Can't find myself being worked up much about Franken. It could be crass humour, it could be a celebrity thinking he could get away with whatever he wanted during that time, it could be that he was/is a sex pest. The point is his past behaviours deserved to be punished, adversely affected his party and his resignation wouldnt effect their (non-existent) power in the Senate, so...
US Politics
- Thread starter Nick 0208 Ldn
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As far as I know he has denied all of them except the photo one. But here is why this is a problem. Its placing the emphasis on whether or not the person denied or not rather than an ethics investigation to determine veracity. It reinforces this frame that Roy Moore is okay because he simply denied everything.
There needs to be an objective process that vets claims and then investigates not based on whether or not the person denies or not. The precedent needs to be for an ethics investigation to verify the veracity of anonymous accusations on twitter. We will see how this plays out but I would be very worried this is going to lead to Moore getting elected and nothing happening solely because "he denied it" rather than ethics investigation being set as precedent.
There is a process for the charges to be investigated. The resignations though means there will be no investigation and the resignations speak loudly.
So the problem lies with the two men who have resigned rather than let the investigation either clear them or find them guilty.
Moore of course can not face a senate ethics investigation yet because he is not in the senate yet.
The Moore thing is potentially a long play? Get him in, hound him out, and do another special election with a new republican.
Sad thing is I'm not confident they'll hound him out.
Sad thing is I'm not confident they'll hound him out.
This is what I think will happen and why Franken should have let the investigation run its course. I don't believe the Republican leadership will hound Moore out and instead happily accept his far-right votes.
Shameful that people on Twitter are harassing one of the women who accused Franken of groping.
Not really shocked after the stories of previous complaints being covered up in the house and senate.
This will be a bloodbath.
There's no mechanism for hounding him out, except for hoping that the media attention shames him into bowing out.
If the tweet is correct then the Dems are doing the right thing in getting ahead of the moral curve. Once more cases are revealed the GOP will look increasingly idiotic with Roy Moore and Trump in office.
Hearing an interview by a union organiser where she is trying to explain why the Obamacare repeal failed and the tax bill passed. It is something I have been wondering about that as well.
Her explanation is that the insurance and medical lobbies were on the side of Obamacare, or split, while the corporate class was united in favour of the tax bill. She cites her experience fighting Medicaid cuts made by W: they were reversed when unions teamed up to lobby alongside comminity organisations, old-age homes and corporations like Kaizer Health. She believes the unions have power over ~10 senators in total, and thus can never win something they want and others don't.
Continuing, she thus explains why single-payer is tilting at windmills - it failed in California which has a Dem governor/house/senate, but where it was opposed by the combined might of the corporate class.
She also explains how the Janus case in the SC will make America right-to-work as a whole and remove the ~10% workers who are still unionised in the US. There is another case called Murphy oil. It is an attack on non-union worker organisation (which are useful for immigrant labour), and this will cut off a possible escape route after unions are finished**.
It is interesting to see what will happen to the Dem party and wealth distribution when the power of unions goes back to 1920s levels, minus the militancy that prevailed then.
However, on tax, I think she is underestimating a few things - the phrasing of the tax bill as a cut immediately makes it more popular than a healthcare repeal, and one of the crucial votes was Lisa Murkowski. Murkowski said yes on taxes because she finally got to kill polar bears* as she had wanted all along.
*She had indicated that she would be positive on healthcare if Alaskan oil drilling was allowed in that bill too.
**these organisations use protections under law that protect employees from being fired if they do any collective activity. In this case, any collective activity that is not explicitly union activity (for example the immigrant organising) is being challenged. And the DOJ is backing the challenge now. It will also allow, for example, women to be fired if they get together to sue their employer for sexual harassment.
Edit: @Carolina Red this is a crude Marxist analysis of the country
Her explanation is that the insurance and medical lobbies were on the side of Obamacare, or split, while the corporate class was united in favour of the tax bill. She cites her experience fighting Medicaid cuts made by W: they were reversed when unions teamed up to lobby alongside comminity organisations, old-age homes and corporations like Kaizer Health. She believes the unions have power over ~10 senators in total, and thus can never win something they want and others don't.
Continuing, she thus explains why single-payer is tilting at windmills - it failed in California which has a Dem governor/house/senate, but where it was opposed by the combined might of the corporate class.
She also explains how the Janus case in the SC will make America right-to-work as a whole and remove the ~10% workers who are still unionised in the US. There is another case called Murphy oil. It is an attack on non-union worker organisation (which are useful for immigrant labour), and this will cut off a possible escape route after unions are finished**.
It is interesting to see what will happen to the Dem party and wealth distribution when the power of unions goes back to 1920s levels, minus the militancy that prevailed then.
However, on tax, I think she is underestimating a few things - the phrasing of the tax bill as a cut immediately makes it more popular than a healthcare repeal, and one of the crucial votes was Lisa Murkowski. Murkowski said yes on taxes because she finally got to kill polar bears* as she had wanted all along.
*She had indicated that she would be positive on healthcare if Alaskan oil drilling was allowed in that bill too.
**these organisations use protections under law that protect employees from being fired if they do any collective activity. In this case, any collective activity that is not explicitly union activity (for example the immigrant organising) is being challenged. And the DOJ is backing the challenge now. It will also allow, for example, women to be fired if they get together to sue their employer for sexual harassment.
Edit: @Carolina Red this is a crude Marxist analysis of the country
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One solid witness will miraculously appear. Case closed.
yeah it was moronic how he sexually assaulted women
If you voted for Jill Stein, then you have way more in common with the GOP than you think.
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He hasn't admitted to most of the incidents.
I agree and vice versa.
His NYTimes editorial was more controversial if I recall correctly.
Fuuuuuck that Raoul. You know they don't give a shit. The easiest thing and moral thing the GOP and Trump could have done is disavow Moore and encourage a protest write in vote from people in Alabama. Instead they are saying they would rather a child molester than a Democrat and with their support for this scum they have validated that warped notion with their idiot base. And don't get me started on Trumps sexual allegations and the republican notion of if you deny it it never happened.
What about Trump Eboue? In you're opinion should there be a light shined on this sexual abuses considering it's well over a dozen. Maybe we should take his word that it didn't happen because they we not hot enough, he is infinitely more of a fecking scumbag then Franken. Do you agree or is you're vision of society is that a republican elected officials shouldn't face consequences at all.
fecking hell. We are probably one year away from this administration and their minions advocating people be burned at the stake. They want to take us back to a period in history when you take what you want by the blade of the sword.
Yes I am, valid fecking question so answer itare you serious with this shit?
its an idiotic question. ive never defended trump. of course he should resign. you guys think you are so superior to republicans with roy moore when you are doing something very similar.
the point of morality isnt to look better in comparison to someone else, its to do the moral thing. there are plenty of democrats who can be senators in minnesota who havent sexually assaulted anyone. lets get one of them.
Are you still there Eboue? Franken has a picture of him with his hands over the breast of a sleeping woman and some anonymous accusers and Trump has audio on him admitting how he likes to sexually assault women and at least 14 woman woman who have come forward and spoke to the media about their assault at the hands of Trump. Is there a difference and should the consequences be the same?
Don't see what's wrong with the tweet, as Eboue says it's perfectly possible to condemn the actions of Trump and demand his resignation while also expecting Democrats caught to do the same.
Roy Moore is a child molester, totally different situation with serious jail time attached. You don't go to jail for sexual harassment
There are a half dozen women who have accused him of groping them. I honestly thought "if you commit sexual assault you shouldnt be in the senate" wouldnt be so controversial.
Totally agree but Franken is done and more will follow. I will admit I was wrong on Franken at the start of all this but it is coming to its rightful conclusion yet the republican president is sailing by with Hukabee slapping it away saying it's different because trump never admitted it. Moore is different, he is a serious sexual predator who preyed on teenage girls and was being monitored at high school events by local police.
sexual assault sentences include jail time. groping is sexual assault.
its not different. moore should resign. trump should resign. franken should resign. anyone defending them because of which party they belong to needs to take a step back and reevaluate.
Not once did I say that. You posted a tweet of someone disparaging liberals yet a republican sits in office accused by more women then Franken of sexual assault and a GOP backed candidate accused of molesting children yet not a feckin peep out of conservatives.
Its been shameful the way some Democrats have behaved with the way they've defended Franken. Its definitely a minority but the bots/fake accounts have joined their side to make it look like the voters are evenly split on this.
True, but the Democrats should take the moral high-ground and get rid of their own offenders for the sake of decency. It's concerning that Republicans may not follow but it shouldn't stop the Dems from taking action all the same.