If that challenge blocked a counter attack just inside our own half, it would have been whistled straight away and the defender that made the challenge would have accepted his yellow without any argument.
VAR, Refs and Linesmen | General Discussion
- Thread starter Samid
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Given that the Forest player was not in control of the ball and just ran into Rashford, yeah, I'd give a pen.
"It's a contact sport"
Enjoyed watching that. But he clearly pushed him from behind. So not the same scenario.
You lot need to watch some GAA if you want to see what a genuinely forceful shoulder to shoulder challenge looks like.
They're wearing helmets. I don't watch wimpy sports.
I’ll have to watch it again, it just felt like good defending to me but I’m probably wrong.
That one’s shoulder to the back of the shoulder blade. So not shoulder to shoulder.
That clip is from back in the days when helmets were optional!
The stones on those lads to decide “nah, I’ll be grand” and not bother wearing one.
But that's not what happened.
It's not a foul nor should it be, as per the rules, the ball is within playing distance and the players have a right to fairly charge the opponent. That's what happened here.
To try and claim that should be given as a penalty is ridiculous.
Love that. Hurling is such a great sport, requires physicality and immense skill.
Should send some of these Utd lads down to Offaly or somewhere to play a bit of Junior B Hurling in the summer to harden them up a bit.
Running into someone with the shoulder first, isn't shoulder to shoulder. That is shoulder barging.
The guy on the left (from our pov) isn't running in front of Rashford, he is running into Rashford, there's a difference.
Exactly.
The two players get their bodies across in front of him to shield the ball as they are allowed to do per the rules.
It's not a foul or a penalty, it's just good physical defending.
When I was working in Ireland we set up a 5 a side game on the project, I used to be a more physical than skilled player shall we say, but the GAA boys took it to another level. They just didn't realise the elbows, barges etc weren't allowed/expected in 5 a side, and behaved as they would on the GAA pitch. Definitely made it interesting, although more than one concussion with people having their heads bounced off a wall
Footballers are generally tough as it gets, they're just also cheaters who pretend to be hurt.
Look at 3 secs in, the left Forest player adjusting his body to push into Rashford with the shoulder, with the clear intention of pushing him off balance.
That is not "shoulder to shoulder", he's using his shoulder as a "weapon" to push Rashy.
Look at the guy on the left, he's not going in front of Rashford, he's going into him.
They both get in front of him. It is just good old fashioned strong armed defending, never a foul.
It was obstruction. Neither player challenged the ball, if it was one player I think there might be an argument but what actually happened was one player charged Rashford from the side clattering him into the other defender which cleaned him out. It’s not a case of shoulder to shoulder or “Rashford should be stronger”. Rashford had stolen a yard on them and what you are saying is basically you have licence to hurl yourself at any attacker and clean them out as long as it’s not a “trip” that’s fine.
This is really strange. You have a Chelsea fan swearing United should have been awarded a pen, and a United fan arguing it was a shoulder to shoulder challenge and not a pen. Stranger still, I agree with the Chelsea supporter.
It's a clear penalty - he rushes in from the back with force and hits his side/chest - in no way is it a clear shoulder to shoulder. A shoulder to shoulder is more of a mutual challenge. Here the player barges into Rashford who is getting to the ball. The defender isn't interested in the ball.
Nope, what I've said is both players come in from the side, get in front and shield the ball out of play.
It's absolute nonsense to suggest that should be a penalty.
I've long said that VAR isn't about giving right decisions, its just about giving different decisions.
I honestly think that throat grab would have been a red-card had it happened in the 60th minute...the fact that it happened in the 96th, there definitely felt like a whiff of "I really can't be bothered with this" about the decision.
I honestly think that throat grab would have been a red-card had it happened in the 60th minute...the fact that it happened in the 96th, there definitely felt like a whiff of "I really can't be bothered with this" about the decision.
"Shoulder to shoulder" is a very misunderstood rule. Many seem to think that as far as you hit roughly in the shoulder area of a player with your shoulder, it's all good.
Shoulder to shoulder means that you're running next to eachother pushing eachother with the shoulder, if one falls it's not a foul.
Just out of curiosity, do you know what "In front of" means? The guy on the left never gets in front of, or tries to get in front of Rashford.
I think the penalty shout was the same as the one we got against them at Old Trafford earlier this season, the defender has rushed accross and barged him in the side while not making any kind of attempt to win the ball so it should have been a penalty in my opinion.
As a Chelsea fan, you'll remember Hazard doing this a lot when running for a ball, he was great at it, even when he was dribbling he'd run across in front of players and use his feet and body to trip them up to shield the ball.
Only if you’re in the vicinity of the ball. He’s nowhere near it and he’s not competing for it either.
There was a worse one in the West Ham/Bournemouth game the night before. Clear push in the back from Kudus inexplicably not given.
Aye, watch the video again, both players get their bodies across and infront if him and block his path. It's brilliant defending.
That's just a tally of all VAR decisions for/against. People are talking about the wrong decisions that happen to help a given team, many of which never even get checked by VAR in the first place. On that score, it's very clear that some teams benefit immensely while others are constantly getting fecked.
It’s also not just his shoulder, he puts his leg across him too.
The only time the guy on the left is in front of Rashford, is after Rashy loses his balance and turns his body towards him.
He ran right into him, not in front, i struggle to understand how you can see that as running in front of him.
Everything gets checked by VAR though. If The referee doesn't make a decision and VAR doesn't intervene either then I'm not sure what you mean?
Have you got an example of a wrong decision that happened to help a given team that wasn't checked by VAR?
He puts his arm across and infront, then gets his body in front. It's good strong defending from both players. No foul, no penalty. Very easy decision.
Exactly - it's a fair duel where a stronger player can outmuscle a faster player for instance. Barging into someone from behind is not a shoulder to shoulder challenge.
VAR spent 5 minutes to check Casemiro's goal clearly hoping to find an angle to rule it out. Didn't spend a second on a potential foul of Rashford or the choke on Bruno
People can call us tinfoil hat or not but there is a definite ABU going on when it comes to ref/var decisions.
People can call us tinfoil hat or not but there is a definite ABU going on when it comes to ref/var decisions.
The ESPN stats dont include stats for occurances where VAR has incorrectly stuck with the on-field decision, for example when TAA scored the winner for Liverpool at Anfield against Fulham VAR should have intervened and disallowed the goal as there was a clear foul on a Fulham defender which played a part in the goal being scored but VAR didnt intervene they incorrectly stuck with their on-field decision and the goal stood so that VAR assistance isnt in those stats.
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People seeing this and sticking to their guns of "it's shoulder against shoulder" or "good physical defending" are absolutely mental. It's a very clear foul.
It was a penalty. Weird it wasn't reviewed properly. Like the Felipe red.
I would definitely go with the absolutely mental side of the debate being those who come out with stuff like “using his shoulder as a weapon”. Or implying that pushing another player off balance is somehow against the laws of the game. It’s a nothing challenge. If he was shepherding the ball out of play nobody would make anything of it.
It's even getting me wondering if we're talking about the same incident. Not particularly weird, no. It would have benefited us, so...