the opposing FBs intercept the ball everytime he gets it off the ground, deep defence or not.

 

[Ekeke]

Isn't that the problem we have? All he can do is hit a long ball and with the opposing defence so compact and none of our strikers being good headers of the ball and none of them hold the ball up we obviously lose possession and they come back with us immediately. Yes he can pass to Maguire and DeGea and a short pass to AWB and get it back and pass to Maguire and Degea again. So what does it do? If he pass to Scott, he cannot do anything apart from pass to Pogba. So Lindelof may as well pass to Pogba too.

You dont need to play a long pass in the air. You can play it to feet or for them to run onto. That solves everything you just described because Martial has good control and can run in behind the defense, as can Rashford. Lingard and the rest are giving options deeper. James is lightning down the right if he plays him in.

Our CBs have a wealth of options to pass the ball and make progress. Lindelof chooses to be safe with it and play basic passes and when he goes long his passes are inaccurate and the opposition's defense easily deals with it. What did Daley Blind have in front of him that was a million times better than we have now, under LVG? Yet he was one of the best CBs in the league at passing it out. Because he's actually a creative passer who looks for openings. Lindelof doesnt

 

[tomaldinho1]

You dont need to play a long pass in the air. You can play it to feet or for them to run onto. That solves everything you just described because Martial has good control and can run in behind the defense, as can Rashford. Lingard and the rest are giving options deeper. James is lightning down the right if he plays him in.

Our CBs have a wealth of options to pass the ball and make progress. Lindelof chooses to be safe with it and play basic passes and when he goes long his passes are inaccurate and the opposition's defense easily deals with it. What did Daley Blind have in front of him that was a million times better than we have now, under LVG? Yet he was one of the best CBs in the league at passing it out. Because he's actually a creative passer who looks for openings. Lindelof doesnt

I don't think that's fair on him, I'd say him and Maguire are about the same level technically (they're both above average but nothing amazing, just one is English and 'ball playing defender' is a buzzword) - worth noting Maguire's long range passing has been pretty hit and miss in the short time he's been with us so if you're criticising one, it's only fair to criticise both on this front.

Midfield is and has been the biggest issue for me. Problem for us is we're so predictable in attack, not that the CBs can't play the passes because I think they both can. As a team we must be one of the worst in the league at playing between the lines to build attacks, everything we do is either a long ball or worked down the left wing, now at least James gives a bit of threat on the right but it's not enough. We need a DM who is comfortable/good enough to sit on his own because currently Pogba and McT deep means there's a huge gap ahead of them where Lingard seems to just hover and do little else. If, this is purely for explanations sake, we signed Kante it would allow Pogba and McT to sit higher and therefore receive the ball in more advanced areas of the pitch, as it stands they receive a short pass from the CBs and, if they can turn, they're rarely in a position to create anything other than a long ball over the top or trying to work it wide.

 

[A-man]

Maguire had no problems passing long to Rashford and Shaw. Lindelof passes short because the opposing FBs intercept the ball everytime he gets it off the ground, deep defence or not.

It's not really true. Maguire tried a little but it is hard when they face compact midfield. More or less all his long balls were pointless or loss of possession. I like it better when he tries to dribble or run through.

 

[Mcking]

It's not really true. Maguire tried a little but it is hard when they face compact midfield. More or less all his long balls were pointless or loss of possession. I like it better when he tries to dribble or run through.

Maguire played a few longs passes out to the left wing against Palace, and they weren't pointless.

 

[Ekeke]

I don't think that's fair on him, I'd say him and Maguire are about the same level technically (they're both above average but nothing amazing, just one is English and 'ball playing defender' is a buzzword) - worth noting Maguire's long range passing has been pretty hit and miss in the short time he's been with us so if you're criticising one, it's only fair to criticise both on this front.

Midfield is and has been the biggest issue for me. Problem for us is we're so predictable in attack, not that the CBs can't play the passes because I think they both can. As a team we must be one of the worst in the league at playing between the lines to build attacks, everything we do is either a long ball or worked down the left wing, now at least James gives a bit of threat on the right but it's not enough. We need a DM who is comfortable/good enough to sit on his own because currently Pogba and McT deep means there's a huge gap ahead of them where Lingard seems to just hover and do little else. If, this is purely for explanations sake, we signed Kante it would allow Pogba and McT to sit higher and therefore receive the ball in more advanced areas of the pitch, as it stands they receive a short pass from the CBs and, if they can turn, they're rarely in a position to create anything other than a long ball over the top or trying to work it wide.

Maguire has proven at leicester that he can create with his passes. Lindelof hasnt

 

[SaintMuppet]

We had neither of the so called holding midfielders in place for Ayew to just run through on goal after Lindelof losing that Heading duel. Pogba or McTominay are NOT DM. We seriously need to address this with Matic coming back into the side at least until January when we hopefully bring in a Couple of Midfielders.

We are not bringing in a couple of midfielders in January! I keep hearing this but it’s fantasy and wishful thinking. We had a whole summer to do this and we never looked close to doing it.

The owners have tightened the reins and we are no longer spending. We are now effectively a youth team who will be lucky to get Top 10.

The glory days died with Fergie and have been buried by the Glazers. Until they are gone we are fecked.

 

[A-man]

Maguire played a few longs passes out to the left wing against Palace, and they weren't pointless.

I didn't think they were worth the risk of losing the ball as a few of them went over the line. But of course we can have different definitions of what pointless is. It offers some variation.

 

[Mcking]

I didn't think they were worth the risk of losing the ball as a few of them went over the line. But of course we can have different definitions of what pointless is. It offers some variation.

He didn't complete all of his attempted forward passes, but more often than not, he successfully advanced play. Lindelof on the other hand receives the ball and passes to Maguire or AWB, rinse and repeat. That's pointless passing.

 

[criticalanalysis]

I don't think that's fair on him, I'd say him and Maguire are about the same level technically (they're both above average but nothing amazing, just one is English and 'ball playing defender' is a buzzword) - worth noting Maguire's long range passing has been pretty hit and miss in the short time he's been with us so if you're criticising one, it's only fair to criticise both on this front.

Midfield is and has been the biggest issue for me. Problem for us is we're so predictable in attack, not that the CBs can't play the passes because I think they both can. As a team we must be one of the worst in the league at playing between the lines to build attacks, everything we do is either a long ball or worked down the left wing, now at least James gives a bit of threat on the right but it's not enough. We need a DM who is comfortable/good enough to sit on his own because currently Pogba and McT deep means there's a huge gap ahead of them where Lingard seems to just hover and do little else. If, this is purely for explanations sake, we signed Kante it would allow Pogba and McT to sit higher and therefore receive the ball in more advanced areas of the pitch, as it stands they receive a short pass from the CBs and, if they can turn, they're rarely in a position to create anything other than a long ball over the top or trying to work it wide.

Don't disagree with the rest of your post and many other's view in that it is a team and therefore fundamental issue with regards to breaking teams down. However, Maguire has definitely shown more in these three games that he is far superior to Lindelof in every aspect including ball playing.

Lindelof looks tidy and may be technically sound but if he is not applying that in a game, then his passing will forever be a nicer looking Smalling. That's to say,it's safe and by default a net negative because you are only as good as the weakest link.

As centre backs, if the opposition forwards are sitting off and you have most of the ball as a team with it also being mostly in front of you, it is almost criminal to be playing only square balls and nothing penetrative.

 

[A-man]

He didn't complete all of his attempted forward passes, but more often than not, he successfully advanced play. Lindelof on the other hand receives the ball and passes to Maguire or AWB, rinse and repeat. That's pointless passing.

I dont think you understand me. I appreciate the variation that Maguires long balls offer, just that I think most of them were pointless. That is not his fault. There is hardly any movement at all in the midfield. Also many of the long balls were to the FB and a moment later they were back again. Lindelof had some similar down his wing but he hit them along the ground instead. Very useful against teams who press but nothing really happens when opposite team sit back and fill the midfield with players.

I would like both CBs to play through the line more and also longer passes through the line and to dribble more often. That is riskier than hit long balls in the sense that of counter attack but more beneficial. Then they can hit occasional long balls when they see an opportunity but not just because they are frustrated. The midfield must move better

 

[tomaldinho1]

Don't disagree with the rest of your post and many other's view in that it is a team and therefore fundamental issue with regards to breaking teams down. However, Maguire has definitely shown more in these three games that he is far superior to Lindelof in every aspect including ball playing.

Lindelof looks tidy and may be technically sound but if he is not applying that in a game, then his passing will forever be a nicer looking Smalling. That's to say,it's safe and by default a net negative because you are only as good as the weakest link.

As centre backs, if the opposition forwards are sitting off and you have most of the ball as a team with it also being mostly in front of you, it is almost criminal to be playing only square balls and nothing penetrative.

He's definitely better in other aspects but as for ball playing, I'm yet to be convinced he's much different to Lindelof but here's to hoping. On the penetrative piece, I don't think that's a CB issue - both Lindelof and Maguire are capable of making those types of passes, I'd say the majority of top CBs are, but they have to have options. It's no good zinging one into Lingard's feet when he's marked and McT and Pog usually operate too deep so any pass to them seems 'simple' or 'safe'. That leaves long balls which are pretty easy to deal with for any decent defence (save ours vs Palace with the ridiculous goal that prompted all this debate) or working it wide where we always come up against the issue that we don't have natural wingers and so the ball usually gets lost or recycled back to a non threatening position and the opposition have plenty of time to get into their defensive shape.

Maguire has proven at leicester that he can create with his passes. Lindelof hasnt

And Sanchez was incredible for Arsenal. If you read my post, my main point is that I think even if we had 2 Rio Ferdinand's at the back, they'd be so limited in where they can pass forward maybe some fans would think they weren't great passers as well. If you ever sit in a stadium high up behind a goal, you get an interesting view of the passing lanes coming out from CB - I'd be keen to see how we compare to other teams because I'd bet our CMs pick up the ball way deeper than any other top 6 team and in far less dangerous positions.

As for Maguire, we've played so few games I'm yet to really see what he can do but I don't think his Leicester form is relevant given we have a very different midfield setup to them.

 

[Ekeke]

He's definitely better in other aspects but as for ball playing, I'm yet to be convinced he's much different to Lindelof but here's to hoping. On the penetrative piece, I don't think that's a CB issue - both Lindelof and Maguire are capable of making those types of passes, I'd say the majority of top CBs are, but they have to have options. It's no good zinging one into Lingard's feet when he's marked and McT and Pog usually operate too deep so any pass to them seems 'simple' or 'safe'. That leaves long balls which are pretty easy to deal with for any decent defence (save ours vs Palace with the ridiculous goal that prompted all this debate) or working it wide where we always come up against the issue that we don't have natural wingers and so the ball usually gets lost or recycled back to a non threatening position and the opposition have plenty of time to get into their defensive shape.



And Sanchez was incredible for Arsenal. If you read my post, my main point is that I think even if we had 2 Rio Ferdinand's at the back, they'd be so limited in where they can pass forward maybe some fans would think they weren't great passers as well. If you ever sit in a stadium high up behind a goal, you get an interesting view of the passing lanes coming out from CB - I'd be keen to see how we compare to other teams because I'd bet our CMs pick up the ball way deeper than any other top 6 team and in far less dangerous positions.

As for Maguire, we've played so few games I'm yet to really see what he can do but I don't think his Leicester form is relevant given we have a very different midfield setup to them.

The caf consensus was that our midfield drop that deep because of Chris Smalling. He's not playing.

 

[R.N7]

Never before has a lost header near the middle of the pitch created such hysteria.

 

[Offsideagain]

I still think Lindelöf is a good footballer but in the wrong position. Having said that, I’m not sure if he could be a holding midfielder or not as he doesn’t do the rough stuff. Doesn’t lose the ball as often as Pogba.

 

[roseguy64]

Never before has a lost header near the middle of the pitch created such hysteria.

His lost header against Huddersfield comes close.

 

[tomaldinho1]

The caf consensus was that our midfield drop that deep because of Chris Smalling. He's not playing.

I've literally never heard that before and I don't see how anyone who watches us play would think that. We play the same way with any combination of CBs.

 

[Ekeke]

I've literally never heard that before and I don't see how anyone who watches us play would think that. We play the same way with any combination of CBs.

Welp thats what I was told. I argued that too, when Smalling didnt play last season we still played those deep passes. I must admit I thought it was because of Matic though. He's not there either.

 

[RedCurry]

His lost header against Huddersfield comes close.

Or his ghost header against Chelsea under absolutely no pressure, just this season. Truth is, the guy is unreliable especially in the air.

 

[golden_blunder]

But but he’s the best ever and we shouldn’t criticize him

 

[Suedesi]

Ah but he's so pretty.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Never before has a lost header near the middle of the pitch created such hysteria.

The missed header led to a 1-on-1, not sure why the ‘middle of the pitch’ should alleviate responsibility.

We were playing a high line, the missed header resulted in the goal opportunity, simple as that really.

EDIT: I’ve just rewatched it for the first time since Saturday, it was barely ‘middle’ of the field & it was a terrible of defending in the air as usual from him.

 

[Foxbatt]

He may be a better option as the holding midfield player as for sure he is quicker than Matic and probably tackles better than him too and reads the game fairly well if the ball is on the ground. That may release Pogba to go forward more easily

 

[criticalanalysis]

He's definitely better in other aspects but as for ball playing, I'm yet to be convinced he's much different to Lindelof but here's to hoping. On the penetrative piece, I don't think that's a CB issue - both Lindelof and Maguire are capable of making those types of passes, I'd say the majority of top CBs are, but they have to have options. It's no good zinging one into Lingard's feet when he's marked and McT and Pog usually operate too deep so any pass to them seems 'simple' or 'safe'. That leaves long balls which are pretty easy to deal with for any decent defence (save ours vs Palace with the ridiculous goal that prompted all this debate) or working it wide where we always come up against the issue that we don't have natural wingers and so the ball usually gets lost or recycled back to a non threatening position and the opposition have plenty of time to get into their defensive shape.

Can you name some of these aspects you think Lindelof is definitely better than Maguire? Looking nice and tidy i.e square passes and non-tackling (by that I don't mean he has to go all AWB but pressing welll, closing space, making body contact to disrupt the momentum and not just shepherding) doesn't do anything for me.

When a player like Lingard or anyone is 'free' or in space between the lines, unless they are being manhandled, you absolutely have to play those passes and trust your team mate because they wouldn't position themselves there in the first place. By not doing that you are cutting your own passing options and passing lanes hence all the square passing.

I've acknowledged above that fundamentally we are just a poorly coached team (stemming all the back from Moyes). So it's definitely not all on Lindelof but he has to take some blame for why Pogba and McTominay are dropping deep to come for the ball. It's a mixture of reasons like not being athletically reliable to play a higher lane and generally not being sharp i.e he can get left behind on the turn and have his pocket picked because he plays so passively.

I don't want to repeat myself but the team is dominating the ball and it is in front of him most of the time. By not carrying the ball into space, by not playing a higher line and by not playing passes between the lines, you are effectively narrowing the pitch and options for yourself and your team mates.

Those team mates have their criticisms too but Lindelof imo has not shown any kind of elite mentality to overcome those obstacles.

 

[Denis79]

A DM wouldn’t be expected to run back past the CB with a player from a routine punt downfield like that

Lindelof was beaten far to easily in the air and Maguire didn’t cover - simple as that

This is my worry with Lindelof. I just believe he has too many physical weaknesses to ever be a top PL CB

On top of that he tends to shy away from a few physical situations as well. I'll never forget how Mooy destroyed him in his first season with us.

 

[SaintMuppet]

With the state of our squad you lot are after Lindelöf???

Seriously???

Have you nothing better to do because he is way down the list of things we need to fix.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Can you name some of these aspects you think Lindelof is definitely better than Maguire? Looking nice and tidy i.e square passes and non-tackling (by that I don't mean he has to go all AWB but pressing welll, closing space, making body contact to disrupt the momentum and not just shepherding) doesn't do anything for me.

When a player like Lingard or anyone is 'free' or in space between the lines, unless they are being manhandled, you absolutely have to play those passes and trust your team mate because they wouldn't position themselves there in the first place. By not doing that you are cutting your own passing options and passing lanes hence all the square passing.

I've acknowledged above that fundamentally we are just a poorly coached team (stemming all the back from Moyes). So it's definitely not all on Lindelof but he has to take some blame for why Pogba and McTominay are dropping deep to come for the ball. It's a mixture of reasons like not being athletically reliable to play a higher lane and generally not being sharp i.e he can get left behind on the turn and have his pocket picked because he plays so passively.

I don't want to repeat myself but the team is dominating the ball and it is in front of him most of the time. By not carrying the ball into space, by not playing a higher line and by not playing passes between the lines, you are effectively narrowing the pitch and options for yourself and your team mates.

Those team mates have their criticisms too but Lindelof imo has not shown any kind of elite mentality to overcome those obstacles.

You've misread my post - I'm saying Maguire is definitely better than Lindelof in other aspects but I don't think they're that dissimilar when it comes to passing ability.

If we're talking about the team as a whole, for sure we've been poorly coached but it's been of our own making. Moyes favoured 'defence first football' and in attack wanted wingers and loads of crosses into the box (great when we were winning stuff like that over a decade ago but no one plays that way anymore really), LVG in my opinion had the right idea with trying to move us away from counter attacking football but the big signings were terrible and I think the team just gave up with him, Mou is and will always be Mou and Ole seems to be keeping Mou's structure but adding in more pressing. Fundamentally, aside from the stint with LVG, I don't see a huge difference between the tactical setup we played when SAF retired and now.

For me the need was always a WC DM and not a CB - as I said i think Maguire's an upgrade but he can't change the frailties we have in the tactical setup no matter how good he is. We have to sign a top DM.

 

[R.N7]

The missed header led to a 1-on-1, not sure why the ‘middle of the pitch’ should alleviate responsibility.

We were playing a high line, the missed header resulted in the goal opportunity, simple as that really.

EDIT: I’ve just rewatched it for the first time since Saturday, it was barely ‘middle’ of the field & it was a terrible of defending in the air as usual from him.

A lost header like that should never lead to a player being put through on goal, normally the other cb smells the danger and steps in, the goal is more on Maguire than Lindelöf.