VAR, Refs and Linesmen | General Discussion

amolbhatia50k said:
Ir really is the season from hell. Why didn't we aggressive put pressure for this? Liverpool seem to do it for everything. That's not out of play.
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Stop deluding yourself, even if every VAR decision went our way there is still one unescapable fact, and that is we are a crap team with a ton of underperforming players
 
How did VAR not give red to Havertz, don't think there was more clear and obvious red card this season than that.

Also Bruno G, clear red for that elbow from behind.
 
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Little did we know that we had a much better refereeing system for the last 100 years.

In modern day with VAR technology runned by incompetent idiots, we have surprises every damn week.
 
Remember when Kasabian had the Prem theme song? I reckon Bad Decisions by The Strokes should be the theme song this season.
 
roonster09 said:
How did VAR didn't give red to Havertz, don't think there was more clear and obvious red card this season than that.

Also Bruno G, clear red for that elbow from behind.
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Yeah they both seemed clear reds in this day and age. I actually thought the goal was fine though.
 
VAR has been utilised terribly this season, but but but just love when it’s poorly impacted a rival. I personally prefer to beat a rival controversially than totally. The salt is far tastier.
 
Jippy said:
Yeah they both seemed clear reds in this day and age. I actually thought the goal was fine though.
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Yeah, they are just making up rules on the go. This season has been a terrible for VAR.
 
First time im hearing what they call "subjective offside". How the fk can an offside be subjective ffs? They are making up these rules as they come along. Its a disgrace.
 
I hate conspiratorial bollocks, and I don’t think for a second we’ve been deliberately fecked over… but also I think its pretty mental that we’ve had at least 4 big decisions go against us early season that either would, or has been given to other teams in identical situations.. or created a massive public outcry when they weren’t … and one decision apparently given ‘to’ us (the Obama barge vs Wolves) which was debated as almost a national point of interest for two whole weeks, that I’ve since seen happen several times without nary a mention!

None of which absolves how shit we’ve been in general, but feck me I can’t remember a season where we’ve been so blatantly fecked over so much in such a short time. If feels like we’re still getting fecked off Peps bitching over Bruno’s goal last season!
 
Mockney said:
I hate conspiratorial bollocks, and I don’t think for a second we’ve been deliberately fecked over… but also I think its pretty mental that we’ve had at least 4 big decisions go against us early season that either would, or has been given to other teams in identical situations.. or created a massive public outcry when they weren’t … and one decision apparently given ‘to’ us (the Obama barge vs Wolves) which was debated as almost a national point of interest for two whole weeks, that I’ve since seen happen several times without nary a mention!

None of which absolves how shit we’ve been in general, but feck me I can’t remember a season where we’ve been so blatantly fecked over so much in such a short time. If feels like we’re still getting fecked off Peps bitching over Bruno’s goal last season!
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I don’t think it’s “gone against us”. I think instead look at who they’re for.

Our disallowed goal v Fulham - identical goal given to City.

Our disallowed goal v Brighton - identical goal given to Newcastle.

Our disallowed pen v Arsenal - identical pen given to City against us.

Our no penalty v Tottenham - less of a handball given for City later.

It should be a national outcry that our referees are allowed to referee in other leagues owned by these nation states. Of COURSE that will influence decisions. How will a referee feel giving something against Newcastle knowing they’ve got a 20k pay packet from Saudi coming soon?
 
Mockney said:
I hate conspiratorial bollocks, and I don’t think for a second we’ve been deliberately fecked over… but also I think its pretty mental that we’ve had at least 4 big decisions go against us early season that either would, or has been given to other teams in identical situations.. or created a massive public outcry when they weren’t … and one decision apparently given ‘to’ us (the Obama barge vs Wolves) which was debated as almost a national point of interest for two whole weeks, that I’ve since seen happen several times without nary a mention!

None of which absolves how shit we’ve been in general, but feck me I can’t remember a season where we’ve been so blatantly fecked over so much in such a short time. If feels like we’re still getting fecked off Peps bitching over Bruno’s goal last season!
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You see how much noise is made in the media when ManUtd gets any decision, it's easy to see why refs take easy way.

Media, pundits controls refs decision making, ofcourse having state backing also helps when refs moonlight.
 
Havertz was lucky to escape further punishment. Could easily of been a red.

Bruno G should have of been sent off no doubt, that is violent conduct without a shadow of a doubt. That's a mistake IMO.

For the goal I actually think they got everything right there is no conclusive evidence for the ball going out, it's not a foul and the offside is impossible to call.

On the ball not going out though it just shows clearly that they made a mistake with our one against Brighton. Almost identical situation with no conclusive evidence for the ball going out. Yet ours was chalked off. These mistake are totting up and some have been very costly.

By far the worst decision of the day was to award Sheff U a penalty against Wolves. Blatant dive yet again awarded despite a VAR review. That one is a disgrace in all honesty.
 
Agree with Arteta's rant about VAR. Those in charge need to be held accountable like managers and players are, instead of hiding. They refs and VAR assistants should never be the focal points of a football match. But every week we're seeing them feck it up.

Thing is its usually the matches between the top 6 that get the attention, but the inept ref and VAR performances are happening in plenty of other games too

The conspiracy stuff about them being out to get United is hilarious btw. They're fecking decisions up across the board, it's absolutely nothing to do with targeting United. Every team is suffering
 
Corruption it’s there.

Football as a whole is corrupt to the core in the governing bodies, why the surprise/denial.
 
Jippy said:
Yeah they both seemed clear reds in this day and age. I actually thought the goal was fine though.
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I thought it was a foul by Joelinton. He's clearly got 2 arms on the defender, pushing him down and stopping him from jumping/raising his head to clear the ball away.
 
Arteta was right. Goal shouldn't have stood for many reasons, including blatantly pushing.. Why VAR didn't check that after speding hours checking the line.
Bruno should've had redcard for elbow, same goes for Havert, studsip tackle, clear red.

What a rigged match but feck em after they tried so hard to defend Gabriel body pulling on Hojlund. Have a taste of it this time
 
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There's no conclusive angle to say the ball was out of play. So why the feck was our goal against Brighton ruled out? Honestly, I like the concept of VAR but the refs here are ruining it and are clearly not capable of using it. Time to call it quits and replace the PGMOL. Hopefully Howard Webb or some other cnut can create a breakaway organisation which will be held accountable for their decisions and mistakes.
 
PoTMS said:
There's no conclusive angle to say the ball was out of play. So why the feck was our goal against Brighton ruled out? Honestly, I like the concept of VAR but the refs here are ruining it and are clearly not capable of using it. Time to call it quits and replace the PGMOL. Hopefully Howard Webb or some other cnut can create a breakaway organisation which will be held accountable for their decisions and mistakes.
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Because we're idiots for putting a camera right along the touchline.
 
Shane88 said:
Because we're idiots for putting a camera right along the touchline.
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There was no camera angle for that. The angle that was used to rule it out was as bad as the one they couldn’t make a decision on yesterday. There was fan footage which was right down the line which showed it to not have gone out of play.
 
I mean fine....its Arsenal so its a bit funny for me but how is that Gordon goal not overturned?

How is that Sheffield United penalty given?

WTF is going on?
 
I don't think VAR has ruined the game. Its the incompetent referees who use it have caused all the problem. There is no coherent understanding of rules between them and keep changing those on a weekly basis.

I would like the managers speak out more often. The inconsistent refereeing will only continue to happen. This is a result of over-protection of referees who are just not good at their job and who have no accountability whatsoever. They know that they can do whatever feck they want without having to prove anything to anyone.
 
robinrooney said:
I thought it was a foul by Joelinton. He's clearly got 2 arms on the defender, pushing him down and stopping him from jumping/raising his head to clear the ball away.
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Two hands in the back of the defender is a foul in my eyes, amazed it was given, although it was at St James' Park, had it been away from home, it wouldn't have been given.
 
I do not understand how rugby referees and TMO can get it so right and yet football with VAR are miles off.

Its like football accepts it has rubbish referees and therefore they must protect them as much as possible.
 
africanspur said:
I mean fine....its Arsenal so its a bit funny for me but how is that Gordon goal not overturned?

How is that Sheffield United penalty given?

WTF is going on?
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Utd get some shite decisions.

But Wolves have been on the end of the shit stick more often than most other clubs this season.
 
robinrooney said:
I thought it was a foul by Joelinton. He's clearly got 2 arms on the defender, pushing him down and stopping him from jumping/raising his head to clear the ball away.
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I thought there was minimal contact and Gabriel was going down already tbh. I dislike Joelinton and hate Newcastle more than Arsenal as well.
 
We get decisions our way too, such as the Bruno/Rashford “offside” goal. But every so often, we will then be punished tenfold. It’s the cycle with refs and us. Nothing new.
 
ayushreddevil9 said:
I don't think VAR has ruined the game. Its the incompetent referees who use it have caused all the problem. There is no coherent understanding of rules between them and keep changing those on a weekly basis.

I would like the managers speak out more often. The inconsistent refereeing will only continue to happen. This is a result of over-protection of referees who are just not good at their job and who have no accountability whatsoever. They know that they can do whatever feck they want without having to prove anything to anyone.
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You can't separate the two though. If it's humans using the technology, there's always scope for mistakes around implementation, as we've seen. Plus some decisions are so close and subjective, 50% of people will think it's wrong whatever.
I don't think managers should be berating referees all the time- it feeds onto the pitch and also breeds the lack of respect that sees sunday league referees get beaten up.
 
Jippy said:
You can't separate the two though. If it's humans using the technology, there's always scope for mistakes around implementation, as we've seen. Plus some decisions are so close and subjective, 50% of people will think it's wrong whatever.
I don't think managers should be berating referees all the time- it feeds onto the pitch and also breeds the lack of respect that sees sunday league referees get beaten up.
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How come it's not a problem in other sports?
 
wr8_utd said:
Just how expensive would it be for the Premier League to have goal line technology enabled for not just the goal but also till both the corner flags? Surely the richest and greatest leaguer ever could afford that? Also, the continued lack of offside technology here the way it was used in the World Cup and in Serie A, is a bit baffling.
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It's baffling really. I believe clubs voted against the semi automated offside decision for some bizarre reason. These are two very simple things, where VAR can minimise controversy.
 
ayushreddevil9 said:
How come it's not a problem in other sports?
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Because sports in which it work have always had long breaks in them, so the officials aren’t under the same pressure to make a very quick decision. Plus the issues it’s mainly used for in other sports are more black and white. It’s obviously a lot easier to decide whether a rugby player touched the ball down, or had a foot in touch than it is to decide if a footballer was pulled hard enough to prevent him getting to a cross into the box, or if he fell over because he was avoiding getting clattered vs deliberately diving to fool the referee.
 
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Garnacho's Shoelaces said:
United have been dreadful but we could easily have 6-9 more points but for the incorrect VAR interventions against Spurs, Arsenal and Brighton.
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Exactly. Because United have been so poor the officiating against us is being ignored. Getting fed up with the fact when a decision goes against us it’s blanked by all media outlets. How come the ‘subjective’ offside wasn’t analysed on MOTD or Sky?

The PGMOL is a corrupt organisation. At this point they cannot be this inept. It’s a bunch of power hungry men in a closed network. It’s time for them to be micced up so everyone can understand their decision making.

They need to get the offside system used in the World Cup next season. The less responsibility given to them the better.
 
Jippy said:
You can't separate the two though. If it's humans using the technology, there's always scope for mistakes around implementation, as we've seen. Plus some decisions are so close and subjective, 50% of people will think it's wrong whatever.
I don't think managers should be berating referees all the time- it feeds onto the pitch and also breeds the lack of respect that sees sunday league referees get beaten up.
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This is spot on. Part of the whole narrative which makes VAR such a waste of space is this stupid idea that it somehow removes human fallibility, or the fact that there can be very different opinions on the same slo mo replay. Offside calls are the only VAR decisions that avoid subjectivity. But the VAR offside system just creates all this bollox where goals are disallowed because a player’s armpit is few centimetres too advanced, or whining about frame rate and the thickness of lines. Plus fans have to wait to properly celebrate a goal if there’s even the tiniest hint of offside. Every. Fecking. Time.

The one and only officiating technology that has improved football as a sport is goal line technology.
 
ayushreddevil9 said:
I don't think VAR has ruined the game. Its the incompetent referees who use it have caused all the problem. There is no coherent understanding of rules between them and keep changing those on a weekly basis.

I would like the managers speak out more often. The inconsistent refereeing will only continue to happen. This is a result of over-protection of referees who are just not good at their job and who have no accountability whatsoever. They know that they can do whatever feck they want without having to prove anything to anyone.
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There's a level of incompetence, but so many decisions are 50/50, there's a level of scrutiny on every decision now, that no matter what someone will be pissed. An even then most people still can't agree whether of not it was the right call.

Let's say they rule that Newcastle goal out, for the ball being out or the foul by Joelinton or offside. The shoe would be on the other foot with Howe having a moan.

That being said, there's a lot of fairly obvious decisions that they get outrageously wrong, you look at Oliver pulling Utd game back for that penalty last week. In hindsight it's 50/50 call, but if they can pull it back for that. Why don't we see it done for other clear fouls that were missed.

Guimares gets away with a filthy elbow yesterday - apparently not a clear and obvious error. Palhinha did something similar last week, should have been off, then goes and scores an equaliser.

Newcastle got a dodgy penalty against Wolves last week for little or no conatct, Wolves had a player dragged down - no penalty. Sheffield Utd got a penalty yesterday for a clear dive. But before that they were pissed off about the build up to the Wolves goal.
 
Said it before and will say it again. Is it really a pure coincidence that the two oil clubs in this league usually gets these refeereing decisions in their favour? God, i hate football now.
 
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