United under LvG: verdict so far!

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Van Gaal has the squad united and playing hard and he's done a good job defensively (though De Gea deserves a ton of the credit here too), but it's not a shock we finally look strong now that we're playing a 4-5-1 with Rooney up top and 2 fine Spanish midfielders in Mata and Herrera actually on the pitch and happily linking up on one side of the pitch.

I figured we'd play this way in most games and use the Dutch 3-4-1-2 in tougher away games or 2nd halves. It still might be the plan B for next year.
 
Up until the last two games we were being served up dog food! I'll reserve my judgement for now. I like LVG but he's been underwhelming imo to date in his time here. I get the feeling he has fallen into the 433 due to injuries of RVP and suspensions. When most fans were shouting for RVP to be dropped a while ago and move Rooney out of midfield and replaced with Herrera.
 
The performances have left a lot to be desired at times, but we've generally been getting results. Last season, we didn't get performance or a decent run. The last two games have given us a lot to be optimistic about, and if it continues like that until May, then LVG's first season can be considered a success. Or at least a good start.
 
I've made a conscious decision to give him the benefit of the doubt regarding the many months of selections and formations even people on here could see wouldn't work. Most of us have the benefit of having watched most of these players more than he has in recent years. You have the likes of Rooney, Di Maria, Falcao and RVP, you want to squeeze them all in. That's natural. What's important is his dogma didn't ruin our season. We still have a good chance to achieve our main goal for this year and he has seemingly moved on from his previous experiments. He deserves credit for that.
 
He will have learnt a lot about the players and I think we're seeing improvements. We still need to protect what we have so our performances after the international break will need to be of a similar vein. I think it's obvious though that somethings got lost in translation or perhaps the players were wary of the problems we were having with injuries at the back and lost the idea of balance. We were so negative at times, we defeated ourselves half the time by lacking any real ambition. We've done quite well in the big games and I think he's got an idea now and players like Fellaini, Young, Mata who are giving us a little something we've not seen consistently from them. We just got to take it game by game. Injuries and our form away from home seem to be being address finally, and we've obviously improved our home form this season. I think he's not done too bad overall.
 
If we hadn't of fecked about with Leicester away, Swansea double and Saints at home we'd be fighting for the league.
Hindsight eh..
 
Browniee said:
If we hadn't of fecked about with Leicester away, Swansea double and Saints at home we'd be fighting for the league.
Hindsight eh..
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Yeah, but if things were different for Chelsea too and they hadn't dropped points when they shouldn't have they'd be well clear.
 
Mitchell Nicholas said:
Yeah, but if things were different for Chelsea too and they hadn't dropped points when they shouldn't have they'd be well clear.
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name the points they dropped that were anything close to united if you would or can. maybe the draw v burnley/sund after a CL matches. the start of the season fuc4ed united.
 
mu77 said:
name the points they dropped that were anything close to united if you would or can. maybe the draw v burnley/sund after a CL matches. the start of the season fuc4ed united.
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You're right in saying that if United had started better, they'd be in a title race now.
 
Mitchell Nicholas said:
You're right in saying that if United had started better, they'd be in a title race now.
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united didn't win until mid sept , cska didn't lose until december. massive difference. and even after that united win they lost the next match. the table never lies that's why chelsea has a lead.
 
Hopefully somebody will be able to post a video of this interview with van Gaal.
 
Hopefully someone will record this somehow and make it availiable for us to see
 
Hopefully someone will reconstruct the visuals for viewing at a later point in time
 
Hopefully someone will do a low-budget reenactment for everyone to watch.
 
I'm pleased he has realised that his system wasn't workling and has adapted. Maybe in other countries he has worked in but not in England. It's no coincidence that we're playing better without the two strikers and with a lot more urgency. I hope he remains with our current formation and at home plays with more width. It excites the crowd and spurs the team on. I am happy with him at present.
 
Striker10 said:
He will have learnt a lot about the players and I think we're seeing improvements. We still need to protect what we have so our performances after the international break will need to be of a similar vein. I think it's obvious though that somethings got lost in translation or perhaps the players were wary of the problems we were having with injuries at the back and lost the idea of balance. We were so negative at times, we defeated ourselves half the time by lacking any real ambition. We've done quite well in the big games and I think he's got an idea now and players like Fellaini, Young, Mata who are giving us a little something we've not seen consistently from them. We just got to take it game by game. Injuries and our form away from home seem to be being address finally, and we've obviously improved our home form this season. I think he's not done too bad overall.
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It helps that our midfield has seen vast improvements in the signings since summer 2013 and 14, crazy even fellaini is included in these improvement, would any of us would say that? going from choosing with the likes carrick cleverly scholes giggs kagwa young and valencia, to carrick herrera blind mata fellaini janazaj di maria, there is far greater talent and age on this teams side now. But dropping the extra striker, using our resources in midfield with mata herrera fellaini to add with carrick back on track being that fantastic deep lying midfield he has proved for years, and using rooney upfront, who also gets involved in midfield the performances are changing 10 fold. But VG's possession game could be a valuable asset in Europe if we make it, and is proving to be a huge weapon in these big games. We used to say for years, our midfield is always getting overrun, look at us now? we are overrunning teams, and controlling games. If we continue this form for the rest of season and with no international football in the summer, use this momentum like the second half of the 2005/06 season, with the right signings we could really be a threat next season, taking this possession football to the next level.

But the 3 factors in us improving?
1 - changing to a more balanced system
2- using the talents we have in midfield
3 - the passing game has far more purpose than before

Because like I say, this is the most talented group of midfielders we have had in a very long time. VG is using our strengths now, instead of playing strikers well out of form, and there is size and technique in our midfield which is proving to be effective.
 
I may have said it before but it must be frustrating as a manager, when nobody understands what a good job you've actually been doing.

We've all been claiming we should play 433, we need to play our ball players etcetera etcetera and now we have, we've started playing some good football and getting good results. We all let out a sigh of relief "finally, van Gaal understands what he needs to down know, he's doing what we've said all along."

We often bypass the finer details of managers decisions and never question why and attempt to solve the mysteries as to why managers do what they do, we often ignore to satisfy the confidence in our own ability to analyse what the problems are.

We don't take into consideration that our players are probably just getting used to van Gaals philosophy now, and until then we couldn't play his desired formation. You lose the ball in a 433, you're more exposed than if you're in a 352 and even a diamond, because the players are naturally positioned more centrally. We play Herrera and question why we've never done it before, as if van Gaal has been calling him into his office every day for the past six months and just staring at him, thinking "what should I do with you?" No consideration that maybe, he's been keeping him out of the side to mould him into a more suitable player which gives him the best chance to succeed, and now he's excelling.

I understand our football this season has been unconvincing, it's been dull, boring, and largely inconsistent. I just detest such basic viewpoints that state the obvious though. I'm a guy who likes to understand what's going on, and every decision that's made whether it be a substitution, a position change, formation change etc. I want to ask questions as to what the thought process was behind those decisions, rather than rapidly concluding that the mans a lunatic.

So far this season, there's not many things van Gaal has done that I couldn't understand the logic behind, and I think upon reflection, it's no accident that we've suddenly began to play good football and we are in the position we are now. It's a long winded way of saying I have the utmost faith in van Gaal, and I believe anyone that doesn't should have another think.
 
ChrisG11 said:
I may have said it before but it must be frustrating as a manager, when nobody understands what a good job you've actually been doing.

We've all been claiming we should play 433, we need to play our ball players etcetera etcetera and now we have, we've started playing some good football and getting good results. We all let out a sigh of relief "finally, van Gaal understands what he needs to down know, he's doing what we've said all along."

We often bypass the finer details of managers decisions and never question why and attempt to solve the mysteries as to why managers do what they do, we often ignore to satisfy the confidence in our own ability to analyse what the problems are.

We don't take into consideration that our players are probably just getting used to van Gaals philosophy now, and until then we couldn't play his desired formation. You lose the ball in a 433, you're more exposed than if you're in a 352 and even a diamond, because the players are naturally positioned more centrally. We play Herrera and question why we've never done it before, as if van Gaal has been calling him into his office every day for the past six months and just staring at him, thinking "what should I do with you?" No consideration that maybe, he's been keeping him out of the side to mould him into a more suitable player which gives him the best chance to succeed, and now he's excelling.

I understand our football this season has been unconvincing, it's been dull, boring, and largely inconsistent. I just detest such basic viewpoints that state the obvious though. I'm a guy who likes to understand what's going on, and every decision that's made whether it be a substitution, a position change, formation change etc. I want to ask questions as to what the thought process was behind those decisions, rather than rapidly concluding that the mans a lunatic.

So far this season, there's not many things van Gaal has done that I couldn't understand the logic behind, and I think upon reflection, it's no accident that we've suddenly began to play good football and we are in the position we are now. It's a long winded way of saying I have the utmost faith in van Gaal, and I believe anyone that doesn't should have another think.
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Good post, particularly the bit in bold which I think is the best example of the broader point you are making.

I dont know whether the two up front thing fits into this though. Maybe it does but its harder to see how. I think that one is the more basic case of trying to find a way to use all your best players at once. Which as has been said numerous times before and by many people, is also quite understandable, especially for someone who hasnt seen many of these players up close before. (With Moyes it always nagged in the back of my mind, how can it take so long for someone to familiarise himself with the squad when he has been watching them play in the same league for as long as any of them have been playing football. I know it is a bit different when they are your players and you see them in training, but still I would have thought he would have got up to speed quicker.)
 
ChrisG11 said:
I may have said it before but it must be frustrating as a manager, when nobody understands what a good job you've actually been doing.

We've all been claiming we should play 433, we need to play our ball players etcetera etcetera and now we have, we've started playing some good football and getting good results. We all let out a sigh of relief "finally, van Gaal understands what he needs to down know, he's doing what we've said all along."

We often bypass the finer details of managers decisions and never question why and attempt to solve the mysteries as to why managers do what they do, we often ignore to satisfy the confidence in our own ability to analyse what the problems are.

We don't take into consideration that our players are probably just getting used to van Gaals philosophy now, and until then we couldn't play his desired formation. You lose the ball in a 433, you're more exposed than if you're in a 352 and even a diamond, because the players are naturally positioned more centrally. We play Herrera and question why we've never done it before, as if van Gaal has been calling him into his office every day for the past six months and just staring at him, thinking "what should I do with you?" No consideration that maybe, he's been keeping him out of the side to mould him into a more suitable player which gives him the best chance to succeed, and now he's excelling.

I understand our football this season has been unconvincing, it's been dull, boring, and largely inconsistent. I just detest such basic viewpoints that state the obvious though. I'm a guy who likes to understand what's going on, and every decision that's made whether it be a substitution, a position change, formation change etc. I want to ask questions as to what the thought process was behind those decisions, rather than rapidly concluding that the mans a lunatic.

So far this season, there's not many things van Gaal has done that I couldn't understand the logic behind, and I think upon reflection, it's no accident that we've suddenly began to play good football and we are in the position we are now. It's a long winded way of saying I have the utmost faith in van Gaal, and I believe anyone that doesn't should have another think.
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Great post mate. I agree.

It's funny how every caftard feels vindicated since the Spurs game that a simple change to 4-3-3 and Rooney up top on his own was all that was needed. And that LVG somehow stumbled upon the current setup through injuries and the Di Maria suspension.

In my opinion, our play was improving even before the Spurs game but our strikers were letting us down badly. We had a great start against Spurs including a couple of early goals and everything has clicked since.

LvG's work throughout the season has only just started to bear fruit. He took on a side low on confidence that only knew how to play one way, to hit the flanks and cross the ball. He now has a number of players playing above their talent level, implemented a much needed change in style and has us controlling games against the in form sides in the league.
 
MannyB said:
Great post mate. I agree.

It's funny how every caftard feels vindicated since the Spurs game that a simple change to 4-3-3 and Rooney up top on his own was all that was needed. And that LVG somehow stumbled upon the current setup through injuries and the Di Maria suspension.

In my opinion, our play was improving even before the Spurs game but our strikers were letting us down badly. We had a great start against Spurs including a couple of early goals and everything has clicked since.
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I think it's slightly more complicated than just the strikers not performing, allthough they were not great. To move the ball around quickly and with purpose you need all the players reacting quickly to every new situation, both in passing and moving without the ball. If one players hesitates a few hundreds of a second on the ball, the one who recieves the ball has less space. Or the reciever of the pass mistimes his run, it's not called a clockwork for nothing, if one cog is slow, the whole thing turns too slow. Falcao's first touch just isn't reliable enouhg, how can a player time his run if het doesn't know how many touches Falcao will need to get the ball to him? RvP often was looking to play it one touch, but then didn't find someone in the right space at exactly the right time, so than he had to take another touch, still no one, another touch and he passes it back. And than he got blamed for slowing the game down. This criticism isn't fair, among a lot of fair criticism though. Van Persie can do this 'new found' style, he will probably profit most from it, Falcao just lacks the technical ability to become good at it.
 
MDFC Manager said:
Hopefully someone will record/steam that.
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Mitchell Nicholas said:
Hopefully somebody will be able to post a video of this interview with van Gaal.
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Pexbo said:
Hopefully someone will record this somehow and make it availiable for us to see
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Welsh Wonder said:
Hopefully someone will reconstruct the visuals for viewing at a later point in time
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Maagge said:
Hopefully someone will do a low-budget reenactment for everyone to watch.
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carlosp said:
Hopefully someone will put it on YouTube so that we can all watch it.
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Blue always red said:
Hopefully Disney will buy the rights and reboot this 10 years later for our viewing pleasure.
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akash02 said:
Hopefully someone will put it up on RedTube so we can all watch it.
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:lol: This place on times :lol:
 
Ole's_toe_poke said:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...y-aware-just-flexible-Dutchman-really-be.html


Van Gaal, on his bed philosophy.
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Excellent read that. Really want to see that docu now.

As for his own thoughts on United, Van Gaal was equally impressed.

'The first feeling I had was especially after 11 matches when we had 13 points and I came in the stadium and I thought the fans shall not be pleased,' he said.

'The fans rose and clapped me when I entered. Now I see the greatness of the club.'
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Salfordlad70 said:
I'm pleased he has realised that his system wasn't workling and has adapted. Maybe in other countries he has worked in but not in England. It's no coincidence that we're playing better without the two strikers and with a lot more urgency. I hope he remains with our current formation and at home plays with more width. It excites the crowd and spurs the team on. I am happy with him at present.
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what?
 
Salfordlad70 said:
I was commenting on his system of playing three Centre backs and it not working in the prem. He has used it most everywhere he has worked but it does'nt suit the premier league.
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I might be wrong, but I think he has only ever used 3 at the back at Ajax. Talking about club football only.
 
Maybe I'm wrong. I'm pretty sure he used it at Barca, and I'm aware he used such a system at Ajax and at international level with the Dutch. Prsonally I am delighted he saw fit to accept his system of playing three at the back wasn't working. I thought he was going to stubbornly persist with it and leave us floundering mid table.
 
Salfordlad70 said:
I was commenting on his system of playing three Centre backs and it not working in the prem. He has used it most everywhere he has worked but it does'nt suit the premier league.
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4-3-3 with Barcelona, 4-4-2 with AZ, 4-2-3-1 with Bayern, he has also said about a million times now that 4-3-3 is his most preferred formation because it provides the most balance.

He played 3 at the back with his Ajax team, he used a diamond in the middle, it was 3-4-3 and during the world cup he played 3-4-1-2 however that was because Strootman got injured and he didn't have a good enough replacement to play 4-3-3, he already had a weak squad and so he needed to come up with a new plan otherwise he knew he wouldn't make it past a group containing both Spain and Chile, he went with 3 at the back but that was forced on him.
 
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