Feck me. Luton got fecked very, very hard there... and I say that in the category of "Greek f*cking underground gay porn hard" (that's a quote from a comedy hockey movie named Goon), which is also often the case with us these days.
VAR, Refs and Linesmen | General Discussion
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Feck me. Luton got fecked very, very hard there... and I say that in the category of "Greek f*cking underground gay porn hard" (that's a quote from a comedy hockey movie named Goon), which is also often the case with us these days.
The Hojlund incident looks more and more like a stonewall pen.
The VAR officials needs to be an independent group from the FA refs.
The VAR officials needs to be an independent group from the FA refs.
Nope, because the linesman didn’t raise his flag.
Wow, I hadn’t seen that replay. We got robbed.
Yeah United fans would be demanding a penalty
It certainly would have been possible to use a camera angle where drawing the two lines would have found Garnacho on-side, especially if Gabriel’s line was correctly taken from his head. The question is why that didn’t happen? Same reason so many other decisions didn’t go for us; the VAR ref didn’t want Arsenal to lose.. perhaps because the xG tells us they didn’t deserve to lose. I think the change that’s needed is to only allow VAR ref’s sight of incidents; nothing else. They then don’t know the scores or flow of the game etc and hopefully less subconsciously bias. Perhaps one VAR ref, picking out incidents for review then 2 rotating on decisions.
It seems to me that people are starting to wake up and see what is happening. Good to see. Although we need our club to say something. Put out some sort of official complain.
It is no secret how we are being treated. ABU is there for everyone to see. Why that is? Something they can answer. 4 games in and we have had 5-6 stonewall penalties denied. Opposition have been given everything. Our ”luck” is non existent. Instead of 12 points we got hard fought 6. Something doesn’t add up.
For years and years I was under impression that mics and cam on referees / VAR would solve some problem. Now I’m certain that we need to get referees and officials outside England. I rather see a SouthKorean or Bolivian referees take charge of our games. Or whatever or whoever. A horse would have done job better.
It is no secret how we are being treated. ABU is there for everyone to see. Why that is? Something they can answer. 4 games in and we have had 5-6 stonewall penalties denied. Opposition have been given everything. Our ”luck” is non existent. Instead of 12 points we got hard fought 6. Something doesn’t add up.
For years and years I was under impression that mics and cam on referees / VAR would solve some problem. Now I’m certain that we need to get referees and officials outside England. I rather see a SouthKorean or Bolivian referees take charge of our games. Or whatever or whoever. A horse would have done job better.
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No longer seems like a coincidence
I second the doctor recommendation, there might be something seriously wrong with your body. You shouldn't even feel a stretch.
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Regardless of the VAR and Referee performances 6 points is probably flattering us at this stage. We deserved to lose to Wolves and could have conceded a penalty but VAR decided it wasn’t. Spurs we didn’t play well, Forest we went 2-0 down at home. I don’t think we deserved anything yesterday as well, had the Garnacho goal have stood it would have been a snatch and grab style of away defeat. It’s not good enough by the manager and players.
If it was Maguire, there'd be United fans begging for a penalty just so they could push their agenda!
Same here, didn’t think a lot of it in normal time. Watching it back though, it’s a pretty clear pen. Didn’t see a replay at the time or after, and wouldn’t surprise me if the same was true of the guys in the var room.
Honestly, how is this not obstruction on Evans:
And this not a penalty on Rasmus:
Both of them are stonewall decisions that went against United.
And this not a penalty on Rasmus:
Both of them are stonewall decisions that went against United.
I wonder if we will get an apology? (of course we wont)
This is a load of tosh.
Honestly, how is this not obstruction on Evans:
And this not a penalty on Rasmus:
Both of them are stonewall decisions that went against United.
I read the corner wasn't a corner but a GK. Not seen any footage though.
I don't think it's a foul on Evans, both of them were wrestling each other and Evans was more interested in that every time he challenged for a ball and the ref ignored it.
The penalty should've been given and I'm still not convinced that was offside.
The penalty should've been given and I'm still not convinced that was offside.
Eth should be demanding the offside check be made public, from the other angle with the line drawn from Gabriel's head
I was surprised when it was called a corner, I don't even remember anyone challenging properly for the Odegaard shot.
No one even talked about it after the match except Luton fans. Not on any match report like it never happened.
No united players complained though
The shot went through an Eriksen/Rasmus sandwich.
Seen it again, it's impossible to know if anyone touched it from the original angle. The trajectory and power of the shot indicate it's very unlikely a United player got anything on it.
Yeah, I forgot that but it was a half-hearted challenge. I don't think they touched it.
Penalties are subjective. Sometimes we disagree with ref, other times we agree. But the pedantic application of the offside rule that allows no margin of error for human decisions when humans are making the calls about which freeze frame to use and where to add the points for the lines, to me is of another order.
If the VAR cannot tell by looking at a freeze frame whether someone is offside the benefit of any doubt should go to the attacker.
Nobody saw goals like that yesterday, were it to have stood, to be a footballing injustice we needed VAR to save us from. VAR was not supposed to rule out goals became of pedantry.
Even if half of the forward player's boot is ahead of the last defender on a freeze frame, prior to VAR there isn't a football fan in the country who, even if given against their side wouldn't have begrudgingly assessed the situation as: "He timed that run well" - becaue before VAR that was what EVERYONE understood both the application and spirit of the offside law to be.
There was never a single football phone in in history where aggrieved fans were calling up saying "I've taken my mum's bingo pen to the screen, and it's clear that when the ball is played the striker's left knee is ahead of the last defender" - this tells you how little we needed "saving" by VAR from the situations.
If the VAR cannot tell by looking at a freeze frame whether someone is offside the benefit of any doubt should go to the attacker.
Nobody saw goals like that yesterday, were it to have stood, to be a footballing injustice we needed VAR to save us from. VAR was not supposed to rule out goals became of pedantry.
Even if half of the forward player's boot is ahead of the last defender on a freeze frame, prior to VAR there isn't a football fan in the country who, even if given against their side wouldn't have begrudgingly assessed the situation as: "He timed that run well" - becaue before VAR that was what EVERYONE understood both the application and spirit of the offside law to be.
There was never a single football phone in in history where aggrieved fans were calling up saying "I've taken my mum's bingo pen to the screen, and it's clear that when the ball is played the striker's left knee is ahead of the last defender" - this tells you how little we needed "saving" by VAR from the situations.
Here's a carbon copy of Gabriel's challenge being given as a foul by Lindelof outside of the box:
And this not a penalty on Rasmus:
Both of them are stonewall decisions that went against United.
These are hardly ever given as penalties, when there is another defender there to cover off and get the ball, before Højlund has even hit the ground. Not saying whether that's right or wrong, but I don't think it's a stonewall when looking at what is normally given. It would be an entirely different scenario if Højlund could have gotten off a shot if he hadn't been held back, but I don't think that was the case.
Just because we are not good enough to win league doesn't mean we can accept being treated by VAR and referees like we are. No club in the world would accept this without official complain.
You talk about VAR and Wolves but forgot that we in same game didn't get two penalties. Makes you forget about decisions which should have gone for us and concentrate on one situation which went against other team. We know how this works. This have been our story for lot of years. 1 decision for and 20 against. And guess what? People concentrate on that one decision and "forget" about the others.
No matter the outcome now,thought there were plenty of positive. We saw what a proper no9 does for your play,onwards and upward.
I don't know. I think it is getting beyond ridiculous at this point.
The offside situation is difficult. If VAR has judged that to be offside, then I'm sure it is - although it did look weird from that angle.
However, Højlund should have had a clear penalty. It wasn't even looked at, but it was clear as day. Evans should also have had a free kick before Rice scored. The Arsenal player literally dragged him away from blocking the shot. That would be the difference between 1-2 and 2-1.
We all know how the Tottenham game went. If the ref does his job, we get a penalty and the game changes. Possibly, that would be a 6 point difference - nothing written in stone, but a clear possibility.
The more arguable situations for me would be Porro's stamp on Bruno, which I think warranted a red card. The Saka stamp on Bruno was also worse than what Casemiro got sent off for last year - it's a clear follow through with the potential of a leg breaker. I can understand yellow, but it could also have been given as a red. Porro got nothing...
The offside situation is difficult. If VAR has judged that to be offside, then I'm sure it is - although it did look weird from that angle.
However, Højlund should have had a clear penalty. It wasn't even looked at, but it was clear as day. Evans should also have had a free kick before Rice scored. The Arsenal player literally dragged him away from blocking the shot. That would be the difference between 1-2 and 2-1.
We all know how the Tottenham game went. If the ref does his job, we get a penalty and the game changes. Possibly, that would be a 6 point difference - nothing written in stone, but a clear possibility.
The more arguable situations for me would be Porro's stamp on Bruno, which I think warranted a red card. The Saka stamp on Bruno was also worse than what Casemiro got sent off for last year - it's a clear follow through with the potential of a leg breaker. I can understand yellow, but it could also have been given as a red. Porro got nothing...
That's ridiculous. So a clear, stonewall free kick is not a penalty because there is another defender in the vicinity? Should a handball not been given if the ball had hit someone's chest if the arm was not there? A foul is a foul - one might rather argue that it's even more stupid of the defender when there's cover.
This is absolute toss this is given in most VAR cases the world over, is just not given by Dean's friends. You are not allowed to defend like this.
When the VAR becomes full AI, we will have much better decisions. VAR should be a simple thing, but the human factor ruins the point of having VAR.
Ah c’mon now. You’re a scientist. You don’t just use “one size fits all” confidence intervals, do you? Each incident will have a different margin of error. Are the defender and attacker running in opposite directions? Or both running the same way? Is the through ball stationary when it’s hit? Or rolling? If so, is it rolling towards or away from his foot? All minor details but can combine to make significant differences. In some scenarios using 5cm (or whatever) thick lines will reveal the ‘true’ outcome. In others they may need to be 10 or 20cm thick for separation to be a legitimate offside.
My point is that the technology will still make incorrect calls. Combine this with the very obvious human failings around everything to do with VAR and if couldn’t be more obvious (to me anyway) it’s made the game of football considerably worse.
The very idea that we have to think about positions of heads vs shoulder and 5cm thick red and blue lines when we should have been celebrating a classic goal that a good, experienced assistant official figured was legitimate in real time is all the evidence we should need to demonstrate that VAR is ruining the game.
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Eh? They are very often given as penalties. One of the most basic rules of defending is to keep your hands to yourself. As soon as you put hands on an opposition player you risk giving a foul away. To fully wrap an arm around him like that, with no attempt to play the ball with his feet, is a nailed on penalty.
The only time the second defender becomes relevant is when considering whether to send Gabriel off for denial of a clear goalscoring opportunity. It is irrelevant otherwise. Hojlund gets to the ball before the covering defender without Gabriel's tactical foul on him too.
Gabriel seemed to get away with the penalty decision and the Evans foul because he ended up on the floor himself. Since when have defenders been rewarded for having no balance?
I'm just imagining Maguire or Evans performing the exact same actions yesterday and how different the refereeing and media reactions would have been.
Even Garnacho was not Offside. They used completely wrong angles to draw the line. Gabriel head was the point to draw the lines but VAR decided to use a back camera thus using his shoulders.
Even from this wide camera angle, garnacho is onside, even the commentators said so, looking at it live.
Even from this wide camera angle, garnacho is onside, even the commentators said so, looking at it live.