U21 Euro Championships 2015

ivaldo said:
So basically, you haven't got a clue, gotcha.

With the U21s he has been. It's become abundantly clear you and Sly have watched buggar all of the U21s, and have based you're entire opinion of it based on the Portugal game. Please tell me what more he could have achieved thus far with the U21s, I'll like to know.
Click to expand...

Take it easy mate. I watched plenty of England U21 games. The game against Portugal and Germany comes to mind. No doubt you did good in both. But the question here like i said it´s the expectations. I´ll call bloody brilliant to Southgate, if he reaches the semi´s or the final. I just think it´s too early to class his work as bloody brilliant.

Edit: by the way i think England did alright in our game. It was a close game. England got some praise from our media. It´s just your midfield and center backs that were pretty crap in that match.
 
Sly said:
I´m sorry being bloody brilliant is someone like Lopetegui who qualified to and WON competitions. Qualifying to tournaments for a team like England, in the group they played, shouldn´t be a big deal. Rui Jorge won our group but it can´t be classed as bloody brilliant because we had freakin Norway and Israel in it. They only did their obligation. Not qualifying from groups like the portuguese and english would be a complete failure. And i look at friendlies with some perspective. I know it´s good to win but to repeat it when it matters in official competitions, is another thing. But i guess we have diferent expectations.
Click to expand...
So really what you're saying is he hasn't performed well enough because he hasn't won any tournament's, despite the fact this is his first tournament with the U21 team, got it.

I take it you havent watched much of England's U21 campaign other than Thursdays game? I've made this assumption as you had to ask if England had any players missing.

What, may I ask, have you made your judgement of Southgates ability on, to be so critical of him specifically?
 
ivaldo said:
So basically, you haven't got a clue, gotcha.

With the U21s he has been. It's become abundantly clear you and Sly have watched buggar all of the U21s, and have based you're entire opinion of it based on the Portugal game. Please tell me what more he could have achieved thus far with the U21s, I'll like to know.
Click to expand...

Coming from you...yep,i am clueless. Sorry you are right, England doing proper way of possession football,just like United in the first few months,where when 75th min comes,those with 60%+ possession look hell of more tired then those who supposedly chased shadows whole game.

Nothing,he is bloody brilliant. Take care.
 
ivaldo said:
So really what you're saying is he hasn't performed well enough because he hasn't won any tournament's, despite the fact this is his first tournament with the U21 team, got it.

I take it you havent watched much of England's U21 campaign other than Thursdays game? I've made this assumption as you had to ask if England had any players missing.

What, may I ask, have you made your judgement of Southgates ability on, to be so critical of him specifically?
Click to expand...

Exactly. I´ll call his work bloody brilliant when he gets some serious time as a manager and actually achieves something, like constant qualifying and winning silverware. At the moment i´d rate his work as decent. Like i said in previous posts, for teams like Portugal and England (in the groups they played), qualifying should be a minimum.

I just dislike the brand the football, specially with the quality England has in the offensive end. Defensive organization wasn´t brilliant against Portugal.
 
R'hllor said:
Coming from you...yep,i am clueless. Sorry you are right, England doing proper way of possession football,just like United in the first few months,where when 75th min comes,those with 60%+ possession look hell of more tired then those who supposedly chased shadows whole game.

Nothing,he is bloody brilliant. Take care.
Click to expand...

You have to understand that for him, qualifying in crappy group, it´s brilliant. Nothing wrong with that. Like i said it´s a matter of expectations.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
Berahino, Stones and Shaw that would have been playing. Wilshere, Jones, Barkley, Sterling who could have been playing.
Click to expand...

And Dier who should have been playing. And at least then, with Stones out, the CB options would have been better than currently.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
Berahino, Stones and Shaw that would have been playing. Wilshere, Jones, Barkley, Sterling who could have been playing.
Click to expand...

Yeah i knew about Berahino and Stones. Regarding the others i thought that they are permanent senior english team performers and don´t count for the u21.
 
Sly said:
You have to understand that for him, qualifying in crappy group, it´s brilliant. Nothing wrong with that. Like i said it´s a matter of expectations.
Click to expand...

He has done OK, quite well. But to answer your original question, no there are not better managers than him that would be interested in the job.

Sly said:
Yeah i knew about Berahino and Stones. Regarding the others i thought that they are permanent senior english team performers and don´t count for the u21.
Click to expand...

Of course they qualify. As much as Willian Carvalho does. I mentioned the other day that Mata won player of the tournament in the competition whilst holding a world cup winners medal.
 
From what i had heard of England prior to the tournament they were prolific goalscorers throughout qualifying, yet now they are decidedly blunt (for all that they are comfortable enough in possession and creating some chances). The offensive play seems to be a little constrained, or at least that is my impression via the radio. Given the importance of the match i think Southgate needs to affect the previous pattern of play, either by providing Kane with a partner or changing the midfield.
 
Last edited:
Sly said:
You have to understand that for him, qualifying in crappy group, it´s brilliant. Nothing wrong with that. Like i said it´s a matter of expectations.
Click to expand...

Yea guess you are right.
 
Sly said:
Exactly. I´ll call his work bloody brilliant when he gets some serious time as a manager and actually achieves something, like constant qualifying and winning silverware. At the moment i´d rate his work as decent. Like i said in previous posts, for teams like Portugal and England (in the groups they played), qualifying should be a minimum.

I just dislike the brand the football, specially with the quality England has in the offensive end. Defensive organization wasn´t brilliant against Portugal.
Click to expand...
The difference is I am capable of reviewing a manager based on what he's acheived THUS FAR. What you've done is question his ability as a manager based on him not getting to at least the semi finals of a tournament they haven't even finished yet, seems sensible to me.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
He has done OK, quite well. But to answer your original question, no there are not better managers than him that would be interested in the job.



Of course they qualify. As much as Willian Carvalho does. I mentioned the other day that Mata won player of the tournament in the competition whilst holding a world cup winners medal.
Click to expand...

Ok understood.

William Carvalho played for the seniors and then was called by our FA and said yes. Others said no. What happened with those english players you mentioned? Did they reject to go or the FA didn´t call them?
 
Sly said:
Ok understood.

William Carvalho played for the seniors and then was called by our FA and said yes. Others said no. What happened with those english players you mentioned? Did they reject to go or the FA didn´t call them?
Click to expand...

The FA didn't call them. It isn't something that a lot of fans agree with. Ross Barkley especially doesn't deserve to be a full senior squad member IMO.
 
ivaldo said:
The difference is I am capable of reviewing a manager based on what he's acheived THUS FAR. What you've done is question his ability as a manager based on him not getting to at least the semi finals of a tournament they haven't even finished yet, seems sensible to me.
Click to expand...

Ok i get it. Expectations, check. Qualifying in a group with Moldova and Finland is brilliant. I questioned his ability as manager because of the style of play and tactical organization in an official tournament match. And i said that in my expectations i only call a managers work bloody brilliant when he constantly qualifies to tournaments and wins or goes far. Something that in my opinion it´s still too early for Southgate because he only qualified in a crappy group and lost his first tournament match. It´s pretty sensible to me but i understand for someone like you, it could be a bloody brilliant (not a criticism).
 
R'hllor said:
Coming from you...yep,i am clueless. Sorry you are right, England doing proper way of possession football,just like United in the first few months,where when 75th min comes,those with 60%+ possession look hell of more tired then those who supposedly chased shadows whole game.

Nothing,he is bloody brilliant. Take care.
Click to expand...
Yeah they looked a hell of a lot more tired than the Swedish team... After 20 minutes - which is when you made the original comment. Yeah they were going down with cramp, gasping for air. You keep making things up though, its going excellently.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
The FA didn't call them. It isn't something that a lot of fans agree with. Ross Barkley especially doesn't deserve to be a full senior squad member IMO.
Click to expand...

It was purely an individual decision by Carvalho. I guess the prospect of playing for english scouts did play a part because he wants to move to England. He was given the choice because he played a very long season (played in the Brazil World Cup, portuguese league, cup run with final and win and Champions League campaign). He choose to come.
 
Sly said:
It was purely an individual decision by Carvalho. I guess the prospect of playing for english scouts did play a part because he wants to move to England. He was given the choice because he played a very long season (played in the Brazil World Cup, portuguese league, cup run with final and win and Champions League campaign). He choose to come.
Click to expand...

All players chose to come? I fail top see your point.
 
ivaldo said:
Yeah they looked a hell of a lot more tired than the Swedish team... After 20 minutes - which is when you made the original comment. Yeah they were going down with cramp, gasping for air. You keep making things up though, its going excellently.
Click to expand...

Woah you are pure gold,i mentioned United and 75th min,you replied when it was 55th min in game vs Sweden... i really cba.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
All players chose to come? I fail top see your point.
Click to expand...

There isn´t any point. I was just talking about Carvalho. I said that some players choose to come and others prefered to go on holiday.
 
Sly said:
Ok i get it. Expectations, check. Qualifying in a group with Moldova and Finland is brilliant. I questioned his ability as manager because of the style of play and tactical organization in an official tournament match. And i said that in my expectations i only call a managers work bloody brilliant when he constantly qualifies to tournaments and wins or goes far. Something that in my opinion it´s still too early for Southgate because he only qualified in a crappy group and lost his first tournament match. It´s pretty sensible to me but i understand for someone like you, it could be a bloody brilliant (not a criticism).
Click to expand...
As I thought, basing your entire opinion on 90 minutes of football, in a match that you yourself said England played well.

I expect England to do better than they have done in recent years, I expect them to be challenging for tournaments. As I said, he had done brilliantly so far, when he couldn't physically acheive more than he had that for be an apt conclusion. You seem to be confusing my expectations of the England national team to what Southgate has achieved SO FAR, understand the difference.
 
England looking very dangerous. Aren't Sweden's U21s one of the best, or have I got them mixed up with another Scandinavian country?
 
R'hllor said:
Woah you are pure gold,i mentioned United and 75th min,you replied when it was 55th min in game vs Sweden... i really cba.
Click to expand...
Seriously? We are talking about England not United. You quoted me. Youve drawn a comparison to how England have kept possession after the 20th minute to how United keep the ball in the 75th minute. :lol: genuinely clueless.
 
Redmond is a bit lightweight, and on the whole this England side just look completely lost in the final third. Which is odd really, given thats where their best players are and they were scoring for fun for the last year or so. I guess tournament nerves is handed down from the seniors.

I think there is really something wrong with the way the FA handle the players during tournaments at every level.
 
ivaldo said:
As I thought, basing your entire opinion on 90 minutes of football, in a match that you yourself said England played well.

I expect England to do better than they have done in recent years, I expect them to be challenging for tournaments. As I said, he had done brilliantly so far, when he couldn't physically acheive more than he had that for be an apt conclusion. You seem to be confusing my expectations of the England national team to what Southgate has achieved SO FAR, understand the difference.
Click to expand...

I said England did alright. More because of some individual efforts rather than by the way Southgate prepared the team. Mind you it wasn´t a pretty match and our team got some criticism for the performance. Still won nevertheless.

I´m not confusing anything. It´s pretty simple. A team with the talent England has, qualifying in a group with Finland and Moldova is granted. Achieving qualification in that group isn´t bloody brilliant. For you perhaps but not for me. Portugal played against Norway and Israel and achieving qualification in that group isn´t bloody brilliant for me. But whatever. For you it´s amazing. Beating Finland and Moldova and losing to Portugal in the first match that really matters. Brilliant i say.
 
ivaldo said:
Seriously? We are talking about England not United. You quoted me. Youve drawn a comparison to how England have kept possession after the 20th minute to how United keep the ball in the 75th minute. :lol: genuinely clueless.
Click to expand...

:lol: There is no help for you but already admitted how clueless i am. Goodbye.
 
Sly said:
I said England did alright. More because of some individual efforts rather than by the way Southgate prepared the team. Mind you it wasn´t a pretty match and our team got some criticism for the performance. Still won nevertheless.

I´m not confusing anything. It´s pretty simple. A team with the talent England qualifying in a group with Finland and Moldova is granted. Achieving qualification in that group isn´t bloody brilliant. For you perhaps but not for me. Portugal played against Norway and Israel and achieving qualification isn´t bloody brilliant for me. But whatever. For you it´s amazing. Beating Finland and Moldova and losing to Portugal in the first match that really matters. Brilliant i say.
Click to expand...
Again you're still struggling to understand the concept so I think we will leave that one. And we've come to the conclusion that you've made your judgement of Southgate based on one game so I think we can leave that one too.
 
Joemo said:
England looking very dangerous. Aren't Sweden's U21s one of the best, or have I got them mixed up with another Scandinavian country?
Click to expand...
Not really rated other than the win against Italy the other day (with 10 men for some part) not heard much about them. Effective outfit with not much pressure on them I suppose, also great travelling support.
 
Didn't know Rooney was playing for the U21 looking for Valencia.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.