VAR, Refs and Linesmen | General Discussion

[cyberman]

Doesn't matter. It still makes him active and interfering with the play.

Having watched it again, I think it's quite clear that Akanji would clear it fairly easily if Rashford wasn't there too.

It doesn’t make him active. Literally does not, he’s not shielding the ball not touching it.
Just saying it doesn’t make it so. You can’t make rules based on “well the defender thought this, the defender thought that”
I think the rules need to be reviewed and I think this instance looks strange with the way it happened but he isn’t offside by any definition.
Walkers must be 40 yards away from Rashford when the ball is played in the other side of the pitch. Let’s say your point is a bit of a stretch

 

[SER19]

Love how people are claiming its some sort of unanimous opinion that it shouldn't stand ...you mean apart from every pundit on bt including lescott, Peter Walton on ref punditry and countless others.

Cracking decision. Rules don't care about your feelings

 

[awop]

Rules say otherwise so nobody cares about what people think is right. Blame the rule.

Yeah yeah keep telling yourself that Welcome to the title race anyway !

Picture of the season so far :

 

[Ahmer Baig]

You don't have to touch the ball to be interfering with play ffs... Rashford ran on to it, shaped to shoot and then left it, its 100% clear. It is what it is, you guys got a big decision go your way. Doing mental gymnastic against even other United fans to defend it is silly. Enjoy the win but admit that was offside, its not a big deal.

Never offside. Why did the two defenders stop and didn't play to the whistle?

The law says don’t stop playing until the whistle goes. Why did the Man City defender’s stop running?

 

[ayushreddevil9]

Yeah yeah keep telling yourself that Welcome to the title race anyway !

Picture of the season so far :

Again, try reading the rules. Also, we ain't in any title race. We dont have a squad for it.

 

[hellhunter]

Yeah yeah keep telling yourself that Welcome to the title race anyway !

Picture of the season so far :

Enjoy it while you can, we'll feck you over with the ref's help next weekend

 

[awop]

Enjoy it while you can, we'll feck you over with the ref's help next weekend

Bring it ! I'll take a title race against United over the oily cheaters any day.

 

[OldSchoolManc]

No obvious error. Close discussion

 

[Bubz27]

The goalkeeper is completely influenced by it, watch Ederson shape to go right because it looks like Rashford is gonna hit it with his left.

It's not anyone's fault but Ederson's if he thought Rashford was going to shoot with his left. He almost never does that.

 

[Lyricist]

Even Bruno is unsure for a moment if he should go for the ball or not because Rashford is all over it without touching it. Bruno's short body movement away from the ball before going for it tells you all about whether Rashford's presence there made a difference. In my opinion the goal shouldn't have stood. But not complaining at all it went this way.

 

[Doracle]

Rashford had left the ball alone by the time Ederson had to make the save. Look, it's very debatable but I don't think you can point at anything in those rules to make it a clear error.

Agree with this. None of the defenders are stopped from playing the ball by Rashford. It definitely wouldn’t be offside if he’d stopped a yard or two away from the ball. The question is whether the fact he got so close to the ball would have put Ederson off. I don’t think that’s clearcut and I’d always prefer the benefit to go to the attacking team. I thought it would be given as soon as Bruno scored and whilst I definitely think it’s more arguable having watched it again, I’m still think it’s a 50-50 one. Fortunately it went in our favour.

 

[Pink Moon]

It doesn’t make him active. Literally does not, he’s not shielding the ball not touching it.
Just saying it doesn’t make it so. You can’t make rules based on “well the defender thought this, the defender thought that”
I think the rules need to be reviewed and I think this instance looks strange with the way it happened but he isn’t offside by any definition.
Walkers must be 40 yards away from Rashford when the ball is played in the other side of the pitch. Let’s say your point is a bit of a stretch

Well that's because these particular laws are subjective so yeah.

 

[Pink Moon]

Agree with this. None of the defenders are stopped from playing the ball by Rashford. It definitely wouldn’t be offside if he’d stopped a yard or two away from the ball. The question is whether the fact he got so close to the ball would have put Ederson off. I don’t think that’s clearcut and I’d always prefer the benefit to go to the attacking team. I thought it would be given as soon as Bruno scored and whilst I definitely think it’s more arguable having watched it again, I’m still think it’s a 50-50 one. Fortunately it went in our favour.

Watch it back and keep your eyes on Walker. If Rashford isn't there and shaping to shoot, I think he'd definitely come across and cover off Bruno but because Rashford for all intents and purposes runs onto the ball, he ignores Bruno as he assumes Rashford is going to shoot.

As for Ederson, it's not just a case of putting him off but also impacting on what he actually does on the pitch. Rashford running through onto that ball prompts the keeper to come out and close him down as Rashford is essentially one on one with him. If Rashford leaves it much sooner for Bruno, he can stay on his line because there's two covering defenders keeping pace with Bruno.

 

[Il Prete Rosso]

Agree with this. None of the defenders are stopped from playing the ball by Rashford. It definitely wouldn’t be offside if he’d stopped a yard or two away from the ball. The question is whether the fact he got so close to the ball would have put Ederson off. I don’t think that’s clearcut and I’d always prefer the benefit to go to the attacking team. I thought it would be given as soon as Bruno scored and whilst I definitely think it’s more arguable having watched it again, I’m still think it’s a 50-50 one. Fortunately it went in our favour.

Dude, Rashford is clearly in a position between Akanji and the ball. He came from an offside position and was clearly involved with the play. It's why Bruno paused and Akanji couldn't get to the ball. There's no agenda here, Rashford is offside.

 

[Member 125398]

I for one am all in favour of this sort of thing.

 

[MikeKing]

It's once again about consistency. Sometimes the linesmen will raise his flag immediately and sometimes the ref will blow his whistle to stop the attack. If Rashford jumped over the pass, stood still and it came to Bruno there is no offside. So the question is about Rashford chasing after the ball whilst being in an offside position. I'm not sure you should be able to do that, but I've seen players do this then stop and fake when they reach the ball to let a team mate pick it up. It's really just one of those loophole things where sometimes the ref blows early, and other times just let play go on.

Technically, Rashford never picked up the pass that was intended for him so how can he be offside? City team could easily have ran past Rashford to try and stop the counter, if Rashford stopped their path he would be offside... Walker never knew if Rashford were to pick that ball up so him stopping his run is just a lazy excuse to stop playing even though the whistle wasn't used.

 

[Gandalf Greyhame]

That was as blatant an offside as you'd get. Rashford clearly ran with the ball, shielded it from City defenders with that run, and shaped up to shoot in a direction different than Bruno which put Ederson off.

I would be absolutely fuming if it happened to us, instead. Incompetent linesman who got cowed by Bruno's antics and the crowd, and backed up by an even more incompetent VAR team. Sympathies to fellow City fans on the caf.

That said, we've been due some good VAR karma, and I'll take it in on derby day. Makes up for the DDG drama and the Licha handball.

 

[Red in STL]

Even Bruno is unsure for a moment if he should go for the ball or not because Rashford is all over it without touching it. Bruno's short body movement away from the ball before going for it tells you all about whether Rashford's presence there made a difference. In my opinion the goal shouldn't have stood. But not complaining at all it went this way.

Bruno wasn't sure whether he himself was offside, he said so in his post-match

 

[cyberman]

Well that's because these particular laws are subjective so yeah.

They’re not subjective. Every time a player reacts to an offside player and the next phase happens that plays the attack on, it doesn’t seem to matter a feck. Literally given on every single time
I think it should be changed and I’ve complained about it time and time again on here but it’s happened so many times now that im genuinely surprised posters can’t see it. They confuse what should be and what is

 

[Pink Moon]

They’re not subjective. Every time a player reacts to an offside player and the next phase happens that plays the attack on, it doesn’t seem to matter a feck. Literally given on every single time
I think it should be changed and I’ve complained about it time and time again on here but it’s happened so many times now that im genuinely surprised posters can’t see it. They confuse what should be and what is

Of course it's subjective. When a player is offside but doesn't obviously touch it the question then is 'did he interfere?' which is a subjective call.

 

[cyberman]

Of course it's subjective. When a player is offside but doesn't obviously touch it the question then is 'did he interfere?' which is a subjective call.

And the answer is no unless he block off an opponent or interferes with an opponents ability to play the ball.
Rashford did neither.
A player reacting to an offside player that scores in the next phase seems to happen every week so fans should realise it’s now a non factor in the modern game.

 

[Pink Moon]

And the answer is no unless he block off an opponent or interferes with an opponents ability to play the ball.
Rashford did neither.
A player reacting to an offside player that scores in the next phase seems to happen every week so fans should realise it’s now a non factor in the modern game.

Not quite. There's more to it than just those two.

Here's some of the examples listed on the IFAB site:

• challenging an opponent for the ball or
• clearly attempting to play a ball which is close when this action impacts on an opponent

Rashford clearly did this.

 

[Red in STL]

Not quite. There's more to it than just those two.

Here's some of the examples listed on the IFAB site:



Rashford clearly did this.

How exactly? Rashford made no attempt to play the ball and he was "offside" because no one was near him so how could he be challenging an opponent?

 

[Pink Moon]

How exactly? Rashford made no attempt to play the ball and he was "offside" because no one was near him so how could he be challenging an opponent?

You don't think sprinting after a ball and ending up about a yard away from it before you finally leave it for someone else is in any way making an attempt on the ball or interfering with the play? He didn't actually play the ball but he attempted to with his sprint towards it. Hell, he and Bruno basically ran into each other after Bruno hits it.

As for challenging an opponent for the ball, basically the above too. He sprints after the ball with Akanji in pursuit. Looks to me like Akanji slows his run to avoid barging into Rashford.

Honestly it's hard to fathom how anyone could watch this goal and watch Rashford sprinting after the ball and being so close to the play and not come to the conclusion that his actions directly impacted the City players' actions in the play. I'd be stunned if this isn't one of the examples they'll use in about 6 months when the PGMOL come out with a list of things they got wrong.

 

[TheReligion]

Never seen such a fuss made about a goal than this one because its United.

The rule, rightly or wrongly, has been consistently applied this season without so much of a grumble.

 

[90 + 5min]

Never seen such a fuss made about a goal than this one because its United.

The rule, rightly or wrongly, has been consistently applied this season without so much of a grumble.

Exactly. I said that before. Why haven't see same reaction every week when it goes against us?

Or against some other teams invloved, like Wolverhampton against Liverpool and that goal wich didn't count. Why don't we read about ManCity constantly diving in todays game?

For most of us, this goal should have not stood. That is. But considering other times we've been on wrong side, there is difference of reaction.

 

[TheReligion]

Exactly. I said that before. Why haven't see same reaction every week when it goes against us?

Or against some other teams invloved, like Wolverhampton against Liverpool and that goal wich didn't count. Why don't we read about ManCity constantly diving in todays game?

For most of us, this goal should have not stood. That is. But considering other times we've been on wrong side, there is difference of reaction.

It’s a sign they are all rattled mate

United back controlling refs and the FA. No one getting a decision at Old Trafford..

Inject it in my veins!

 

[L. Robert]

That penalty they gave for the foul on Toney is one of the worst decisions of the season so far. No idea how VAR can miss that handlock.

 

[Pink Moon]

The Toney penalty is disgraceful

Hooks the defenders arm then falls over to make it appear like he's been dragged down.

The most annoying part of it all is that I'm not even surprised they failed to overturn that. The PL refs are by far the worst of all the leagues I watch.

 

[Fts 74]

Honestly I'd be fuming if that goal was given against us a stupid rule which we have benefited from.

But city/Liverpool fans crying over it given how much they have benefited from VAR is hilarious.

I love the fallout means we're relevant again if the ABU are out in force.

 

[mctrials23]

Never seen such a fuss made about a goal than this one because its United.

United are always good for drama even when we are utter crap like we have been for a lot of the past decade. Now we are looking good again its just 10x worse.

There are often 5-6 bad VAR decisions every weekend. This wouldn't even make top 20 of the season either.

 

[MikeKing]

It’s a sign they are all rattled mate

United back controlling refs and the FA. No one getting a decision at Old Trafford..

Inject it in my veins!

The problem with this is that eventually - refs might take action to turn that around. Let's pray VAR can create less possibilities for corruption either way you look at it.

 

[Andersonson]

Has any refs or anything said anything? It looks like an obvious error to me

 

[mu4c_20le]

Spoiler: VAR Room

 

[Sandikan]

Dude, Rashford is clearly in a position between Akanji and the ball. He came from an offside position and was clearly involved with the play. It's why Bruno paused and Akanji couldn't get to the ball. There's no agenda here, Rashford is offside.

He's in an offside position, but by the rules isn't interfering with play.
That's fact - there's nothing to discuss here. The rule says he's not interfering.
Challenge the rule, not the outcome.

 

[Pink Moon]

As a neutral, it's funny to see arguments like 'well City/Liverpool benefit from VAR all the time so it's our turn!'. Like, do you actually believe United don't benefit from it too? One of the worst VAR decisions since its introduction was Fernandes' penalty away to Villa. He also blatantly fouled a West Brom player at Old Trafford and conceded a penalty only for VAR to somehow overrule the referee. IIRC even Rio Ferdinand was bemused by it. I remember laughing at Maguire performing all sorts of wrestling moves on Azpilicueta and VAR saying no penalty. Varane clearly fouling Callum Wilson this season and no penalty.

Every team benefits from it because the referees in control of it simply aren't up to scratch.

Exactly. I said that before. Why haven't see same reaction every week when it goes against us?

Or against some other teams invloved, like Wolverhampton against Liverpool and that goal wich didn't count. Why don't we read about ManCity constantly diving in todays game?

For most of us, this goal should have not stood. That is. But considering other times we've been on wrong side, there is difference of reaction.

There was plenty of uproar over that decision tbf

 

[Sandikan]

Spoiler: VAR Room

He might not be thinking that if we're the ones who benefit from their upcoming inevitable meltdown.

 

[bosnian_red]

Dude, Rashford is clearly in a position between Akanji and the ball. He came from an offside position and was clearly involved with the play. It's why Bruno paused and Akanji couldn't get to the ball. There's no agenda here, Rashford is offside.

Yes Rashford is between the ball and Akanji. But Akanji is also at least a good 3 yards away from Rashford and the ball at pretty much all times, so he's never getting on it.

The only player here from City who is actually influenced by Rashford in their actions, is Ederson. That's 50/50 for me. Akanji was never getting to the ball, he stopped running at first and so was always too far away. Walker is on the wrong side of Bruno and he wasn't impact either. Ederson you could argue sets up differently with his feet/positioning if there's no Rashford to get to the ball and the ball is just running through to Bruno. But with no Rashford, it still goes past Akanji, and Walker maybe would've reacted better but that's his own mental mishap at being distracted and not playing to the whistle, which isn't offside.

 

[bosnian_red]

You don't think sprinting after a ball and ending up about a yard away from it before you finally leave it for someone else is in any way making an attempt on the ball or interfering with the play? He didn't actually play the ball but he attempted to with his sprint towards it. Hell, he and Bruno basically ran into each other after Bruno hits it.

As for challenging an opponent for the ball, basically the above too. He sprints after the ball with Akanji in pursuit. Looks to me like Akanji slows his run to avoid barging into Rashford.

Honestly it's hard to fathom how anyone could watch this goal and watch Rashford sprinting after the ball and being so close to the play and not come to the conclusion that his actions directly impacted the City players' actions in the play. I'd be stunned if this isn't one of the examples they'll use in about 6 months when the PGMOL come out with a list of things they got wrong.

PGMOL right away came out and said it's the correct call, so you're wrong...
Akanji doesn't slow down, the ball is just far away from him the whole time. He's taken out by the pass and because he initially stopped running to do an offside trap, but after that is out of the equation. He couldn't barge into Rashford because he was a good 3 yards away.

 

[Pink Moon]

PGMOL right away came out and said it's the correct call, so you're wrong...
Akanji doesn't slow down, the ball is just far away from him the whole time. He's taken out by the pass and because he initially stopped running to do an offside trap, but after that is out of the equation. He couldn't barge into Rashford because he was a good 3 yards away.

I haven't seen that. Got a link? I'd love to read what they have to say on it.

Can you answer if you think Rashford had any impact on Ederson?

edit: Never mind, I see what you mean about PGMOL. NBC contacted them, right?

PGMOL have gotten back to us and have said no touch on the ball, no impact on the defender, and therefore they [VAR] could find no reason for a clear and obvious error.

They're being a bit disingenuous here. They only comment on the defender but not the goalkeeper. Why do they think Ederson is charging off his line to narrow the angle for Rashford? Because Rashford makes an effort to chase after the ball and would be through on goal thus an offside players actions impacted the goalkeeper.

Secondly, no reason for a clear and obvious error? So why did they overturn it? I thought VAR was only to be used when there is a clear and obvious error.