United under LvG: verdict so far!

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When I was watching the match against Arsenal, I was very annoyed with how we were frequently playing long balls forward to Fellaini in the second half and rarely building up attacks through the middle. I'm not going to consider Herrera's substitution in this discussion; instead, I will focus on his recent reliance on Fellaini high up the pitch.

Before, when we mostly played with 3 at the back, we played with 1 defensive midfielder and 2 box-to-box midfielders. Even then, our box-to-box midfielders weren't really taking risks and trying to create chances through the middle. Instead, they would move the ball forward and out to the wing backs to put crosses into the box, have one of our defenders run up with the ball and then play it out wide, or play a long ball forward as our midfielders would push up too far to receive a pass. Given that we relied on our wingers to create chances, our forwards needed to be good enough in the box to score goals. Whilst Falcao did score a few headers this season, he's mainly been poor in the box. Likewise with van Persie. For this reason, he plays Fellaini up ahead as he's been better in the box than those two. With Fellaini on the pitch, we are more threatening out wide, thus allowing us to stretch the opposition and create openings in the middle that, for some reason, we cannot exploit because our central midfielders aren't allowed to take risks! I believe that, if van Persie and Falcao weren't so poor going forward, then we wouldn't have needed Fellaini higher up the pitch.

The long balls we've often played when we were behind seems to be more down to the players looking for an easy way out. Yes, it's our Plan B when we can't really build up, but our players seem to pursue that option too often, particularly when we fall behind. I'm sure that he sees this happen as well, so instead of having 2 up front all of the time, why doesn't he instruct Rooney to drop deeper when Fellaini pushes up? That can offer us more balance, and our midfielders will have a passing option in the middle. We've been very reliant on Herrera moving the ball forward in the past few matches as Fellaini wouldn't do this, and when he left the pitch against Arsenal, van Gaal didn't adjust us properly. If he wants to play 4 defensive players in the team with Fellaini and Rooney up front, why doesn't he allow the wingers to cut in and receive the ball in the "hole"? Our full backs can push up and provide the width, and our wingers can receive the ball in space and add an extra level of variety in our game. If our wingers are to stay out wide and stretch the opposition, we need someone in the middle to move the ball forward, whether that's a proper #10 or a central midfielder like Herrera. I cannot imagine van Gaal preventing us from having an option through the middle when building up attacks.
 
Our crap defence will likely cost us top 4.
TBH, if not for the brilliance of DDG, we would have been out of top 4 for a long time, and that keeping top 7 might be our main goal... It is a sad state of affairs and I don't blame players because the manager is the one who is to fix things, and get the best out of his players.
 
Another name has emerged tonight, if Van Gaal doesn't sort it out. Laurent Blanc.

Very impressed by PSG tonight especially playing 90 minutes with 10 men.
 
Another name has emerged tonight, if Van Gaal doesn't sort it out. Laurent Blanc.

Very impressed by PSG tonight especially playing 90 minutes with 10 men.

They are struggling in Ligue 1 though, right? Well not struggling but probably not doing as well as expected. Agree the Chelsea result was impressive though.
 
They are struggling in Ligue 1 though, right? Well not struggling but probably not doing as well as expected. Agree the Chelsea result was impressive though.

Point off first. They had a poor start and drew far too many games.

But they been good since the winter break.
 
The only way we are going to spend another £150million in the summer is if we get top 4.

We won't finish in the top 4, not a chance. You would expect a clause to finish top 4 or we have the option to part ways. The only way we would not exercise that option is if we have a good run in, with encouraging displays and very narrowly miss out on top 4 and the players and hierarchy see good work going on behind the scenes, other than that he should be sacked. There was a lot of money spent, he has got feck all out of the new players and not played to the strengths of the attacking players we have at our disposal, the anticipated attacking mentality has been shelved with conservatism, we have had no European football to contend with, all our focus could go on league games, this should be an advantage and yet here we are. He is likely one defeat away from dropping out of the top 4 in the run in, after that I think the heads will drop completely and we will lose a few more. Love to be proven wrong, but I don't see it. He should be producing much better with the talent at his disposal.
 
We won't finish in the top 4, not a chance. You would expect a clause to finish top 4 or we have the option to part ways. The only way we would not exercise that option is if we have a good run in, with encouraging displays and very narrowly miss out on top 4 and the players and hierarchy see good work going on behind the scenes, other than that he should be sacked. There was a lot of money spent, he has got feck all out of the new players and not played to the strengths of the attacking players we have at our disposal, the anticipated attacking mentality has been shelved with conservatism, we have had no European football to contend with, all our focus could go on league games, this should be an advantage and yet here we are. He is likely one defeat away from dropping out of the top 4 in the run in, after that I think the heads will drop completely and we will lose a few more. Love to be proven wrong, but I don't see it. He should be producing much better with the talent at his disposal.

That's a terrible reason to keep him imo. We only have 10 games left as well, any improvements made now could easily be down to a number of factors. People said Van Gaals methods will take 3 months, now they are saying we will see his methods work next season lol.

Don't get wrong, LVG is a excellent manager, but he just isn't right for this club, and next season no matter who we buy in the summer will be exactly the same.

Every season the standards we set get lower and lower, and soon we will fall into mediocrity, a line has to be drawn somewhere, and this season simply hasn't been good enough.

I feel like we will spend more if we do not get the CL than we will if we do. Based on desperation.

If we end up spending £300million or so then we seriously might as well have kept Moyes. That's why I'm confident LVG will be sacked in May if we're not in the CL, the board pretty much got him so he could bring the club right back up. If he can't do that then that's the point? We should just give a blank cheque to a young manager.
 
That's a terrible reason to keep him imo. We only have 10 games left as well, any improvements made now could easily be down to a number of factors. People said Van Gaals methods will take 3 months, now they are saying we will see his methods work next season lol.

What improvements do you think you see at the club that would justify keeping him in a job if he finishes outside the top 4? Also, it was LVG himself who said it would take 3 months for the players to get his methods, not "people", that was the start of many contradictions from him.
 

I'd keep him if he got a top 3 finish, stop playing like 11 individuals, play at a higher tempo for longer durations of games and he needs to start getting the best out of the players. I highly doubt any of that is going to happen though, because if it was it would have happened already.
 
Basically I think he should have to present his plan to Woodward or whoever, including summer transfers, and it should have to make sense and include the following:

-Rooney as a 9
-Fellaini not a starter
-Herrera and Rafael playing or seriously competing to play, unless they've committed a truly heinous crime
-We buy a winger of some kind
-De Gea is not sold for peanuts

Then he can stay!
 
I'd keep him if he got a top 3 finish, stop playing like 11 individuals, play at a higher tempo for longer durations of games and he needs to start getting the best out of the players. I highly doubt any of that is going to happen though, because if it was it would have happened already.

I agree, keep him if he finished top 3, but we are NOT playing to individual strengths, he is selecting teams based on some "team philosophy" rather than saying we have Di Maria, Falcao, Rooney, RVP, Januzaj etc, deal with it and terrorising teams with an attacking mentality. I don't know why he signed players like Di Maria and Falcao if he is not going to play to their strengths. We won't finish in the top 4, the board have a dcision to make, most of our bigger commercial deals are tied into that and that will add pressure, particularly after having accomodated last season, personally I think he is likely to be sacked, he is contradicting hmself on many commitments he made to the board and fans.
 
That's a terrible reason to keep him imo. We only have 10 games left as well, any improvements made now could easily be down to a number of factors. People said Van Gaals methods will take 3 months, now they are saying we will see his methods work next season lol.

Don't get wrong, LVG is a excellent manager, but he just isn't right for this club, and next season no matter who we buy in the summer will be exactly the same.

Every season the standards we set get lower and lower, and soon we will fall into mediocrity, a line has to be drawn somewhere, and this season simply hasn't been good enough.

If we end up spending £300million or so then we seriously might as well have kept Moyes. That's why I'm confident LVG will be sacked in May if we're not in the CL, the board pretty much got him so he could bring the club right back up. If he can't do that then that's the point? We should just give a blank cheque to a young manager.

Why isn't he the right manager for us and who would be?

I think it's over the top to claim that our standards are falling when we're doing better than last year and we're discussing wether we'll make top 4 or not while last year at tjis point we were discussing wether we should just stay at 7th to avoid having to comoete in the EL. That's a pretty mark rise in standards if you ask me, and yhe season before that we won the league.

Obviously we won't be spending 300 million in the transferwindow, no club can do that and even if we could we don't need to. The amount of money We spent in the summer is a common stick to beat LvG with but the competition i.e Arsenal and Liverpool spent 93 million and 113 million respectively on top of squads that finished 4th an 2nd last year. LvG also had to compete with managers who have spent the majority of their active careers managing in the PL and have had more time to and develop their teams.

IMO many posters on here have unreasonable expectations on what we LvG should be able to accomplish in one season and seem to think that we should be doing better by some godgiven right rather than by logic.
 
Next 2 game are massive,
Win and draw or win and win will take total U-turn in this thread,
If we loose any, than their will be huge Met-down here.
 
Don't get wrong, LVG is a excellent manager, but he just isn't right for this club, and next season no matter who we buy in the summer will be exactly the same.
That's worrying, it's hard to think of a manager who is better equipped to rebuild United into a potentially CL and PL winning club by playing 21st century football. If he's not the right man for the club, maybe something with the club is wrong and ambitions like that should be abandoned.
 
It is funny how many people just decide that LVG isn't right for the club. Wonder how many people felt the same way when SAF did not win anything for the first few years.
 
Must admit, I didn't realise LVG's philosophy was to play like David Moyes's Everton?
 
If Van Gaal gets the boot my faith in United a club will be at an all time low. To be fair it was already waning under the shit Ferguson was cooking up in his final couple of seasons but this (after the Moyes farce) will be just taking the piss.

LVG is a top coach. End of story.
 
If Van Gaal gets the boot my faith in United a club will be at an all time low. To be fair it was already waning under the shit Ferguson was cooking up in his final couple of seasons but this (after the Moyes farce) will be just taking the piss.

LVG is a top coach. End of story.


Again I must ask to people who say this, What has he shown as a 'top coach' while being at this club?

What we has won in the past is exactly that, the past. He has got benefit of the doubt up until now because of his previous reputation but now he is at the stage in which he must be judged on what he has done here, which is very little.
 
If Van Gaal gets the boot my faith in United a club will be at an all time low. To be fair it was already waning under the shit Ferguson was cooking up in his final couple of seasons but this (after the Moyes farce) will be just taking the piss.

LVG is a top coach. End of story.
TBF, there's no indications of that happening...yet. By this time last season, there were definite murmurings that Moyes would be booted if he fails to get top4.
 
Although I'm not entirely happy with LVG or how this season panned out, I also realise how important it is that we get some stability going under a manger that's proven he's capable of running a big club, than someone like Moyes. I don't want him sacked if we miss out on top 4.
 
Again I must ask to people who say this, What has he shown as a 'top coach' while being at this club?

What we has won in the past is exactly that, the past. He has got benefit of the doubt up until now because of his previous reputation but now he is at the stage in which he must be judged on what he has done here, which is very little.

Whoever we bring in will have done very little "here"........unless we bring back SAF. He's been here less than a year. I suggest no manager could be doing any better than 4th regardless of who we brought in.
 
Again I must ask to people who say this, What has he shown as a 'top coach' while being at this club?

What we has won in the past is exactly that, the past. He has got benefit of the doubt up until now because of his previous reputation but now he is at the stage in which he must be judged on what he has done here, which is very little.

That despite being at a new club, with new players to work with, with new transfers coming in, he has (in my opinion) settled us a bit better than I ever expected. Those who were expecting gung-ho football, winning match after match under him are delusional and have quite rightly been brought back to reality. Van Gaal is our big reality check. This is how our football realistically had to be played this season if we wanted to move up the table. Free-flowing football with the likes of Phil Jones and Chris Smalling at centre back is just asking for a hiding and he's only too aware of that.

What has impressed me is the fight and the competitiveness in the big games that was sorely lacking last season and it's something that a lot of people on here take for granted. Especially they take it for granted with how shite our defence is when approaching the likes of Liverpool, Chelsea, City etc. Even our last match against Arsenal we looked (for me) much the better side and were generally unlucky to lose that.
Teams should be scoring bucket-loads against us at times and yet the fact Van Gaal is wary against this (and sets us up accordingly to negate this) only get derided by the clueless on here.

He knows what he's doing. That's why he's not panicking. He knows he needs better players to achieve the goals he personally has himself (nevermind the club). You think Van Gaal doesn't care? This is his last job and he's not got his slippers on yet.

He can't win. Not on this forum. This forum based on percentages would have Ryan fecking Giggs as our manager, just because he'd go back to our beloved 4-4-2 with wingers. The United way. The United bollocks.
 
That despite being at a new club, with new players to work with, with new transfers coming in, he has (in my opinion) settled us a bit better than I ever expected. Those who were expecting gung-ho football, winning match after match under him are delusional and have quite rightly been brought back to reality. Van Gaal is our big reality check. This is how our football realistically had to be played this season if we wanted to move up the table. Free-flowing football with the likes of Phil Jones and Chris Smalling at centre back is just asking for a hiding and he's only too aware of that.

What has impressed me is the fight and the competitiveness in the big games that was sorely lacking last season and it's something that a lot of people on here take for granted. Especially they take it for granted with how shite our defence is when approaching the likes of Liverpool, Chelsea, City etc. Even our last match against Arsenal we looked (for me) much the better side and were generally unlucky to lose that.
Teams should be scoring bucket-loads against us at times and yet the fact Van Gaal is wary against this (and sets us up accordingly to negate this) only get derided by the clueless on here.

He knows what he's doing. That's why he's not panicking. He knows he needs better players to achieve the goals he personally has himself (nevermind the club). You think Van Gaal doesn't care? This is his last job and he's not got his slippers on yet.

He can't win. Not on this forum. This forum based on percentages would have Ryan fecking Giggs as our manager, just because he'd go back to our beloved 4-4-2 with wingers. The United way. The United bollocks.

The thing is, he has had 2 transfer windows to sort out his defence, even choosing not to buy in January, so he is obviously happy to go with 'Jones and Smalling' in his defence.
If they were as bad as your making it seem he would of addressed that situation right away last Summer.

Yes I would agree that we have performed better against the bigger teams but Monday night showed that might not be the case for the full season. You make it sound like we are a Stoke type team that should have no realistic chance to win so have to just stifle these teams.

His man management, ever changing tactics and substitutions are showing that perhaps he doesn't know what he is doing, He stumbled into 4th place and since then we have gotten worse. Remember he has spent £150million on players aswell, Can't just blame the fact he 'needs new players' for his failure.

Of course if we win these upcoming games and get into 4th alot of opinions will may alter (mine included), But as of right now he has been a massive disappointment.
 
What are the pros of keeping LVG if we fail to get into the Champions league?

Continuity I suppose, he'll have the entire summer to work out his own team

There also may not be the right manager available as well.
 
What are the pros of keeping LVG if we fail to get into the Champions league?

We don't have to rejig our coaching staff again.

The players are, or should be somewhat used to him and his methods.

A vastly superior manager may not be available.
 
We don't have to rejig our coaching staff again.

The players are, or should be somewhat used to him and his methods.

A vastly superior manager may not be available.

Do they outweigh the cons? should we keep a manager that failed to meet his only season objective in a season where our rivals struggled?(this comment is based on us not reaching the top 4) + no European commitments and he basically threw the cup games away
 
The players seem to like him and his training methods, so another summer to get the rest of the players he wants to see what happens.
 
I think we need better defenders.. a midfielder, better winger or hope Januzaj comes along and a striker this summer ..
If you look at Arsenals chances last game.. until the goal. . all of it came from individual errors ..First Smalling cannot control a long ball, then Valencia's error..
Also one more thing I noticed was that our defenders are not able to pass the ball forwards..which has been the story of the season.. we need to find a way to move the ball up. If Blind is covered.. not hoof..
 
Do they outweigh the cons? should we keep a manager that failed to meet his only season objective in a season where our rivals struggled?(this comment is based on us not reaching the top 4) + no European commitments and he basically threw the cup games away

I don't think so. If it's been a whole season with no clear direction on the pitch then I wouldn't be so confident it will change anytime soon.
 
We can't change a manager if there isn't someone to replace him with. Jose might be or if Real get rid, but not sure I would want Jose and his dire football, seems funny saying that. Carlo has a squad but seems to overplay people, also he seems to have one good season e.g. Chelsea then it goes a bit wrong. We need long term success.
 
We can't change a manager if there isn't someone to replace him with. Jose might be or if Real get rid, but not sure I would want Jose and his dire football, seems funny saying that. Carlo has a squad but seems to overplay people, also he seems to have one good season e.g. Chelsea then it goes a bit wrong. We need long term success.

I don't see Jose being available at all, especially since he has the league wrapped up pretty much.
 
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