Van der Vaart himself, he cost £9m when Real bought him and they moved him on for a similar price even though he failed to win a place in their first team. Or Huntelaar who's been signed today for £11m by Schalke, Milan paid £13m for him last season and he was a major failure there - and well, Madrid only made a £3m loss on him as well and he wasn't convincing there either. Players with good reputation usually cost money.
Van Der Vaart On The Move
- Thread starter Drifter
- Start date
Van der Vaart himself, he cost £9m when Real bought him and they moved him on for a similar price even though he failed to win a place in their first team. Or Huntelaar who's been signed today for £11m by Schalke, Milan paid £13m for him last season and he was a major failure there - and well, Madrid only made a £3m loss on him as well and he wasn't convincing there either. Players with good reputation usually cost money.
I count 11 defenders and 13 midfielders (counting both dos Santos and Bale as midfielders, and if van der Vaart is ready) How in earth are they going to keep everyone happy... A lot of people will sit more at the bench then they like to. O'Hara and Jenas should consider moving clubs. I can see conflict between Pletikosa and Gomes as well...
The strong thing about the Tottenham squad is that it can take a couple injuries without getting much weaker. I also think they should be able to run quite a impressive 4-5-1 side.
Generally, saying 'hope this helps' at the end of a post only makes you look good if you've got the foggiest what you're on about and here, I'm afraid, you don't. Most of the crap that gets spoken about Van der Vaart on here can be shown up for what it is by one look at his Bundesliga career.
I really don't get his reputation on Redcafe - it's as if people have taken every weakness ever known in a Dutch player then added them together and decided it's Van der Vaart.
Chelsea only have Lampard who's quality but oldish and Essien, who's almost always injured, of reputable quality in their midfield. Ramires hasn't proven himself yet and Mikel's average. Tottenham have far more depth but less quality, though Modric would probably get into Chelsea's midfield and they could use someone like Palacios or Huddlestone as well. If van der Vaart performs the way he did at Madrid and previously at Hamburg, he'll be up there as well.
I don't really give a shit about VdV. Or transfers. Or whether you believe that I know anything about VdV, or football generally for that matter.
My presence here is purely down to me wanting to survey the frenzy and disappointment as it gradually dawns upon certain people that we're not signing anyone.
The fact that so many people are pissed off at Spurs signing VdV indicates that they are just desperate for any old, "big" name to get excited about. There's a reason only Spurs are interested in him.
I sincerely hope this post helps to elucidate my stance
Pletikosa came there to be a back-up goalkeeper so there won't be any conflict at all, O'Hara has probably known he was going to be third or fourth choice and not play much for ages. Jenas won't be happy indeed, think he'll be off to a team like Bolton or something.
Does it? How can we make any decision on that without seeing him play for United?
As you say in your last paragraph, our shortsightedness generally makes us miss what SAF sees already. For all we know, Bebe represents amazing value and will work hard with our staff, improve year on year and produce the goods for United for a long time. If that were to be the case, he'd represent fantastic value, but we can't tell yet.
Before everyone starts pointing out the similarity in numbers between Bebe's and VdV's transfer fees, people should remember that Harry has said that VdV was about to join Bayern yesterday for 18 million and that his price suddenly came down today - transfer deadline day... There are too many unknowns about boh transfers to make any meaningful comparison at this stage.
Van der Vaart is better off at a second-tier club like Hamburg or Spurs, rather than the pressure cooker of Madrid. It's a decent signing but one which is unlikely to offer anything new given the number of poncy attacking midfielders already at the club.
I think there's a small difference between not making at at a club like Madrid and Milan, a top club, and not making it with someone like Spurs. I'd imagine the drop in price would be a lot more significant.
I'm not saying your point is wrong, but I'm just wondering about players with big reputations who failed at a club similarly sized to Spurs?
I believe that you probably never watched a Bundesliga match with him appearing for Hamburg in it. You certainly give that impression anyway...
That's just absurd. Spurs are new to the CL, they're new to the top 4, they're new to the glamour of European nights, midweek CL football on primetime TV etc etc
If you 'gave a shit' about VdV you'd realise he's got the potential to be a great player for them and help them perform on what is a new stage for them. How many players in their squad have CL experience beside VdV?
I suspect an awful lot of people 'pissed off' at Spurs signing him would be wazzing themselves silly if United or whoever they support got him for 8m tonight...
But why do they have continued good reputations, when their performance levels are below par?
Both VdV and Huntelaar are so overrated, it's untrue.
The only reason anyone wants them at United now is because they're desperate for some action.
Like on a night out when you've been shafted by all the fit birds, so you start sniffing around the fat, ugly cow at 1:50am.
You're right - I don't watch Bundesliga. But I have watched the Dutch national team and La Liga, and he's always struck me as an average player. He does well at Hamburg and in Germany - he moves to Spurs, that just tells me that he's a player that is suited to just below the elite tier.
Spurs are just into the CL, but it likely won't be a regular thing. The club VdV is currently at is an elite team - they don't want him. None of Europe's other top sides were particularly interested it would seem.
He's ending up at Spurs - he's a 4/5th place sort of player.
Do we need him at United? Do we feck.
Both those players are still coveted because other clubs realise the situations at both Milan and Madrid over the last season or so and realise that what they've been through doesn't effect the potential they still have if they're at a properly run club which develops them properly within it.
I meant failing at United, not failing at Spurs, obviously there's a difference but I was talking from United's point of view.
Alright fine, I'll rephrase that - our signing of Bebe in my mind proves beyond any doubt that we're not skint, because if we were we wouldn't have spent £30m on the likes of Diouf, Hernandez, Bebe and Smalling, that's too much of a collective risk and a fair whack of money, too big for a team who don't have money to spare. They might all work out, but they're the type of risks you can't afford to take when you don't have a lot of money, I feel. You'd go for solid, reliable transfers at affordable prices to minimize the risk, not unlike what Hogson's doing at Liverpool. I'm not arsed for a money debate though, that's been done to death, and wasn't really one of the main points anyway.
Ah yes, because managers never lie when it comes to transfers, and Harry's a very trustworthy man...
You're right. They're suited to clubs just below the top-tier, where they can be their team's main men. Put them in a big pond, and they sink, because they're fecking average.
Those two bolded bits contradict each other. You've not seen him play for either Ajax or Hamburg yet feel confident enough to declare him a '4/5th place sort of player'. That's just ridiculously ignorant...
Why do you keep talking of him in terms of United? We were never interested... so what? It's almost as if you're disappointed.
I'm sure he could have moved to other top clubs - he nearly went to Bayern yesterday and they were certainly interested. Just as he could have moved to other clubs when he chose Hamburg...
No, I was taking the piss out of those who have proved themselves to be annoyed at this transfer by the tone of their posts in this thread.
There's nothing contradictory about my statement. The top players belong at clubs like Man Utd, Chelsea etc. Spurs and the like end up with players of not as much ability. If on the off chance they have a diamond, they end up transferring to one of the top sides.
Ajax and Hamburg are both fairly average sides.
I actually think Harry is pretty trustworthy, even if his 'media-personality' suggests otherwise... Remember him telling everyone he'd love to sign Joe Cole this summer but had heard he'd signed a deal somewhere else? No one was even at all sure if he'd even leave Chelsea at the time. Who else would just let their guard down and say that to the media?
Seriously, I think Redknapp doesn't really give a feck any longer and tends to crack on more than most other managers about what happens behind the scenes in football transfers... I can well imagine Bayern were in for VdV - makes perfect sense. His reputation is still huge over there and Van Gaal would probably love to work with him...
I think the only thing you can read into our summer transfers is that our transfer policy has changed. I'm not sure I agree with you about the extent to which Smalling and Hernandez represent risks - SAF seems desperate to get Smalling playing for United as soon as possible. I've never really seen him do that before with such an inexperienced player - he must know that Smalling is here to stay, I think... So funnily enough, I actually think that Bebe, Smalling and Hernandez prove that SAF's arguments weren't a smoke screen, just that we maybe misunderstood him. Rather than sign established names for large sums and massive wages, we're now looking at investing money - maybe fairly large amounts - in young players with long futures, resale value, low wages, scope for development etc etc I think the role of player wages in the 'no value in the market' comments has been understated on here.
On Van Der Vaart, I was exaggerating for effect. He might well do very well for them, he was very impressive for Madrid last season when he was given games in general, in a variety of roles, and I do think he's a very decent player. There's just no room for him at any of the top clubs, there's always someone better(or better suited). I was genuinely impressed by his selflessness in sacrificing his own natural game to suit the other players in the team and his workrate though, two things I thought he was lacking in in his first season there and I didn't think he had the mentality to stick it out and fight for his place with the galacticos, but he fought well.
I just don't see him thriving at Spurs the way I could at some of the other clubs in the tier below, I don't really see the need for him. That brings us back to my original point about being short-sighted, and you'd imagine VDV had some assurances of first team football at Spurs otherwise he'd have little reason to come, so as BL said it's probably best to wait. I've no doubt he'll add quality to their squad, but I can't quite see where he fits in right now. We'll see.
I was just using him to make a more general point about the 'value' brigade issue.
I just don't see him thriving at Spurs the way I could at some of the other clubs in the tier below, I don't really see the need for him. That brings us back to my original point about being short-sighted, and you'd imagine VDV had some assurances of first team football at Spurs otherwise he'd have little reason to come, so as BL said it's probably best to wait. I've no doubt he'll add quality to their squad, but I can't quite see where he fits in right now. We'll see.
I was just using him to make a more general point about the 'value' brigade issue.
In which world are Ajax and Hamburg 'fairly average sides'? Jesus...
Just take a fecking look at who played in the Ajax team when VdV not only played there but starred in the team...
You might also want to have a look at who played for Hamburg when VdV was there and they came 3rd in the Bundesliga...
I know you'll say that the important thing is that the Ajax side broke up and the good players moved 'up', but it surely should make you realise that Ajax are more than 'fairly average' and the side he grew up in was anything but...
There's more to football than just wazzing over Manchester United, Real Madrid and Barcelona you know... There are great players playing phenomenal football outside these clubs and the difference between them and those at Madrid or Milan is barely anything.
agreed; especially the last part.
So let me get this straight: every single player in the Man. Utd squad, because they've ended up at Man. Utd, has more ability than Van der Vaart?
It sounds like peterstorey's discredited argument of a while back, namely that every single player at a top 4 club is by definition a top-4 quality player ... simply because they are at a top 4-club.
Oh wait .... I'm forgetting, this means that every player at Spurs is now of top-4 quality ... I've just argued myself into a corner
Dutch league is average. I don't see how this is indisputable. German league had a mini renaissance last season, but has also been mired in mediocrity for the best part of a decade. I don't see how I'm saying anything awry here. Ajax and Hamburg may have great traditions, but they are average teams in the grand scheme of things now.
Just like he did at Hamburg yeah
He'll do just fine Spurs if anything is a perfect club for him to be a focal star.Don't blame the fans blame the market.
Plus Fergie can only blame himself for agree to go ahead with the signing.
Spurs did this a couple of years back: collected about 20 midfield players and realised none of them were much cop so went out and bought 20 more.
So let me get this straight: every single player in the Man. Utd squad, because they've ended up at Man. Utd, has more ability than Van der Vaart?
It sounds like peterstorey's discredited argument of a while back, namely that every single player at a top 4 club is by definition a top-4 quality player ... simply because they are at a top 4-club.
Oh wait .... I'm forgetting, this means that every player at Spurs is now of top-4 quality ... I've just argued myself into a corner
No, I've never been an ability or technique fiend. Look at my posts on such issues - I've always argued that mentality and attitude is more than half the battle - and that is borne out when you look at our squad. That is the difference, we have proper iron-willed players, traditionally.
VdV is a technically gifted player. That doesn't make a great player.
You've got to admit they're better off now than when they were faffing around with Davids and Jenas...
Palacios, Bale, Van der Vaart, Lennon and Modric are all a class above what they've had for a while, surely?
I've got to say, I think this is a fantastic signing for Spurs (with the caveat that VDV is up for it and not doing it out of desperation). He's a quality player.
Van der Vaart is only great when the team is built around him. He was truly great for the HSV, but their whole game was based on him. He embodies the phenomenon of a big fish in a small pond. There's nothing to see, let's move an. I for one am glad we haven't signed him. The fact he's a proper prick doesn't do him any favours either.
Nice missus, mind.
Has this been discussed yet?
Has this been discussed yet?
If so, it seems to be working: nearly two years ago Spurs were bottom of the league, now we're in the Champion's League.
With Bale moved to the LB position (where Harry sees him eventually being best placed), and after Sandro has had a few months to settle in, we may be seeing this midfield 5:
----- Huddlestone - Sandro
Lennon -- Van der Vaart -- Modric
Who knows, it might prove to be devastatingly good ... only time will tell.
Has Sandro even bothered rocking up yet?
Poor girl had breast cancer.
She's better now though, yes?
But he doesn't play for Ajax now, you phallus.
He played for them alongside Ibrahimovic and Sneijder... Hardly a 'fairly average' side...
What's this toweringly mature assessment based on?
You're judging the Sneijder and Ibrahimovic of now when you make such statements. They were just a talented trio of individuals who were making their way in the game.
How did that Ajax team do out of interest?
Also, don't resort to the petty name calling.