Do you think every time referee made mistake manager should show his ugly face to officials? No. Klopp got lot of leverage from referees already. It's long overdue in my opinion.
VAR, Refs and Linesmen | General Discussion
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Yes I have watched it. No penalty for me, Geoff.
No, every human makes mistakes.
In this case, everyone who saw the game would agree that referee lost the game from start. I was even surprised there weren't any red cards or more aggresive behaviour on pitch because referee allowed to much. Suddenly from nowhere what was allowed wasn't anymore. Just like that. Same situations, different rules. In such tight game emotions are going to be high. Klopp deserved red but I understand his behaviour in that moment because of situation in the right corner where referee just let ManCity players throw down Liverpool players without referee doing anything.
To be fair, of the three pen shouts, that was the one in the ground I was shocked wasn't give. Looked absolutely nailed on.
All i am asking was every manager should be treated as same. Plenty of times top teams get away with decisions but doesn't mean other managers should shout at referee. Klopp did lot previously but got away with it but finally he got what he deserved.
Of course referee performances need to be improved.But his teams one of beneficiaries from bad decisions as well in games. So he just shut up and get on with it.
I don't disagree with you in that. Every manager should be treated as same. And you are right, some managers get away because they are to fameous. Klopp should have walked lot of times before and as I said, he deserved this time to. But I still understand why he reacted why he did in that situation.
Newcastle were actually using a tactic of rolling the ball short for a free kick all game, the keeper did it to Trippier loads. They got away with shit loads in that second half yesterday, genuinely felt like playing Burnley.
I understood the general feelings of refereeing. They need to be improved. They need to be consistent for all teams and all games. Some times they let go shirt pulls then some times they wanted to punish. With var they should bring that consistency.
They interpret things as they go along. For one team they give penalty but for same incident they didn't give for another team. Same for handball as well. They didn't show consistency even after var came to play.
These things need to be improved. If referee didn't show consistency then var should intervene to get that consistency. If consistency come to play then questions will get reduced.
Same for managers too. They are humans and reacted to things badly. But they need to be punished for their actions if overstepped. For that also consistency needed. Klopp pep or Jose or whoever if they overstepped they should be punished.
If you want to cut the abuse out, improve the quality of the refereeing. It's the same as many things, policing, politics, the poor standards and lack of accountability is pushing people to the edge, and they refuse to look at themselves to see why.
A bit late to the party but would anyone tell me why the Sancho one was not a pen? Just curious.
Because it would likely have won us the game, and Pawson wasn't having that, the cnut.
Remember when VAR inexplicably didn't overrule this one against Everton in 2019?
Yeah, that was Pawson. Imagine being this fecking bad at your job and still keeping it.
Yeah, that was Pawson. Imagine being this fecking bad at your job and still keeping it.
How is Paswon with his low standard refereeing still a ref in the biggest league in the world. He is sh1t.
I think the fans are to blame.
It’s an incredibly tough job being a referee. Split second decisions based around incredibly fast moving events, in an end to end sport where they’re supposed to keep pace with elite athletes or get left miles away from the action. Literally impossible to get every big decision right. But the fans won’t accept this. They piss and moan and make accusations about corruption and won’t accept anything other than perfection from the referee.
That’s why we end up with an atrocity like VAR ruining the game, and a chronic shortage of referees in grassroots football because nobody wants to get dogs abuse every weekend from petulant wankers who are convinced the world is conspiring against them.
Nah, whilst everything you say is true, its always been true. None of that is to blame for the current attitudes towards referees.
What has changed is the arrival of VAR, and what VAR is done is highlight just how bad the referees are. Before, referees made mistakes but it was understandable as they didn't have help, and it wasn't so obviously highlighted during and after the games. When you have all that, plus the holier than thou attitude from the PGMOL, it's a recipe for what we are now seeing.
Not really. It’s just highlighted how incredibly subjective the interpretation of slow motion replays can be. Which we already knew from watching Tv pundits constantly disagree about replays of the same event. Likewise opinions on here are always split on almost every controversial incident.
What’s new is the even deeper sense of unfairness felt by fans when VAR officials interpret incidents in a different way to their own. Which means accusations of corruption and deliberate bias are far more common. That, in turn, further erodes the status of referees. And makes their jobs even tougher. Especially at the non-league, grassroots level where they’re literally paid peanuts to be accused of trying to cheat every weekend.
It’s a shite situation and is causing a major shortage of referees. In the schoolboy league in Dublin I’m involved with there’s talks of having whole seasons where certain age groups don’t play any competitive games because there’s not enough new referees coming through. And who can blame them?
Bang on
FFS. Hit him twice, not once.
That might be the clearest of all the penalties that should have been given in that game.
It was as though Pawson was told not to give penalties. Not sure what more needed to be done. Perhaps an axe to the leg?
Why is it farfetched that these refs, linesmen and VAR people are not corrupt and betting behind the scenes? They are human after all.
This at least I've seen cases not given. Some sort of "legal challenge" by PL standard. But a direct kick to the leg like Sancho's one and no pen was so weird. I was like
Haha, yeah that is one example of how perceiving is not always believing. For as long as I've watched football, it don't matter if you break your opponents legs, if he gets his shot off..it's always just a goal kick and never a penalty. It's like the refs think theres an old rule that says it's too late to blow for a pen when the ball is out of play. It's such a normalised situation and all refs mostly do this and it's really only a cowardly way of not wanting to make a big decision, because the little decision is so quick to make right after. If the keeper comes out and misses the ball, he barely even needs to touch the player, it's so obvious they'll blow a pen just cause of how it looks. You get the ball or it's a pen, but like this and in the Sancho instance. The lines are blurred into vague terms like "softness" and even "clumsy by the attacker". The decision is more difficult because of circumstances, but all things being equal both of those are nailed on pens. Defender tackled, didn't get the ball, and gained an unfair advantage of it, which the refs job is to award a penalty for.This at least I've seen cases not given. Some sort of "legal challenge" by PL standard. But a direct kick to the leg like Sancho's one and no pen was so weird. I was like
I said that yesterday. Initially thought it was sancho but that replay, I'm not sure how it was given.
What did he do?
A penalty was not awarded to Sunderland and then Blackburn went on to score.
But we have VAR now. Isn't the whole purpose of VAR was to fix these issues?
I don't know what softness he might think the Sancho's one was but it was clearly that Longstaff illegally obstructed and stopped Sancho in the penalty area while Sancho was running with the ball. He didn't even touch the ball but kick Sancho's leg ffs. And most players in that case would do their best to not get their leg broken. Or does it really require a broken leg here to be not considered 'soft'?
The whole incident was so weird and wtf imo. Even if the ref made a mistake what VAR was doing? There was not even a check.
Fairly amusing trying to watch Dermot justify why var’s decision on the Newcastle penalty was ok, whilst describing it as a foul. The two ex footballers just tell it as it is - both the Newcastle one and the Sancho one are clear fouls and that’s what var should catch.
The “clear and obvious” test is a good one in theory in my view but the bar for what falls within it is leading to massive inconsistency from var. If the var ref thinks it’s a foul, then there would be no harm in them asking the ref to go and take another look at it. If the ref themselves then continued to stand by their original decision fair enough.
At the moment the bar for var intervention is generally far too high. As incompetent as Pawson is, I’m pretty certain he’d have given the Sancho one as a penalty with the benefit of the replay showing the clear contact that was made.
So that challenge on Rashford in the box. Would be keen to know how it’s different to the one that got City’s goal pulled back
Hate it, it's so much bs
Credit to the ref, great advantage.
That would have been a soft pen for me
He knows it's back to the championship after that one doesn't he.He looked absolutely gutted@GifLord can we get a gif of the ref after our second goal?
But do you think it’s a free kick outside the box?
I'd need to see it again, but there's that ships long sailed, you need more of a "foul" inside the box, rightly or wrongly