What you’re saying here is that the next time this happens in the premier league, it will definitely be a penalty?
VAR, Refs and Linesmen | General Discussion
- Thread starter Samid
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Bet it happens today.
Pretty much this.
some posters went to great length to explain how our defenders are stupid for giving penalties but as soon as our players are subject to the exact same fouls suddenly our players our either soft or diving.
Sorry but if they gave a handball against Wan Bissaka, and pens for dives against Chelsea and Liverpool, then it should be a pen for Garnacho in 1st half and handball in 2nd half, simple as that
There was a situation in wolves v Leeds game last season identical to Onana not given. There was one in a Chelsea game this season not given. They just don’t get given. If it changes and they are always given then I’d totally accept that it’s a pen.
I’m going to be on the lookout for itBet it happens today.
Drastically inconsistent officiating and VAR is a pox. Only reason it’s ignored at United is ETH isn’t in a strong position to not sound like he’s making excuses.
Bin VAR and clarify what is a f**king peno. If it’s a peno to touch an opponent in the box , just make it a penalty and stop flip flopping game to game.
Bin VAR and clarify what is a f**king peno. If it’s a peno to touch an opponent in the box , just make it a penalty and stop flip flopping game to game.
I can remember a couple not given this season in the premier league. Can you name me the ones that have?
Pretty sure there was one given the week after the first Onana incident but I can't remember who it was
I've never seen the bruno one. I'm a celtic fan. Dislike all English teams equally. Zero bias involved in my assesment on this foul.
There was indeed one the following game week cos of the media frenzy, and then they pretty much stopped being given - as they have been pretty much forever.
Fyi I think it's a pen and they should be given, but the reality is there is no consistency on them, and more often than not, keepers are allowed to bulldoze opposition players.
The crystal ball shop where I live closed due to unforeseen events.
I have no problem with what is or isn't a penalty changing as long as it's applied consistently. But for United it's rarely the case it seems to me.
Goalkeepers cleaning players out when trying to get to crosses and fouls not being given has been an anomaly in the rules for years.
I would have full sympathy with a decision being made (and communicated) that they were going to be penalties going forwards. Instead, we had the bizarre Wolves match where a penalty wasn’t given (consistent with the approach taken by referees since I started watching football) and suddenly the coverage of it was consistent with it being one of the worst decisions of all time.
Anyway, I have no problem with the one yesterday being given. As long as that’s the approach consistently taken for all teams going forwards, it’s an understandable approach to treat that as a foul.
I would have full sympathy with a decision being made (and communicated) that they were going to be penalties going forwards. Instead, we had the bizarre Wolves match where a penalty wasn’t given (consistent with the approach taken by referees since I started watching football) and suddenly the coverage of it was consistent with it being one of the worst decisions of all time.
Anyway, I have no problem with the one yesterday being given. As long as that’s the approach consistently taken for all teams going forwards, it’s an understandable approach to treat that as a foul.
If that’s a dive then the Villa player dived too. Soft push on both. The only difference between the two is Sterling was in the process of running while the Villa player was standing firm.
That’s basically it. There’s no technology that can eradicate human error and inconsistent decision making in situations where they are by nature very subjective. In the last 2 pages we’ve had people disagree whether the Sterling one was a foul or dive and disagree about various other United related penalties. I completely appreciate it’s a horrible job but it just maddening as a fan to watch the same type of incidents reffed differently on a week to week basis.
Which is why “clear and obvious” is a flawed approach. All the VAR should be asking themselves is whether they would have reached the same decision. If they disagree, then they can call the ref to the monitor and have a grown-up discussion. It’s still the on field ref’s ultimate decision, so you’ll still have the potential for different decisions but we could at least then be relatively satisfied a proper process was being followed (and I suspect we would see far greater consistency - which is what we all want).
Didn’t they try that, and Man United got lots of penalties? Couldn’t possibly have that.
The Badiashile push is definitely a foul, the only question is the threshold for VAR intervention. Needs to be consistent. Maybe a bit borderline but we can't have many complaints.
We've had 12 pens this season somehow and a few red cards missed I can think of... can't complain at all overall with our reffing this season.
Looks to me like Garnacho had a good shout where his legs get taken away in the box. Bottom left here,
Can't find other angles of it.
The Onana one is definitely a foul as well. You can foul someone off the ball.., clear as day pen.
We've had 12 pens this season somehow and a few red cards missed I can think of... can't complain at all overall with our reffing this season.
Looks to me like Garnacho had a good shout where his legs get taken away in the box. Bottom left here,
Can't find other angles of it.
The Onana one is definitely a foul as well. You can foul someone off the ball.., clear as day pen.
There is more discussions and controversy with var than there was before it existed. It's been trialed, nobody likes it, just get rid of it. It has ruined the game.
Yes it really is maddening, even in games which don't really effect anything important. VAR comes with such massive downsides that it needs to be nearly perfect to be worth it. It's a long way from that and I don't see how it can improve without a complete re-writing of the rules to make any contact with the hand an offence, for example. But that would quickly become farcical.
Agreed. Football is not a sport which suits such a fine examination of every incident.
Wasn't it announced this week that Sweden is not going to introduce it?
Crazy that it was penalty against AWB but not this time...
Neither should be pen in my opinion... but please use the same rule between rounds.
Neither should be pen in my opinion... but please use the same rule between rounds.
Yes. They need to have a vote with the Premier league clubs at the end of the season. I bet the majority would vote to get rid of it.
If it’s a penalty ALL DAY LONG you hardly need a crystal ball. Thanks for confirming
You’ve really got to question the motives of the media…MOTD showed one angle of the Garnacho one in the first half, showed it once at an angle that hid the contact and Alan Shearer shouted blatant dive. The end.
He actually just tw@ts his back foot trying to kick the ball from behind him.
The one in the second half is similar to the pen that Elliot bought for Liverpool.
I’m sick of having things go against us one week…and go against us the next.
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I mean that's hilarious. Just because a hand touches your back doesn't mean it causes you to go down. Watch it again. There's a light nudge in the back and he exaggerates a movement forward and goes down.
There's been so much diving over the years, I think it's warped people's ability to judge what natural falls look like.
I haven't seen that one but if he got a nudge from a standing position and hit the deck then it's very likely to be a dive. You'd have to put some welly into a standing athlete to push him off his feet.
VAR in itself is fine it’s just somehow whilst introducing it they’ve managed to keep their decisions just as secretive as ever. Rugby arguably has laws that are even more open to interpretation by each individual referee than football is but it works because they explain their decisions for the fans, and if you don’t agree with it at least you know the thought process.
adding or removing VAR in football won’t fix anything, the secretive little boys club the refs have being protected needs to be dismantled before any meaningful change can happen
adding or removing VAR in football won’t fix anything, the secretive little boys club the refs have being protected needs to be dismantled before any meaningful change can happen
Are you sure about that? Before VAR as far as I recall we were fuming constantly that they were missing all sorts of stuff and waving away pens that were stone wall etc.
The way they've implemented is horrific. They need to go back to drawing board as there is no consistency at all.
I'm.still convinced var isn't a problem, it's a referring problem combined with the stupid clear and obvious. Just make a correct decision.
Bingo and the number 1 change that must be implemented is mic'd up refs where the audio gets released to the public. Once this happens watch officiating get 30% better immediately
Agreed on all counts
That's still happening though, except now it's happening after half a dozen slow motion replays.
Yes but at least you could put that down to the ref missing it. Now they have replays and they still get it wrong so what's the point.
I'd wager that, as annoying as it is, they get less of them wrong. The marginal ones can go either way because of the clear and obvious error threshold which I've always said has to go. The inconsistency stems from the implementation as opposed to the technology.
They've had five years to get it right, that's plenty of time. It needs to go.
What? He was nowhere near the ball. If that isn’t a penalty then the goalkeeper has carte blance to take out the striker under the garb of “going for the ball”. He had a brain fart.
Let's remove VAR and watch those same individuals get away with it with even less scrutiny, that will be great.
Plus don't ref get like 1k per VAR game ? You can ref a game on Saturday and be VAR on Sunday and pocket 2 to 3k per weekend. That's a nice comfy bonus to watch a screen for 100mn. They're never letting that easy money go away.
Plus don't ref get like 1k per VAR game ? You can ref a game on Saturday and be VAR on Sunday and pocket 2 to 3k per weekend. That's a nice comfy bonus to watch a screen for 100mn. They're never letting that easy money go away.
The problem is the refs will still be shit and inconsistent. Scrapping it would make the situation will be worse imo. We'd still have access to the replays with pundits mouthing off about incorrect decisions.
They might think they're trying to get it right though but their whole philosophy is wrong. It's all about using the VAR to protecting the on-field ref from criticism rather than working together as a team to get to the right decision. The whole system needs an overhaul.
It's all reactive. They lurch from rule change to rule change, mostly based on media/public furores instead of sitting down and deciding, for example, what should and shouldn't be considered off-side and what the spirit of the law was designed to prevent.