United under LvG: verdict so far!

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van Gaal sacrificing creativity through the middle for physicality is baffling me at the moment. This side is screaming for someone like Mata to play through the middle, yet van Gaal chooses to play Fellaini there against Newcastle when it wasn't really necessary.

I get the feeling van Gaal plays Fellaini so that we have someone who won't lose the ball easily in the final third. However, I hope van Gaal sacrifices Fellaini's physicality for Mata's creativity in matches like these. When the opposition invite us, we need someone to create chances through the middle rather than rely on wingers to create all of our chances.
 
It was far from great today, but I do think playing with some natural width is the way forward. The players did the right thing in the final 15 minutes; remained patient, and kept switching the play from side to side. It was still too ponderous, but at least we were attempting to stretch the Toon defence and pull players out of position, rather than trying to play through it.
 
LVG is like one of those drunken loud mouths that gets in your face or a bully, Giggs is like the shy kid that just wants him to feck off

I wouldn't be surprised to see Giggs resign soon
 
golden_blunder said:
LVG is like one of those drunken loud mouths that gets in your face or a bully, Giggs is like the shy kid that just wants him to feck off

I wouldn't be surprised to see Giggs resign soon
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Find it difficult to care very much about the prospect of such a scenario.
 
We just don't really have the creativity through the middle in this moment......Swansea had 2 chances against us all game a week ago and took them both so I can understand Van Gaal going with a cautious approach in regards to central midfielders...Hopefully Herrera can grow in confidence and give us that creativity through the middle that we will absolutely need if we are to make a genuine top 4 push.....People say Mata should have been on from the start but that's nonsense - he goes missing in tough away games pretty much every time, but a nice option for home games and to bring off the bench in games like tonight
 
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Is it just me who sees nothing much in the Giggs stuff? Seems a bit of an over reaction, they seemed to get on fine at full time. In the heat of the moment people will react different. Think people are going way over the top for it.

I've criticised LVG a lot but I didn't actually think we were that bad tonight, seems people will complain for complainings sake at time, Krul had a good game bar the mistake and it's an important win which is what matters.

The most important thing for me was the players reaction with him at the end, they all seemed happy enough with him which is important for the team in crucial games.
 
I think the last few matches have been better. Better formation and positioning of players has helped. Problem is, this sort of performance would have been fine in October, it would have shown improvement. In March, it shows we haven't progressed nearly enough.

Oh, and people really are taking it too far with the Giggs thing...
 
He's making changes which is good, but it always seems to take him ages to accept that something isn't working.

I think we're playing well, and i think playing with one striker is vital for us for the rest of the season, but we're struggling for goals and i think felliani offers us too little upfront. Let's for once try things as they were meant to be, rooney upfront and mata behind him, it'd be much much better than having any 2 strikers.
 
I thought tonight was our best performance for some time. Not that I thought it was that great but we played with some purpose up top.

I have concerns about Rojo, and Evans, and I still cannot believe Mata is not in the team but Rooney ip front is a real positive, though obvious, and I actually thought Di Maria played ok on the right. Carrick and Shaw coming back will help too.
 
Amir said:
I think the last few matches have been better. Better formation and positioning of players has helped. Problem is, this sort of performance would have been fine in October, it would have shown improvement. In March, it shows we haven't progressed nearly enough.

Oh, and people really are taking it too far with the Giggs thing...
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Agreed on the improvements and that it's unfortunate this wasn't what we were seeing in October. But, honestly, it took a lot of experimenting and experience to get us to where we are. Nobody would have picked that XI to get us one of our better performances of the season but here we are. Hope that we don't change it up too much for the FA Cup game, the consistency is helping.
 
Infra-red said:
Find it difficult to care very much about the prospect of such a scenario.
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Likewise. I'd be glad to see him away from the club for a bit actually as I don't want him anywhere near the manager's job.

Also it might be better to have a number 2 with real proven tactical knowhow and a bit more experience.
 
How about some fecking positivity in here! That was better wasn't it? fecks sake lads top match that and we should have walked out 3:0 winners but i'll take a last minute winner away any day get in!

And the giggs clip ffs giggsy obviously had a word about Young getting in the box or something and don't forget he's used to winning leagues he won't go nuts in the dug out until we win something significant.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
People are really reading stuff into that clip of him and Giggs at the end?! Good God.
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Anything to slate LVG I think, I'm not his biggest fan at times but the reaction to it is odd. People have become body language experts, it's like people can never have disagreements when they're working in high pressure jobs. The weird thing about football is people seem to have this illusion that they're all best mates...the reality is it's just a job. A lot of them probably don't see each other outside of training or games.
 
If I had to choose Giggs or LvG to stay at the end of the season it would be LvG no doubt.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
People are really reading stuff into that clip of him and Giggs at the end?! Good God.
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Looked to me like Van Gaal was shouting "Wayne Wayne Wayne", who I'd assume Giggs was calling to be substituted (presumably in favour of Falcao) just before we brought Carrick on. He was just rubbing it in a bit I'm sure.
 
He's pretty bewildering I must say. I don't mind him changing personal seeking a winning formula, but I do question the lack luster slow, plodding football that we seem to be playing. It just seems half the time our players are passing for the sake of passing.
 
The players are still playing for him, thats a big positive I suppose, Id like to see us play with some urgency but i guess thats not his style.
 
RedSky said:
He's pretty bewildering I must say. I don't mind him changing personal seeking a winning formula, but I do question the lack luster slow, plodding football that we seem to be playing. It just seems half the time our players are passing for the sake of passing.
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It's all about keeping the ball and tiring the opposition out, which seems rather silly to me considering how fit footballers are now. LVG seems to really care about possession.
 
I am so confused about why this Giggs/LvG thing is even a thing....
 
PlayerOne said:
It's all about keeping the ball and tiring the opposition out, which seems rather silly to me considering how fit footballers are now. LVG seems to really care about possession.
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It doesn't tire the players though, not when you're passing the ball about as slowly as we are the opposition only have to move a little bit to cover areas. It's not like snappy 1/2 touch football, it's slow passing at the back.

I don't see the vision at the moment and don't really know where Van Gaal is taking us, but it's going to be a rollercoaster in the next month or so.
 
MelvinYeo said:
If I had to choose Giggs or LvG to stay at the end of the season it would be LvG no doubt.
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The way LVG has got us playing at the moment a better question would be between him and Cleverley
 
That video was misinterpreted by trolls on twitter and opposition fans (they are usually one and the same), even G Nev and Scholes were happy with the winner as pathetic as that sounds
 
RedSky said:
It doesn't tire the players though, not when you're passing the ball about as slowly as we are the opposition only have to move a little bit to cover areas. It's not like snappy 1/2 touch football, it's slow passing at the back.

I don't see the vision at the moment and don't really know where Van Gaal is taking us, but it's going to be a rollercoaster in the next month or so.
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I agree. Smalling was saying this before the match:

"We have to just keep moving the ball and, at times, you are keeping it and going side to side. Then you’re waiting for that moment to draw one of your opponents out of position and then you take your chance. But it’s crucial for the two centre-backs that we’re not switching off."
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mazhar13 said:
van Gaal sacrificing creativity through the middle for physicality is baffling me at the moment. This side is screaming for someone like Mata to play through the middle, yet van Gaal chooses to play Fellaini there against Newcastle when it wasn't really necessary.

I get the feeling van Gaal plays Fellaini so that we have someone who won't lose the ball easily in the final third. However, I hope van Gaal sacrifices Fellaini's physicality for Mata's creativity in matches like these. When the opposition invite us, we need someone to create chances through the middle rather than rely on wingers to create all of our chances.
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Not so when you look at Newcastle's players. They've got some big lads in there and they have been playing quite a physical game of late. They certainly threw their weight around against Villa. We're not exactly blessed with a physically strong midfield and our central defenders, bar Rojo, aren't exactly hard men.
 
I've been critical of him at times, but if we're going to pick apart every thing he does then we have to offer praise in the same way. That goal happened because Rooney - who apparently has a fantastic relationship with LVG, based largely on the trust he seems to have in Rooney - broke his bollocks to chase it down and put them under pressure late in the game when the easy thing would have been to half-heartedly chase, letting them out in the process, or give away a foul. That ultimately led to the ball going across to Young, a player almost universally derided, who has been having a brilliant season under LVG, despite often playing in different positions. It's not fair to dismiss his influence on those things happening.
 
Brophs said:
I've been critical of him at times, but if we're going to pick apart every thing he does then we have to offer praise in the same way. That goal happened because Rooney - who apparently has a fantastic relationship with LVG, based largely on the trust he seems to have in Rooney - broke his bollocks to chase it down and put them under pressure late in the game when the easy thing would have been to half-heartedly chase, letting them out in the process, or give away a foul. That ultimately led to the ball going across to Young, a player almost universally derided, who has been having a brilliant season under LVG, despite often playing in different positions. It's not fair to dismiss his influence on those things happening.
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Completely agree, well said.

It was really important that the players got an away win before this run in starts - they need to believe that we can win every single game home or away, and today was a big step in the right direction.
 
Loony BoB said:
Sort of like it was pure luck every other time won by a late goal, right? Bloody 'ell, mate. If it's a goal for your side, you celebrate. ESPECIALLY if it's a very late winner. Then you celebrate harder. Don't care if it's LVG, SAF, Moyes, hell, it could be anyone, you celebrate regardless because you love your team.
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Can't help but being pissed off as soon as I saw that LVG/Giggs thing. The second time in recent weeks I've seen him get in his face and it makes him look like a cnut. Like you said, we've scored a fecking goal, celebrate, don't get in your assistants face or, even worse, start with the 'I told you so' lark. Have a bit of class and save it till later.
 
Brophs said:
I've been critical of him at times, but if we're going to pick apart every thing he does then we have to offer praise in the same way. That goal happened because Rooney - who apparently has a fantastic relationship with LVG, based largely on the trust he seems to have in Rooney - broke his bollocks to chase it down and put them under pressure late in the game when the easy thing would have been to half-heartedly chase, letting them out in the process, or give away a foul. That ultimately led to the ball going across to Young, a player almost universally derided, who has been having a brilliant season under LVG, despite often playing in different positions. It's not fair to dismiss his influence on those things happening.
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Yep. I've been on his back a lot recently, but I think tonight we should be happy.
 
I think today shows why even if the quality of our football gets worse, Van Gaal (and De Gea, really) may get us into the top 4.

But even if we get in, it doesn't mean replacing him this summer isn't the right move. Ancelotti isn't my favorite, but he may be available and I'd prefer him to come in, evaluate and trim the squad and get us playing decent football again. Klopp or Guardiola for sure, but I don't see why they would move this summer.

Point is, we need to be looking at potential replacements, already. If the football doesn't show signs of improving at least a bit in the last 10 games, I'd support a change. We're not some defensive colossus grinding out results. De Gea is brilliant and we should have conceded a penalty today after a feckup, and that's true most games these days.
 
NoPace said:
I think today shows why even if the quality of our football gets worse, Van Gaal (and De Gea, really) may get us into the top 4.

But even if we get in, it doesn't mean replacing him this summer isn't the right move. Ancelotti isn't my favorite, but he may be available and I'd prefer him to come in, evaluate and trim the squad and get us playing decent football again. Klopp or Guardiola for sure, but I don't see why they would move this summer.

Point is, we need to be looking at potential replacements, already. If the football doesn't show signs of improving at least a bit in the last 10 games, I'd support a change. We're not some defensive colossus grinding out results. De Gea is brilliant and we should have conceded a penalty today after a feckup, and that's true most games these days.
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Yeah was a brilliant result and 3 points today, but I would also be looking at potential replacements for him at the end of the season. Unfortunately I think LVG is past his prime and I just don't see how we can win the league under him. We have hardly shown any signs of improvement since pre season, and the pointless passing and possession is nowhere near compatible with this club imo.
 
ravelston said:
I feel we're right on the edge of being able to break out. We're #1 in terms of time of possession and passing accuracy. We've got 9 players in the whoscored.com top 50 for the Prem (Chelsea and City each have 7, Arsenal 6 and Liverpool 5). Whether we like statistical rating systems or not, they aren't inherently biased so we've got to assume that our guys are doing something right. What we're lacking is the cohesion in the last third and, most importantly, the confidence to take shots when they present themselves. A couple of good games could push us over the top, particularly if Falcao starts scoring. I'm immensely optimistic.
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And another stat, van gaal in the PL has not won a game from a losing position home and away.
 
Brophs said:
I've been critical of him at times, but if we're going to pick apart every thing he does then we have to offer praise in the same way. That goal happened because Rooney - who apparently has a fantastic relationship with LVG, based largely on the trust he seems to have in Rooney - broke his bollocks to chase it down and put them under pressure late in the game when the easy thing would have been to half-heartedly chase, letting them out in the process, or give away a foul. That ultimately led to the ball going across to Young, a player almost universally derided, who has been having a brilliant season under LVG, despite often playing in different positions. It's not fair to dismiss his influence on those things happening.
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Well put.
 
NoPace said:
I think today shows why even if the quality of our football gets worse, Van Gaal (and De Gea, really) may get us into the top 4.

But even if we get in, it doesn't mean replacing him this summer isn't the right move. Ancelotti isn't my favorite, but he may be available and I'd prefer him to come in, evaluate and trim the squad and get us playing decent football again. Klopp or Guardiola for sure, but I don't see why they would move this summer.

Point is, we need to be looking at potential replacements, already. If the football doesn't show signs of improving at least a bit in the last 10 games, I'd support a change. We're not some defensive colossus grinding out results. De Gea is brilliant and we should have conceded a penalty today after a feckup, and that's true most games these days.
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Replacing the manager who got us into the top four and thereby restarting this whole "transition" bollocks again with our fourth manager in four years? That strikes me as a less than fabulous idea...

We're supposed to be patient with our managers, remember?
 
People are way too critical of Van Gaal imo, I think he's doing a good job considering the circumstances. We were a side that finished 7th last season, clearly devoid of confidence and with multiple under performing players. He's come in and has got everyone on board, there seems to be a great team spirit and the players that were derided last season (Valencia, Young and Fellaini in particular) have turned round and stepped up for us when we've needed them this season. The whole criticism of the play style I find strange given we played much worse football than this under Moyes and I'd say we even played worse than this under SAF but in that instance we had the best manager around who's mere presence seemed to make players perform at a much higher level than they're capable of.

This season people have compared us to other teams and asked why at times we're not playing like the other sides with new managers (Spurs and Southampton in particular) and I'd say it was fairly obvious, firstly due to confidence (Spurs finished 6th last season, only one place worse off than the previous season where they had Bale baling them out every week, whilst Southampton finished 8th with their highest ever premier league points tally) and secondly due to a certain style of play already being in place at those clubs, Spurs had AvB who wanted to play a certain way and even though he was sacked the players still had 18th months of learning that style under him which in turn left them in good stead for when Pochettino came in, the same Pochettino who also implemented a certain style of play under Southampton before Koeman came in and in both cases those managers came in and pushed on from that, much like the Swansea managers over the past couple of years. That's completely different to us, who had years of one style of play under Ferguson which wasn't particularly attractive and then another year under Moyes which was somehow even worse. Van Gaal's focus is obviously completely different to the way either of those managers wanted to play and by all accounts seems to be one which is quite hard to grasp, it's understandable he'd need time to get players to perform the way he'd like and personally I think we're slowly starting to see it.

Then there's the whole issue with age and lack of experience, we have very few leaders in this team after the losses of Giggs, Rio, Vidic & Evra and that will obviously play a big part in the dressing room and in certain on field situations, also with their departure and others we've been left with the 3rd? youngest squad in the Premier League. To take on a job of this size, with the issues that came with last seasons struggles, trying to implement a new style of play and adjust to a new league I think at this stage you'd have to say he's done/doing a fairly good job, could it be better? Yes, but most people on here at the start of the season were saying they'd be happy with Top 4 and a good cup run and so far we're on course to get Top 4 and we're in the quarters of the FA Cup against a team who've beaten us three times in the league in the last 8 years. I'm not his biggest fan even if it may seem like it here but I think people are way too harsh on him all things considered and I do believe that CL or not by next season he'll have us back up there competing.
 
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Brophs said:
I've been critical of him at times, but if we're going to pick apart every thing he does then we have to offer praise in the same way. That goal happened because Rooney - who apparently has a fantastic relationship with LVG, based largely on the trust he seems to have in Rooney - broke his bollocks to chase it down and put them under pressure late in the game when the easy thing would have been to half-heartedly chase, letting them out in the process, or give away a foul. That ultimately led to the ball going across to Young, a player almost universally derided, who has been having a brilliant season under LVG, despite often playing in different positions. It's not fair to dismiss his influence on those things happening.
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Great post.
 
Brophs said:
I've been critical of him at times, but if we're going to pick apart every thing he does then we have to offer praise in the same way. That goal happened because Rooney - who apparently has a fantastic relationship with LVG, based largely on the trust he seems to have in Rooney - broke his bollocks to chase it down and put them under pressure late in the game when the easy thing would have been to half-heartedly chase, letting them out in the process, or give away a foul. That ultimately led to the ball going across to Young, a player almost universally derided, who has been having a brilliant season under LVG, despite often playing in different positions. It's not fair to dismiss his influence on those things happening.
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Totally agree, Great post!
 
sullydnl said:
Replacing the manager who got us into the top four and thereby restarting this whole "transition" bollocks again with our fourth manager in four years? That strikes me as a less than fabulous idea...

We're supposed to be patient with our managers, remember?
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It's not a great idea, no. The question is if it's better than the alternative. What we don't want is to be playing ugly football and not competing for the title again next year and have to replace him mid-year.

I haven't seen enough to suggest we shouldn't bring in Klopp, Guardiola or Ancelotti if we can. That said, I doubt they'll be available. I'm just saying, though it's shitty to have it depend on who's available rather than being loyal to a manager who got the results we asked him to, it really does.
 
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