VAR, Refs and Linesmen | General Discussion

cyberman said:
But other pic shows it was in and that’s the point.
That’s why it should never have been disallowed, they went through how many instances to find one v many that shown it was in and ruled it out. You really have to be right above the ball to rule it out imo.
It just can’t be clear and obvious but there’s a strange acceptance that just because a line is involved that a ruling has to be made. If that were an equivalent tackle that they couldn’t quite see properly then there’s no way VAR gets involved imo
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It shows it was in, because at the time they froze the frame for that particualr pic, it was in. The pic showing it was out was obviously a few frames later.

If the ball goes out, you will always get pics of it in and pics of it out.
If the ball does not go out, you won't get a pic of it being out.
 
Red_toad said:
Didn't work that way for Garnacho though. People want consistency, VAR is worse than the crap decisions the Refs used to make, least if the Ref got it wrong you could celebrate the goal and not have to sit there for a few minutes waiting to see if VAR can find a fault.
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Yeah, but two wrongs don't make a right, I'm sure you'd agree. Just because they got it wrong against us, doesn't mean they should get it wrong the next time as well.

Specifically for situations where the ball may or may not have been out, I'd be fine in just removing that from the scope of what VAR can decide. They are relatively rare situations anyway, and the differences in camera angles across different stadiums makes it almost impossible to apply it consistently. Unless you could use something similar to goal line technology, I would be fine leaving it up to the ref and the linesmen.
 
Jeppers7 said:
I’m struggling to see why that goal was ruled out. It’s almost like VAR went through it with a tooth comb and said to the ref…do you think we could disallow it for this?

Today, the goal v Burnley disallowed for offside…then you look at the Palace goal against us and ask how:confused:
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Wasn’t Michael Oliver involved today and with the Ake that was allowed against Fulham? Shocking double standard.
 
duffer said:
Of course there's going to be a million different pics of the ball being in, because the ball was in until it was out. That totally depends on when the froze the frame.
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duffer said:
If one is clear and the other inconclusive, then you go with the clear one.
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I’ve not seen this particular incident that is being discussed but I love that these two points even had to be made :lol:
 
fergies coat said:
It seems Var decide who they want to win. Absolutely zero consistency. Get rid of it now!! It's ruined the game.
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I am starting to absolutely hate this shit.
We`ve had 4 goals disallowed now, unless i am missing some more. 4 goals that could have just as easily been given. But they decided, naah, on all 4 occasions. Then you see shit like this, the ball looks every little bit as out as Rashfords, then you have the push from Joelinton. At the same time not even remotely surprised that it is Newcastle that gets these extremely controversial decisions going their way. Hate them.
 
christinaa said:
Footballers in the studio all have their agenda and I hear what they say and take it with a pinch of salt. Even Gary utters so many erratic and stupid comments.

I respect your opinion but beg to differ.:)
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They're agenda is that they're hyping a product. They won't go after the refereeing standards. They won't go after the ownership biases (besides Gary). It's the same no matter the country. Pundits say things like "I don't know how you can justify not sending off Bruno there but I'm glad they didnt for the good of the game".

Weird how that all changes when you put the same people on a podcast. Neville, Shearer, Lineker are like different people.
 
sullydnl said:
Yep, ESPN track it every year.

Going into this gameweek we were the most negatively impacted, on a net -3.

Worth noting they're judging overturns. So if a bad decision is made on pitch and upheld by VAR, that won't feature as VAR hasn't actually impacted the decison. ESPN are just counting the times VAR actually changed the on-pitch call.
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Which VAR didn't do today, the decision was made by the on-field referee
 
duffer said:
The first pic to me, clearly shows it's out. Like really clearly.

Of course there's going to be a million different pics of the ball being in, because the ball was in until it was out. That totally depends on when the froze the frame.
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Which pic shows that it is clearly out? I haven`t seen it?
 
RedRocket9908 said:
I think Harry was offside but as I said earlier he was being fouled before he committed the offside offence so it should really have been a penalty.
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Maguire was offside when the ball was played, as it was a free kick he couldn't have been fouled before he was offside because the ball is not in play
 
Have they shown the lines for offside? Being in front of the gk, I cant see how Gordon could be onside unless he was behind the ball...
 
Although Arteta is not someone I like I do think he is doing it right going after VAR. I wish our manager or club weren’t afraid doing that. What Arteta is doing is making sure Arsenal keep getting decisions that favours them. We on other hand can look forward to every game ABU refeering. Just because we don’t say anything.
 
90 + 5min said:
Although Arteta is not someone I like I do think he is doing it right going after VAR. I wish our manager or club weren’t afraid doing that. What Arteta is doing is making sure Arsenal keep getting decisions that favours them. We on other hand can look forward to every game ABU refeering. Just because we don’t say anything.
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You want ETH to meltdown on top of this bad form? Because he's absolutely ripped the refs over the hysterically bad decisions United have had in this run, but in a controlled manner.

Arteta and Klopp have embarrassed themselves.
 
Red in STL said:
Maguire was offside when the ball was played, as it was a free kick he couldn't have been fouled before he was offside because the ball is not in play
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He may have been in an offside position but that does constitute an off-side offence, unless he also performs one of three or four actions.

Attempting to play the ball is one of them. If he was fouled while in an offside position and not attempting to play the ball or challenging a defender for the ball etc then a penalty can be given.

However, as far as I'm concerned swinging your leg when a ball passes somewhere in the vicinity shouldn't really count when you've no realistic chance of connecting with it.
 
duffer said:
Post 10.075 of this thread. Overhead at no side angle and you can see grass between the ball and the line.
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That doesn't show it's out. The ball isn't square. You could go outside and take a similar picture yourself with the ball being in.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Yeah, it was the same as the Rashford one. Daylight between line and base of ball but widest point probably touching the line.

Neither should have been given out. Way too tight to disallow a goal.
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Yeah the Rashford one was an awful call too.

I think today the potential foul was the biggest shout for VAR to overturn the goal. The other two were fine.
 
Zen said:
You want ETH to meltdown on top of this bad form? Because he's absolutely ripped the refs over the hysterically bad decisions United have had in this run, but in a controlled manner.

Arteta and Klopp have embarrassed themselves.
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Problem is unless you go half crazy they will laugh at you. We have lost so many points because of refs and VAR so tenHag should be unhappy with that. Arsenal, Tottenham, CP and ManCity. Lost games because of refs and VAR. That is 12 point we could have, with little luck.
 
duffer said:
Post 10.075 of this thread. Overhead at no side angle and you can see grass between the ball and the line.

If the pic has been faked then obviously that's something else.
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The ball for the United goal looks in play there. Definitely not over the line, assuming it's even a straight angle (which it isn't).
 
Withnail said:
He may have been in an offside position but that does constitute an off-side offence, unless he also performs one of three or four actions.

Attempting to play the ball is one of them. If he was fouled while in an offside position and not attempting to play the ball or challenging a defender for the ball etc then a penalty can be given.

However, as far as I'm concerned swinging your leg when a ball passes somewhere in the vicinity shouldn't really count when you've no realistic chance of connecting with it.
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That's not quite right, if Maguire is offside, which he was, that's means the ball is offically dead, and as such he can't be fouled
 
Red in STL said:
Maguire was offside when the ball was played, as it was a free kick he couldn't have been fouled before he was offside because the ball is not in play
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So you can foul people as much as you like before a free kick is taken? People should take advantage of this
 
Zlatan 7 said:
So you can foul people as much as you like before a free kick is taken? People should take advantage of this
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They do, at every corner and free kick in to the box, and they even get spoken to, ever seen a free kick or a penalty been given before the corner is taken, nope and you never will, because the ball has to be in play before it can be deemed a foul
 
Red in STL said:
They do, at every corner and free kick in to the box, and they even get spoken to, ever seen a free kick or a penalty been given before the corner is taken, nope and you never will, because the ball has to be in play before it can be deemed a foul
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He wasn't saying he was fouled before the free kick was taken. He's saying he was fouled before he had committed an offside offence.

I don't know if he was fouled as I'd have to watch it back but there is a window of time between when the free kick is taken and he's in an off-side position to when he was deemed to have committed an off-side offence. From the replays they've viewed on the VAR review it seems to be when he swung his leg at the ball.
 
duffer said:
We're either looking at different pics or one of us needs to visit an optician I guess.
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This was in by the way

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The goal standing was pretty dodgy, but at least debatable even if it looked a fairly clear foul on Gabriel, but what was awful was the deliberate forearm smash from a Newcastle player early in the match, how on earth was he able to stay on the pitch?
 
Zen said:
You want ETH to meltdown on top of this bad form? Because he's absolutely ripped the refs over the hysterically bad decisions United have had in this run, but in a controlled manner.

Arteta and Klopp have embarrassed themselves.
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Completely disagree. Managers need to put pressure on refs. Guys like SAF, Jose did it for years and it paid dividends.

It doesn't matter if it looks embarrassing or not. It's about putting enough pressure on refs that it plays in the back of their mind when they are making a big call against you.

Not using this as a stick to beat ETH, but most of our managers post SAF ( except Jose) haven't done enough of this.
 
duffer said:
Post 10.075 of this thread. Overhead at no side angle and you can see grass between the ball and the line.

If the pic has been faked then obviously that's something else.
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Are you trolling, mate? I'm genuinely asking because you don't usually do that but your post confuses me.

You can see grass underneath the ball but that doesn't say anything since it's spherical. If you're claiming you can see grass between the ball and the line, which is what would matter in that case, then surely you're not looking at the right pic.

What you can see in the Rashford pic is that the line doesn't seem to be straight exactly where the ball supposedly crosses it, indicating that the line is disturbed by something. Which would be enough to say that it can't be clear and obvious that the on-field call was wrong. The only "proper" angle is one from right above the ball. Any judgement of how much grass can be seen underneath the ball from the side is going to lead you to the wrong conclusion.
 
Red in STL said:
Maguire was offside when the ball was played, as it was a free kick he couldn't have been fouled before he was offside because the ball is not in play
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It doesnt matter if he was in an offside position as it isnt an offence to be in an offside position so if you are in an offside position and get fouled before committing an offside offence the foul is still punishable.
 
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