While I get what you're saying, you can see with Van Djik just how much doing what @POF explained in fact elevates the feeling of dominance. To score against Liverpool on the break when they are in form, you have to avoid the press form the midfield which will only happen a certain amount of times per game for most teams, and if you happen to avoid it you have to have a runner and an inch perfect pass and hope that luck is on your side if you want to avoid Van Djik. If Van Djik weren't capable of reading, and winning the ball quickly one vs one, it would be much easier for any team to build attacks and counter attack. Yeah, the tactics would still work, but without the opposition feeling absolute hopelessness in trying to establish a play of their own. Not saying Lindelof needs to be Van Djik, but if he could handle himself in a similar fashion it would certainly contribute to us dominating teams more consistently.
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Season Average Rating
- Appearances
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- 1
- Assists
- 1
- Yellow cards
- 6
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As I wrote, it can be an efficient tactic, but the examples mentioned were poor examples imo. If you move up to win back the ball early, you are vulnerable for balls behind the back line. This has been how most teams have created chances against Liverpool.
Just watched Liverpool Burnley and there were several balls behind the back line and down the corridors. It’s definitely not like Liverpool’s CBs take control of every ball and I sometimes feel United fans admire Liverpool too much. They also clear it and they also fail to clear it, just like everybody else.
Look at 74:30 and 76:00 from Liverpool - Burnley for two examples of defending that is the price of a high press, where the CBs don’t sort it out imo.
Anything you will do you will come to the same conclusion, unless you don't understand what you're watching
The rules of this board does not allow me a response, otherwise, my response would be a direct attack on you. Now go and learn about some football and let adults discuss how the club can get back to the top. If you feel insulted that I slagged off Lindelof, there's so many things you can do to relieve your frustration.
You heard him @edcunited1878 GO ON!! And don't come back
Comedic gold...people can call out others for nonsense. Nobody is in disagreement on the fact that United can completely upgrade on still a handful of starting XI players, Lindelof included. But the unappreciation of him and complete dismissal of him, by too many people, including yourself, is what is being called out. You're disrespecting a current United player who isn't world class like Rio or Vida and will probably never get to those heights, but doesn't mean he's utter crap, or Championship level at best or cannot simply head a ball.....because everyone knows he's not utter crap, is playing for a big club in the PL and played at Benfica before that and he can head the ball even if it's not his best skill....and I believe Lindelof scored a header this year against Villa at home as well.
There's always reasons to slag a player off, but the sheer ignorance and head in the sand antics is what deserves to be called out. Lindelof isn't your cup of tea, that's fine, but it doesn't mean the tea is as bad as you think it is when so many others have had it and continue to support it for what it is.
Does Moyes have a Football 101 book or video where he shows defending skills of Phil Jagelka to a player such as Rio Ferdinand or Nemanja Vidic?
I think Ferdinand debunked that rumour
Vidic kinda confirmed it didn't he?
Don't know. But that would be fecking hilarious from Moyes
From a MEN article: Ferdinand laughed off the claim when it was put to him two years ago, but admitted in his book he told Vidic after a video session with Moyes: 'I don't know what the f**k he just asked us to do.'
From a great FourFourTwo article on Vidic:
How did you feel when David Moyes made you and Rio Ferdinand watch videos of Phil Jagielka defending? Was it as big a deal to the pair of you as has since been made out?
Christopher Barnard, via Twitter
[Pauses] Players don’t always like what managers say to them. That’s normal – it even happened with Fergie. The sad thing for me wasn’t any specific incident; it was that with David as manager and me as captain, we didn’t do well. As a team we wanted to prove people wrong after Fergie went. We hoped to be better. We were not. We all lost and must share the responsibility and guilt, David as manager and me as captain.
Van Dijk is only so effective and scary because attackers are in a hurry, as you said, avoiding the press. They have to act immediately, almost perfectly or Van Dijk (or another Liverpool player) breaks down their attack. When he was at Southampton it was obvious he is a class defender but never so dominant and impossible to beat. Main reason was that opponents had more time, could evaluate options, pick the best pass, adjust their feet, etc. It's not like he's superhuman or anything. It's a team effort and he's the biggest beneficiary out of it. It helps that he keeps his composure and has much greater anticipation than his partners in defence (all of them, imo).
As for Lindelof, if we continue harassing opposition as we have since the restart, his own qualities will either shine or his limitations will be further exposed. It will become like the goalkeeper position where during the whole game there are only a few moments when needed to act and show their quality. Focus concentration and anticipation are key. I, personally, like him and believe in him but who knows, maybe Ole sees a better partner for Maguire in Tuanzebe or a potential transfer target.
I don't. Once again I think we're pretty close to agreeing just with slight differences so I'm not going to go deeper into this.
I'd agree with that.
One thing that both him and Maguire deserve praise is that they are always available, something that we didn't have for a very long time. Our defense has been decent this year, and that might be a reason for that. Bailly played 4 matches in EPL, Jones played 2, while Tuanzabe played 5. All the remaining were with these two players.
We should seriously consider on getting rid of our CBs except these two and Tuanzabe, and then sign someone who can push both Lindelof and Maguire (or maybe displace one of them, more likely Lindelof). There is no justification for keeping Jones, Bailly, or Rojo considering that they are not fit most of the time (and when they are, they are piss poor).
We should seriously consider on getting rid of our CBs except these two and Tuanzabe, and then sign someone who can push both Lindelof and Maguire (or maybe displace one of them, more likely Lindelof). There is no justification for keeping Jones, Bailly, or Rojo considering that they are not fit most of the time (and when they are, they are piss poor).
Rojo, Bailly and Jones all need to go. I see no argument for keeping any of them.
Not good enough even when fit, which is not often enough.
Tuanzabe - this was meant to be his year as a squad player, but he probably needs a loan now and to play an entire season in the PL if possible.
Spot on. May be some cheap centre back that is worth the punt like Rodon, Ake or anyone with potential bargain fees. Jones, Bailly & Rojo had their times already, time to move on from them and give someone who wants to move to bigger club and determine to impress with no injury prone.
That's a very good and valid point, and comes with no surprise since defenses are built on consistency and understanding. Both deserve praise and let's hope we finish the season on good record. Long term we need to find a young CB with more potential than both of Lindelof and Maguire, to take the back line to another level.
Man Utd 2:2 Southampton
Thought he had a good game, not sure what happened for the corner.
Well... well..
Had a really really good game and then ruined it at the end by just switching off totally. Really poor.
He just switched off I think... Wasn't marking one of the big lads so maybe thought he'd be okay. Never really had a handle on Obafemi.
Top defenders dont get wrong sided like that. Schoolboy defending.
One of his best games for United, then lost a 50-50 and Southampton got a point
He has always been weak in corners.
One less player in defence made it a likely chance it was going to turn in to a goal.
One less player in defence made it a likely chance it was going to turn in to a goal.
Was really good in the 2nd half then absolutely blew it with that. Why is he so so passive?! We’re defending a last ditch corner and he’s standing there like a scarecrow until obefemi runs goal side and pins him back, then it’s far too late.
things like that are exactly why so many people get pissed off with him. You just can’t be that slack.
things like that are exactly why so many people get pissed off with him. You just can’t be that slack.
Classic Lindelöf. The good he makes, he fecks up somehow with an easy mistake.
Like Neville said the pace on that delivery was so wicked. I’d be blaming Matic and the other player who didn’t win the header instead of Bednarek.
Terrible on the corner.
That’s the way he is. He can play well, but ultimately he is too physically weak. He was basically pushed into his own net by a player a third his size.
Choker and has a weak mentality.
Needs an upgrade.
Needs an upgrade.
Got outmuscled by Obafemi. Well, it is always his weakness being outmuscled. This is why we need to upgrade him if we want to challenging the title next season. Lindelof is good but at the same time he has lot of weaknesses and lot of PL strikers can outmuscle him.
Lindelof will never be an elite defender. He's just got too many holes in his game. What we saw from him tonight at the end is what we've come to expect. He never looks confident when the ball is in the air. There's no point getting mad. Its like expecting a rabbit not to be a rabbit. This is the player he is.
Reads the game well but has no physical presence or pace.
That's not a 50-50...you're the Centre Back. You bully the striker and get in the right position.
Have you seen the fecking size of Obafemi, he could probably outmuscle 95% of the defenders in the league.
If he was well positioned, he wouldn't have to
Was a brilliant game from him and the corner was going in from even the best of center backs. The hilarity to pin the corner solely on him is testament to how underrated he is. There was a knock in from Bednarek which would have made it extremely difficult to defend. Also Obafemi was on DDG before he moved inbetween Lindelof and the player in front of him.
Lindelof was extremely good today and snuffed out multiple balls against a physical Ings and Long, and people want to point to this corner to pin blame on him. Bunch of feckwits on this forum, honestly.
Weak. No surprise.
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