VAR, Refs and Linesmen | General Discussion

[stw2022]

20 years ago my dad paused a TV show and at a particular moment where both Judy Finegan and Denise Van Outen were on screen together and he said that he reckoned Judy's tits were bigger.

20 years later this is fundamentally technology basis of how calls are made in the Premier League with fans falling over themselves to laud the technology as infallible.

 

[Jev]

Sure. But there's a big difference between "sometimes they make errors" and "in this case they made an error".

So far nobody has posted anything that actually suggests they made an error. Just the same thing we always get with these offsides, which is people pointing to how things look different from a different camera angle (as if they shouldn't look different given how perspective works) while posting random screengrabs, or saying nonsensical things like "your shoulder can't be ahead of your head".

Nothing about this offside appears any different to any other correct offside call we see. It just happened to go against us this time.

This is what I hate about a call like this:

Extra annoyed because it's us tonight but another example of VAR solving a problem that never existed in the first place. No-one would have ever complained about that being given pre-VAR because any sane person would have just laughed at the no-life nerd who got his ruler out to prove it was a centimeter offside.

It's not that the call is wrong according to the rules. It's correct. It's that before VAR, the rules were never enforced, or meant to be enforced, in such a literal, inflexible, boring way.

 

[Red_toad]

Rice’s goal wasn’t a corner, it was simply hoofed out of play. Certainly zero benefit of doubt in Garnacho’s goal, an incredibly close decision.

 

[Acquire Me]

Actually that’s wrong. Last season they made mistake with the lines and had to apologise after a game (google will bring it up), they are manually input with tech assistance.

Okay I thought they used the new system in Champions League. Maybe it’s new this season then?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

This is what I hate about a call like this:



It's not that the call is wrong according to the rules. It's correct. It's that before VAR, the rules were never enforced, or meant to be enforced, in such a literal, inflexible, boring way.

Preach.

 

[Member 58925]

It’s not that United haven’t benefited from this nonsense before, it’s such a ridiculous application of VAR. If you pause it and it’s obvious to the naked eye that there’s an offside then fine, but exactly what unfair advantage does the attacking player have here?!

 

[stw2022]

Dunno if manipulated image or not... found it on reddit.

Spoiler

https://www.reddit.com/media?url=ht...bp&s=0546b558284be22e9f269dc75c0894ff70dbea03

Miles offside. Thank feck VAR has saved us from these injustices

 

[Jeppers7]

Sure. But there's a big difference between "sometimes they make errors" and "in this case they made an error".

So far nobody has posted anything that actually suggests they made an error. Just the same thing we always get with these offsides, which is people pointing to how things look different from a different camera angle (as if they shouldn't look different given how perspective works) while posting random screengrabs, or saying nonsensical things like "your shoulder can't be ahead of your head".

Nothing about this offside appears any different to any other correct offside call we see. It just happened to go against us this time.

Hi Mike Dean…here’s an idea, see the defender there. His legs are in line with one and other. Do that, lean forward and try your hardest to get your shoulder in front of your head without pulling your head right back. Genius.

 

[90 + 5min]

After 4 games this year we can clearly see that there is no change in how rules are applied. We are treated differently and evidence is there for everyone.

I have no idea why our club keep accepting this. Year after year. Why don’t we go out with official complaint? Why don’t we talk about this every press conference?

 

[2 man midfield]

After 4 games this year we can clearly see that there is no change in how rules are applied. We are treated differently and evidence is there for everyone.

I have no idea why our club keep accepting this. Year after year. Why don’t we go out with official complaint? Why don’t we talk about this every press conference?

Ten hag is too nice to the officials. Klopp has given himself hernias over less than this game alone.

 

[Heinzesight]

20 years ago my dad paused a TV show and at a particular moment where both Judy Finegan and Denise Van Outen were on screen together and he said that he reckoned Judy's tits were bigger.

20 years later this is fundamentally technology basis of how calls are made in the Premier League with fans falling over themselves to laud the technology as infallible.

Bet he loved the Brit Awards that time!

 

[Di Maria's angel]

It’s his fecking head

Looks onside to me... but hey who cares? We need Arsenal to pick up the points so they can dance around like they've won the league.

 

[eire-red]

Is it even possible to run forward while leaning backwards?

Maybe the rule should be that lines are drawn from the most advanced foot, rather than any part of the body?

Like is there any real advantage gained from "leaning" in such a way? The advantage is gained if you're "standing" in an offside position surely?

Like Garnacho's shoulder was offside when going through? So what. He's running forward, how else is he supposed to run? Not only in this instance, but I think a rule change like that would remove all those ridiculous, BS decisions with armpits being offside.

 

[RPT_Reddevil]

Any replay of the challenge on Hojlund in the box?

 

[sullydnl]

Hi Mike Dean…here’s an idea, see the defender there. His legs are in line with one and other. Do that, lean forward and try your hardest to get your shoulder in front of your head without pulling your head right back. Genius.

You try doing the same thing. In fact do it in front of a wall so you can test it. This time, actually turn your torso in the same manner the defender has so that one shoulder is ahead of the other. If at that point you can't get your shoulder to touch the wall before your head, you need to either see a doctor or get broader shoulders.

 

[gaffs]

But what about the precise millisecond that the pass is made. We are all focussing on just one half of the offside.

That has to be done by eye. They can move each frame and pick the one where the ball appears to start moving forward.

 

[Superunknown]

The next step is to go heavy meta with this and have VAR/video refs checking the video refs as they make their decisions in their labs or wherever it is they do it.

 

[The Corinthian]

How the feck is that offside?

And since when is holding back and blocking a player allowed? Rice's goal shouldn't have stood.

 

[Robbie Boy]

I'm not one to go mental about decisions but today was fecking hilarious

 

[Anustart89]

That’s the bottom line. There’s a margin of error. There has to be. And if we can’t be sure it’s the correct decision, what’s the fecking point of any of it?!?

There is a margin of error though. If the red line and blue line had been overlapping it would've been given onside.

 

[Pexbo]

There is a margin of error though. If the red line and blue line had been overlapping it would've been given onside.

That’s not a margin for error. Being level is onside, that’s the fecking rules.

 

[Anustart89]

That’s not a margin for error. Being level is onside, that’s the fecking rules.

Yes it is, because the lines have a thickness of a few centimetres (five I think). So no need for the snarkiness mate.

 

[BaguetteBoy]

That looks like a push and penalty

no wonder they didn’t show this

 

[Anustart89]

That looks like a push and penalty

no wonder they didn’t show this

Can't believe we didn't even see a single replay. Really looked like he was barged off the ball, allowing his teammate to get the ball (so not a case of "winning the ball", really.

It's like when Soucek was concussed by the Brighton keeper's punch, not a single replay despite the incident being followed by a 3+ minute delay.

The people directing the footage have a large say in the post-game talking points which makes the game feel a lot like WWE these days.

 

[VivaRonaldo85]

We’ve been shafted today. The media will sweep this under the carpet though of course

 

[BaguetteBoy]

Can't believe we didn't even see a single replay. Really looked like he was barged off the ball, allowing his teammate to get the ball (so not a case of "winning the ball", really.

It's like when Soucek was concussed by the Brighton keeper's punch, not a single replay despite the incident being followed by a 3+ minute delay.

The people directing the footage have a large say in the post-game talking points which makes the game feel a lot like WWE these days.

I know a picture always looks worse but his position and actions says a lot in that one. He was playing the man not the ball

 

[TheGodsInRed]

https://azzz.org/watch/close-up-penalty-call-87-039-hojlund_o6ZlgFK2LulC388.html
Looks a clear pen to me the way he had his arm around him and pulled him back so the other defender could get there first.

 

[Anustart89]

https://azzz.org/watch/close-up-penalty-call-87-039-hojlund_o6ZlgFK2LulC388.html
Looks a clear pen to me the way he had his arm around him and pulled him back so the other defender could get there first.

"Hojlund's got a hold of his left arm there", says former pro ref Mike Dean. Gabriel's fecking put the left arm out in front of him to stop him getting ahead of him, is Hojlund just supposed to stop and say "ah there's an arm there I have to stop now".

If someone trips someone else, is Mike Dean going to say "well he's kicked the defenders foot there" as a reason to not deem it a foul?

These pundits and their reasons for backing the on-field decisions are getting more daft by the day.

 

[HackeyC]

His head was the furthest point forward. How have they chosen an angle and put the line on his shoulder?

 

[Sandikan]

I'm not one to go mental about decisions but today was fecking hilarious

It was the same in the game Ronaldo was with us for against them.
I was at the game and hadn't realised, but got back later and saw we'd been massively harshly dealt with.

 

[Sandikan]

"Hojlund's got a hold of his left arm there", says former pro ref Mike Dean. Gabriel's fecking put the left arm out in front of him to stop him getting ahead of him, is Hojlund just supposed to stop and say "ah there's an arm there I have to stop now".

If someone trips someone else, is Mike Dean going to say "well he's kicked the defenders foot there" as a reason to not deem it a foul?

These pundits and their reasons for backing the on-field decisions are getting more daft by the day.

Mike Dean always sounds so wrong with that horrible northern accent.

 

[KjaAnd]

https://azzz.org/watch/close-up-penalty-call-87-039-hojlund_o6ZlgFK2LulC388.html
Looks a clear pen to me the way he had his arm around him and pulled him back so the other defender could get there first.

That’s a pen no doubt. Gabriel literally holds his arm around Højlund’s waist and drags him down.

 

[Longshanks]

There is no way on this planet we have the technology to accurately make a decision on the offside today. It's well within the margin of error of the current tech.

Fair play for overuling the penalty though nice to see VAR actually work every once in a while.

 

[GBBQ]

This is what I hate about a call like this:



It's not that the call is wrong according to the rules. It's correct. It's that before VAR, the rules were never enforced, or meant to be enforced, in such a literal, inflexible, boring way.

That’s exactly it. Being centimetres apart in the centre circle is not an advantage. It’s the defence playing a risky high line and being punished for it.

 

[fergies coat]

Mike Dean always sounds so wrong with that horrible northern accent.

Bit of a weird thing to say, considering some of us are actually from Manchester, which is north west England.

 

[mathrait]

This place is starting to turn into RAWK.

 

[stw2022]

If you took that still image and anonymised it so you couldn't identify the teams involved, and showed it to people a few years ago prior to VAR and showed it as an example of the types of goals that this new "technology" would rule out, not one fecking person would have gone for it. Even those running around now lauding it as a great call because they've invested so much championing it for a few seasons now.

Not one.


Yet here we are.

 

[maniak]

they can dance around like they've won the league.

Love these posts

 

[90 + 5min]

Mike Dean always sounds so wrong with that horrible northern accent.

Of course he is defending his mates. Nothing strange. We know how it works. We know how we are treated.

There is need to start looking for referees and VAR officials outside England.

 

[Longshanks]

There is already a tolerance level ( I think it's 5cm) to account for the margins.

5cm isn't enough when even Harry Maguire could potentially move 16cm in-between frames. And that's just taken from top speeds and not necceserialy how fast the arms and legs are actually moving. And of course it's two players possibly moving in opposite directions. So two Harry Maguire's could move 32cm apart in-between frames. Essentially the offside line is potentially moving 32cm in-between frames. And that's one of the slowest players in the league.

Take two very quick players and it's potentially more like 40-50cm in-between frames.

So 5cm is something of a joke is you ask me.