[Bobski]

Guys, you need to chill. He misjudged the trajectory of the ball for the goal. These things happen. He is still a capable defender and has been inproving since he arrived. Even the best defenders get caught out every now and then.

Suggesting Smalling for Lindelof at this stage is going to completely change the dynamics of the team and defence and is frankly ridiculous. Absence makes the heart fonder and this is the case with Smalling for now. He is not a footballer. No footballer should be scared of a football and his body movement and turn when passing or receiving the ball just screams of fear and that can be translated to the entire backline which is not what we need now.

For all of Lindelof's faults, he actually does possess the ability to ensure the defence is calm under pressure and cuts out panic. Him over Smalling for me anyday.

When has he actually proven that for Utd? Smalling has at least been part of statistically strong Utd defensive units.

 

[Leftback99]

The opposition should target him in the air every week.

 

[MikeKing]

Guys, you need to chill. He misjudged the trajectory of the ball for the goal. These things happen. He is still a capable defender and has been inproving since he arrived. Even the best defenders get caught out every now and then.

Suggesting Smalling for Lindelof at this stage is going to completely change the dynamics of the team and defence and is frankly ridiculous. Absence makes the heart fonder and this is the case with Smalling for now. He is not a footballer. No footballer should be scared of a football and his body movement and turn when passing or receiving the ball just screams of fear and that can be translated to the entire backline which is not what we need now.

For all of Lindelof's faults, he actually does possess the ability to ensure the defence is calm under pressure and cuts out panic. Him over Smalling for me anyday.

1. He learned that from Van Gaal, to be safe in possession. It is his way of being in control of his tall body when making any pass, even simple ones to assure he doesn't make a mistake. He is a defender and so he should be fearful of taking risks in defensive positions. Taking risk or making mistakes, that is what actually causes panic amongst teammates and attackers when they have to constantly look over their shoulder and be concerned if said CB is making a stupid pass so they'll need to run back to help them out. You need dependable and strong defenders, and it is proven to be more effective for a system that depends on not conceding goals.
2. What pressure? Most teams in the league sit back against us. The big games is where we'll face the big high press, and lets admit that we're just not good enough with our midfield to control those games so any playing out from the back will mostly be redundant and we'll resort to hoofing when pressed, even with Lindelof. I think he can play against quite a few teams stylistically but I would prefer Smalling in most games, honestly.

 

[MikeKing]

The opposition should target him in the air every week.

They will. Which means either Maguire or Wan Bissaka will need to play a lot closer to him which will make our team congested in the build up. Makes our defenders passing ability a bit redundant and counter intuitive to what we want from our team. We could even play McTominay as a third CB alongside him to make up for his poor heading like Mourinho used to do, but again, we're trying to move on and it is not what we want to see. Either way, we'll have to do something unless we plan to leak goals. Most of the solutions that involve Lindelof playing means we're changing the dynamic of the team in some other way. I don't want to see Bissaka playing deep to help Lindelof. Serious waste of potential to have that be the case.

 

[11101]

When has he actually proven that for Utd? Smalling has at least been part of statistically strong Utd defensive units.

Once, in a season where we effectively played a back 6 and scored less goals than we had in years. He's never shown he's good enough for the old Manchester United or the one we want to build now.

I wish these weird Smalling obsessives would just let it go. Lindelof may not be the answer but Smalling definitely isnt.

 

[Stadjer]

Ole wants to play with defenders who are capable when they have the ball so Lindelof is a starter. Im fine with that if that is the prefered playstyle and it is way too soon to replace Lindelof with Smalling. But even the biggest Lindelof fan has to admit that if Smalling would have been in Lindelof his place today that CP wouldnt have scored that first goal.

Smalling is just better at pure defending. Smalling is stronger, quicker and way more athletic in general.

 

[dronesoul]

I don't get the MEN ratings. Sure, it was a weak effort by him when he lost the header, but it's not like it was Victor's fault the rest of the team left him 2v1 on a freaking empty highway leading towards our goal, and sometimes a defender loses a header. It happens, which is why the team in general and the defenders in particular has to really work together 90+ minutes to not concede any goals.

Blaming the goal solely on Victor is for the haters just waiting to pounce and the ones who doesn't even get basic defending. And to everyone who says he's shit in the air; if you watched every game last season you would know he was an absolute beast in the air in plenty of the games. Won 100% of his headers vs big strong forwards etc. Calling his heading shit is just weak and unsupportive of him and the team, no wonder we're trailing with supporters like this, who just moan and yell 'sell!' all days long.

 

[Copa Mundial]

Lindelof is not physical enough at this level. How on earth can it be considered good enough to have a centre half in the Premier League that can't head and is physically weak?

Teams are going to target him week in week out now, inevitably pulling Maguire out of position.

I have nothing against the chap, just think he is not suited to English football. And finally this is not a knee jerk reaction, this has been my opinion of him from day 1.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Bang average player. Slow and poor in the air.

The hype he got last season was silly. He improved his game but we still conceded over 50 goals. He's just not very good.

 

[Bobski]

Once, in a season where we effectively played a back 6 and scored less goals than we had in years. He's never shown he's good enough for the old Manchester United or the one we want to build now.

I wish these weird Smalling obsessives would just let it go. Lindelof may not be the answer but Smalling definitely isnt.

Most of the weird Smalling obsessives just want him to be judged fairly and not blamed for others failings as well as his own. I defend Smalling but have few illusions over his standing, a capable defender with technical limitations who may also be on the decline but he has long been scapegoated while other, lesser, defenders have been heralded beyond their performances. Bailly, Rojo and now Lindelof .

 

[Feed Me]

The way he lost the header for the Palace opener sums him up - a total soft twat. Even our so called established starters are not really up to it.

 

[charlenefan]

The blame for the first goal is on a number of individuals more than it was Lindelof. Yes he lost a 50/50 in the air but where were the covering players? Who was tracking the unmarked goal scorer?

 

[MikeKing]

Once, in a season where we effectively played a back 6 and scored less goals than we had in years. He's never shown he's good enough for the old Manchester United or the one we want to build now.

I wish these weird Smalling obsessives would just let it go. Lindelof may not be the answer but Smalling definitely isnt.

Hi there. Well, regarding the bolded bit, the answer depends a lot on what the question is, doesn't it? If the question is who do we want to play if we want to stop leaking goals then he might be. If it is a question of compensating for lack of midfield signings by playing CB's who are good on the ball then obviously he isn't the answer. If the question is we want to play on the front foot with a high-line, and dominate teams and we need pace to make up for Maguire in that system, all without sacrificing aerial ability, defensive solidity or experience? Then obviously he might be the answer. Ignoring that option because of some perceived idea that football has evolved from the arts of defending is pure modern snobbery.

If the answer is to trust youth like Tuanzebe then Chris isn't the man to ask, because time machines just do not exist. I certainly hope Tuanzebe gets a lot of minutes and he should be playing ahead of Lindelof as he is more talented and it is really not that much of a difference in age and experience. One full season for Tuanzebe and he is where Lindelof was last season. But Tuanzebe is still very inexperienced. It might work with Maguire, but until I see proof of that being solid enough to try be competitive this season I want assurance in Smalling. He might be the worst player on the ball in our team except De Gea, but he is an enabler. A classic defender type allows attackers to focus on what they do best.

 

[LoneStar]

What exactly does he offer that Smalling doesn't?

Smalling is clearly the superior defender. This guy's strength is supposed to be his ability in the ball. All he did today was pass it to either Maguire or Pogba who came in deep to collect the ball.

You can't lose headers like that at the highest level. Mistakes happen, yes, but he's done this before as well.

 

[A-man]

I can can recommend Liverpool-Arsenal. 4 goals and all to fault central defence/defenders. Could be enlightening for some who seem to only watch United and believe the other top6 teams have central defences that never let any balls in.

 

[Foxbatt]

My issue is not even with him losing the header. yes he should have been more strong but anyone can lose a header but more importantly why was he alone with two Palace players in the first place?

 

[MikeKing]

All he did today was pass it to either Maguire or Pogba who came in deep to collect the ball.

Good point as well. Pogba plays deep to get on the ball now, yet people thought Smalling was the reason for that because he is incapable of playing out from the back.

Lindelof has been given a chance and done alright but I'm not sure what people expect from defenders technical ability. As far as I can see only Maguire, Luiz, Van Djik and Laporte are the ones who actively, confidently, and consistently uses their ability on the ball for more than the standard passes that any defender can do. It is not just down to one player to play out from the back but the system. Ability is not as vital as having a functioning role in that team. Some CB's can adapt. Smalling played very well under Van Gaal in a possession based system and made several forward runs and passes, and under Mourinho he had a great season as more of a box-defender clearing crosses, blocking shots. I haven't seen anything like that adaptability from any other of our defenders. He hasn't been fully tried out in the new high-line, aggressive pressing style under Ole, and have never played alongside a entity CB like Maguire. I think it I'll work provided he hasn't regressed after last season. Of course Lindelof will keep playing for now as we'll see this one out I guess but my confidence in him is very low. Very happy if they make it work and that he can be as good as Laporte one day.

 

[rhoff113]

Like all said, he's just average.
Experience don't change a player totally and we'll see these kind of mistakes over and over with a Lindelof on the team.

It's impossible for us to establish a strong defense like when Arsenal played with Mustafi because we can't have clean sheets for some matches.

No individual or collective progress.

 

[hocane]

Said it for months now. This guy is not good enough and I've been laughed at. Seen enough games from him to realize that.

Listen. Axel is a much better talent and is quicker, stronger and is more athletic. The fact that Ole doesn't see this is poor management.

It's true what people are saying. Lindelof is soft, passive, and a weaksauce. Clubs will target him cause he is our weak link.

 

[JustAGuest]

I don't get the MEN ratings. Sure, it was a weak effort by him when he lost the header, but it's not like it was Victor's fault the rest of the team left him 2v1 on a freaking empty highway leading towards our goal, and sometimes a defender loses a header. It happens, which is why the team in general and the defenders in particular has to really work together 90+ minutes to not concede any goals.

Blaming the goal solely on Victor is for the haters just waiting to pounce and the ones who doesn't even get basic defending. And to everyone who says he's shit in the air; if you watched every game last season you would know he was an absolute beast in the air in plenty of the games. Won 100% of his headers vs big strong forwards etc. Calling his heading shit is just weak and unsupportive of him and the team, no wonder we're trailing with supporters like this, who just moan and yell 'sell!' all days long.

People are desperate for a scapegoat when the results don't go their way. What's quite sad is the amount of posters on here that are just waiting for him to make a mistake so they can post about how right they were X months ago (while completely ignoring all his good performances). It's even getting quite abusive in a few of the posts.

Of course, losing a header should not mean an open corridor to score for the opposition. He should have done better, but he's not alone to blame for the goal.

 

[Leftback99]

They will. Which means either Maguire or Wan Bissaka will need to play a lot closer to him which will make our team congested in the build up. Makes our defenders passing ability a bit redundant and counter intuitive to what we want from our team. We could even play McTominay as a third CB alongside him to make up for his poor heading like Mourinho used to do, but again, we're trying to move on and it is not what we want to see. Either way, we'll have to do something unless we plan to leak goals. Most of the solutions that involve Lindelof playing means we're changing the dynamic of the team in some other way. I don't want to see Bissaka playing deep to help Lindelof. Serious waste of potential to have that be the case.

At the start of last season we were playing Fellaini as a deep defensive mid to make up for his heading. Its ridiculous.

 

[A-man]

They will. Which means either Maguire or Wan Bissaka will need to play a lot closer to him which will make our team congested in the build up. Makes our defenders passing ability a bit redundant and counter intuitive to what we want from our team. We could even play McTominay as a third CB alongside him to make up for his poor heading like Mourinho used to do, but again, we're trying to move on and it is not what we want to see. Either way, we'll have to do something unless we plan to leak goals. Most of the solutions that involve Lindelof playing means we're changing the dynamic of the team in some other way. I don't want to see Bissaka playing deep to help Lindelof. Serious waste of potential to have that be the case.

We saw yesterday that this is not the case. Not a single time did anybody cover extra for him. At goal it was even the opposite: Bissaka and Maguire jogging home expecting Lindelof to defend everything himself.

If it was a bit lucky to get a clean sheet against Chelsea, it was a bit unlucky result yesterday that didn't really reflect the match. Palace did hardly get through the defence at all but scored 2 goals on 2-3 opportunities.

 

[arthurka]

Yes he lost the header, but how on earth did Ayew find himself through on goal without anyone near him from it?

Utter madness.

No it wasnt, Mag was out left because Shaw was out. That said Lindelöf should never loose this never. This was against Schlupp not Benteke or Giroud, both Lindelöf's timing and position was off. Maguire should have stayed a bit higher to be fair to play Ayew offside. Lindelöf will never be a top class CB never, its time for Ole to face facts here. Lindelöf doesnt have the grit and physique to be top class.

 

[Eugenius]

It doesn't matter if Maguire should have been covering or not. Losing a header from a ball that travelled 70 yards, to a player 5 inch shorter than you is a big big problem as a centre back. Even if it meant taking a yellow he should have cleared him out completely anyway.

 

[Bobski]

It doesn't matter if Maguire should have been covering or not. Losing a header from a ball that travelled 70 yards, to a player 5 inch shorter than you is a big big problem as a centre back. Even if it meant taking a yellow he should have cleared him out completely anyway.

Disagree there, it was poor from Maguire as well, reading of the play and awareness of danger fail on his part, given where the ball and run was coming from the danger was that space behind Lindelof, it was the obvious cover point. He was barely even moving in that direction by the time Ayew had the ball.

 

[DannyCAFC]

What exactly does he offer that Smalling doesn't?

Smalling is clearly the superior defender. This guy's strength is supposed to be his ability in the ball. All he did today was pass it to either Maguire or Pogba who came in deep to collect the ball.

You can't lose headers like that at the highest level. Mistakes happen, yes, but he's done this before as well.

Smalling is poor on the ball, but with the addition of Maguire, and AWB & Shaw at the FB positions - both of him are decent on the ball, I'm not sure it's such a problem.

Certainly I feel it can be masked better now that United have an excellent ball-playing centre-half much better than Lindelof's defensive vulnerabilities. A CB's duty first and foremost is to defend, and Smalling is far better in that regard as you say.

Lindelof is poor in the air, lacks physicality, isn't particularly quick and is prone to moments on mental collapse. I don't see how a player like that can be starting week-in, week-out for a top 4 club.

Smalling should start IMO, at least whilst Tuanzebe is phased is and given a go also. Lindelof is not the solution.

 

[devips]

Most of the weird Smalling obsessives just want him to be judged fairly and not blamed for others failings as well as his own. I defend Smalling but have few illusions over his standing, a capable defender with technical limitations who may also be on the decline but he has long been scapegoated while other, lesser, defenders have been heralded beyond their performances. Bailly, Rojo and now Lindelof .

You are a part of Anti-Smalling obsessives?

 

[dronesoul]

It doesn't matter if Maguire should have been covering or not. Losing a header from a ball that travelled 70 yards, to a player 5 inch shorter than you is a big big problem as a centre back. Even if it meant taking a yellow he should have cleared him out completely anyway.

Of course it matters, no team has a flawless defender, not a single one. Every single defender will, and has, made mistakes like Victor's. What really matters if you want to complete a season with the least conceded goals is a well synced backline and midfield and forwards who work together all season, and help each other out when someone else makes a mistake. That's what didn't work yesterday, our teamplay. It's our team play that's inadequate at the moment, not individual players.

As for individual quality, Victor has enough to shut down Ronaldo and Dybala in a game. I.e plenty enough. Focusing on and scapegoating individuals might feel right, but it makes one overlook the actual problem.

A lot of the criticism is just absurd, is this forum only for people who's never actually defended and get their "expertise" from FIFA 2019 and Football Manager, or what? Sure seems like it to me. A lot of statements on here really makes you wonder.

 

[Omahahaha]

Disagree there, it was poor from Maguire as well, reading of the play and awareness of danger fail on his part, given where the ball and run was coming from the danger was that space behind Lindelof, it was the obvious cover point. He was barely even moving in that direction by the time Ayew had the ball.

I guess Maguire was covering for Shaw, who for some reason decided to stay on the pitch injured for a couple of minutes. Anyway, bad goal to concede.

 

[LoneStar]

Good point as well. Pogba plays deep to get on the ball now, yet people thought Smalling was the reason for that because he is incapable of playing out from the back.

Lindelof has been given a chance and done alright but I'm not sure what people expect from defenders technical ability. As far as I can see only Maguire, Luiz, Van Djik and Laporte are the ones who actively, confidently, and consistently uses their ability on the ball for more than the standard passes that any defender can do. It is not just down to one player to play out from the back but the system. Ability is not as vital as having a functioning role in that team. Some CB's can adapt. Smalling played very well under Van Gaal in a possession based system and made several forward runs and passes, and under Mourinho he had a great season as more of a box-defender clearing crosses, blocking shots. I haven't seen anything like that adaptability from any other of our defenders. He hasn't been fully tried out in the new high-line, aggressive pressing style under Ole, and have never played alongside a entity CB like Maguire. I think it I'll work provided he hasn't regressed after last season. Of course Lindelof will keep playing for now as we'll see this one out I guess but my confidence in him is very low. Very happy if they make it work and that he can be as good as Laporte one day.

Yup, agreed. I think we should play either of them based on the team we are playing.

I know smalling struggles against teams who press hard, that's where Lindelof can come in. But for a lot of games, where teams would sit back (like yesterday), I think smalling would be better (his pace would help when playing a high line as well)

 

[LoneStar]

Smalling is poor on the ball, but with the addition of Maguire, and AWB & Shaw at the FB positions - both of him are decent on the ball, I'm not sure it's such a problem.

Certainly I feel it can be masked better now that United have an excellent ball-playing centre-half much better than Lindelof's defensive vulnerabilities. A CB's duty first and foremost is to defend, and Smalling is far better in that regard as you say.

Lindelof is poor in the air, lacks physicality, isn't particularly quick and is prone to moments on mental collapse. I don't see how a player like that can be starting week-in, week-out for a top 4 club.

Smalling should start IMO, at least whilst Tuanzebe is phased is and given a go also. Lindelof is not the solution.

Yup, like I replied to the poster above, we should rotate him and Lindelof based on the game we are playing.

When we are expected to be on the front foot most of the time (like yesterday), Smalling makes far more sense.

 

[SuperiorXI]

Don't get why he's so highly rated on here? Looks piss weak and only ever has average games, doing his job for the most part. Maybe it's because we're used to Jones and Smalling?

 

[A-man]

No it wasnt, Mag was out left because Shaw was out. That said Lindelöf should never loose this never. This was against Schlupp not Benteke or Giroud, both Lindelöf's timing and position was off. Maguire should have stayed a bit higher to be fair to play Ayew offside. Lindelöf will never be a top class CB never, its time for Ole to face facts here. Lindelöf doesnt have the grit and physique to be top class.

It doesn't matter if Maguire should have been covering or not. Losing a header from a ball that travelled 70 yards, to a player 5 inch shorter than you is a big big problem as a centre back. Even if it meant taking a yellow he should have cleared him out completely anyway.

Schlupp is not as bad on headers as you try to make it. Last year he averaged 1.8 won aerial duels per match compared to Giroud 1.4 or for example Pogba 1.7

It was a poor header but let's not make up stuff like Schlupp is particularly poor in the air, as he actually is quite good (in the sense that he wins more headers than Pogba and Giroud).

 

[Mcking]

Disagree there, it was poor from Maguire as well, reading of the play and awareness of danger fail on his part, given where the ball and run was coming from the danger was that space behind Lindelof, it was the obvious cover point. He was barely even moving in that direction by the time Ayew had the ball.

Encapsulated Maguire's shortcomings as a centre half. He's dominant and great on the ball, but he's poor at tracking runners and takes ages to react to dangerous situations. Combined with Lindelof being mediocre, McTominay and Pogba's lack of defensive nous, and the zero recovery pace, it's a recipe for disaster. If only Smalling looks a bit more graceful with the ball, he'd be perfect for that backline. Reading defensive situations, winning individual duels, and covering for his teammates are some of the things he does very well.

 

[Eugenius]

Disagree there, it was poor from Maguire as well, reading of the play and awareness of danger fail on his part, given where the ball and run was coming from the danger was that space behind Lindelof, it was the obvious cover point. He was barely even moving in that direction by the time Ayew had the ball.

It was definitely poor from Maguire, I didn't say it wasn't. But the fact we have a centre half who can't properly attack a ball that has travelled 70 yards is a problem. It wasn't even a wicked cross with pace or something similar - just a punt upfield against someone a lot smaller than him. It's a basic requirement to be able to clear your lines and not invite pressure.

 

[VorZakone]

So where's this ball-playing ability by the way? I see nothing that's impressive. He's hardly pinning balls around like Boateng or Pique did at their peaks. Hell, even David Luiz has better passing to be honest.

 

[kouroux]

fecking Schlupp out hustled him. Shit player with a shit name

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

He's average-good at best. He lacks any of the key aspects to be a top-class CB.

Slow.
Physically quite weak.
Timid.
Bad in the air.

Our best bet is Maguire marshals him and lifts him a bit in terms of his performance, or Axel proves to be 'The Guy' before the season ends.

 

[Redtings]

Disagree there, it was poor from Maguire as well, reading of the play and awareness of danger fail on his part, given where the ball and run was coming from the danger was that space behind Lindelof, it was the obvious cover point. He was barely even moving in that direction by the time Ayew had the ball.

He was covering for Shaw, who decided to stay on the field despite being injured.

Furthermore, I think he expected a United centerback to be able to head a ball thats travelled 70 yards against a Palace midfielder who is a few inches shorter than him. Palace specifically targeted their long balls to Lindelof's side, as they thought he is weak in the air.

He's proved them right.

Hopefully Axel can be given a run alongside Maguire.

 

[Garebo]

Still laughing at people who thought he was a top class defender. Maybe Ole will give Tuanzebe a chance next game.

Disagree there, it was poor from Maguire as well, reading of the play and awareness of danger fail on his part, given where the ball and run was coming from the danger was that space behind Lindelof, it was the obvious cover point. He was barely even moving in that direction by the time Ayew had the ball.

With the same logic, De Gea's mistake wasn't actually his, but Lindelof's, because he didn't cover the near post.