Can anyone tell me Lindelof's outstanding attributes?
I'd say he's average to poor in every area.
I'd say he's average to poor in every area.
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Never said he was poor but it wasnt a big CF he was facing it was a winger. But its his to win as he faces the ball all the time and should there for have an advantage. However we spin this it was very very poor.
I am just saying he faced someone who actually wins more headers than Giroud and Pogba. So it is actually a winger who, just like Ronaldo for example, is good in the air. It was poor by Lindelof but worst imo was that he was left alone to do all defending. That should never happen. In an aerial duel where the defender backs in and the attacker comes with full speed the ball can end up anywhere.
Positioning, composure, defending channels, passing. Over the course of last season he improved a lot in headers won as well.
Apart from composure, I'd say he's average at all that and terrible at heading. His composure doesn't really help as he usually plays the safe pass anyway.
We will agree to disagree then. He is a great partner for Maguire IMO. One big mistake in a freak game does not change that for me. A great all round character too, and that is in short supply now days with footballers.
If only. It was the 3rd game in a row that opponents were able to get at least 2 great chances/near conversions to goals
No good defense gives up 2 per match. They'd be disappointed with 1
Then you are judging our defense by unrealistic standards. We've never seen a mistake like that from Lindelof and against Palace it doesn't matter that much anyway; we should have put 4-5 past them from the control we had over the game and the number of shots. The attack lost this one, not the defense.
If only. It was the 3rd game in a row that opponents were able to get at least 2 great chances/near conversions to goals
No good defense gives up 2 per match. They'd be disappointed with 1
I think we can compare him to Blind in a lot of ways playing CB. Blind though I think was far better on the ball, not that Lindelof is bad on it, but just that Blind was class on the ball. Ultimately, people always brought up Blind being weak in the air, weak physically and slow as ultimately the reason why he wasn't enough. Lindelof, similarly, just seems too physically weak to excel as a premier league CB. He's decent, and has had a good year for the most part, but I think on the whole he just comes across as a very average premier league CB. On the ball, in his off the ball intelligence and decision making, and in general leadership, he isn't close to as good as what Blind was there, and because of that, I just get a very meh view on him. He'll have the season as the starter here, but I've said it all along and I still think that unless he bulks up and really learns how to be physically dominant, he's never going to be more than average. Centerbacks just simply need to have that ability to dominate others physically and in the air, and unfortunately, that's Lindelof's weakest attribute.
We've never seen Lindelof be beaten easily in the air? Is this the first United game you watched?
He is perfect for a back 3. Not that much who play a high line back 2.
If you’ve never seen Lindelof beaten in the air you’ve not been watching United.
The guy is a front runner, looks comfortable ahead or drawing but gives no calm when actually needed. I called this mistake in pre-season.
He’s not the answer next to Maguire.
I said it was poor from Maguire as well. In no way does that excuse Lindelof but a goal conceded is very rarely on one individual error. Well organized defensive units and CB partnerships are about reacting/anticipating those mistakes and preparing. Lack of this was an issue I had with Maguire at Leicester, often surprised by a mistake from his partner, not reading danger.
I just hope when Tuanzebe/Smalling make an error people are as quick to judge and want them replaced...
What? He lost the header miles from the goal and he didn't even jump from what i remember. It was a freak goal to conced and the entire back 4 share responsability for it. There was no cover, there was no tracking and marking for the second ball. It was a mess. To pin this on Lindelof not being good at headers is not fair.
Huddersfield away??
He lost that header at 35-40m from goal. The structure of the defense was shit at that point as in normal situations the defender that jumps has some sort of cover. He was alone with 2 opposition players. A collective mistake much more then a single player loosing a chalandge 40m from goal. He should have won that, but it's not just on him.
True but it doesn't really change the fact that he a great many average attributes to his game and very few that are close to exceptional.
Wasn't that Shaw?
That i agree with. Then again, i can only think of very few players in the squad that have many exceptional attributes. Maguire is head and shoulders above all our CDs and Lindelof is by far our second best at this time. I would love it if next summer we sell Smaling, Jones, Rojo and buy another top class CD.
At the moment we make do with what we have and Maguire-Lindelof is IMO by far the best option from the 7 CDs that we have. We are just very well stocked with poor players in this area.
Nope, it was Lindelof in Jose 2nd season.
Was Lindelof. I remember thinking that was one of the worst CB performances i'd seen in a long time and we'd wasted our money.
Fortunately he improved a great deal last season.
On an unrelated note, I SWEAR that everytime i go back and watch an old clip of United of the past 6 years, Jones either makes a horrible mistake or gets injured and he does AGAIN in this one. Not even exaggerating.
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Ah ok. I was remembering last season. For me Lindelof came good in the second part of last season. His very first season at the club was clumsy at best.
Because the header was 40m away from the goal and you expect some defensive cover in that space?How is losing a header easily a freak goal?
Because the header was 40m away from the goal and you expect some defensive cover in that space?
People just don't get that. It's depressing I know, but haters gonna hate it seems...
Blind is and was far better than Lindelof has ever shown both in defending and attacking. But I see your point, it was unfair label with blind it's not with Lindelof.
A big part of the chances created is the midfield & wings.
If only. It was the 3rd game in a row that opponents were able to get at least 2 great chances/near conversions to goals
No good defense gives up 2 per match. They'd be disappointed with 1
In our case we have no midfielders who can do the defensive job to soften the strain on our defense. Everyone wanted a DM this summer for a reason.
Now, arguing that Lindelöf isn't very good is fine (and I'd agree with it as well). The argument that chances against from a statistical standpoint of 2 great chances against each game proves our defense is crap is simplifying and looking too hard at the statistic without taking context into consideration.
If we had a proper defensive midfielder either cleaning up counters or shielding our defense then Lindelöf might be good enough while we address other areas of the squad. We don't, so people will rightly look at Lindelöf's lack of defensive qualities and our midfielders lack of it as well instead of thinking that the problem lies in our terrible recruitment over the years.
I knew we were in trouble the moment their keeper punted it and I saw Lindelof and Schlupp with Ayew nearby and no Maguire. It is basic defending. One goes for the header and one covers the space. Here Lindelof goes for the header with Schlupp and lost it and there was no one covering Ayew. This is why they scored the goal not because Lindelof lost the header. Lindelof can lose the header and they still do not score if there was no (1) Palace player to latch on to the header (2) Maguire covering Ayew or the space behind. Yes Lindelof should have gone harder for the ball but I do not think he can afford to deliberately foul him as he could very well get a red card.
Other issue is if he is so weak in the air why does he not get coached in how to head the ball?
Other issue is if he is so weak in the air why does he not get coached in how to head the ball?
Yeah, like Blind was for the most part very good but did have his moments when he would get caught in a physical duel and it'd be an obvious thing to have to watch out for. Blind definitely had a lot more composure to his game though, and quality IMO. Lindelof is kind of similar, but his good parts aren't as good as Blinds, while in the air/physically he doesn't have Blind's level of intelligence to get deal with it.
Apart from Maguire they're all dross, the only question is which is the least worst.
Because the header was 40m away from the goal and you expect some defensive cover in that space?
You might want to look at the link put above 4 mins in where Smalling was almost holding his hand and even anticipated that he might lose the header ffs:
It's not he just lost this one ball against Palace. It's obvious he (just like Bailly and if comments by other posters are true, Tuanzebe) are inconsistent in the air and therefore by default poor.
We talk about fundamental issues like defensive cover, tactics and team shape but I think it's fair to say now that Linderlof is fundametally poor in the air. When we take into account all his other attributes, he is not good enough to be a dead cert first choice partner for Maguire. For Utd's sake I hope he will improve but please don't pretend he is Rio-lite with a lot of potential or something. He is not. He has got his chance and I'm sure will get more but some of us are just calling a spade a spade.
I still think some here should watch more matches with other teams and with the same overly critical mind, because most goals conceded come in the center. I have watched all top-6 teams matches this round and one could argue that all goals conceded by top-6-teams have come where the central defence/CB could have done better, except for the last Palace goal which was FB/Gk.
Liverpool 1 goal, Arsenal 3 goals, Chelsea 2 goals, City 1 goal (freekick but came because of foul by Laporte) and now latest Tottenham 1 goal.
If United had conceded any of these goals the CBs would have been slaughtered in this forum. Yet it just happened in the central defence of five teams which were all better than United last season.
Liverpool 1 goal, Arsenal 3 goals, Chelsea 2 goals, City 1 goal (freekick but came because of foul by Laporte) and now latest Tottenham 1 goal.
If United had conceded any of these goals the CBs would have been slaughtered in this forum. Yet it just happened in the central defence of five teams which were all better than United last season.
Tuanzebe's weakness is also in the air which worries me. Working with John Terry might have improved him in that sense though so let's wait and see.
He is calm on the ball. Not seen to much of his "playmaker-defender" abilities but he cool on the ball. Other than that he's average. Not saying he's bad and probably our best option to play with Maguire, but he's average.
Yeah but from the few games I have seen of him, I think he's more willing to contest aerially and more proactive on that end so er he's probably not as bad. Not a great standard to go by..
Anyways we definately should be giving him more chances. He's no worse than Lindelof attribute wise and superior in a lot of aspects. He just lacks experience playing for Utd in high stakes atmosphere i.e every game.
I agree..Yeah but from the few games I have seen of him, I think he's more willing to contest aerially and more proactive on that end so er he's probably not as bad. Not a great standard to go by..
Anyways we definately should be giving him more chances. He's no worse than Lindelof attribute wise and superior in a lot of aspects. He just lacks experience playing for Utd in high stakes atmosphere i.e every game.
Just watched the whole game for the 2nd time. Victor had a poor game,lots of ball watching and the thing that annoyed me most was his constant attempts to see if palace players were ok, wasting energy tapping opponent players on the back, picking them up from the ground, its good to be a good sportsman and all that but modern day football you need to be ruthless, pat them on the back at the end of the game when youve kicked them all game and beaten them.
Was a poor performance again from him. Has he got complacent thinking he is a nailed on starter
Was a poor performance again from him. Has he got complacent thinking he is a nailed on starter
I think that he is the reason our defence didn't improve as much as it should after we have bought AWB and MAGUIRE. We have replaced Smalling with a real ball playing CB, but we have lost a lot of pace because of it (not only because Maquire isn't as fast, but also because he will go a lot forward). Lindelof is OK on the ball, but nothing special, his heading is bad for a defender and his defending overall is just OK, nothing special (not really bad, but nothing special).
Now, replacing Smalling instead of Lindelof would make sense if our midfield and attack could continue with some great passing, a lot of chances and a lot of goals, but we probably will not so for me it should be more important to concede less and we will concede less with Smalling and Maguire then with Lindelof and Maguire (at least in my opinion) and really, Lindelof is only more composed then Smalling with the ball, but it's not like he really does something with it (we can se the difference compared to Maguire and what it means to be a ball playing defender).
Now, replacing Smalling instead of Lindelof would make sense if our midfield and attack could continue with some great passing, a lot of chances and a lot of goals, but we probably will not so for me it should be more important to concede less and we will concede less with Smalling and Maguire then with Lindelof and Maguire (at least in my opinion) and really, Lindelof is only more composed then Smalling with the ball, but it's not like he really does something with it (we can se the difference compared to Maguire and what it means to be a ball playing defender).
He's weak in the air end of story.
I like Lindelof but every opposition team worth their salt will be telling their players to try and isolate Lindelof because the guy is always liable to be getting beaten in the air.
I like Lindelof but every opposition team worth their salt will be telling their players to try and isolate Lindelof because the guy is always liable to be getting beaten in the air.
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