his studs were not up, it is a foul and a yellow card but not a red.
VAR, Refs and Linesmen | General Discussion
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
Whining about corruption is an inevitable consequence of introducing technology as a response to whining about human error. Whining begets whining. It’s all very tedious. Now with added interruptions to play.
I don't think Utd (Or Chelsea) hard done by this season overall.
Jota should see Red today. Interested to see how Dale Johnson is going to try to spin it...
The biggest robbery game was Spurs Brighton, seems Brighton been done generally. Also with a red missed v Liverpool for Fabinho...
Liverpool have generally had favourable decisions for years... Spurs also going way back to the Lo Celso stamp.
I do think Webb will improve things in time.
Jota should see Red today. Interested to see how Dale Johnson is going to try to spin it...
The biggest robbery game was Spurs Brighton, seems Brighton been done generally. Also with a red missed v Liverpool for Fabinho...
Liverpool have generally had favourable decisions for years... Spurs also going way back to the Lo Celso stamp.
I do think Webb will improve things in time.
This makes zero sense. The inconsistencies have always been people's main gripe for wanting VAR.
The fact it's still there demonstrates it's the people making the decisions that are at fault and they cannot use the excuse of 'fast-paced game' to escape their incompetence any longer.
Whining about corruption is a direct consequence of the referee team continuing to get basic decisions wrong, even with the benefit of as many replays as they need to get it right.
I personally don’t think that the referees are corrupt but the way that they have implemented VAR is too focussed on protecting the referee, rather than making sure that they get the decision right. Improving the system is the way forwards, not removing it completely.
So we conclude; shock horror, that you can’t get unanimous opinions on contentious incidents even after watching slo mo replays? How could we ever have predicted that might happen?
Unless there is a power that endangers refs well being/ career about making correct decision against Liverpool, there is no need for protection to make the obvious right decision with VAR. So in the end, it still looks like corruption however you look at it.
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I know I'm fecking boring moaning about the Casemiro incident again, but how is studs to shin with a bent leg after bouncing off the ball more of a 'clear and obvious error' than mistiming a kick and putting your studs in the face being shown a yellow?
I seriously believe that over this season, we'd be able to compile a dossier of about 50 incidents where VAR hasn't stepped in for the same or worse things that VAR has deemed worthy of intervening to send Casemiro off for. Not to mention the several incidents where we've been denied obvious pens where other teams have received apologies and none for us.
Another gripe over the past few weeks, while we're in the refereeing thread. When did refs decide that the head isn't an important body part, and that you kan kick it with impunity as long as you're attempting a spectacular goal? We've seen Azpilicueta knocked out by an overhead kick a while ago, Casemiro struck by a foot attempting an overhead kick and today Shaw (and obviously the Jota one). None of the players have been deemed to be reckless, careless or disregarding the safety of their opponent. What's the point in the "endangering a player's safety" law if referees don't think that a kick with full force to the head doesn't apply there? Just because the refs' heads seem to be empty doesn't make it unimportant for other people.
I seriously believe that over this season, we'd be able to compile a dossier of about 50 incidents where VAR hasn't stepped in for the same or worse things that VAR has deemed worthy of intervening to send Casemiro off for. Not to mention the several incidents where we've been denied obvious pens where other teams have received apologies and none for us.
Another gripe over the past few weeks, while we're in the refereeing thread. When did refs decide that the head isn't an important body part, and that you kan kick it with impunity as long as you're attempting a spectacular goal? We've seen Azpilicueta knocked out by an overhead kick a while ago, Casemiro struck by a foot attempting an overhead kick and today Shaw (and obviously the Jota one). None of the players have been deemed to be reckless, careless or disregarding the safety of their opponent. What's the point in the "endangering a player's safety" law if referees don't think that a kick with full force to the head doesn't apply there? Just because the refs' heads seem to be empty doesn't make it unimportant for other people.
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Why the hell are you pointing the finger at the tech instead of the morons behind it. If a layman can tell there's inconsistency, how do paid professionals fail at the same task?
Do you give your lawyer, doctor or banker the same leeway? It's just such backwards thinking I struggle to understand the mentality.
When Souness, Redknapp and Robbie Keane are all saying it’s a definite red against a Liverpool player, then something has gone badly wrong if referees with the benefit of replays are still not calling it.
Bizarre. Apparently Judo takedowns are now legitimate against Man Utd players in the box!
I don't know when we'll start getting penalties again. Feels like an opponent will need to pull out a gun to get penalised.Eh not sure I agree with that. This season is one of the worst I can remember.
So many games where the ref has ruined it not alwahs due to the big decisions but constantly giving little ones away. Brighton as a recent example.
Any game with Antony Taylor, Casemiro double red.. yes both could be argued to be reds but in comparison to other similar decisions there'd be about 100 more red cards this season if it was done consistently.
Bias, probably. I had to a training course in work last year about unconscious bias or something like that. They probably aren't even aware when they are doing it, which might actually make it worse.
I know people on here go back to the two Casemiro red cards, but they are the best example of how they just zoned in on one player twice for maximum effect. Especially when the same referee ignored a worse tackle the day before but spent ages looking for the best slow mo angle to make sure he got a red the next day.
I think that one was borderline, but he clearly got the ball as well so that was a mitigating factor possibly.
Definitely less cut and dry than the Jota one. I honestly can't recall many reds more clear cut than that. I think Jota is expecting it too with his reaction after.
Because the refs don’t see them as a red. That’s why we were annoyed by Casemiros red v Southampton. Every similar tackle before that and since hasn’t been seen as a red. It should be but the refs and VAR have ignored those sort of challenges for so long now that it’s clearly not a red anymore.
They just haven’t changed the rules. It’s ridiculous
It was clearly accidental, but studs up in someone’s face has to be.a red when your studs are 6 ft off the ground.
if it’s Phil Jones heading a ball That is 6 inches off the ground it’s a different story.
VAR did check it. They should check their eyes first thing tomorrow
Employers wasted their time/money on that one then.
Watching MOTD, how was Jota not given a red?
Just saw the Spuds red card call. Literally almost the same as Casemiro but no review for a red. fecking clowns.
I know unbelievable and Shearer also saying about Klopps antics not the first time he's done it and should have been sent off too. Didn't look at the Richarlison penalty call though.
I think VAR as an experiment has failed. It seems to get worse and less useful every season since it's been implemented.
It's failed because it's been sabotaged by the Premier League referees. VAR works so much better in UEFA and World Cup matches, and in both Rugby codes. VAR principle is fine, it's the incompetents operating it in English football, which is the problem.
Not accidental. Jota was late so he desperately stick his leg high and not close enough to get the ball with. his challenge. Accidental IMO would be Jota won the ball, but Skip momentum landed his face on Jota stud. Accidental is only applicable for Casemiro red against Southampton.
Genuinely think I could show you 4 or 5 clear penalties that we haven't had this year.
Oh aye, just a box ticking exercise really. Like a lot of other crap I have to sit through.
It was just a thought that within the game referees, (like fans) might just have an irrational hate or dislike towards a club/manager/player and it clouds their decision making at time.
Why else would a referee look at 2 similar incidents 2 days running and help the referee decide by way of carefully selected slow motion replays the one where the player won the ball and made minimal contact with the player was a red?
Lack of consistency with officials is something else. Casemiro challenge deemed a red v Southampton and Jota not today...
They're doing everything they can to help Liverpool win. It's blatant and shameless at this point. There is a very clear and intentional effort on their behalf to assist that one club, and it has been going on for years now.
Liverpool have had as many wrong decisions go their way in the last 5 years than we had under Fergie, its genuinely astonishing.
Take off your tinfoil hat. In the first season VAR came in Liverpool were repeatedly fecked over by armpit hair/toenail offsides. I would have thought it was impossible to forget because it was so hilarious and immensely enjoyable.
As hilarious as that was, there is a difference, because on the offsides they have to do the lines and zoom in etc (unless you’re Lee Mason, obviously). But for subjective incidents, where you can choose to intervene or not intervene, there have been several decisions where the VAR has refused to intervene despite clear evidence that the player has committed a red card worthy foul, and that will never show up in the VAR interventions for/against statistics that people like to use to “ascertain” whether a team has benefitted from VAR or not.
The Fabinho and Jota ones are the most obvious where everyone in the world, including the offending players, have expected a red card to be shown and the VAR has been the only person in the world that hasn’t seen it as a red. But all of a sudden when those two tackles come in, the high VAR bar shows its ugly face only to be lowered again when it’s someone else.
I simply don’t understand why refs are so kind to Liverpool in the first place. They’re not that likeable as a squad, they get in the refs face just as much as anyone, Klopp’s become a massive tit with his behaviour culminating in him goading the fourth official when they score a goal (I mean, ignoring the comments suggesting Tierney’a dodgy, that in itself is worth a ban) and commenting on refereeing decisions for and against other teams. Why do refs still have such a lenient approach towards them, and what has someone like Casemiro even done to deserve his reputation as someone who should be sent off for every incident where a red card might be on the scale of punishments?
Actually this season Liverpool are leading the VAR table. They've had 12 decisions overturned and have 6 more points, which is more than any other team.
Where were they last season? Also top.
Then you can discuss the decisions that should have been given but weren't and the picture looks ever worse. 2 points yesterday for a start.
There was also the VVD tackle in the derby.
Klopp gets away with it because the media love him and its seen as passion rather than aggression, don't think the refs want to be controversial by sending off the media darling
Bizarre. Apparently Judo takedowns are now legitimate against Man Utd players in the box!
Well if they don’t ban Klopp for his comments it’s surely a green light for ETH to lay into PGMOL publicly and force change.
I realise that even if Klopp doesn’t get banned ETH probably still would be, but what else can we do at this point?
- Couple of things I think should be looked at/trialled is Mic up the refs/var for people to hear what's going on.
- Poaching the best refs worldwide, which should make it a little more competitive within the league but also reduce the bias in some cases.
- Ref should be able to request a visit to go over to the monitor if he isn't sure of a decision. (Not sure if that's a thing currently?)
- Challenge system, possibly 1 per team. Renews if the decision is overturned. Forces the ref to go to the monitor to check the decision.
- Maybe move away from refs being on the VAR panel and it being var technicans instead, with decisions other than offside being made by the onfield ref via monitor?
- Ability for teams to have access to the workings of the VAR team after matches.
- Refs encouraged to be harsher on abuse by players. The mics should help somewhat.
This just me rambling but VAR has been utter shite this season. I don't think it helps that a lot of decisions can literally be swept under the rug by those on VAR, quick check for a stone wall.. 5 minute check for an offside... that's blatant on the first viewing...
- Poaching the best refs worldwide, which should make it a little more competitive within the league but also reduce the bias in some cases.
- Ref should be able to request a visit to go over to the monitor if he isn't sure of a decision. (Not sure if that's a thing currently?)
- Challenge system, possibly 1 per team. Renews if the decision is overturned. Forces the ref to go to the monitor to check the decision.
- Maybe move away from refs being on the VAR panel and it being var technicans instead, with decisions other than offside being made by the onfield ref via monitor?
- Ability for teams to have access to the workings of the VAR team after matches.
- Refs encouraged to be harsher on abuse by players. The mics should help somewhat.
This just me rambling but VAR has been utter shite this season. I don't think it helps that a lot of decisions can literally be swept under the rug by those on VAR, quick check for a stone wall.. 5 minute check for an offside... that's blatant on the first viewing...
This might just get us a PK thru VAR. Might....Bizarre. Apparently Judo takedowns are now legitimate against Man Utd players in the box!
What's the difference between the penalty Everton just received and the one we didn't yesterday with Rashford?
Fecking sick of these refs.
Fecking sick of these refs.
With the referee tonight being the one on VAR duty yesterday.
Logged on to post after coming to the same conclusion