VAR, Refs and Linesmen | General Discussion

[Annihilate Now!]

It is pretty ridiculous that every game has 2 refs now - but these refs are instructed to pretty much work independently from each other.

If the on field ref thinks something - thats pretty much gospel unless the second ref can somehow ascertain that an incident has passed an arbitrary threshold of "clear and obvious" - at which point his word then becomes gospel, because the ref won't overrule a VAR call.

Here's a crazy concept, why not just have both ref's working together? The bloke on the pitch refs the game, the other bloke ref's it on the monitor, they're constantly discussing things and then coming to decisions together, via the use of a replays/whatever.

 

[duffer]

A leading referees' charity has called for an inquiry into the touchline behaviour of managers after ugly scenes at several Premier League matches.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63281933



What do we think?

Refs have the power within the current laws to curb this themselves. Start dishing out yellow cards for any any and all dissent and within a few weeks it'll stop.

They could also try being less shit while they're at it.

 

[Bestie07]

Clear and obvious is such an arbitrary term.

 

[Mogget]

Let's be clear, if Neville thinks the standard of refereeing is the highest it's been in a long time then he's incredibly out of touch. The overwhelming majority of fans think it's as bad as it's ever been.

There's lots of reasons for that, and how we implement VAR is a big part of that. But it's still poor refereeing.

Fans of every top 6 club are convinced there's a refereeing agenda against their team. I dunno if using the opinions of tribalistic fans is a great barometer.

 

[Jeppers7]

That is a bloody goal, ffs!

Whilst it’s blatantly obvious that had this been the other way around it would be huge news...it’s no suprise that it’s received so little coverage.

What I think should happen here is that the ref and VAR should have to explain on what grounds the goal was disallowed.

If the ref didn’t see the Newcastle player play the ball after the whistle then VAR should have intervened. If you touch the ball after the whistle goes the ball is in play. Had the keeper touched it to the defender it wouldn’t have been disallowed.

 

[arnie_ni]

Nah, they rolled it to another player like that every free kick in that area. It was a conscious tactic, the referee fecked up.


Love both looked like they were never penalties. Replays haven’t convinced me fully on the Sancho one but Cristiano’s was never a penalty.

Have you watched my clip above? It's a clear pen. He gets clattered

 

[arnie_ni]

Fans of every top 6 club are convinced there's a refereeing agenda against their team. I dunno if using the opinions of tribalistic fans is a great barometer.

No one thinks its an agenda. Its shite all round for everyone. We've all admitted here that Newcastle should have had a penalty as well

 

[arnie_ni]

It was a clear tug by Haaland.

Thought Thiago was lucky near the end. O.k he slipped but it's still two feet going into another player which could cause bad injury.

Haven't seen any of the Man. United game so will wait until MOTD 2 and see these apparent decisions and comment further.

Did you watch MOTD?

What did they say?
What did you think?

 

[duffer]

No one thinks its an agenda. Its shite all round for everyone. We've all admitted here that Newcastle should have had a penalty as well

You must have 30% of the forum on ignore I reckon!

 

[arnie_ni]

You must have 30% of the forum on ignore I reckon!

We obviously yap about united decisions because we are united fans but if anyone is saying its just us that gets wrong deicisons they're mad. It happens every match, it's horrendously bad and var has exasperated it

 

[SAF is the GOAT]

 

[Zlatan 7]

I’ve never been a fan and I don’t think I ever will be, nothing has happened they would change my mind, just reinforced my opinion of how unsuitable it is for use in football.

that Man City goal is a good example, the ref is reffing the game how he sees fit, let’s those niggly fouls go all match. It when there’s a goal and it’s put under the microscope he calls a foul. It’s making a shambles of the sport.

goal is scored, can’t celebrate it because you know the var check is coming, watch the var replay and still don’t know how the ref is going to call it. Football is not black and white enough for var

 

[Pascal Quiff]

But the ref did as he said and allowed play on. He gave the goal until a var check and it was a clear foul there's no way to argue it wasn't a foul and once he's shown it then he has no choice

Stop talking sense!

I've said the same thing in work today. The City disallowed goal had to be looked at as it massively impacted the result of the game and perhaps the league. I understand Pep's frustration but the referee was between a rock and a hard place on that incident.

 

[Ayush_reddevil]

I have always been supportive of VAR but even I am starting to struggle to back it now. That disallowed goal is a classic example of what is black & white and if VAR can’t help with that then I don’t even know what it is there for

 

[Ayush_reddevil]

Ronaldo’s one was correctly ruled out. The player was pretty obviously only rolling it back to the keeper for him to actually take the free kick. If there’s any doubt, it has to go to the defending team there.

Penalty decisions were shockers though. I thought the Sancho one was stonewall.

But the refs Aren’t supposed to ref based on what they believe the intent of the player was. They have to ref as per the rules and he clearly passed to his teammate so there is absolutely no reason to not allow it

 

[Mr Pigeon]

A leading referees' charity has called for an inquiry into the touchline behaviour of managers after ugly scenes at several Premier League matches.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63281933



What do we think?

Refs have the power within the current laws to curb this themselves. Start dishing out yellow cards for any any and all dissent and within a few weeks it'll stop.

They could also try being less shit while they're at it.

After all of the terrible refereeing decisions, as well as the abuse being hurled at the refs, it's not surprising to see this organisation ignoring one of those issues.

 

[padr81]

But the refs Aren’t supposed to ref based on what they believe the intent of the player was. They have to ref as per the rules and he clearly passed to his teammate so there is absolutely no reason to not allow it

Been looking into this a bit more and apparently the ref has his arm up in like a "wait" motion, signalling to Pope not to play the ball and wait to take the freekick, which is why he's standing there doing nothing, which makes the whole whistle pointless. So basically he whistled to play then told Newcastle to wait, Trippier rolled the ball to Pope who was waiting for the signal to play on. Its a weird one as I always though you played to the whistle.

 

[cyberman]

Been looking into this a bit more and apparently the ref has his arm up in like a "wait" motion, signalling to Pope not to play the ball and wait to take the freekick, which is why he's standing there doing nothing, which makes the whole whistle pointless. So basically he whistled to play then told Newcastle to wait, Trippier rolled the ball to Pope who was waiting for the signal to play on. Its a weird one as I always though you played to the whistle.

The arm up is signalling an indirect free kick. It’s not raised to signal play but it will stay raised until a second player touches the ball so they can then, theoretically, shoot on goal

 

[padr81]

The arm up is signalling an indirect free kick. It’s not raised to signal play but it will stay raised until a second player touches the ball so they can then, theoretically, shoot on goal

But he never dropped the arm after trippier played the ball, don't get me wrong for me I still feel its a goal, a shitty thing to do by Ronaldo but a legal goal nonetheless, I'm just offering a counter to the above (and my own opinion yesterday), that maybe the ref wanted Pope to wait.

If I was ref it's a goal but it very much now looks like he was covering his own mistake of blowing too early, telling Pope to wait and then being redfaced when Ronaldo scored a legit but unsporting goal. Basically he fecked up, not Pope, Ronaldo scored so he ruled it out to cover his own stupidity.

 

[cyberman]

But he never dropped the arm after trippier played the ball, don't get me wrong for me I still feel its a goal, a shitty thing to do by Ronaldo but a legal goal nonetheless, I'm just offering a counter to the above (and my own opinion yesterday), that maybe the ref wanted Pope to wait.

If I was ref it's a goal but it very much now looks like he was covering his own mistake of blowing too early, telling Pope to wait and then being redfaced when Ronaldo scored a legit but unsporting goal. Basically he fecked up, not Pope, Ronaldo scored so he ruled it out to cover his own stupidity.

The second player has to touch the ball for him to lower his arm. Pope never does, Ronaldo does.
It’s a feck up that should have went to VAR. unless I’m misremembering he whistles a few times and it’s a bad attempt to stop Ronaldo shooting because he knows he fecked it, he knows he’s missed something. If Ronaldo doesn’t shoot then it’s not a big deal.
That’s what gives it away for me.

 

[padr81]

The second player has to touch the ball for him to lower his arm. Pope never does, Ronaldo does.
It’s a feck up that should have went to VAR. unless I’m misremembering he whistles a few times and it’s a bad attempt to stop Ronaldo shooting because he knows he fecked it, he knows he’s missed something. If Ronaldo doesn’t shoot then it’s not a big deal.
That’s what gives it away for me.

I agree that, either way its shocking by the ref and should have stood.

 

[Ayush_reddevil]

Been looking into this a bit more and apparently the ref has his arm up in like a "wait" motion, signalling to Pope not to play the ball and wait to take the freekick, which is why he's standing there doing nothing, which makes the whole whistle pointless. So basically he whistled to play then told Newcastle to wait, Trippier rolled the ball to Pope who was waiting for the signal to play on. Its a weird one as I always though you played to the whistle.

I am fine with that but this is why we need microphones then . Let’s see them make an idiot of themselves properly rather than this current scenario where we just accept what they did and try to understand ourselves why they did it

 

[ayushreddevil9]

If you go a few more days behind, Lisandro penalty against Soceidad. It clearly seems that there is a campaign going on against us. Not like I believe it but this is not a seldom occurrence anymore.

 

[Bubz27]

Fans of every top 6 club are convinced there's a refereeing agenda against their team. I dunno if using the opinions of tribalistic fans is a great barometer.

But those same tribalistic fans are seeing decisions from games not involving their teams and seeing obvious and clear mistakes, almost weekly, from referees and VAR

 

[padr81]

I am fine with that but this is why we need microphones then . Let’s see them make an idiot of themselves properly rather than this current scenario where we just accept what they did and try to understand ourselves why they did it

I'd love ref's to be mic'd up just like rugby. I think it'd be great, I also think they should speak about big decisions after matches so we can at least understand their thinking. It'd be a huge step forward.

 

[SAF is the GOAT]

 

[mu4c_20le]

Is a pen but the way jadon went down was a little weird. I think after Ronaldo tried to be cheeky we ended up in the refs shitlist for the rest of the afternoon.

Still, VAR should be doing their job.

 

[90 + 5min]

A leading referees' charity has called for an inquiry into the touchline behaviour of managers after ugly scenes at several Premier League matches.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63281933



What do we think?

Refs have the power within the current laws to curb this themselves. Start dishing out yellow cards for any any and all dissent and within a few weeks it'll stop.

They could also try being less shit while they're at it.

Why do you need inquiry? Just send off people. Does he also think about inquiry about poor standards of refereeing to?

While I understand that managers and players need to behave, I really can't blame Klopp in this case. I had some hope that tenHag would go all in, in after match interview, about refereeing in our games.

As I always said, let referees have mic on, let us have insight in VAR room with video and mics on. Why is there 0 transparency about decisions made in this multi-billion industry? Lets start with that.

 

[duffer]

Why do you need inquiry? Just send off people. Does he also think about inquiry about poor standards of refereeing to?

While I understand that managers and players need to behave, I really can't blame Klopp in this case. I had some hope that tenHag would go all in, in after match interview, about refereeing in our games.

As I always said, let referees have mic on, let us have insight in VAR room with video and mics on. Why is there 0 transparency about decisions made in this multi-billion industry? Lets start with that.

I can absolutely blame Klopp, he's a grown man. Screaming at someone like that is outrageous behaviour and it should stop, regardless of how shit the refs are.

 

[90 + 5min]

I can absolutely blame Klopp, he's a grown man. Screaming at someone like that is outrageous behaviour and it should stop, regardless of how shit the refs are.

I understand his frustration. Is he right? No. Thats why he deserved red card. But I do understand his frustration. So I don't blame him. It is no secret that referees standard are very poor since I don't even know when and VAR is having meltdown every week since it was introduced. Lets start with fixing that. I've given advice what could be done. Mics on every referee and mics/video from VAR room. So easy. That would not just be for us fans, but referees aswell. If managers or players behavior are problems that would certanly calm them down to some level when they know that whole world is listning.

 

[cyberman]

It literally fits every criteria for a pen.
Any other industry has someone make these awful decisions then wink to the crowd as they go off would result in a full investigation

 

[Catalandevil]

Football has become too important to really on the current referee system. Ronaldo's goal was an obvious goal. What was the reasons to disallow it? The penalty on Sancho was clear as well. Yesterday during El Clasico, the last goal was offsite, and the VAR draw the lines incorrectly.

Other referee's systems should be developed and tested, but the current one, is obviously not working.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Only thing because of which i am not THAT angry because of all that is that Newcastle should have got penalty first. That was clear pen also. And with 0-1 score, it is completely different game.

But it strikes me that best and richest league in the world, with best players, managers and everything, has awful refs.
Why refs need to be English? Hire best refs from other countries ffs. Fa has the money. And all this dross can learn in Championship how to be a good ref.

 

[NewYorkRed]

The calls are more annoying now because how can you see the Sancho one on VAR and still decide thats not a penalty? VAR is supposed to eliminate these kind of debates but it feels like its only made it worse. How they can’t figure out how to use replays to fix this stuff is beyond me.

 

[Ludens the Red]

Genuinely baffled by the controversy talk regarding citys disallowed goal. The argument being “the ref was letting things go” being the reasoning for that goal to be allowed is absolutely nonsensical. There were literally two fouls in the build up to that goal and both clear fouls by the law. A pull of the shirt and kicking the ball out the keepers hands.
Him letting a few harder challenges go does not mean everything must be allowed.
It wasn’t soft. Haaland literally stops Fabinho getting the ball by pulling his t shirt and him to the floor. It’s a fecking foul.

As for Craig Pawson, well he’s a complete bastard. Second to Anthony Taylor Imo in terms of being the worse referee in the country. He was so bad yesterday. Two wrong penalty calls, disallowing Ronaldos goal because he was stupid enough to blow his whistle. Twat.

Just seen Gabriel’s rescinded red, another farcical decision. Lashes out clearly, doesn’t matter if he doesn’t make connection.

 

[Bestie07]

Why does the on field decision have any bearing on the decision making of the VAR? All penalty and red card incidents should be adjusted independently of the decision made on the field. It's come to a point that on field referees are not making calls thinking that VAR will come to the rescue and then VAR refuses to overrule their colleague. It's shambolic.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Football refereeing is such a piss poor standard. Referee's should be made to have an interview after the game, explain their decision making on things like this.

It's a literal toss of the coin of if VAR will do anything at this point. I'm half convinced they're sat there on their phones playing candy crush or scrolling onlyfans.

The Sancho pen was a stone wall, I really don't understand it.

 

[JackRowley]

Football is the only sport that is a law unto itself. The only way to stop it is to introduce a time clock, that stops when ball is out of play. VAR should be used when players cheat, ie go down holding their face when They were clipped on the ankle.
Football is totally out of step with all other sports, and guess why? money money money

 

[arnie_ni]

Why does the on field decision have any bearing on the decision making of the VAR? All penalty and red card incidents should be adjusted independently of the decision made on the field. It's come to a point that on field referees are not making calls thinking that VAR will come to the rescue and then VAR refuses to overrule their colleague. It's shambolic.

That's the big issue I see. Ah I'll wave play on VAR will get it if it should be a pen.

Var,.hmm is that really clear and obvious, I'm not sure, play on.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

That's the big issue I see. Ah I'll wave play on VAR will get it if it should be a pen.

Var,.hmm is that really clear and obvious, I'm not sure, play on.

Agree, Ref-I will wait for VAR to make the decision. VAR - Ref didn't blow up can't be anything in it. Where's that coffee I asked for mate?