United under LvG: verdict so far!

[OneUnited24]

he has a point though, this lineup wouldn't have happened. We look good due to Rooney being upfront again, and far away from midfield

Its all ifs buts and maybes but prior to RvPs injury he was starting to be pulled earlier and earlier, so its not to believe he would have been dropped. I could see LvG trying to play Di Maria into form like he did with RvP but i also see him pulling Di Maria if he wasnt making an impact which would have brought Mata back into the team.

Still we will never truly know but i'm giving the benefit of the doubt to a man who is a proven manager. And not to forget one who has shown his ability to size up a squad and get the best out of them.

 

[Van Piorsing]

His 4-3-3 philosophy is still missing few class players to cement everything in case of injury plague but he's slowly getting there both with news, rumours and most of all performances and that will definitely help in the final judgement of his first season.

 

[mu77]

midfs playing in midf - he's a fuc4ing genius. putting a striker in the striker role , fuc4ing di vinci. he has got the best from mata and the big fella.

 

[carlosp]

Well how do you explain Matas resurgence on the right wing? The whole "he stumbled onto a winning formula" is a insulting to a man who's had such a good career in the game. It also ignores the fact that he has a history of setting his teams up like this.

Given the injuries we've had this season and new signings its not outside the realms of possibility that he just needed time to assess everything and fit the players into a working system. Which all happened to manifest when we had our biggest games of the season.

I agree. Also the fact the he inherited a team from Moyes that was down on motivation and lacked the killer instinct. He now should be credited for bringing the winning desire back.

Thank you Louis van Gaal.

 

[Someone]

I've called him a clown before, but he's now a clown i like.

 

[thejtrain]

Have the players understood his philosophy now then? Heck, has anyone found what his philosophy is?

Probably winning is his philosophy.

 

[carlosp]

Have the players understood his philosophy now then? Heck, has anyone found what his philosophy is?

Probably winning is his philosophy.

Check a few pages back, pictures from the United website.

 

[nick2004]

There is only one reason we are not in the title race right now: Mourinho!

And guess who gifted Chelsea with Mourinho? That's right! Our very own SAF and SBC!

Think about it!

Even after our terrible start this season, we would be fighting for first place if Chelsea did not have Mourinho as their manager.

 

[Xaviesta]

There is only one reason we are not in the title race right now: Mourinho!

And guess who gifted Chelsea with Mourinho? That's right! Our very own SAF and SBC!

Think about it!

Even after our terrible start this season, we would be fighting for first place if Chelsea did not have Mourinho as their manager.

All about the stability breeding sucess for Sir Bobby Charlton. Ferguson somehow saw a younger version of himself in Moyes. Mourinho, Guardiola, Ancelotti and probably van Gaal are more Ferguson than Moyes ever Weill be Scottish roots aside.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

There is only one reason we are not in the title race right now: Mourinho!

And guess who gifted Chelsea with Mourinho? That's right! Our very own SAF and SBC!

Think about it!

Even after our terrible start this season, we would be fighting for first place if Chelsea did not have Mourinho as their manager.

The reason we aren't in the title race is our slow start to the season and it being LVGs first season in charge and mourinho's second.

 

[nick2004]

The reason we aren't in the title race is our slow start to the season and it being LVGs first season in charge and mourinho's second.

No. Mourinho is something else. He is exceptional.

It will be extremely hard for anyone to beat Mourinho.

Even SAF could manage to beat Mourinho only after Jose had a fight with Abramovich.

Unfortunately, both Jose and Roman are much more experienced now, and much older, and I do not expect any fights or break ups. I wouldn't be surprised if Mourinho stays at Chelsea for 10 years and breaks all managerial records. It will be very hard for any team to beat Mourinho's Chelsea.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

No. Mourinho is something else. He is exceptional.

It will be extremely hard for anyone to beat Mourinho.

Even SAF could manage to beat Mourinho only after Jose had a fight with Abramovich.

Unfortunately, both Jose and Roman are much more experienced now, and much older, and I do not expect any fights or break ups. I wouldn't be surprised if Mourinho stays at Chelsea for 10 years and breaks all managerial records. It will be very hard for any team to beat Mourinho's Chelsea.

Had we not started the season slowly and without our new signings, we would have been in a title race. Statistically we have been as good as any team over the last 20 odd games. Mourinho being very good or in your words "something else" doesn't change what the peformances this seaosn actually say.

Also, despite your incredibly high opinion of him, mourinho was completely out peformed by brendon rodgers as a manager last season.

And the Saf comment is ridiculous. We were in transition and mourinho was given a blank cheque so obviously he was going to win titles.

 

[MDFC Manager]

No. Mourinho is something else. He is exceptional.

It will be extremely hard for anyone to beat Mourinho.

Even SAF could manage to beat Mourinho only after Jose had a fight with Abramovich.

Unfortunately, both Jose and Roman are much more experienced now, and much older, and I do not expect any fights or break ups. I wouldn't be surprised if Mourinho stays at Chelsea for 10 years and breaks all managerial records. It will be very hard for any team to beat Mourinho's Chelsea.

This Chelsea team is nothing special. The fact that they're so far ahead isn't indicative of Mourinhos quality at all.

 

[MrMarcello]

Had we not started the season slowly and without our new signings, we would have been in a title race. Statistically we have been as good as any team over the last 20 odd games. Mourinho being very good or in your words "something else" doesn't change what the peformances this seaosn actually say.

Also, despite your incredibly high opinion of him, mourinho was completely out peformed by brendon rodgers as a manager last season.

And the Saf comment is ridiculous. We were in transition and mourinho was given a blank cheque so obviously he was going to win titles.

Hold up. If you're going to use the "first season" claim to defend LVG then it certainly applies to Mourinho's "first season" back in the league last season. He's clearly ten times the manager Rodgers is. Last season was a fluke for Rodgers; we've all known this. Form is temporary, class is permanent. Mourinho is easily TBMITW currently, club performances or not.

 

[MrMarcello]

This Chelsea team is nothing special. The fact that they're so far ahead isn't indicative of Mourinhos quality at all.

So United's 2012-13 was nothing special, just that every other club wasn't anything special either. But we've all agreed SAF was the difference - gotta give Mourinho at least a hint of credit here versus continued sour grapes by the anti-Mourinho tripe.

 

[dasty]

I'm still a bit unsure about LVG, the reason being is because I think he stumbled on this winning formula by accident with RVP being injured and Di Maria suspended. I hope we are not going to see Van Persie simply walk back into the starting 11 next week.

Results and performance wise the last 3 games have simply been fantastic, Rooney should have gave that damn speech before the Arsenal game, it would have been nice to get some silverware this season and stop Arsenal overtaking our FA Cup record.

Because football is all about playing players in a fixed formation? Tactics, philosophy, player's mental state etc doesn't matter, it is only about the players and the formation. Sounds like FIFA15.

 

[MDFC Manager]

So United's 2012-13 was nothing special, just that every other club wasn't anything special either. But we've all agreed SAF was the difference - gotta give Mourinho at least a hint of credit here versus continued sour grapes by the anti-Mourinho tripe.

I'm ready to give him more than just a hint of credit. My objection was to this:
"It will be extremely hard for anyone to beat Mourinho."

That's clearly untrue, and the reason for that is that Chelsea haven't been Mourinho-good this calendar year.

 

[nick2004]

I'm ready to give him more than just a hint of credit. My objection was to this:
"It will be extremely hard for anyone to beat Mourinho."

That's clearly untrue, and the reason for that is that Chelsea haven't been Mourinho-good this calendar year.

They won the league in January. What else do you want from him? To win the league in November?

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Hold up. If you're going to use the "first season" claim to defend LVG then it certainly applies to Mourinho's "first season" back in the league last season. He's clearly ten times the manager Rodgers is. Last season was a fluke for Rodgers; we've all known this. Form is temporary, class is permanent. Mourinho is easily TBMITW currently, club performances or not.

Yes you can apply it there too except rodgers squad was vastly inferior to mourinho's and he's a young and upcoming manager and not an established one. Mourinho's first season wasn't even his first, really.

Moruinho isn't "easily" the best manager in the world. Only fans of the premier league seem to believe this. Guardiola is right up there and possibly the best, as is ancelotti. Then there's Simeone who has probably been the best or thereabouts the last few seasons winning the europa and making atletico a top top side.

Mourinho's time in madrid was a bit average, and now he's won the league in his second attempt in England. In this period there is simply nothing to suggest that he stands out from the pack of top managers. If anything, I'd say Simeone is the one who has been the best in this period, or guardiola.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

So United's 2012-13 was nothing special, just that every other club wasn't anything special either. But we've all agreed SAF was the difference - gotta give Mourinho at least a hint of credit here versus continued sour grapes by the anti-Mourinho tripe.

Yes United of 12-13 wasn't special. Certainly not anywhere near the likes of recent great teams of Barca or Bayern or even ours.

Also there's a middle ground between "not giving a hint of credit" and "mourinho is something else, CLEARLY TBMITW", which he isn't. One can give him credit without going way overboard becuase he's doing it in the league you watch.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

@MrMarcello lets have a look at Diego Simeone. Guardiola is considered right up there but let's focus on someone's last 4 years.

He won the europa league in his first season. He beat chelsea to win the super cup the following season, won the copa del rey and finished third. Then, he follows that up with a season few could think possible some years back by beating madrid and barca to the title and coming very close to winning the cl final against Real Madrid. He's also been chosen as la liga's manager of the season two season in a row now.

All of this with ATLETICO MADRID. I can't see how currently any manager, even guardiola , or mourinho, or ancelotti, can be claimed to be comfortably the best manager in the world when Simeone has achieved something so incredible with atletico.

 

[noodlehair]

He has stumbled upon something that works. I don't think there's much of an argument against that. Most people on here have been saying for ages that Rooney should be up front and a midfielder should be in midfield.

He's started playing a team of players who are comfortable and used to the roles they're playing in, and suddenly we look a lot better. The problem is it's still VERY unclear why he spent a majority of the season deliberately not doing this. He didn't need to play Rooney in midfield for half a season to realise he wasn't a midfielder. He didn't need to play Di Maria up front to realise he wasn't a striker. He only stopped using Van Persie because he got injured. He's only moved Blind into his actual position because Carrick is fit and Shaw got injured. We didn't need to play Stoke tactics for about a month and a half to realise that they were Stoke tactics. None of it was progression it was all just senseless stupidity.

We have started playing with a lot more intensity which is something he has mentioned many times this season that we need to start doing. We are also pressing more effectively higher up the pitch which again is something you would think he has been asking for, so there are also things which you can say are down to him.

We'll have to see what happens from here. If he sticks with what's working then fair enough, maybe he can build on it...but if the circus lines ups start being rolled out again then really there are no excuses left.

I didn't think we were as good yesterday, but it was still a hell of a lot better than what we've been serving up for most of the season. We looked like a decent team not at their best, rather than a kind of fumbling motorway accident that somehow gets its opponent caught up in the wreckage.

 

[Ixion]

I don't think it's fair to say Van Gaal has stumbled upon a system. Young, Valencia and Fellaini look like different players under him and he has found a way to reward their form and fit them into a formation aswell as a place for Mata, Blind and Herrera. Fellaini's current position and how we're using him is not a fluke, that is something Val Gaal has figured out. For half of the season he had to manage a ridiculous injury crisis and rarely even had a fit central defender yet still we were top 4 by the turn of the year, he deserves some credit for that.

In fact Van Gaal didn't have to come up with a best XI before the turn of the year because so many players were injured, since the injuries have cleared up he has had to figure out how to best piece them together and it's taken a couple of months but he's managed it.

 

[Sultan]

@noodlehair says is pretty much correct.

Signing Falcao probably ended up costing us challenging for the title. Trying to integrate him and an out of form RvP into the team made/force LvG into some very odd selections and formations. Not a nice thing to say but also the injury to RvP has been very timely.

Who'd have thought having arguably the 2 best forwards in the world would end up causing the team to not function?

 

[All 3 United]

I have to admit I was losing faith a few weeks ago but credit where credit is due, we look like a decent team now. Even against Villa yesterday we kept the ball better that I've seen for a very long time. Imo we're a few players short of the going to the next stage of pushing more players into the opponents box and attacking more consistently throughout a game.

 

[MDFC Manager]

Playing the system he had favored all his life is seen as stumbling across it.

 

[Summit]

@noodlehair says is pretty much correct.

Signing Falcao probably ended up costing us challenging for the title. Trying to integrate him and an out of form RvP into the team made/force LvG into some very odd selections and formations. Not a nice thing to say but also the injury to RvP has been very timely.

Who'd have thought having arguably the 2 best forwards in the world would end up causing the team to not function?

The real test IMO will be when RvP is fit to play. Will LvG try and shoehorn him back into the side? I think he will.

 

[Nighteyes]

Playing the system he had favored all his life is seen as stumbling across it.

There's nothing wrong in saying he stumbled across the right system/players. In fact that's exactly what has happened.

He's not the first manager to stumble across the right team and won't be the last. It's happened to Fergie as well.

 

[noodlehair]

Playing the system he had favored all his life is seen as stumbling across it.

It's not the system that's been down to us suddenly playing better. He's been using the same system for a while now. He's just stopped playing loads of players in the wrong positions and wrong roles in the system, largely not through his own choice.

He's stumbled across playing Rooney as a striker because RVP got injured. Mata only got in the team because Di Maria decided to claw a referee in the back. Herrera only got in the team because he was forced to play Rooney up front. Blind only went to left back because Shaw got injured. This isn't an opinion or perspective. It's what's actually happened.

These are largely things people have been crying out for him to do for a long while.

Also, if he's favoured the system all his life, then you have to wonder why he spent over half the season deliberately using different ones which clearly didn't suit the team.

It's not like there's suddenly no question marks because we've played well for a few games, but there's at least something now to base a positive argument on. Feeble as it sounds, it's actually been a very long time since we looked convincing for three games in a row. You have to go back to before Moyes was in charge.

 

[steve zizou]

There's nothing wrong in saying he stumbled across the right system/players. In fact that's exactly what has happened.

He's not the first manager to stumble across the right team and won't be the last. It's happened to Fergie as well.

I agree with you.
I dont get Why the word "stumbled across" would be used disapprovingly. Football management isn't an exact science. The job of a manager is to continually try things until s/he finds a perfect or adequate solution. Some managers find it in game 1, others never find it. Issue is there are soo many factors(some outside control of the manager) which prolong the process.
@noodlehair and co are trying the "I told you so" line, however nothing shows current formation/personnel would've worked 2/3 months ago.

 

[Riz]

@MrMarcello lets have a look at Diego Simeone. Guardiola is considered right up there but let's focus on someone's last 4 years.

He won the europa league in his first season. He beat chelsea to win the super cup the following season, won the copa del rey and finished third. Then, he follows that up with a season few could think possible some years back by beating madrid and barca to the title and coming very close to winning the cl final against Real Madrid. He's also been chosen as la liga's manager of the season two season in a row now.

All of this with ATLETICO MADRID. I can't see how currently any manager, even guardiola , or mourinho, or ancelotti, can be claimed to be comfortably the best manager in the world when Simeone has achieved something so incredible with atletico.

Here here.

 

[Hernandez - BFA]

I still find it incredible that if we had improved our away form a wee bit, we'd actually be challenging Chelsea right now.

With all that panic in the first half of the season, we're so close (but out of reach) to the title. Incredible really.

 

[Dr. Funkenstein]

@MrMarcello lets have a look at Diego Simeone. Guardiola is considered right up there but let's focus on someone's last 4 years.

He won the europa league in his first season. He beat chelsea to win the super cup the following season, won the copa del rey and finished third. Then, he follows that up with a season few could think possible some years back by beating madrid and barca to the title and coming very close to winning the cl final against Real Madrid. He's also been chosen as la liga's manager of the season two season in a row now.

All of this with ATLETICO MADRID. I can't see how currently any manager, even guardiola , or mourinho, or ancelotti, can be claimed to be comfortably the best manager in the world when Simeone has achieved something so incredible with atletico.

I agree that the best performing managers are the managers who make the team and club punch above their weight. But of course this is difficult to do when you're managing a heavy weight. Nontheless, did Guardiola actually perform that well? With Messi, Iniesta and the rest he certainly had the best players in the world, still not every CL season was very convincing and even in the ones he won, he often needed some crucial decisions from the referee to get to the final. At Bayern he failed so far at the highest level. It's easy to admire his work because it's so clearly a managers work we're seeing at Barca or Bayern, but actually his teams are a tiny bit weaker than one should expect looking at the quality of the players.

If there's one manager who can claim to have achieved more incredible things than Simeone it is Van Gaal. His WC was impressive, but his Ajax was smaller and way poorer than this Atletico relative to the European giants of the time. He did not only reach the CL final, he won it and ruled Europe for two years. He didn't do it with the easier defensive style, but in great attacking style, showing everyone how football also could be played. So if we rank the managers by incredible performances, Van Gaal is on top, then there is nothing, and below that there are Simeone and Mourinho.

 

[Shark]

I have to admit I was losing faith a few weeks ago but credit where credit is due, we look like a decent team now. Even against Villa yesterday we kept the ball better that I've seen for a very long time. Imo we're a few players short of the going to the next stage of pushing more players into the opponents box and attacking more consistently throughout a game.

I'd say we look better than decent. We dominated Liverpool at Anfield, Spurs at Old Trafford and now Villa couldn't see the ball. We're transforming into a very good team.

 

[rover]

people keep saying:

rooney to be the striker
herrerra has to start
and mata also

that's the reason why we are being "resurrection" right now......

is it really true?

how about at the beginning of the season

was that not happening?

and then what's the result we got of that time being?

it's just mused me so much....


go justify your claims folks

 

[Ringo 07]

LVG will have been a revelation in fairness if he gets us back into the top 4

 

[Suedesi]

There is only one reason we are not in the title race right now: Mourinho!

And guess who gifted Chelsea with Mourinho? That's right! Our very own SAF and SBC!

Think about it!

Even after our terrible start this season, we would be fighting for first place if Chelsea did not have Mourinho as their manager.

feck Mourinho, he's such a sourpuss. And he'll be gone out Chelsea in 2 years leaving that team in disarray.

 

[pseudo_canadian]

I still find it incredible that if we had improved our away form a wee bit, we'd actually be challenging Chelsea right now.

With all that panic in the first half of the season, we're so close (but out of reach) to the title. Incredible really.

Yeah it's pretty frustrating when you think about it. We were saying it months ago how our away form would ultimately cost us a much better finish, and it definitely will.

Even the two losses at home to Southampton and Swansea, just imagine if we had won those games instead.

 

[OneUnited24]

Also, if he's favoured the system all his life, then you have to wonder why he spent over half the season deliberately using different ones which clearly didn't suit the team.

I think the injuries to our defenders and other key positions influenced the changes:

• We started the season as a 352, its not hard to understand why given LvG success with it at the World Cup.
• Shortly after LvG realised how rigid it was and we moved to a 442 diamond, while it was attractive to watch it became apparent the system exposed our defenders to the point where we were letting in goals left right and centre.
• We then reverted back to a 3-5-2 which made us hard to beat and protected our defenders. It was dreadful to watch but got us a lot of vital wins along the way. Given our injury record during this time our points tally was very impressive.
• The injury crisis only eased around Jan/Feb and shortly after we reverted to a 4132, and then to this 433 vs Tottenham (I think we moved to a back four vs Burnley and, for me, that was the turning point where our football has been getting progressively better after each game).

Looking at the reasons for the constant changes makes me sympathise with LvG and appreciate how all his tinkering was the best decision at the time (even if i didn't agree with it at the time and thought i knew better!). You also cannot ignore the fact that he is a manager in a new league taking over a side that had no real direction and a extremely unbalanced squad. I'm sure he would admit it has taken him a little longer to get to know the players and impose his ideas but its getting there.

Everyone says he discovered the 433 by accident but the question i ask is if it was by accident how do you explain Mata and Herreras form the past few games? Granted they always linked up well but right now they seem to be tailor fitted in this 433 with Valencia to provide the width as he knows Mata is not going to hug the touchline. Herrera himself has admitted hes had to change his style of football to fit LvGs vision, so its not outside the realms of possibility that our manager had a long term game plan which was disrupted by injuries but is now taking flight.

 

[Ole's_toe_poke]

You have to also take into account that from August to about December he never had the luxury of a fully fit squad. Just look at our starting 11 vs Swansea in the first game of the season for example.

Since the end of Jan most of the players have come back and gotten minutes under their belt and slowly but surely he's been able to pick a consistent side.