VAR, Refs and Linesmen | General Discussion

[KiD MoYeS]

This theme of “we won’t get hard done by if our manager causes a fuss” is pure conjecture. Show me the evidence that a managers words have any effect whatsoever in generating favorable outcomes from e refereeing decisions

It happened in the league cup final just last week. Pochettino was very vocal about the referee performance before the match, stating he hoped they didn't bow to pressure from Liverpool. Caicedo should have been sent off.

 

[kouroux]

That’s not my point, of course the occasional decision will go against them but they have undoubtedly had many more decisions go for them than against them.

I’m not saying that’s all down to pressure and mind games from Klopp, but it doesn’t hurt them when he does that. I wish our manager would be more vocal about the decisions that go against us, maybe it would put the officials under pressure to stop making awful mistakes that cost us.

Unless you specific stats to back that up, I'd say it's pure imagination. Every single team gets hard done by refs and every fan thinks they're out to get them

 

[kouroux]

when a decision goes against Liverpool there is a national scandal and the FA apologise.

Because they are good at PR as a club and many of their ex players/coaches are pundits everywhere

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The Bruno throat grab was a joke. Incredible they looked at that and deemed 'play on'.

There are far more petulant players in the league than Bruno, but the narrative surrounding him means that teams can pretty much do what they like to him and face no consequences. Yesterday just proves that goes even as far as outright violent conduct.

There’s also an irony in the way Bruno is perceived by the British press/fans as a diving, cheating foreigner but the main reason further action wasn’t taken was because he didn’t overreact. If he’d Harry Kane’d himself to the ground, grabbing his throat in agony, chances are it would have been a red card.

 

[Fr. Todd Unctious]

Will Felipe get the same ban Cas got
(Cas didn't evem have his hands around the players neck).

He won't and the media will say feck all too

 

[Rooney in Paris]

The refereeing was very, very bad last night. We got through it so it'll be dismissed, but there was pretty clear bias in some big moments.

 

[duffer]

The Bruno throat grab was a joke. Incredible they looked at that and deemed 'play on'.

Wasnt it about 10 seconds before the ref blew the final whistle?

It shouldn't but I bet that made a difference (along with the massive conspiracy to feck over Man United of course).

 

[duffer]

Have they ever said why they won't broadcast the VAR Comms in real time?

If they did, I think people would trust it more.

 

[MegadrivePerson]

Look at the amount of favourable decisions Liverpool have gotten this season. Every man and his dog knew that once that mistake was made against Liverpool in the Spurs game they would start to get one favourable decision after another and they have.

Look also when Klopp had a good cry about the amount of penalties we were getting, we only got about 1 in the 40 odd games that followed that. Not only are officials incompetent but they are also human and to suggest they can not be influenced by powerful managers is naive.

It's a bit of a myth this. Look at the ESPN guide,
How VAR decisions affect each Premier League club in 2023-24 - ESPN

Liverpool and Wolves (both -3) and Sheffield United (-4) have had more decision's go against them this season than other clubs.

 

[Berbasbullet]

Have they ever said why they won't broadcast the VAR Comms in real time?

If they did, I think people would trust it more.

Didn’t they say something like it is a bit hectic and viewers might not understand? I might have made that up….

It’s mad when you think about it, rugby do it very well (I know football is different), but it would make things so much more transparent and even if I disagree with the decision I’d love to know their workings out.

 

[Kostov]

Since they didn't give him anything, shouldn't that twat Felipe get a retrospective ban?

 

[Alex99]

Since they didn't give him anything, shouldn't that twat Felipe get a retrospective ban?

Probably come up with some "as VAR cleared it during the game, no further action can be taken and the incident can not be reviewed again" line.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

Wasnt it about 10 seconds before the ref blew the final whistle?

No.

 

[Kostov]

Probably come up with some "as VAR cleared it during the game, no further action can be taken and the incident can not be reviewed again" line.

We'd be very amateurish in accepting that. The club has journalist on the line, I guess we can make a hell storm on those corrupt refs.

 

[duffer]

No.

Do you know when it happened then? I had only just turned over from our magnificent victory over dirty Leeds.

Edit, just checked. It was in the 100th minute. The game was over.

 

[Alex99]

Have they ever said why they won't broadcast the VAR Comms in real time?

If they did, I think people would trust it more.

Seem to remember it being reported that doing so is against FIFA (or maybe it was UEFA) rules.

It would also force them to be more professional in how they communicate. Some of the audio they have released has been farcical, with nicknames, people talking over each other, and no proper confirmation of what is being checked or what the decision is.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

Do you know when it happened then? I had only just turned over from our magnificent victory over dirty Leeds.

Edit, just checked. It was in the 100th minute. The game was over.

Forest had at least one (if not 2) moves into our half after that. It still matters. A red card isn't insignificant.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Forest had at least one (if not 2) moves into our half after that. It still matters. A red card isn't insignificant.

Have to admit, I was quite pleased he wasn’t sent off. The game was basically over and a red card would have meant he missed the Liverpool game.

 

[Samid]

We'd be very amateurish in accepting that. The club has journalist on the line, I guess we can make a hell storm on those corrupt refs.

All will be forgiven if he scores the winner against the dippers this weekend.

 

[Mike Smalling]

Forest had at least one (if not 2) moves into our half after that. It still matters. A red card isn't insignificant.

Even if the referee already had his whistle in his mouth to end the game, it should be a red card. Doesn't matter one bit.

We've even had a penalty awarded to us after the final whistle back in the early days of VAR, so they could do something similar here as well, for all I care. The impact on the game is a secondary concern - punishing violent conduct is what matters.

 

[Posh Red]

It's a bit of a myth this. Look at the ESPN guide,
How VAR decisions affect each Premier League club in 2023-24 - ESPN

Liverpool and Wolves (both -3) and Sheffield United (-4) have had more decision's go against them this season than other clubs.

These stats tell you nothing about the subjectivity of decision making.

 

[Doracle]

Get rid of the “clear and obvious” wording. If the VAR ref thinks that there is a possible error then have the on-field ref go to the screen and they can talk it through, with tje comms being broadcast. If it’s felt that more certainty is needed, have two refs in the VAR box and if both think there’s a possible error then have the on-field ref go to the screen. This really shouldn’t be difficult.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

Even if the referee already had his whistle in his mouth to end the game, it should be a red card. Doesn't matter one bit.

We've even had a penalty awarded to us after the final whistle back in the early days of VAR, so they could do something similar here as well, for all I care. The impact on the game is a secondary concern - punishing violent conduct is what matters.

100% agree with you.

 

[Grylte]

Still can’t believe there were posters in the match day thread who thought this was a shoulder charge.

Clearly goes in with an arm and a hip and makes zero attempt to play the ball, he’s not even looking at it.

A United defender does that and I’d think “you idiot”.

That is a clear penalty for me.
Anywhere else on the pitch and it's a freekick, and noone would've disagreed.
Those 2 defenders who sandwich Rashford, doesn't touch the ball at all.

 

[Oranges038]

That is a clear penalty for me.
Anywhere else on the pitch and it's a freekick, and noone would've disagreed.
Those 2 defenders who sandwich Rashford, doesn't touch the ball at all.

Come off it. That's 2 defenders getting their body between the player and the ball and shielding it out of play. It's good defending and shouldn't be called a foul anywhere on the pitch.

 

[Alex99]

Come off it. That's 2 defenders getting their body between the player and the ball and shielding it out of play. It's good defending and shouldn't be called a foul anywhere on the pitch.

Said it another comment, but it's a challenge that has an increasing likelihood of being called as a foul the closer it occurs to our own goal.

Rashford tries to start a counter from the edge of our box and that happens, and the ref is definitely blowing for a free-kick.

 

[Grylte]

Come off it. That's 2 defenders getting their body between the player and the ball and shielding it out of play. It's good defending and shouldn't be called a foul anywhere on the pitch.

I think you need to watch the replay again, the one on the left (from our pov) is running straight into Rashford, shoulder barging him off balance.
It is a foul anywhere else on the pitch, and therefor should have been a penalty.

 

[Berbasbullet]

I think you need to watch the replay again, the one on the left (from our pov) is running straight into Rashford, shoulder barging him off balance.
It is a foul anywhere else on the pitch, and therefor should have been a penalty.

Exactly, shoulder to shoulder wasn’t it? So not a foul.
I would be disgusted if that was given against us, so I can’t complain when we don’t get the reverse.

 

[Bertie Wooster]

I think you need to watch the replay again, the one on the left (from our pov) is running straight into Rashford, shoulder barging him off balance.

It is a foul anywhere else on the pitch, and therefor should have been a penalty.

Said it another comment, but it's a challenge that has an increasing likelihood of being called as a foul the closer it occurs to our own goal.

Rashford tries to start a counter from the edge of our box and that happens, and the ref is definitely blowing for a free-kick.

Yeah, I definitely think in other areas of the pitch that's more often than not a foul. Look at Casemiro's recent bookings when he's been looking to avoid contact and there's barely any, but got booked because the minimal contact prevented a breakaway, etc.

That defender that comes in and just deliberately barges Rashford is doing far more than Casemiro did in those bookings, but because it was in the penalty box, and because maybe it maybe looked to the onfield official like it was 'two defenders just using their bodies' etc, then it wasn't given.

But I'm sure he'd have won a foul more often than not outside of the box for that. But then we know there's unofficially different rules for inside and outside the box and so that decision didn't annoy me too much as I feel it would have applied at the other end as well. What does annoy me more is when something like that does happen in our box and suddenly it's a 'stonewall' penalty to the pundits, or at the very least a 'I've seen them given' situation. Whereas it's a penalty shout to us so it just gets glossed over.

 

[Oranges038]

I think you need to watch the replay again, the one on the left (from our pov) is running straight into Rashford, shoulder barging him off balance.
It is a foul anywhere else on the pitch, and therefor should have been a penalty.

Right and we've see Haaland do this to defenders to get in front of them and score. Should those goals be chalked off for a foul on the defender?

Defenders use their arms to get across in front of him and shield the ball out of play. This shit happens all the time in games, it's probably one of the first things young defenders will learn when running for the ball with an attacker. Get your body and arms across in front to slow them down and block the path to the ball.

It's just not a foul and shouldn't be anywhere on else the pitch, it's absolutely pathetic to be looking for it. He gets in his body across and in front and doesn't push him from behind. It's just good strong defending to get between the player and the ball and see it out of play.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Since when is shoulder barging another player a foul? It’s a legitimate way to challenge for the ball.

 

[Bertie Wooster]

Since when is shoulder barging another player a foul? It’s a legitimate way to challenge for the ball.

I thought shoulder to shoulder was legal, I didn't think charging in and shouldering a running player in the hip / chest and knocking them over was legal? I thought that would still be a foul if it wasn't shoulder to shoulder?

 

[Bertie Wooster]

Exactly, shoulder to shoulder wasn’t it? So not a foul.
I would be disgusted if that was given against us, so I can’t complain when we don’t get the reverse.

I'm watching the clip and I can't see how where the Forest man barges into Rashford is Marcus' shoulder? The Forest man uses his shoulder, yeah, but he barges into Rashford's hip / chest, knocking him over. So that's not classed under the legal shoulder to shoulder, is it?

There's, unofficially, different rules in and out the box so I wouldn't necessarily expect a penalty for that. But it is actually a foul, and I'd be surprised if it wasn't given in most situations outside the box.

 

[duffer]

Since when is shoulder barging another player a foul? It’s a legitimate way to challenge for the ball.

Two players jostling for the ball is one thing.

When it gets into Ice Hockey territory becomes a foul.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Two players jostling for the ball is one thing.

When it gets into Ice Hockey territory becomes a foul.

So long as the contact is shoulder to shoulder I don’t think there’s an issue.

 

[arnie_ni]

Two players jostling for the ball is one thing.

When it gets into Ice Hockey territory becomes a foul.

Did you think it should have been a pen? I'm still unsure. It should be but they are rarely given for that sort of contact

 

[arnie_ni]

Still can’t believe there were posters in the match day thread who thought this was a shoulder charge.

Clearly goes in with an arm and a hip and makes zero attempt to play the ball, he’s not even looking at it.

A United defender does that and I’d think “you idiot”.

So long as the contact is shoulder to shoulder I don’t think there’s an issue.

It doesn't look like rahsfords shoulder though, it's more his chest area.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

So long as the contact is shoulder to shoulder I don’t think there’s an issue.

It's not shoulder to shoulder, he barges into him. It's an in concreto evaluation of the force applied - it's a foul that is usually given when there is excessive force. When seen at full speed, it's quite clear it's a foul, and it's not particularly a hard one.

 

[duffer]

So long as the contact is shoulder to shoulder I don’t think there’s an issue.

I don't want you reffing my games!



"No foul, shoulder to shoulder".

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It doesn't look like rahsfords shoulder though, it's more his chest area.

Yeah, kind of? Although he’s coming in from the side, rather than front or back. Rashford lifts his arm up right before the contact though. Which makes it look worse.

Still think I’d be livid if we were penalised after one of our defenders made a challenge like that.