But this is what I mean. Someone can be XXY, XYY XXXY, etc. What's more dominant, the Xs or the Ys? Is it any number of Ys makes you a man no matter how many Xs?Biologically you're either XY or XX. If you have extra chromosomes, it's usually down to a mutation, or a genetic abnormality etc. which is where something in utero has happened that ordinarily shouldn't happen (i.e. wrong).
And this is different from other forms of mutations? My understanding has always been, that evolution is just a bunch of mutations that happen to be advantageous for survival, thus they prevail. Just coincidence that basically works out in the organisms favour. Why would this be a different matter?When it comes to chromosomal abnormalities they’re “wrong” in a very specific sense in that there’s usually been an error during cell division. And those errors won’t ever evolve out of existence because no biological system is completely flawless.
Does anyone in this thread support a child going through gender affirmation surgery? If so, do you also support the right for children to vote?
And this is different from other forms of mutations? My understanding has always been, that evolution is just a bunch of mutations that happen to be advantageous for survival, thus they prevail. Just coincidence that basically works out in the organisms favour. Why would this be a different matter?
Last time I checked you didn't go through a string of assessments and consultations run by adults in order to vote.Does anyone in this thread support a child going through gender affirmation surgery? If so, do you also support the right for children to vote?
A quick search suggests they would look at the individual's phenotype characteristics. Going back to my GCSE days the phenotype was the physical expression of your genes.But, there is a spectrum of XY combinations, including men with XX combinations.
Basically, what are the parameters of a biological male or female and what do you call those who are outside those parameters? It's not trans, that's gender.
Not true at all. The vast majority of genetic/chromosomal abnormalities have negative consequences. Causing anything from death in utero to cancer. Some of them are survivable, many not. And only a very tiny proportion might theoretically have some sort of advantage.
The classic example that always gets mentioned is having a single copy of the gene that causes sickle cell anaemia is a survival benefit in regions where malaria is endemic (having both copies just causes sickle cell anaemia, a bad outcome). But this is very much an exception.
For optimal health you ideally don’t want any mistakes in the transcription of genes/chromosomes. That’s basically how radiation poisoning kills you. It increases the number of these errors. Using your logic exposure to high levels of radiation would give you super powers. Unfortunately that’s only true in comic books.
I’m aware that it is not necessarily an advantage and can be deadly and so on. But that’s besides the point. My point is that someone called any mutation that would cause differences in chromosomes a mistake. Which I strongly disagree with. Especially from a biological point of view. My view is that there are no mistakes. Just coincidences. And, as you rightly pointed out, these coincidences can turn out rather badly for the organism, they can be irrelevant or they can be an advantage. But most of all mutations are necessary in order for evolution to actually happen. And these mutations caused us to exist, they caused sexual procreation to exist and so on.
And in order to get to my initial point, if we are to call mutations that cause variations of chromosomes a mistake, I fail to see why the very same logic can’t be used in order to call sexual procreation in itself a mistake. Because from my understanding, sexual procreation exists because of mutation.
Now I’m far from being an expert on the matter and what I’m trying to say could be lost in translation. But as far as my understanding of evolution goes, there simply aren’t mistakes. Or every mutation is a mistake. I just don’t really believe that biology makes mistakes. In order for mistakes to happen you need a form of consciousness and purpose.
XX is female. XY is male. Any extra chromosomes will start from that basis (i.e. either XX or XY).But this is what I mean. Someone can be XXY, XYY XXXY, etc. What's more dominant, the Xs or the Ys? Is it any number of Ys makes you a man no matter how many Xs?
And what about those people who are born with male sexual organs but XX chromosomes?
It can't be massively detrimental, because even 1 in 1000 is a very high proportion, and the extra Xs and Ys must have some effect on biological sex.
What exactly are you referring to here, concerning this thread? Please be specific.
Yeah no having an opinion that other human beings are imps, demons, rats or whatever is wrong however you want to slice it.
Below is an actual response to my comment. Do you think this is acceptable?
You made your posts about the intolerance of the left right after a tweet about a Florida Lawmaker referring to transgender people, to their face, as imps and demons. Which is what @Dr. Dwayne was referencing, as a sarcastic response to your claim.Below is an actual response to my comment. Do you think this is acceptable?
Why not? Or do you want to restrict the posters right to free speech?Below is an actual response to my comment. Do you think this is acceptable?
Opinion about your own body not other people's bodies. Questions.. why does it concern you if they're making choices that's only affecting THEIR bodies?The only important thing to remember is that you're not wrong to ask questions and have an opinion. There's a very weird thing going on in the present-day Western world, and the lack of tolerance from everyone is unbelievable. I've always been liberal, left leaning, but it's hard to square myself with that position these days. There's nothing liberal about the left anymore.
I'd say that what rights trans people are or aren't given or entitled to touches just about every part of this discussion.
Below is an actual response to my comment. Do you think this is acceptable?
Well that post came after yours, so it can't have been what triggered your post. But of course I think that is acceptable. Do you think literally any opinion is valid?
And if pointing out an opinion and saying "it's wrong" is a sign of the intolerant left, then I think you might need to reconsider what tolerance means. That's about as mild as it comes.
Opinion about your own body not other people's bodies. Questions.. why does it concern you if they're making choices that's only affecting THEIR bodies?
OK. You're getting hung up on the wrong part of my post, but let's indulge. Start with my question - if the thread is about rights, then what rights do the general population have that trans people do not?
So just shut up and have no opinion? Why? Certain people are denying discussion. That's what I'm talking about. I have zero interest the actual topic, it's not particularly interesting in my opinion. But the shutting down of discussion is absolutely not on, and that's what I'm talking about.
The reference point of your post and therefore context was clear and if someone wants to bemoan the standard of debate under the censorious and uncivil grip of the "left", they would be best placed to do so having either a) watched the vid posted with the thread and got the context (which I got, as an aside, having not yet viewed it) or b) stop playing games and have the courage of their convictions.I assumed you'd watched the video in that Tweet. Not suggesting you feel the same as that guy but I wanted to highlight how people in power use opinions to dehumanize groups they don't like to make it easier for the general population to accept their oppression under the law.
You are literally having a discussion right now, although it is currently, admittedly, a meta discussion about whether you can have a discussion.So just shut up and have no opinion? Why? Certain people are denying discussion. That's what I'm talking about. I have zero interest the actual topic, it's not particularly interesting in my opinion. But the shutting down of discussion is absolutely not on, and that's what I'm talking about.
Whenever I see a reply such as this, I’m always reminded of this K&P sketch:
Why don’t you try offering an opinion rather than positing ‘gotcha’ phrases?
Transgenders are mentally ill & troubled?I think these people are mentally ill and troubled, and it's quite unfortunate that society rather than treat their problem and get to the root of the cause why they feel uncomfortable in their own bodies, instead it is encouraged. Said people later realize that injecting themselves with hormones and surgeries doesn't help their depression and a large portion of them ends up killing themselves.
My bet is that a lot of these people suffer from severe depression and are looking for answers on how to escape it, but rather than helping them, people encourage it. It's like telling a person who thinks he is a superhero that can fly, that yes, he indeed he can because every person can be what they want. Said person then jumps off a building trying to test his flying powers and dies. Did you really help him by encouraging his ideas?
I think these people are mentally ill and troubled, and it's quite unfortunate that society rather than treat their problem and get to the root of the cause why they feel uncomfortable in their own bodies, instead it is encouraged. Said people later realize that injecting themselves with hormones and surgeries doesn't help their depression and a large portion of them ends up killing themselves.
My bet is that a lot of these people suffer from severe depression and are looking for answers on how to escape it, but rather than helping them, people encourage it. It's like telling a person who thinks he is a superhero that can fly, that yes, he indeed he can because every person can be what they want. Said person then jumps off a building trying to test his flying powers and dies. Did you really help him by encouraging his ideas?
I guess the important thing is how you are defining "troubled"I mean, it’s an awful post. But is it even possible to be trans without experiencing gender dysphoria? Which would surely constitute being - at the very least - “troubled”?
I guess the important thing is how you are defining "troubled"
Troubled as in stressed or depressed versus troubled being mentally disturbed in an unhinged manner
I was always under the assumption that trans people have a high suicide rate because their transition isn’t accepted by society, not because they were mentally ill and end up regretting it. Is there any link between them being mentally ill and because of this are therefore more susceptible to suicide?
The simple right to be able to exist in the public space as you or I can without being abused, threatened or marginalised.
If you think they dont get abused, threatened or marginalised then you need to open your eyes because they do, frequently.
Currently around the world there has been an anti trans sentiment whipped up and they as a social group within our societies are receiving more threats than ever before.
Here in NZ just 3 days ago the Police announced a specific request for all those in the Trans community to contact them about any threat they may have had. The reason for this request??? Solid intelligence from their sections monitoring domestic terrorism that there are plans to attack them.
Only 2 weeks ago a community library here had to shut down a school holiday event where some in the Trans community had done a fun Drag queen reading of some books. Anti Trans protestors forced the event to be shut down mid way through. The leaders of the protest and many of the protestors were identified as well known Nazi and white supremicists here in NZ. There is right now around the world a serious mood of threat towards trans people.
To be able to exist without persecution, threat or abuse is ats a pretty major right, something I dont have to worry about.
Gender dysphoria could be categorized as mental illness, (honestly, I don't see how it is not.) However it is treatable. Also those people do not present danger nor are dysfunctional in society. There are also cases of people transitioning multiple times (I remember reading about one such example in Norway, if I remember correctly). However, making a sweeping statement brushing away gender dysphoria as a real condition and claiming they are all troubled and end up killing themselves because of their imagined problems, well I expect some hard proof for these kind of statements.I was always under the assumption that trans people have a high suicide rate because their transition isn’t accepted by society, not because they were mentally ill and end up regretting it. Is there any link between them being mentally ill and because of this are therefore more susceptible to suicide?
I can't even be bothered to type out a proper reply to this absolute crock of shit.I think these people are mentally ill and troubled, and it's quite unfortunate that society rather than treat their problem and get to the root of the cause why they feel uncomfortable in their own bodies, instead it is encouraged. Said people later realize that injecting themselves with hormones and surgeries doesn't help their depression and a large portion of them ends up killing themselves.
My bet is that a lot of these people suffer from severe depression and are looking for answers on how to escape it, but rather than helping them, people encourage it. It's like telling a person who thinks he is a superhero that can fly, that yes, he indeed he can because every person can be what they want. Said person then jumps off a building trying to test his flying powers and dies. Did you really help him by encouraging his ideas?
Now that's stereotyping!I guess the important thing is how you are defining "troubled"
Troubled as in stressed or depressed versus troubled being mentally disturbed in an unhinged manner
Why is it so hard for some people to accept that others can do whatever the hell they want with their own bodies? It's not your body, it's theirs. If they want to add two penises or two vaginas that's their right and they get to choose. If it's not on your body shut the hell up. I'm tired of people trying to analyze and justify someone else's choice. Only they need to know why it was necessary, and only they need to be comfortable with it. Period.
I couldn't give a feck what people do with their bodies. But don't go around forcing me to say your pronounce instead of your name. And I'm not cis anything either, I'm a male.
has anyone ever done that to you?
