Been watching football for 30+ years mate it's rarely been a penalty before this season, even during this season it's happened a lot with no penalty given.
VAR, Refs and Linesmen | General Discussion
- Thread starter Samid
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Been watching football for 30+ years mate it's rarely been a penalty before this season, even during this season it's happened a lot with no penalty given.
But this is the issue that many of us against VAR from the start could see coming. Unless the technology was able to do the full job, we'd be stuck with subjective analysis of incidents, interpreted differently from game to game, by people with biases and natural human inconsistencies.
So, until the technology is able to remove this variable, we should go back to the ref on the field. Or, as I've wanted for a while now, a team of officials who can all make the decision but only make a call for when they are certain. So if they don't see a touch, for example, they don't just guess. The old argument that this coiuldn't be implemented in the lower leagues as they couldn't afford the extra officials, wasn't applied to VAR. There doesn't need to be one head ref when multiple people give a broader range of angles and a greater chance to get things right. It won't be perfect of course, but the situation now is a mess with the constant delays and lack of consistency, clarity and accountability ruins the experience for me.
Arsenal are different gravy. They are clearly better than Spurs and should look to add a few more goals
Kulu needed to go straight down, once you try and stay on your feet you are never getting a pen.
They weren't and won't only make a call for when they are certain. They'll be back to guessing again. What faith so you have that they will take that kind of approach?
The situation was a mess before, hence why so many were clamouring form the introduction of technology.
Feel the semi automated thing could help,however why does it seem so much quicker for international tournaments
Should have been a penalty on Kulu. But I guess good for the title race.
Refereeing is hard, particularly at the top level. What we often find right now is so-called assistant refs being reluctant to make a call or correct the ref who's had to make a split second decision. Having a larger team available to see the different angles would give a greater possibility of getting the correct decision. It wouldn't be flawless, clearly. But would eliminate the sometimes massive delays we see now. If 2 officials are 'certain' but have opposing views then they can get together and talk it out, but this would be quicker than the current setup and, I think, more likely to provide a better success rate than the pre VAR days.
So you're advocating a new system without VAR.
I'm sorry but that's just not happening. It's fantasy stuff. If they got rid of VAR it'd go back to the way it was. An overhaul and new approach is required, I agree but that should include technology. To completely ignore video evidence seems like a backwards step.
Also how long would 'talking it out' take? One of the current criticism is the length of time it can take to get to a decision. Having 4 refs standing around having an argument about what each had seen surely isn't going to any quicker.
Yes, a new system until VAR is actually ready, whether that be 1 year or 20.
It really wouldn't take long for 2 refs to run to each other, ask 'how certain are you', or 'what did you see' and come to a decision. I know it wouldn't be perfect, but it would be a big improvement on the old system where one guy was supposed to make every single decision from the angle he saw it.
I think overall var has gotten more right than compared to the refs before, but it's frustrating when they bottle decisions based on backing the on field ref.
I'm really not sure where you are going with this. What is it about the technology that you think isn't ready?
We agree the approach should change but I can't see how it would be better without access to replays of the incidents.
Sorry I thought I was clear. An automatic system. Where the technology is able to determine whether there was contact and how much. Decide, within strict parameters, on what is considered handball, or a foul etc.
We've seen that the human element ruins the use of video replays, which aren't perfect and don't give the full picture anyway. So scrap it.
Edit: Yeah I think I forgot to include something I was going to in an earlier post, that's why I wasn't clear. Sorry to cause confusion.
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Yeah these days we have the new "refereeing rules" and "refereeing man Utd rules". Under normal situations: you won't get double yellows for dissent, goalkeepers trying to claim the ball won't give pens, handballs in the box get applied different according to the two different sets.
(For me it's a stonewall penalty by the by but if you look at the number of times David de Gea got cleared out by strikers over the last few seasons with goals given no fouls you start to get kind of a grudge
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VAR bailed Michael Oliver there.
How did he miss that?
he's right there
this is why, imo, getting rid of VAR won't magically improve refereeing
Well exactly. A perfect case in point.
Oliver was never letting Arsenal lose that game. I honestly reckon he must have had money on it.
Can't wait for Ange to have a go at Oliver.
this is why I think pundits, commentators, fans talking about scrapping VAR in it's entirety is naive and emotionally driven
all this talk about the human element is football is all well and good, but if the refs are making human errors then what....
Is there a reason why VAR doesn’t get involved in simpler decisions? For example when a goal kick is given but the ball clearly came off the defender for a corner.
See that kind of thing happen often, and a single replay makes it clear what the decision should be, yet there’s no intervention.
Always thought technology could help get the simple things right, but there’s not even an attempt to address those mistakes.
See that kind of thing happen often, and a single replay makes it clear what the decision should be, yet there’s no intervention.
Always thought technology could help get the simple things right, but there’s not even an attempt to address those mistakes.
Nah the league just got it in for City and easier if 2nd are relegated this summer than 1st ?
Ok well that’s a pen from Ederson on Boli
How is that different what Ederson did compared to what Onana did. Nothing
Shock
Funny how it’s all just glossed over like it didn’t happen.
corrupt as feck.
corrupt as feck.
It's completely different in that they're both jumping through the air and collide with each other.
Onana came from distance and hit the attacker.
You really need to take off the red tinted specs for some of these.
I mean, you all need to realize that as soon as the goalkeeper touch another player it's not automatically the same situation.
Boly was first in that situation. Ederson was late.
Just watch replay. Ederson was late. It is no 50/50 collision.
It absolutely is a 50/50. The attacker even comes across Ederson's path sightly. Even if you dispute that it's nowhere near 100% on Ederson whereas yesterday was 100% Onana.
Edersons path? So now we are moving goalposts to. Why not Bolys path? Ederson is late. He comes out with his hands high. Catches Boly in upper body. Not as clean as Onana but there is contact and force behind. Watch the replay.
Is coming from a distance the rule? Like I can trip a player, but just don’t run from distance and then trip them.
Obviously I’m being sarcastic, but don’t think that coming from distance is written in the rules anywhere so it just has to come down to the foul. Maybe they will state that they collided in the City match vs Onana initiating contact but I think it’s very close. He comes for the ball, gets nowhere near it and takes out a man.
Well that's what I meant. The players aren't moving towards each other. He comes leaping towards the defender and AWB so the onus is on him not to punch the lad in the face.
The biggest issue with VAR is that it will benefit the clubs in a title race or with something riding on the game.
In my honest opinion, PGMOL has decided to give any contentious decisions in favour our opposition, because they are aware that they get absolutely hammered by the press if they are seen to be favouring us.
It's a policy and it has totally fecked us over this season, costing us so many points in the process.
Those marginal little trips that Garnacho fell under yesterday would have been given against us if referred, as would the handball claim.
That doesn't mean it was a handball, it just means that referees are following a strict policy dictated to them by PGMOL to mitigate criticism. The press couldn't care less if a decision goes against us, as they always back the referee's decision, so PGMOL's credibility is not affected one iota by how they referee our games.
We need to wake up a little bit and realize that over the course of this entire season (well, ever since the Wolves home game), we have been robbed blind by referees.
It's a policy and it has totally fecked us over this season, costing us so many points in the process.
Those marginal little trips that Garnacho fell under yesterday would have been given against us if referred, as would the handball claim.
That doesn't mean it was a handball, it just means that referees are following a strict policy dictated to them by PGMOL to mitigate criticism. The press couldn't care less if a decision goes against us, as they always back the referee's decision, so PGMOL's credibility is not affected one iota by how they referee our games.
We need to wake up a little bit and realize that over the course of this entire season (well, ever since the Wolves home game), we have been robbed blind by referees.
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The handball yesterday is never a handball anywhere, anytime. Hands by his sides, he doesn't move them towards the ball which is booted at him from close range. The Garnacho one wasn't clear cut at all.
You can make a case that the media coverage of decisions in our matches feeds into how we are refereed, of course. That suspicion remains but there are much better examples from earlier in this season and in previous ones, like when Klopp complained and we never got another one all season.
Notably, Onana does not punch this game in the face
The point is whether those debatable decisions would have been given against us. There's no way of proving it, of course, but if that handball was by Harry Maguire, Marcus Rashford or Antony, they would be penalized. Why? Because no-one cares if we get shafted except us.
We're being reffed to a different standard than other teams because PGMOL is worried about the blowback from the press if they're seen to be favouring us. That has cost us so many points this season, and we're talking double figures. Anything contentious goes in favour of our opponents.