United under LvG: verdict so far!

[SonnyTheHaloPro]

I'm a Wenger fan, I just used him as an example who's equally not had a stellar league title collection, to Ancelotti, yet people, particuarly some Arsenal fans treat him like dirt due to to it, yet Ancelotti with a very similar league title count in that time is put on a pedestal with the ilk of Mourinho and Guardiola.
I dont think hes in that class, but his CL reccord shouldnt be discounted, as you bring it up.

I'm confident LvG will be better next year, for several reasons, condensing it, so not to bore you, Our start this year was awful, like 12 points from the opening 10 games was it not? against the likes of Sunderland, Burnley, Leicester, Swansea etc, while LvG got used to his squad and the Premier League, next season will account for being more comfortable entering the campgain, we shouldnt have to endure such a poor run of results against poor sides again entering the season from inexperience of the league (which we're still feeling to an extent now).

Secondly I think hes missing 3 important players to make his side tick, again to be very short, that CB that we all know we need, which will allow him to trust our defence more and take the handbreaks off, the Box to Box midfielder which he clearly feels we lack (having tried Rooney there hes been so desperate to recreate what he wants) and obviously Pace up front, and on the wings,
He can see so clearly when teams play so high against us, box us in currently and press us high, They're not scared of us inbehind, Yesterday Arsenal had Mertesacker up near our half way line! the slowest asshole Ive ever seen, and they had the audacity to play him so high because they knew we couldnt hurt them inbehind, its a huge deficiancy in our squad right now.

Once he gets those things Im sure our football will improve, because ive seen this guy play good football at his other clubs,
I also fear hitting the panic button to early, 4 managers in 4 years, all having bought their own type of player (costing in the hundreds of millions) could leave us with a completely disjointed squad should the next guy not work out in his first season also.

Ok thanks and Fair enough.

But even recently we have failed to put away Aston Villa, Swansea, West Ham so I don't think we've improved that much regarding those teams. We've also yet to beat a team in the top 10 in 2015 which is a massive concern for me coming into these fixtures.

 

[NL Max]

If the above is actually true, I have a MAJOR problem with his tactics!!!

Well, they should be ready to defend. Football can be a simple game, but a professional footballer should be able to work out that a real game of football is not like attack v defence. Shit happens, you're a professional footballer. BE prepared for fecks sake.

Is he that naieve? No player can not lose the ball 'at all costs' . It doesn't matter how loud you say it, or how many times you haul a player off at half time. Teams and players will all lose the ball. Tactically, you set up the team to cope with this. A player losing the ball should not be catastrophic for the team by default. It's stupid.

He is supposed to see the game and react accordingly. He is making the team weaker than it actually is with his tactics and player selection. Plus, the tactical inflexibility is more than a cause for concern. I'd go as far as saying it is making it easier for the manager of the opposition to attack our weaknesses. I don't think he can see the approach he has is not working. His changes, which are supposed to be, of benefit to the team, have sometimes made it worse. But if he cannot read the game unfolding in front of his own eyes and adapt then that's not good enough in my opinion. An all conquering team has to be more flexible than the one he presents. He is representing Manchester United, Manchester United are not representing LvG.

Then he must be sacked, if he fails. The best managers evolve as the game evolves. He could well be stuck in the past. Time will tell. Since when can adaptability not be a positive virtue??

It's his own bloody fault and we are suffering for it. Frankly he should have done his homework better!

Yes, it has, and he persisted far too long with it too. Again, the inability to recognize when change is needed is a flaw, and extremely worrying.

Maybe he won't have to make sacrifices if the team is set up adequately enough. It's fair to say, I think that there is room for improvement! There is sufficient quality in the squad (despite all it's limitations) to do FAR better.

Well that's his tactics for you, with a little bit of research you can find this. His gameplan is attacking wise in ball possesion of non-creative players untill the risk takers have got it. They then expect something to happen and position themselves to possibly defend. They're positioned to attack when Herrera has the ball, so it's not that they're not thinking about defending but they're not in a defensive shape (he specifically tells his players where to position when Herrera has the ball and that's a position to attack).

His style has always been high risk-high reward. Perform it well and you play good football, one player who doesn't follow orders and his tactics are terrible. That's why he's playing Fellaini up front, this has always been one of his plan B's. It's a way to take pressure off the defence because it's an easy route out if our defenders get stuck during the build-up. Is it pretty? No, but without 352 he's lacking the players for other formations so he has to be pragmatic.

No player has 100% pass accuracy. Football is a game of mistakes, the aim is to always do better. So not wanting to lose the ball is perfect legitimate task for a player. Does this happen? No, that's why he's never only scored and not conceded in a season.

Sometimes they made it worse, other times his substitutions have worked out. Again, don't see anything strange there. He's not substituting players without a reason, it's all part of his gameplan. It might not be yours', but it's how he has always played and will continue to do so.

'But if he cannot read the game unfolding in front of his own eyes'. You know this is his strongest asset? He reads the game perfectly, but he looks at it from his perspective: how he set the team up and with which tasks he gave to the players. A substitution may look weird, but they always have an idea behind them. Do they work 100% of the time? No, but name me any manager who has done this.

Van Gaal and not tactically flexible? We've played so many formations already and switched mid-game multiple times already. It's more likely the opposite: he uses tactics maybe too much, but then again that has seen him bring in trophies.

He couldn't really do much homework, you know with the worldcup and everything. He had only the preseason to base things on and everything went well back then. With other experiments: you can't make decisions after 1 game, he'd have chopped and changed things so much more if he did. He ultimately changed everything which wasn't working. Like I said: if you look from his POV it's incredibly hard to find a starting 11 without 352 so he was keen to try multiple solutions. I don't blame him for it, but it certainly hasn't helped him. That's why we haven't seen the true van Gaal way yet, I'm sure we will see this at some point.

He had to learn on the job and he's made many mistakes. This has cost us points, yep. He's eventually corrected them all so far and he has a clear direction he's taking us in. You might not see it, but you have to know how he likes to play the game or wait untill we see the finished product. He's always thinking about and setting us up for the long term and Fellaini is a short term solution for our problems at the moment. I think he's done OK so far, with the unbalanced selection severly crippling him as he has very high standards.

 

[sajeev]

Well that's his tactics for you, with a little bit of research you can find this. His gameplan is attacking wise in ball possesion of non-creative players untill the risk takers have got it. They then expect something to happen and position themselves to possibly defend. They're positioned to attack when Herrera has the ball, so it's not that they're not thinking about defending but they're not in a defensive shape (he specifically tells his players where to position when Herrera has the ball and that's a position to attack).

His style has always been high risk-high reward. Perform it well and you play good football, one player who doesn't follow orders and his tactics are terrible. That's why he's playing Fellaini up front, this has always been one of his plan B's. It's a way to take pressure off the defence because it's an easy route out if our defenders get stuck during the build-up. Is it pretty? No, but without 352 he's lacking the players for other formations so he has to be pragmatic.

No player has 100% pass accuracy. Football is a game of mistakes, the aim is to always do better. So not wanting to lose the ball is perfect legitimate task for a player. Does this happen? No, that's why he's never only scored and not conceded in a season.

Sometimes they made it worse, other times his substitutions have worked out. Again, don't see anything strange there. He's not substituting players without a reason, it's all part of his gameplan. It might not be yours', but it's how he has always played and will continue to do so.

'But if he cannot read the game unfolding in front of his own eyes'. You know this is his strongest asset? He reads the game perfectly, but he looks at it from his perspective: how he set the team up and with which tasks he gave to the players. A substitution may look weird, but they always have an idea behind them. Do they work 100% of the time? No, but name me any manager who has done this.

Van Gaal and not tactically flexible? We've played so many formations already and switched mid-game multiple times already. It's more likely the opposite: he uses tactics maybe too much, but then again that has seen him bring in trophies.

He couldn't really do much homework, you know with the worldcup and everything. He had only the preseason to base things on and everything went well back then. With other experiments: you can't make decisions after 1 game, he'd have chopped and changed things so much more if he did. He ultimately changed everything which wasn't working. Like I said: if you look from his POV it's incredibly hard to find a starting 11 without 352 so he was keen to try multiple solutions. I don't blame him for it, but it certainly hasn't helped him. That's why we haven't seen the true van Gaal way yet, I'm sure we will see this at some point.

He had to learn on the job and he's made many mistakes. This has cost us points, yep. He's eventually corrected them all so far and he has a clear direction he's taking us in. You might not see it, but you have to know how he likes to play the game or wait untill we see the finished product. He's always thinking about and setting us up for the long term and Fellaini is a short term solution for our problems at the moment. I think he's done OK so far, with the unbalanced selection severly crippling him as he has very high standards.

Are you getting paid for this? A lot of apologetics for a load of crap that we are witnessing under LvG. He is yet to put up a performance to come close to even match Moyes' best, and you go on preaching as if his football/tactics/philosophy are something like the special theory of relativity which ordinary people can't decipher.

He might have been great in the past (and his Ajax team were great) but after 2000, he hasn't achieved much. Well, he won the league with AZ but then McClaren won it with Twente and he is managing in the Championship. With Bayern, they got much better after he left, and the claim is that it is on the basis of his work, which is neither here nor there as Bayern really weren't that good to watch under him, got lucky with the Rafael sending off in the CL. And he nearly got Bayern out of the CL places in his second season. So his man-management skills aren't great, the only reason to hold on to him now is blind faith based on his past performance from over 15 years ago while discarding performances of players as recent as 18 months ago

 

[Jazz]

Well that's his tactics for you, with a little bit of research you can find this. His gameplan is attacking wise in ball possesion of non-creative players untill the risk takers have got it. They then expect something to happen and position themselves to possibly defend. They're positioned to attack when Herrera has the ball, so it's not that they're not thinking about defending but they're not in a defensive shape (he specifically tells his players where to position when Herrera has the ball and that's a position to attack).

His style has always been high risk-high reward. Perform it well and you play good football, one player who doesn't follow orders and his tactics are terrible. That's why he's playing Fellaini up front, this has always been one of his plan B's. It's a way to take pressure off the defence because it's an easy route out if our defenders get stuck during the build-up. Is it pretty? No, but without 352 he's lacking the players for other formations so he has to be pragmatic.

No player has 100% pass accuracy. Football is a game of mistakes, the aim is to always do better. So not wanting to lose the ball is perfect legitimate task for a player. Does this happen? No, that's why he's never only scored and not conceded in a season.

Sometimes they made it worse, other times his substitutions have worked out. Again, don't see anything strange there. He's not substituting players without a reason, it's all part of his gameplan. It might not be yours', but it's how he has always played and will continue to do so.

'But if he cannot read the game unfolding in front of his own eyes'. You know this is his strongest asset? He reads the game perfectly, but he looks at it from his perspective: how he set the team up and with which tasks he gave to the players. A substitution may look weird, but they always have an idea behind them. Do they work 100% of the time? No, but name me any manager who has done this.

Van Gaal and not tactically flexible? We've played so many formations already and switched mid-game multiple times already. It's more likely the opposite: he uses tactics maybe too much, but then again that has seen him bring in trophies.

He couldn't really do much homework, you know with the worldcup and everything. He had only the preseason to base things on and everything went well back then. With other experiments: you can't make decisions after 1 game, he'd have chopped and changed things so much more if he did. He ultimately changed everything which wasn't working. Like I said: if you look from his POV it's incredibly hard to find a starting 11 without 352 so he was keen to try multiple solutions. I don't blame him for it, but it certainly hasn't helped him. That's why we haven't seen the true van Gaal way yet, I'm sure we will see this at some point.

He had to learn on the job and he's made many mistakes. This has cost us points, yep. He's eventually corrected them all so far and he has a clear direction he's taking us in. You might not see it, but you have to know how he likes to play the game or wait untill we see the finished product. He's always thinking about and setting us up for the long term and Fellaini is a short term solution for our problems at the moment. I think he's done OK so far, with the unbalanced selection severly crippling him as he has very high standards.

This is a pretty fair analysis. Agree with you.

 

[Fully Fledged]

I've argued against this before. Theoretically speaking you are correct, of course. But it can't be stated how damaging losing can be. It sets in a rot mentality that we saw last season. If you lose 3 out of 5 games, I'd really worry about the state of mind of the squad going into the next 5.

It's a philosophy not what actually happens. When We went at teams in the last 15 minutes of gamea under SAF the other team would still nearly always try to defend the draw so going for the win would not end up in a loss most of the time.

It served us well over the years. If we sat back and protected a draw against Byren after equalising we might not have been European Champions that season.

On the other side we now have a manager who protects a draw at half time by bringing on a defender and DCMF and yet we still end up losing the game.

 

[Insanity]

Louis van Gaal must reinvigorate Manchester United after FA Cup exit


On the lush fields of Manchester United's training ground, Angel Di Maria isn't discouraged from dribbling with a football. It's a concession, for other players are told that such individualism and spontaneity isn't the way the current team play. The overriding theme is to follow a strict philosophy that, if played correctly, will result in entertaining, dominant, winning, football.

United have so far failed to master the new system imposed by their new master, Louis van Gaal. There have been glimpses and even Monday's first half against Arsenal created moments of intense excitement among the Old Trafford crowd. For example, Di Maria's whipped cross to Wayne Rooney and the subsequent diving header, with which United's captain scored, were superb.

Yet the Argentine blotted his copy book with poor positioning for Arsenal's first goal and his second half sending off was stupid and unnecessary. Such inconsistencies have marked the individual contributions of many United players this season. The majority are playing nowhere near their full potential yet, so far, results have been sufficient to hit a top four target.

Van Gaal has imposed his significant personality on Old Trafford and such a figure was needed to fill a power vacuum. The Dutchman thrives on control and somebody needed to get control of the dressing room after decades of rule under Sir Alex Ferguson's management.

Van Gaal does rule over all in his sphere and the club intend to stick with him, even if he won't be winning a trophy in his first season as he did at in his debut campaigns at Ajax, Barcelona and Bayern Munich.

United's owners, the Glazer family, want a stable environment and note that even Ferguson needed four years to get things right, though the current manager inherited a vastly superior squad and club. He was allowed and encouraged to buy big, including Di Maria at 59.7 million pounds, but the major purchases have largely disappointed so far.

Monday saw the last realistic chance of that disappear with defeat to top four rivals Arsenal in the FA Cup sixth round. That the winner was scored by Mancunian -- and still a United fan -- Danny Welbeck was harder for fans to stomach, but the man who was sold by United last summer did what he's paid to do.


There's nothing wrong with that, nor with him celebrating his goal in front of 9000 travelling fans. He would have loved to have stayed at United, but the club he grew up with preferred fan-pleasing, sponsor-delighting franchise players.

One such, Radamel Falcao, a far costlier alternative to Welbeck, sat on the bench all night and such has been his disappointing season, there was barely a clamour for the Colombian to start. It's a shame, for he was one of the best strikers in football before his knee injury.

Van Gaal continues to make significant changes to United's first eleven as he seeks to find a better formula than the one which has seen his side underwhelm for most of the season.


On Monday, Ander Herrera, who was voted United's player of the month for February, was substituted at half-time while Juan Mata was an unused substitute. Both are exceptional, creative footballers but that crowd-pleasing trait is not actively encouraged by the man in charge.


The United boss has a clear idea of what he wants, even if imagination is stifled. You do it his way or you get dropped. Make too many diagonal runs rather than vertical ones, for example, and you'll be benched.

One surprise, however, is ill-discipline. United will be fined by the FA after receiving six yellow cards against Arsenal and Marouane Fellaini, who has had a decent enough season, seems to concede a free-kick with every second touch.

Di Maria, who saw red, still has some way to go to adapt to the nuances of English football. Fans don't like to see players go down so easily and referees certainly don't like their shirts to be tugged.

Meanwhile, teammates don't like it when, with them in space and shouting for the ball, you try a shot that looks as though it will clear the stand and hit the windows of your new apartment in Manchester's tallest building.

The freedom of expression of some of the world's most creative footballers is suffocated in a system set up not to lose, but the stats and data beloved and devoured by Van Gaal's team in numerous meetings at Carrington, plus executive vice-chairman Ed Woodward in London, show success.

In the aftermath of this defeat, with United fans smarting after being dumped out of the FA Cup at home by a team with an atrocious recent record at Old Trafford, targets are sought for blame. That's what happens when passion and emotion curse through United's many constituents.

Had they got through, the semifinal game at Wembley in April would have been against one of two beatable teams, Reading or Bradford City -- at least on possession, if not goals -- to set up a potential final against Liverpool. Not now. If Arsenal win the competition this season they'll move ahead of United's 11 FA Cups triumphs.

For the first time since 2006, United are out of both domestic cups and European competition by the start of March. On the bright side, just two years after that relatively poor year, they were European champions. It shows how quickly football can turn around and Van Gaal has the ingredients to work with, from stellar players to finance.

This isn't Southampton, Porto, Valencia or Atletico Madrid, where the fruits of youth systems and intelligent scouting, far more impressive than any seen at Old Trafford recently, are cherry-picked by bigger clubs at the end of the season, but the mood among fans and the confidence of players needs picking up off the floor.

Van Gaal has a crucial month ahead with games against Tottenham , Liverpool, a revitalised Aston Villa, Manchester City and Chelsea. When canvassed today, many fans showed little faith in their team still being in the top four at the end of that run but the mood can spin on a single moment, just as it did when Welbeck scored.

The United fans in attendance on Monday were singing their latest "Oh, what a night" terrace tune loudly. Their 1970s-inspired flags looked decent and so many away fans helped the atmosphere too.

It was a night alright, but not one for which United fans hoped.

http://www.espnfc.com/club/manchest...nvigorate-manchester-united-after-fa-cup-exit

Explains why the likes of Herrera, Mata, Rafael and Januzaj constantly find themselves on the bench.

 

[royboy16]

Alot of the complaints here are actually part of van Gaal's tactics. Risk averse and only 4 players (Di Maria, Young, Rooney, Fellaini) can take risks. The rest all follow orders and must keep possesion at all costs. Herrera can't be pinging balls left and right, because he's playing as a box-to-box midfielder. van Gaal wants his midfielders (with the exception of the number 10 - in this case Fellaini) to never lose the ball.

The first half against Arsenal might've been enjoyable, but there were countless moments which could've been deadly because van Gaal's teams aren't prepared to defend when Herrera is on the ball. If he (or any other than the 4 I mentioned) loses the ball, everyone is in the wrong position and we're extremely vulnerable for counters. That's why he changed it, not to annoy the fans but because if we carried on like that we were more likely to lose. He looks at the game differently: he looks from his gameplan POV. When his gameplan is performed well we'll see attacking football and not the slow dross we've seen mostly. All players must be on exact the same wavelength else van Gaal's tactics are suicide, especially in case of the other 7 players.

You can criticise him for his tactics, but the players are just trying to execute orders. If they don't, they're subbed off at halftime. Van Gaal will also never change his ways, he was hired for his playstyle and he's busy trying to implement it.

I think he should've done better personally and I'm a big fan of him. He bought players for a 352 formation because it worked in preseason. When 352 didn't work in the PL he had to change it and this left him with problems. With his own rules it's very difficult to then name a formation he's happy with. The sort of 433 we're seeing now isn't what he likes. Herrera next to Blind is something we'll never see next season because he wants a defensive BTB player at Herrera's spot (unless he improves massively). He's now stuck with an incredibly top-heavy squad, weak backline and no depth in defensive minded midfielders. This means he has to make offensive offers (Fellaini at #10) to cover for the defence. He's had to try Rooney, Fellaini and now Herrera in his box-to-box role because he wants a defensive player there (those are his own rules). That mistake at the start of the season, combined with his own rules made him chop-and-change so much in the starting 11. I can understand he couldn't buy all the players he wanted/needed but that mistake of buying for 352 has cost us alot this season.

I'm still fully behind the man, I'm optimistic we'll make top 4 and with some key transfers: winger, box-to-box midfielder and a centreback (mainly) we'll see drastic improvements. This is because he then doesn't have to make offensive sacrifices for our backline anymore. He can then play 433 and take the handbrake off.

Nice insight into what he's trying to do.

 

[jojojo]

On the lush fields of Manchester United's training ground, Angel Di Maria isn't discouraged from dribbling with a football. It's a concession, for other players are told that such individualism and spontaneity isn't the way the current team play. The overriding theme is to follow a strict philosophy that, if played correctly, will result in entertaining, dominant, winning, football.

I'm not sure how literally to take that quote. Does that ruling apply to Januzaj as well, and Young? Clearly we shouldn't expect Valencia and Shaw for example, to "beat their man", that's not their job - even on the training ground.

That's the thing with this whole LvG book of rules for the players, he's accountable for them.

 

[saivet]

Here to stay at least through next season, no matter what, says Ogden.

Was the club leaking briefs like this last season as well?

Edit: just skimmed through the article and I'm taking it with a pinch of salt.

 

[#07]

Louis van Gaal must reinvigorate Manchester United after FA Cup exit


On the lush fields of Manchester United's training ground, Angel Di Maria isn't discouraged from dribbling with a football. It's a concession, for other players are told that such individualism and spontaneity isn't the way the current team play. The overriding theme is to follow a strict philosophy that, if played correctly, will result in entertaining, dominant, winning, football.

United have so far failed to master the new system imposed by their new master, Louis van Gaal. There have been glimpses and even Monday's first half against Arsenal created moments of intense excitement among the Old Trafford crowd. For example, Di Maria's whipped cross to Wayne Rooney and the subsequent diving header, with which United's captain scored, were superb.

Yet the Argentine blotted his copy book with poor positioning for Arsenal's first goal and his second half sending off was stupid and unnecessary. Such inconsistencies have marked the individual contributions of many United players this season. The majority are playing nowhere near their full potential yet, so far, results have been sufficient to hit a top four target.

Van Gaal has imposed his significant personality on Old Trafford and such a figure was needed to fill a power vacuum. The Dutchman thrives on control and somebody needed to get control of the dressing room after decades of rule under Sir Alex Ferguson's management.

Van Gaal does rule over all in his sphere and the club intend to stick with him, even if he won't be winning a trophy in his first season as he did at in his debut campaigns at Ajax, Barcelona and Bayern Munich.

United's owners, the Glazer family, want a stable environment and note that even Ferguson needed four years to get things right, though the current manager inherited a vastly superior squad and club. He was allowed and encouraged to buy big, including Di Maria at 59.7 million pounds, but the major purchases have largely disappointed so far.

Monday saw the last realistic chance of that disappear with defeat to top four rivals Arsenal in the FA Cup sixth round. That the winner was scored by Mancunian -- and still a United fan -- Danny Welbeck was harder for fans to stomach, but the man who was sold by United last summer did what he's paid to do.


There's nothing wrong with that, nor with him celebrating his goal in front of 9000 travelling fans. He would have loved to have stayed at United, but the club he grew up with preferred fan-pleasing, sponsor-delighting franchise players.

One such, Radamel Falcao, a far costlier alternative to Welbeck, sat on the bench all night and such has been his disappointing season, there was barely a clamour for the Colombian to start. It's a shame, for he was one of the best strikers in football before his knee injury.

Van Gaal continues to make significant changes to United's first eleven as he seeks to find a better formula than the one which has seen his side underwhelm for most of the season.


On Monday, Ander Herrera, who was voted United's player of the month for February, was substituted at half-time while Juan Mata was an unused substitute. Both are exceptional, creative footballers but that crowd-pleasing trait is not actively encouraged by the man in charge.


The United boss has a clear idea of what he wants, even if imagination is stifled. You do it his way or you get dropped. Make too many diagonal runs rather than vertical ones, for example, and you'll be benched.

One surprise, however, is ill-discipline. United will be fined by the FA after receiving six yellow cards against Arsenal and Marouane Fellaini, who has had a decent enough season, seems to concede a free-kick with every second touch.

Di Maria, who saw red, still has some way to go to adapt to the nuances of English football. Fans don't like to see players go down so easily and referees certainly don't like their shirts to be tugged.

Meanwhile, teammates don't like it when, with them in space and shouting for the ball, you try a shot that looks as though it will clear the stand and hit the windows of your new apartment in Manchester's tallest building.

The freedom of expression of some of the world's most creative footballers is suffocated in a system set up not to lose, but the stats and data beloved and devoured by Van Gaal's team in numerous meetings at Carrington, plus executive vice-chairman Ed Woodward in London, show success.

In the aftermath of this defeat, with United fans smarting after being dumped out of the FA Cup at home by a team with an atrocious recent record at Old Trafford, targets are sought for blame. That's what happens when passion and emotion curse through United's many constituents.

Had they got through, the semifinal game at Wembley in April would have been against one of two beatable teams, Reading or Bradford City -- at least on possession, if not goals -- to set up a potential final against Liverpool. Not now. If Arsenal win the competition this season they'll move ahead of United's 11 FA Cups triumphs.

For the first time since 2006, United are out of both domestic cups and European competition by the start of March. On the bright side, just two years after that relatively poor year, they were European champions. It shows how quickly football can turn around and Van Gaal has the ingredients to work with, from stellar players to finance.

This isn't Southampton, Porto, Valencia or Atletico Madrid, where the fruits of youth systems and intelligent scouting, far more impressive than any seen at Old Trafford recently, are cherry-picked by bigger clubs at the end of the season, but the mood among fans and the confidence of players needs picking up off the floor.

Van Gaal has a crucial month ahead with games against Tottenham , Liverpool, a revitalised Aston Villa, Manchester City and Chelsea. When canvassed today, many fans showed little faith in their team still being in the top four at the end of that run but the mood can spin on a single moment, just as it did when Welbeck scored.

The United fans in attendance on Monday were singing their latest "Oh, what a night" terrace tune loudly. Their 1970s-inspired flags looked decent and so many away fans helped the atmosphere too.

It was a night alright, but not one for which United fans hoped.

http://www.espnfc.com/club/manchest...nvigorate-manchester-united-after-fa-cup-exit

Explains why the likes of Herrera, Mata, Rafael and Januzaj constantly find themselves on the bench.

Saw this yesterday and just couldn't believe it. Van Gaal's 'philosophy' seems to be strangling the life out of our creative players. Don't run with the ball, don't take risks, stick to your position. You can see the players hesitating when they get the ball, trying to restrain themselves rather than express themselves. No wonder our football is so one paced and one dimensional.

 

[ZDwyr]

Was the club leaking briefs like this last season as well?

Edit: just skimmed through the article and I'm taking it with a pinch of salt.

They were. I think Ogden was regarded as one of the journos that Moyes was close too actually. I think there would be some truth to it. However if we end up losing our next 6 games or whatever then he could very well be sacked, obviously.

 

[Cassidy]

Alot of the complaints here are actually part of van Gaal's tactics. Risk averse and only 4 players (Di Maria, Young, Rooney, Fellaini) can take risks. The rest all follow orders and must keep possesion at all costs. Herrera can't be pinging balls left and right, because he's playing as a box-to-box midfielder. van Gaal wants his midfielders (with the exception of the number 10 - in this case Fellaini) to never lose the ball.

The first half against Arsenal might've been enjoyable, but there were countless moments which could've been deadly because van Gaal's teams aren't prepared to defend when Herrera is on the ball. If he (or any other than the 4 I mentioned) loses the ball, everyone is in the wrong position and we're extremely vulnerable for counters. That's why he changed it, not to annoy the fans but because if we carried on like that we were more likely to lose. He looks at the game differently: he looks from his gameplan POV. When his gameplan is performed well we'll see attacking football and not the slow dross we've seen mostly. All players must be on exact the same wavelength else van Gaal's tactics are suicide, especially in case of the other 7 players.

You can criticise him for his tactics, but the players are just trying to execute orders. If they don't, they're subbed off at halftime. Van Gaal will also never change his ways, he was hired for his playstyle and he's busy trying to implement it.

I think he should've done better personally and I'm a big fan of him. He bought players for a 352 formation because it worked in preseason. When 352 didn't work in the PL he had to change it and this left him with problems. With his own rules it's very difficult to then name a formation he's happy with. The sort of 433 we're seeing now isn't what he likes. Herrera next to Blind is something we'll never see next season because he wants a defensive BTB player at Herrera's spot (unless he improves massively). He's now stuck with an incredibly top-heavy squad, weak backline and no depth in defensive minded midfielders. This means he has to make offensive offers (Fellaini at #10) to cover for the defence. He's had to try Rooney, Fellaini and now Herrera in his box-to-box role because he wants a defensive player there (those are his own rules). That mistake at the start of the season, combined with his own rules made him chop-and-change so much in the starting 11. I can understand he couldn't buy all the players he wanted/needed but that mistake of buying for 352 has cost us alot this season.

I'm still fully behind the man, I'm optimistic we'll make top 4 and with some key transfers: winger, box-to-box midfielder and a centreback (mainly) we'll see drastic improvements. This is because he then doesn't have to make offensive sacrifices for our backline anymore. He can then play 433 and take the handbrake off.

Ok, I understand all of that, however did Herrera give the ball away vs Arsenal.... he seemsed to be following the game plan to me, playing simple risk free passes and keeping the ball moving

 

[Coxy]

Saw this yesterday and just couldn't believe it. Van Gaal's 'philosophy' seems to be strangling the life out of our creative players. Don't run with the ball, don't take risks, stick to your position. You can see the players hesitating when they get the ball, trying to restrain themselves rather than express themselves. No wonder our football is so one paced and one dimensional.

Spot on - I said this yesterday: "wouldn't you look defeated too if you had to play under such stifling and boring tactics? You have good players - but you're not playing them properly. Any team with Mata, Rooney, Di Maria, Herrera etc should be playing flowing football - instead you play Fellaini in the ACM role..."

Seriously you have so many fantastic creative players, but they can't play to their strengths. You've been lucky in so many games (or rather De gea has saved you!) where you could have lost. From an outsider watching the odd Utd games - you really need to change your manager, he is just stifling your players.

 

[jojojo]

Ok, I understand all of that, however did Herrera give the ball away vs Arsenal.... he seemsed to be following the game plan to me, playing simple risk free passes and keeping the ball moving

In raw numbers, I don't think so. I haven't seen proper match stats, but I think Blind gave the ball away more. But, according to a couple of posters in the Herrera thread, Ander might have had some job that he failed to do on Cazorla, so maybe there was some positional issue.

Depressing though - I really enjoyed that first half.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Ok, I understand all of that, however did Herrera give the ball away vs Arsenal.... he seemsed to be following the game plan to me, playing simple risk free passes and keeping the ball moving

We needs the stats guys who can tell us his pass completion for the game. I never ever seem to be able to find them for cup games.

 

[Cassidy]

We needs the stats guys who can tell us his pass completion for the game. I never ever seem to be able to find them for cup games.

Don't need stats to see that he wasn't being risky with the ball in that game. Its probably the Carzola thing as has been mentioned. Still hooked at half time? Harsh and ultimately was a huge mistake.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

In raw numbers, I don't think so. I haven't seen proper match stats, but I think Blind gave the ball away more. But, according to a couple of posters in the Herrera thread, Ander might have had some job that he failed to do on Cazorla, so maybe there was some positional issue.

Depressing though - I really enjoyed that first half.

It is depressing. I want our players to express themselves, I want to enjoy watching them. It is sad that it isn't happening. That is what is worrying me about the summer. If he buys players who will let the likes of Herrera play, great. If it is more of results is all that matter, so we get boring, no personality players to play more boring football, then not great.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Don't need stats to see that he wasn't being risky with the ball in that game. Its probably the Carzola thing as has been mentioned. Still hooked at half time? Harsh and ultimately was a huge mistake.

It was, if they had won he could have justified it, but it just left us with no midfield, meaning no attacking threat, so left Arsenal left to put a bad defence under even more pressure.

 

[Badunk]

He's becoming our Rafa, isn't he?

 

[Jed I. Knight]

He's becoming our Rafa, isn't he?

If it means him taking us to a Champions League title, I'll take it in a heart beat.

 

[Flying_Heckfish]

Fed up

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Fed up

Anybody who know their Harry Potter, he reminds me a bit of this guy, a bit of a bluffer.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

He's becoming our Rafa, isn't he?

If it means him taking us to a Champions League title, I'll take it in a heart beat.

I was going to ask how he is like our Rafa considering all in all Benitez did a great job in comparison

 

[Flying_Heckfish]

I could deal with the boring football (and was doing) while we were getting results and making 'progress'.

We're starting to make mistakes now when we should be further along IMO. And we're still boring which adds insult to injury.

I hope he can turn it around, I just can't work him out.

 

[justboy68]

He's becoming our Rafa, isn't he?

As much as we take the piss out of Rafa he was the best manager they had for years and years. Won a Champions League and brought them very close to winning a title which, thank god, Fergie was around to just about stop.

As for LVG I'd send him on his way if we could somehow secure Guardiola, Simeone or Klopp. If he failed to get top 4 I'd also take Ancelotti if available. Other than that give him more time to hopefully improve things until the right candidate becomes available.

 

[Flying_Heckfish]

If we don't get top four and Ancelotti is sacked, it's a no brainer IMO

 

[Pexbo]

If we don't get top four and Ancelotti is sacked, it's a no brainer IMO

Sigh. And then we start again. A summer to see who he likes. A season to see who he doesn't like. Rinse repeat.

 

[Flying_Heckfish]

That's not Ancelottis MO, really. He has been at Milan, Chelsea, PSG and Madrid recently. How many times has he picked his players? He gets on with it.

He's not a long term plan, we missed that opportunity.

With his recent record though, he will probably end up at City.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

That's not Ancelottis MO, really. He has been at Milan, Chelsea, PSG and Madrid recently. How many times has he picked his players? He gets on with it.

He's not a long term plan, we missed that opportunity.

With his recent record though, he will probably end up at City.

He is probably someone who would work with a DOF to be fair.

 

[Minimalist]

Sigh. And then we start again. A summer to see who he likes. A season to see who he doesn't like. Rinse repeat.

This.

Van Gaal really isn't the big problem here. This isn't a Moyes scenario at all despite the comparisons. We have some really, really shit players in certain positions. However the squad appear to be fully behind the man and that says something.

 

[Flying_Heckfish]

This.

Van Gaal really isn't the big problem here. This isn't a Moyes scenario at all despite the comparisons. We have some really, really shit players in certain positions. However the squad appear to be fully behind the man and that says something.

I get that and I can see that is difficult for players to fit LvG's system - Valencia's pass-back is not something he'd have done under SAF, and I believe LvG has given him that confidence to try it, to believe in his own technical ability. It's misplaced though as you say because some of them aren't up to it.

The second season can be a real opportunity for this team. If he 'gets the players he wants' as everyone keeps saying, I'd agree, next season is where we can kick on. But the need for CL football is paramount in this, it just doesn't work if we are scrapping for second-rate players. We end up with more of the same. By that metric, he should go, because just like Moyes ultimately that would have been his minimum target.

And in that situation you need someone who can hit the ground running with what he is given, which would be true of Ancelotti. IMO of course.

 

[VP]

Some laughable attempts to explain the shambles we're in. Let's be honest, LVG's a charlatan and the only thing saving him getting the Moyes treatment on here is his reputation. Moyes was the embodiment of the peter principle, a man promoted to a level above his competence, but LVG is far more dangerous: he's arrogant and incompetent. Clueless team selections, questionable signings and then the audacity to pass this all part of a grandiose philosophy.

 

[Minimalist]

Some laughable attempts to explain the shambles we're in. Let's be honest, LVG's a charlatan and the only thing saving him getting the Moyes treatment on here is his reputation. Moyes was the embodiment of the peter principle, a man promoted to a level above his competence, but LVG is far more dangerous: he's arrogant and incompetent. Clueless team selections, questionable signings and then the audacity to pass this all part of a grandiose philosophy.

Team selections? Meh, most on here don't have a clue about that and every week it's proven.

Signings? Best summer of signings in years. Total nonsense to suggest otherwise.

His philosophy? Might sound funny when he constantly reminds us of it, but it does exist and has done at his previous clubs (just ask their supporters).

 

[Flying_Heckfish]

He's an idealist and he will live or die by it, that much is certainly true!

The slow-ish tempo at first I thought was the players not being used to quick, technical football. I figured LvG's coaching would allow them to be more confident and expressive, but it's March and we only change tempo in fits and starts. I'm not sure now if it's the players or the coaching, or a bit of both. But he is having problems translating his philosophy onto the pitch, what we are seeing is not the final product.

What we need at the moment is pragmatism - we've seen some as he plays Fellaini up front with Rooney, clearly not his true style but a sign he's willing to try things in order to get the most out of the team. That's good to see (relatively!) and I thought it wouldn't happen with LvG's stubbornness.

We will get to see what he is capable of next season IF he secures top four

 

[Adebesi]

4. we are fast become a laughing stock and being in Europe at least give players and fans some dignity

This made me laugh. We need our dignity back.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

This made me laugh. We need our dignity back.

I haven't had any dignity for a while to be fair. Nothing to do with United though.

 

[gerdm07]

Our crap defence will likely cost us top 4.

I think our crap style of play is going to cost us 4th. Yes the defense is one of the problems but a good manager should be able to fix that to some extent and still play good football. A good manager also utilizes his talent effectively. A case in point is DM and janacuy. These are two talented wingers and lvg decides we shouldn't play with wingers for most of the season.

 

[NoPace]

That's not Ancelottis MO, really. He has been at Milan, Chelsea, PSG and Madrid recently. How many times has he picked his players? He gets on with it.

He's not a long term plan, we missed that opportunity.

With his recent record though, he will probably end up at City.

That's the appeal, for me. He might look at our team, pick out what to me are the 7 guys we should be building with: Rooney, Mata, Di Maria, Herrera, Shaw, Rafael and De Gea and plug in the final 4 starting spots based on who impresses him at the club and where nobody does, tell the club he needs a big signing there.

So, we probably have a summer like this:
-Another attacker of some kind to form a front 4 with Rooney, Mata and Di Maria.
-A 4th CM to go with Herrera, Blind, Carrick
-A Center back (with Rojo, Smalling or Jones impressing him enough to be the partner)
-A Fullback to compete with and backup Shaw and Rafael

Maybe we'd disagree over what attacker we'd sign or whatever, but basically we'd be a normal, coherent side again. And with Ancelotti having coached PSG and Madrid lately maybe we end up signing an ex-player or two of his who would help us and might be available with his spot under threat like Verrati (if they sign Pogba), Bale, Varane, Coentrao, Lucas Moura, Marquinhos or Jese.

 

[royboy16]

I hope he's given a chance to buy in the summer,I think we should take a gamble on that rather than hitting the reset button and starting again.

 

[Mciahel Goodman]

I hope he's given a chance to buy in the summer,I think we should take a gamble on that rather than hitting the reset button and starting again.

I agree. Even if we come 5th.