We do but what successful team (current) actually keeps a coach for more than 4 seasons these days
United under LvG: verdict so far!
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We do but what successful team (current) actually keeps a coach for more than 4 seasons these days
I think Van Gaal is doing the right thing with this team.
which is?
Yeah because long balls to Fellaini is 21st century football, good one man. Also I think you're forgetting the pointless passing as well, apparently that tires the opposition out so we can create chances, but in reality the opposition just camp in their box while we complete 100 pointless passes and cross the ball in the box in the end anyway.
Said every Liverpool supporter.
I don't think the situation is as bad as people think. If you told people that we'd be in the top 4 at this point in the summer, most would take it. I also think we're playing much, much better than we did last season and you can clearly see there is a way we want to play.
Sadly I have to agree with you on this. Managers unable to let players play to their strengths and play as a team is not going to last very long. Honestly, if the board and the fans are going to give him more time, it might mean just a long slow decline. Hope he would prove us wrong.
Really?
With his reputation and the high expectation at the beginning of the season, going top 4 should be the bare minimum. After all we are United. Real, Barca, Bayer... would not suddenly become an outsider once they changed their manager. Why would United fans be over the moon being top 4 if given it at the beginning the season? Challenging title isn't easy but being top three or four should have been the basis minimum. Last season was pathetic but it does not mean we should all of a sudden drop the standard to a large extent.
Come on, there are vast differences between us and them in how we've operated for many years. The state our squad was in after SAF retired we had the likes of Young, Valencia, Cleverley, Ando, Nani etc as regulars in the first team, they would never have had a role at any of those clubs. The standards were ridiculously low compared to the squads of other europeean super clubs.
I think there are some positive signs. I think that the arsenal game was quite a good game and we could have easily won it - what would have been the reaction? I am sure the media would have gone over the top like they do now in a negative way. I really hope we get into the top 4 and realistically it will get hard but its manageable. if we can do it i am sure that we can build from it and maybe even challenge for the title again next year. (i know that it sounds a bit rawkish)
Have you watched them recently?
It was quite a good first half, actually it's not the only more encouraging period in recent games, but a large reason why we were so poor second half was Van Gaal making 2 needless changes at the break, it's hardly the first time that he's disrupted us when we've been doing alright while he's often happy to let the game drift even if it's clearly not working. Even if we do make top 4, which I doubt we will, we'd need a miracle to challenge Chelsea next year as things stand. Their squad is still reasonably young and much stronger than ours, they'll have the confidence of almost certainly having won a title, they're likely to get it right in the transfer window and they've got a better manager.
Van Gaal is the right man whatever the outcome this season. I hope the club show some class this time around and back him to the hilt.
I know he'll roll his sleeves up in the summer and begin the rebuilding properly. Top manager!
I know he'll roll his sleeves up in the summer and begin the rebuilding properly. Top manager!
If we do not even consider replacing him, the chance of having someone available equals to zero. Once the word is out for a new manager, I am sure there will be suitable candidates. Afterall it is a lucrative position one which young old new experienced manager will want to line up to apply. The key word is "suitable" or "right" one. I don't believe for one minute theres no one else available. Besides, giving LvG the whole summer sounds to me somewhat dreading... as he would be talking about his "philosophy" again without much action. Sigh
We don't know do we? Last season before Moyes was sacked, no one player came out in defiance of him was there?! Once it was clear United is out of Europe, you don't know how players feel and react, whether they want another season under him (the certain player who would prefer him to stay would be Rooney of course)
Considering some of the suspicious tweets made by Rio and Chicharito (and possibly others), those were a clear sign of defiance IMHO. And that happened a hell lot before we played Bayern in the quarterfinals.
I'd be more inclined to agree if this wasn't the second manager doing this but it is just too much of a get out for the players imo.
There are too many players at this club who seem to have forgotten what this club is. I fell in love with united not because we won a lot but every game you watched they captured the spirit of the foundations laid by sir matt. Attack, play without fear, entertain the fans and never ever give up.
That's seems to have just vanished and j blame the players who have come to this club and are now simply playing for us like they don't owe us something.
I'm tired of the last two years of the constant rubbish interviews where the players regurgitate their understanding of this club its fans and history when they seem to forget it every time they cross the white line.
its simple to me, stop blaming the tactics, stop blaming systems, stop blaming philosophy and lets look at the simple truth that the majority of players playing for united are now so afraid of failure that they are no longer able to succeed.
This transfer window is so important not because of our obvious need to strengthen a side that is lacking quality but also to fix our dressing room and re-install some belief in our players.
I'm not a fan who believes united have to win everything. But i want to see us stop talking and start showing.
I'll back lvg as long as he's at this club, and i think he can do a lot given time to ensure the long term policy of this club.
No white text?
Does anyone have access to 'distance run' stats? Are we really as static as everyone thinks we are?
Verdict so far for me is Disappointing. Given his track record and his confidence I expected better.
Unusually optimistic from Scholes.
Could just as easily be a sign of Van Gaal keeping the players on a shorter leash as the players being happier. I certainly think Van Gaal has more control over the dressing room, like SAF did.
Being humble is one thing but such self deprecating attitude is annoying and not necessary. Lets not forget that Man United is one of the top most successful football club (the recent top 10 ranking, United is 4th after Real, Barca, Bayern... Chelsea is 10, Liverpool 8th). If anything, our league is the most competitive, true. But thats not the point. Although I don't rate Young, in LvG's eye, he's his star and under him, Young is probably one of the best players in the team. What do you have to say about that about the new manager? United is not City nor Chelsea and we were never one which has a team of 11 superstars. LvG can change that and he's given the means to do it. Look how his signings turn out? Don't trash our club, it's how a capable manager who can make things work that's the issue under discussion here. We have been successful in our own way, it is what manager who can fit in and be the right one that is the crux of matter.
The sudden "decline" last season was a shock to everyone and players in particular. Players must have been shocked already before Christmas yet it was not appropriate to show discontent openly. This season, most of the players are new and we were all used to being shocked... sadly. Even players were not happy, they wouldn't dare show it. That's my speculation. One thing for sure is that, they must be very unhappy when they lose to inferior teams and why the hell that happened they didn't have a clue (nor did the manager!). How would that help with their confidence!?
If they are not secretly unhappy, I would be very very shocked to be honest. These players have been very good before they joined, and those who were here longer were all capable of being champions again. How does it feel struggling to place top four and losing out on FA Cup like that? They were not even playing as a team, so there!
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I'd go further and say that if there was no dissatisfaction then I would be disappointed in them.
Yes, I've watched every single game.
Im all for the club giving LvG another season to actually implement improvements but i cant understand some of the head in the sand comments on here.
He's had plenty of troubles in his management career and they need to be recognised along with his failures this season.
He's also made many strange decisions along the way and treated many players badly.
All i see is a manager trying out tactics that have worked at previous clubs and hasn't been able to get them to work here. This "process" isn't us gradually improving its him trying to figure out tactics that work in the prem. Sadly that seems to be long ball to the big man
At the moment we look more like his Dutch team, unconvincing against teams that don't attack on mass and by and large boring.
He's had plenty of troubles in his management career and they need to be recognised along with his failures this season.
He's also made many strange decisions along the way and treated many players badly.
All i see is a manager trying out tactics that have worked at previous clubs and hasn't been able to get them to work here. This "process" isn't us gradually improving its him trying to figure out tactics that work in the prem. Sadly that seems to be long ball to the big man
At the moment we look more like his Dutch team, unconvincing against teams that don't attack on mass and by and large boring.
I'm sorry but I must admit that i'm having trouble comprehending the points you're trying to make.
The fact that we're one of the top most successful clubs in history has no relevance to our current situation, A.C Milan are fifth on that list just behind us and how are they faring currently?
Young has done well this year and i'm happy with that but I don't understand where you've got the idea that he's LvGs star. And if you are correct, that he is one of the best players in the team then what does that say about the general quality of this squad? He may have been given Resources but they aren't unlimited and there are only so many Changes that you can make to a squad in one summer transfer window. This summer he took over a squad that was drained of talent, falling behind its competition and as full of holes as a swiss cheese following the departures of Vidic, Ferdinand and Evra etc. And how can you claim that any of the transfers he's made apart from Falcao (who's only on loan) have been failures? Rojo, Blind and Shaw have done well when fit and Di Maria has done very well in patches although incosistantly and will most likely be able to perform more consistantly once he no longer has to be used tactically as compensation for deficiensies in other areas of the pitch.
I don't want us to work like City and Chelsea, there's a middle ground that clubs like Bayern for example have used to great effect, but years of neglect and bad transfer-deals (and arrogance?) have put us in a situation where we need to strengthen and drastically rebuild our squad. LvG can impossibly be blamed for that, that's for damn sure.
When have I ever trashed our club?? If it's not allowed to be critical of the club and how it is run then what's the point of having and participating in a forum? The fact that we're trying to find a "chosen one" also speaks to how difficult the situation we've created for the next manager is. If we were as well managed as we'd like then we wouldn't be this vulnerable to change.
whilst I have criticised LVG heavily, some blame must also be laid at the doors of Moyes, Woordward and even Gill and Ferguson, not to mention the owners.
Had they invested in the squad properly over the last 10 years, the status quo might be that United are still 1st or 2nd. Instead, players were brought in who werent quite top drawer.
Had they invested in the squad properly over the last 10 years, the status quo might be that United are still 1st or 2nd. Instead, players were brought in who werent quite top drawer.
I rest my case.
Seeing how you went to such an extent to defend the new manager ("LvG can impossibly be blamed..." REALLY? What planet are you from??) there's really no point to debate with you and we must agree to disagree. But if you don't want to let it go, then:
My questions to you are:
1. how long you will give the manager to make the team play like a team?
2. how long will you wait till you think LvG can get the best out of his players who can play with more confidence and conviction, and more urgency?
3. Well since it looks like you think LvG is the best man for United, how long do you think United will be challenging something again under him?
It also looks like you are full of discontent with Fergie... How bitter you felt and how sad you described the great man! Your use of nasty words and your bitter feeling towards Fergie like "years of neglect, bad transfer deals, arrogance... " as if you were describing one of the most incompetent managers around who had no skills no vision and no loyalty towards the club... Well, news for you, this same man was still bringing you glory year in year out till the day he retired and the same team he left behind was a champion winning by a big margin.
I would have this man managing us forever and not complain! But you have other ideas of course.
The last season had been a disaster, but to you, it's Fergie's fault. LvG inherited a team which had gone through a year of tumour, and he shipped out a few important players along with some key players who left voluntarily, but you know what, it's still Fergie's fault. LvG failed to gel a team he desperately attempted to inject his philosophy, but of course it's Fergie's fault...
Had LvG been about to turn this season's around, then of course it is LvG's brilliance despite Fergie's fault and arrogance and the many nasty behaviour, right?!
Time will tell how long your beloved LvG will last. I am not optimistic but I still hope he will improve. He's a man of a lot of egos so it might help him improve faster.
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If he doesn't get a champion league place, I think he's on shaky ground, but will probably stay on. If he finishes below fifth, I think he's gone. End of story.
First bolded part: "..for that" is a key part of that sentance which you conveniantly removed, how can you blame LvG for things that transpired before he even took the job
1. He's not been here for even a full season yet for fecks sake...And we're definitely playing like a team but some won't see it, but instead hang on to old perceptions 'because they're discontent with the situation.
2. I think he's already doing it, the only player clearly underperforming is Di maria. The rest are pretty much playing to their potential, problem is they're not good enough. Valencia, Young, and Fellaini are having the best periods of many years even under Fergie and Fellaini for Everton.
3. I'd expect him to be in the running for the title next year definitely top 3, but it may take longer to win the League again. You just don't walk by the likes of City and Chelsea, or Arsenal and Liverpool for that matter. Chelsea stood still for their first year since Mourinho returned, they finished 3rd the year before, we're actually moving up under LvG.
Second bolded part: You're actually pissing me off now, stop twisting my words and fabricating crap that I never actually said. Fergie wasn't perfect, no one is and I think you'll struggle to finds any fans on here who don't agree that Fergies deals in the market in latter years were shite (especially since Ronaldo left), that he didn't neglect our CM for years, letting our defense age and quality on the wings drop. Fergie was an amazing manager, perhaps the greatest of all time, which is why was able to remain successful even as his squad slowly deteriorised. I'd have Fergie manage us for eternity too but he's not a machine, he's a man and you're living in dreamland.
Last year was not Fergies fault although he had a hand in it, obviously not by design. Moyes fecked it all up well on his own and showed incompetence in all areas of his management from transfer-dealing to tactics, man-management etc. Who are these important, key players that he supposedly shipped out, Welbeck, Cleverley? Vidic was already gone and has been horrible for Inter, Rio left and has been warming the bench for QPR, the only one we might be missing is Evra but he's 33. It's logical to me that it would take time for a team to gel when it's been completely overhauled from players to personell and footballing philosophy but we're seeing more coherent performances already although not the results.
First bolded part: "..for that" is a key part of that sentance which you conveniantly removed, how can you blame LvG for things that transpired before he even took the job
Second bolded part: You're actually pissing me off now, stop twisting my words and fabricating crap that I never actually said. Fergie wasn't perfect, no one is and I think you'll struggle to finds any fans on here who don't agree that Fergies deals in the market in latter years were shite (especially since Ronaldo left), that he didn't neglect our CM for years, letting our defense age and quality on the wings drop. Fergie was an amazing manager, perhaps the greatest of all time, which is why was able to remain successful even as his squad slowly deteriorised. I'd have Fergie manage us for eternity too but he's not a machine, he's a man and you're living in dreamland.
Fergie never neglected the CB position. Jones, Smalling were both bought and were supposed to be the next generation of CBs. So far, they haven't worked out to the standard expected of them. He also bought Anderson, Kagawa and I'm probably forgetting another player to play in midfield. It didn't work out. I don't think that they didn't try or put enough into those positions.
For some reason the potential of those players has not been realized.
@JohnnyLaw
It's quite impossible to talk to you. These words were directly quoted from your post and you were accusing me of twisting your words. These are words you used:
"...but years of neglect and bad transfer-deals (and arrogance?) have put us in a situation where we need to strengthen and drastically rebuild our squad. LvG can impossibly be blamed for that, that's for damn sure."
I can interpret it however I can objectively.
It's quite impossible to talk to you. These words were directly quoted from your post and you were accusing me of twisting your words. These are words you used:
"...but years of neglect and bad transfer-deals (and arrogance?) have put us in a situation where we need to strengthen and drastically rebuild our squad. LvG can impossibly be blamed for that, that's for damn sure."
I can interpret it however I can objectively.
I never said that he neglected the CB positions, I said he neglected the CM. Ferdinand and Vidic were on their last legs and Smalling and Jones weren't making enough progress. Anderson was bought Before Ronnie left along with Carrick and Hargreaves, but he also wasn't progressing in the way we hoped yet it took seven years when Moyes took over to buy another CM in Fellaini, not counting Kagawa as a CAM. Our only CM aquisition in that time was Scholes returning from retirement.
On the bolded part, that happens of course but we had plenty of time to reevaluate and act but for some reason we didn't.
You're made it sound like I was some SAF hater who believed he was incompetent which is clearly not what I said, I only critised him for not being Active enough in the transfer market which is perfectly valid. And LvG cannot be blamed for transferpolicies which were under effect when Gill and Ferguson were managing the club, how is that so hard to understand?
You are the one who is impossible to talk with, you've made no effort to contend my arguments at all or shown any interest in reasonably discussing, you've only provided a bunch of bunkum and ramblings which make no sense.
LvG @the press conference on Spurs:
"I have to say they are playing well and I hope we can beat them - it shall be very difficult again."
Wow he sounded like Moyes last season. Oh well.
"I have to say they are playing well and I hope we can beat them - it shall be very difficult again."
Wow he sounded like Moyes last season. Oh well.
As much I appreciate all that, it's not really why some players are struggling. I mean Phil Jones is trying his damnest to play well, I have no doubts about that. He's just shite (or at his best, very replaceable and average).
It really is down to that. We have a huge range of talent in the squad and the harmony (or should I dare say it..'the balance') just isn't right.
If Van Gaal doesn't fix it this summer (or at least improve it significantly) then he will have lost me as well. Until then, I have two eyes, a brain and what I see is a team littered with players that just aren't up to scratch.
Quite key to all of this: If Van Gaal can get Fellaini and Ashley Young playing good stuff, he's clearly a decent manager.
And before the 'but he had January aswell to fix this' excuse comes out - no he didn't. Not unless you believe you can always get the players you want in January. Which in any other thread (other than a Van Gaal thread) that idea would be laughed at.
We'll beat Spurs this weekend I'm pretty sure. Won't be pretty as usual but there'll be a response.
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