Thing is that if a Manager like LvG can't sort us out then we really are in trouble, there's very little room to manoeuvre when you go to a guy like him and are still a bit crap, you have stick with it.
United under LvG: verdict so far!
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Van Gaal's management lacks any kind of spark these days. It was exactly the same with Holland in the World Cup.
As is proven, people in every profession become more set in their ways and less progressive thinking as they get older, and the guy's in his mid 60's.
Saying that, he does have class and top experience, but you just get the feeling that his style just isn't quite suited to English football.
If he gets top 4 I'd give him another season. However, if not I'd let him go.
I really feel Pochettino could do a great job taking over from Van Gaal, I think he's the 'United manager' right under our noses.
As is proven, people in every profession become more set in their ways and less progressive thinking as they get older, and the guy's in his mid 60's.
Saying that, he does have class and top experience, but you just get the feeling that his style just isn't quite suited to English football.
If he gets top 4 I'd give him another season. However, if not I'd let him go.
I really feel Pochettino could do a great job taking over from Van Gaal, I think he's the 'United manager' right under our noses.
Pochettino....really? The guy has done nothing and was being talked as a flop at spurs a few months back. I rate the guy, but that would be even more risky than appointing Moyes.
I never said he did. I said pretty much the opposite. i.e. that Van Gaal has used the "dinsoaur tactics" that Moyes didn''t use. Namely, hoofing the ball to Fellaini like a pub side.
Moyes never did this, but was accused of doing it then slagged off for it. Van Gaal has done this...in fact he reverts to it regardless of the pattern of a game or the opponent.
The problem with Van Gaal is pretty much nothing he does and no decision he makes has any relevance at all to what is and isn''t working on the football pitch...which is a pretty big flaw for the manager of a football team.
The other problem is that he makes bad decisions twice as often as it's even necessary to make a decision in the first place, which is a pretty big flaw for anyone entrusted to make any decision about anything.
Like tonight for example when he kept deciding to change his left back, when there was no need to, and as a result couldn't make changes in other areas where they were actually needed, so creating multiple mistakes out of one bad decision which there was no need at all to make.
He is moronic incompetence in pure living form. Somehow his bullying arrogance has blinded people to this. The reality is you could look like a genius in comparison to him, by simply sitting there not doing anything at all.
The most worrying thing about LVG is he clearly still has not only any idea what our best formation is but still who our best players are..
Rooney has gone from Striker to Number 10 to Midfielder back to Striker
Di Maria has gone from Left Sided diamond to right in a front 3 to a central striker back and now right in a midfield 4
Mata has been in the team out the team in the team and is now back out
Fellaini has been out the team in the team out the team and is now back in
Herrera has been in the team out the team, out the team, out the team, out the team and now he's suddenly back in
The only players who have been absolutely nailed on to play in their best positions this season has been De Gea in goal and RVP up front and only 1 of those two have been deserving of being in the team full stop
This season really is petering out horribly with this only so many defeats in 20 odd games being more and more a pointless stat as the weeks go by, we're in terrible form right when we need to be in our best. I'm not going to go OTT and predict a finish outside of the top 4 but right now there are 3 teams all in better shape than us and that's completely discounting the top 2
Rooney has gone from Striker to Number 10 to Midfielder back to Striker
Di Maria has gone from Left Sided diamond to right in a front 3 to a central striker back and now right in a midfield 4
Mata has been in the team out the team in the team and is now back out
Fellaini has been out the team in the team out the team and is now back in
Herrera has been in the team out the team, out the team, out the team, out the team and now he's suddenly back in
The only players who have been absolutely nailed on to play in their best positions this season has been De Gea in goal and RVP up front and only 1 of those two have been deserving of being in the team full stop
This season really is petering out horribly with this only so many defeats in 20 odd games being more and more a pointless stat as the weeks go by, we're in terrible form right when we need to be in our best. I'm not going to go OTT and predict a finish outside of the top 4 but right now there are 3 teams all in better shape than us and that's completely discounting the top 2
He has improved us in the last few weeks. Firstly, the line-up today was as good as it could be, considering Carrick wasn’t fully fit. He messed it up with Herrera substitution, really bad decision to play Carrick-Blind-Fellaini against Arsenal midfield. It isn’t his fault Di Maria and Valencia are idiots though, and that’s what really cost us the game.
That said, Arsenal are much better team and we are not capable of playing like they do with current squad, so I’m not really surprised we’ve lost. We will be fighting with Liverpool and maybe Spurs for 4th, that’s all what matters.
IMO he lingered for too long to drop Falcao and RvP (there is a danger the latter will come back straight into starting XI), and while others have progressed throughout the season, we’ve moved from the standing still position quite recently.
Fellaini tactics worry me, can do better than that.
That said, Arsenal are much better team and we are not capable of playing like they do with current squad, so I’m not really surprised we’ve lost. We will be fighting with Liverpool and maybe Spurs for 4th, that’s all what matters.
IMO he lingered for too long to drop Falcao and RvP (there is a danger the latter will come back straight into starting XI), and while others have progressed throughout the season, we’ve moved from the standing still position quite recently.
Fellaini tactics worry me, can do better than that.
It seems to be the norm now.
Still have complete faith it was the right appointment, you cannot pass out from the back with the defence we played tonight though.
The obsession with the playing style of lumping the ball to the big oaf up front really pisses me off. That and keeping our best midfielder on the bench.
First off, I did say that if Van gets top 4 I'd let him have another season.
But yeah, Pochettino... he's a manager in the ascendancy and I personally think he's destined to be one of the top, top managers in the world.
I think it's really important when rebuilding that you get a manager who's heading upwards in his career (like Fergie was at the time of his appointment), rather than a manager who's old and plateauing.
Moyes had been in the PL for 11 years and done nothing, Pochettino has been in the PL for 2 seasons and is moving in a definite upward trajectory.
His football is good, attacking and forward thinking, and crucially it's proven to work in the PL. He's a proper leader and I think he has that ruthless ambition about him.
I know it's not the most popular choice but I just really feel he'd 'click' here.
There is that nagging feeling that he just might not 'get' English football. His fascination with lumping it to Fellaini, the reference to needing physically imposing players after WBA. None of it looks like a guy who has figured out the league. Hopefully it's just a case of 'yet'.
Of course I am also disappointed with the performance. For Pete's sake, they were there for the taking after the quick reply from Rooney. And besides, defensive errors are also counted as part of the performance.
I'd say this is true about a number of his starting XI / tactics, that he makes some strange choices which weaken us but usually he gets the in-match changes right. Today, he got that wrong and totally conceded the midfield to a young, pacy Arsenal.
The thing with hoofing it to Fellaini for the last 15 minutes (including time added on) is that it really just wastes possession!
Tonight it baffled me that we switched to this tactic when we had so much possession and looked more likely to get the goal from the game plan we'd used all game.
We basically just deployed a tactic of hoofing the ball into Arsenal possession for the last 15 minutes of a crucial game. Very odd indeed.
Tonight it baffled me that we switched to this tactic when we had so much possession and looked more likely to get the goal from the game plan we'd used all game.
We basically just deployed a tactic of hoofing the ball into Arsenal possession for the last 15 minutes of a crucial game. Very odd indeed.
Continuity is the key only when you are on the right direction and we aren't with this idiot, too many tactical changes and shit substitutions. A lot will and should depend on who we can get but this man is too unstable to take us forward imo.
We still have a few issues to resolve in the squad, obviously, but we did a lot of good work in the summer so three or so good signings ought to see us improve. In that respect I don't think a top manager would need months to assess the players we have because right now those who should stay pick themselves, literally.
There is nothing I would like more than him succeeding here but he is making mistakes he shouldn't be making at this stage of the season and is prone to irrationally disliking players who would otherwise aid our cause.
In fariness he might not have had a fair chance to alter his approach yet, by the time he figured out the PL needed some physicality the summer window had shut, in the winter if players were not available im glad he did the right thing and held out for the summer, instead of doing a Moyes and buying another Mata, that we didnt particuarly need.
as for lumping it to fellaini, I think he realises he just has to pick up results at this stage, lumping it as plan B worked once or twice and at the end of the day he needs to be picking up results no matter what they look like until the end of the season where he has a chance to do some surgery on the side.
At least thats what I hope is the current situation.
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This is what we said, after Moyes got sacked. Everyone was happy with LVG coming in and the new shiny toys in Di maria and Falcao.
Fans are always fickle (That's including me). Yes, we have every reason to be annoyed at today's performance or even the season as a whole. But transition is going to take time, and people have got to get used to it. This is a hard reality check for us. No amount of Money thrown at will solve our problems and no amount of managerial change will mean success.
If we are to sack managers every year owing to lack of success, we would be no different from City or Chelsea. Just another club where players come in just for the money and feck off when they are not interested. We are slowly becoming like that. and sacking LVG would make it complete.
Terrible, his subs today ruined the game. We need a whole new back 4 and at least 3 midfielders
Not sure what to make of Lvg anymore and some of the things he does(selections, subs) are weird. I know many don't rate our players, and although we still need investment, we should be capable of producing better football. Haven't heard anything negative but will the crowd at OT be patient much longer?
Getting genuinely worried by him now... his substitutions are piss poor.
It's quite possible that we have made 2 shocking managerial appointments in a row, it's happened to other teams before.
I am on the fence about this. We do need continuity. However, LVG is no spring chicken either. He won't give us more than a handful of years at best I would guess. So, he builds a team under this philosophy..then leaves...then what? New manager has his own mantra and starts to dismantle everything? Really tough. We were spoiled with Fergie, and not just the success but the long term ethos and management helped us a lot.
This current group are good enough to be performing to a better standard. He's holding them back.
Managing your players, getting the best out of them when called upon. Or at least getting the core to perform to a consistent level. So many players off form at the same time. Look devoid of confidence and energy.
Wasn't his fault today. At the end of the day it was Valencia who gave the goal away (Arguably the first too) and Di Maria who got sent off which cost us.
With the subs, Shaw was just coming back from injury and was letting Ox get too much space. Carrick for Herrera I think was just to sure up the midfield, which I think would of worked had we not given them a goal. Maybe he could of took Fellaini off here and put Herrera into the 10 role but hindsight is a good thing.
Only negative is starting Fellaini over Mata, i could see the idea behind it though and could of gone either way.
With the subs, Shaw was just coming back from injury and was letting Ox get too much space. Carrick for Herrera I think was just to sure up the midfield, which I think would of worked had we not given them a goal. Maybe he could of took Fellaini off here and put Herrera into the 10 role but hindsight is a good thing.
Only negative is starting Fellaini over Mata, i could see the idea behind it though and could of gone either way.
Our team today looked really strong on paper, infact our bench has looked really strong as well this season, stronger than previous seasons but somehow the players aren't performing as well as they should and that only points to one direction(not the band) but to LVG
It was his fault, his silly "philosophy" makes players like Valencia pass the ball back to De Gea every 5 minutes, of course a mistake is likely to happen. Not to mention his shocking substitutes.
He seems to be getting worse honestly, his choices in starters and subs often make no sense at all.
It's sort of funny that he's essentially resorted to the exact tactics Moyes' was likely too scared to try (ie lump it to Fellaini). My only hope is that he has us playing like this out of necessity to get top four and then we'll see some proper improvement after he gets some defenders and another midfielder/winger in this summer.
That said, none of that explains the strange decisions he makes on a regular basis.
It's sort of funny that he's essentially resorted to the exact tactics Moyes' was likely too scared to try (ie lump it to Fellaini). My only hope is that he has us playing like this out of necessity to get top four and then we'll see some proper improvement after he gets some defenders and another midfielder/winger in this summer.
That said, none of that explains the strange decisions he makes on a regular basis.
If after all that awful football he doesn't get 4th then bye.
If we played great football and finished 5th then I would have been happy for him to stay.
If we played great football and finished 5th then I would have been happy for him to stay.
Still has many firmly behind him but that'll change once the number 4 next to our name in the table changes to a 5 or 6.
Barca and Bayern have not hesitated when it comes to sacking managers(Van Gaal should no that very well) are they clubs like that?
All the top clubs do it.
Their fans would destroy a manager of he spent £150m, play the football we are and just about get to 4th.
McManaman as much as a cnut he is, but he was right when he said Madrid fans would wave the handkerchiefs out, if they saw the football we seeing.
To be fair, if you look at Valencia's position, after Jones messes up he can either smash it out for a throw, or pass it back to De Gea and it was an easy pass back, just he had a shit moment.
I realise he wants us to keep the ball/play possession etc. (all whilst playing long-ball to Fellaini, which in itself is a fun contradiction) - but he surely can't be happy with how much time everyone seems to need on the ball before passing it? Our players see a pass, think about making the pass, shimmy around, think about passing again, then see a defender has closed down the space, then decide to pass it... or is he perfectly happy with all our players spending a few seconds longer on the ball than they obviously need too?
It's why that Herrera goal at Swansea sticks out so much, because it involved fast football and quick one/two-touch passing, it's a crazy anomaly.
It's why that Herrera goal at Swansea sticks out so much, because it involved fast football and quick one/two-touch passing, it's a crazy anomaly.
I feel sorry for you if thought we were any different from those other clubs, maybe twenty nine years ago we were but with the money that's floating about in the game, missing out on a top four finish is a sackable offense. That's just the reality and with the highest wage bill in the league it's fecking criminal.
I just don't get it. He sets up the whole team to play this slow, technical, possession football, then lumps Fellaini in the team, in the final 3rd of the opposition half, and continually watches attack after attack break down with him. The amount of times today it looked like we were playing with 10 men (before we actually were!) because there was this massive space between our midfield and the penalty box where a proper #10 should be. I can't blame Fellaini for it, its not like he picks the team, but like you say, its just a massive contradiction. He's playing a player that goes completely against the way he's trying to set the team up then wondering why it doesn't work. He really is monumentally stupid.
If only it were his substitutions but this guy makes at least one selection error in every match that is guaranteed to waste a sub rectifying or cost us points beca he is too idiotic and obstinate to correct. Furthermore, we have not progressed at all from a creative perspective and our forwards have lost confidence as a result.
He's got to go if we're to make any significant progress. Sadly, his methods are outdated in modern day football and it seems like he isn't even close to advancing with it. Football ever so often takes big strides tactical and those that don't keep up get left behind, he's one of those. A dinosaur being put at the helm of our club is more likely to hurt us than move us forward if he's allowed to stay here for a long period.
We need better organisation and team play, the individualistic nature of football has been reduced in recent years. We're still stuck in the past were our attackers are being tasked with creating something out of nothing and its just not going to work.
It was so evident with our bouts of pressing in the first half that the man leading this team isn't the right man for the job. In one instance, we had arsenal in somewhat of a pickle and then for reasons only defined by poor coaching we had two players pressing the same player thus leaving another one open. In another instance rooney led a press and the rest were to slow to react and their players had the time and space to play out and initiate an attack, just poor stuff really.
Watch the teams at the top of the leagues currently and you'll see just how organised those units are. The decision making while defending is spot on and uniform, at our club its individualistic with a bunch of headless chickens running around.
The effort was fantastic and overall the players showed a lot of grinta, but that's not enough. In the first after conceding we played well and it looked like just a matter of time till we scored again but our players not knowing what they're supposed to be doing cost us.
This squad itself is a travesty for the amount of money that has been spent. Then againt that's the managers fault. He was given what was basically an open chequebook in the summer and he decided that these lads were good enough to move us forward. A lot of us had already known that most of these lads aren't of the required level yet our so called manager thought they were. How did he not know who suited his philosophy and who didn't? Please, this continuity nonsense is just that, if we continue with this mediocrity we're really going nowhere.
We need better organisation and team play, the individualistic nature of football has been reduced in recent years. We're still stuck in the past were our attackers are being tasked with creating something out of nothing and its just not going to work.
It was so evident with our bouts of pressing in the first half that the man leading this team isn't the right man for the job. In one instance, we had arsenal in somewhat of a pickle and then for reasons only defined by poor coaching we had two players pressing the same player thus leaving another one open. In another instance rooney led a press and the rest were to slow to react and their players had the time and space to play out and initiate an attack, just poor stuff really.
Watch the teams at the top of the leagues currently and you'll see just how organised those units are. The decision making while defending is spot on and uniform, at our club its individualistic with a bunch of headless chickens running around.
The effort was fantastic and overall the players showed a lot of grinta, but that's not enough. In the first after conceding we played well and it looked like just a matter of time till we scored again but our players not knowing what they're supposed to be doing cost us.
This squad itself is a travesty for the amount of money that has been spent. Then againt that's the managers fault. He was given what was basically an open chequebook in the summer and he decided that these lads were good enough to move us forward. A lot of us had already known that most of these lads aren't of the required level yet our so called manager thought they were. How did he not know who suited his philosophy and who didn't? Please, this continuity nonsense is just that, if we continue with this mediocrity we're really going nowhere.
Nail on the head.
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