I imagine things are a good bit different in other countries with high school athletics leading to collegiate athletic scholarships, but in the US, when it comes to competing with real money on the table as a high school athlete, I’d say stringent rules need to go below the “elite” level in a system like ours.
Transgender Athletes
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I would propose(without having done significant research) that an extremely big and strong born female player is still going to have a lesser bone density and muscle mass than a comparable sized born male player.
It is a difficult one for organizing bodies, but I think safety has to be a key factor in these types of sports, with direct violent physical contact.
I don't disagree with the bolded, but it raises the question - is there any man who you would deem too big and strong to safely compete in men's rugby?
Currently no, but if you could somehow take a player from todays juiced up, power and impact obsessed Rugby and transport them back to the amateur 70 and 80's I would have serious concerns for the health of their opponents.
Male Rugby these days will not allow for the total physical mis-match at the top level, you aren't getting there unless you demonstrate you can cope, even the scrum halfs, wings and 10's are extremely powerful and explosive now. Down the levels there is the potential for danger if outlier level athletes somehow end up playing against average amateurs
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The US system is fecked because it exploits athletes and the stringent rules would play into the hands of the transphobic lot.
The Times claim there are currently five or six transgender women - who are active players because the RFU have previously seen no increased risk to opponents based on size and weight - playing amateur rugby in England.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/s...N-transgender-women-playing-womens-games.html
Not sure if this has been mentioned. Apologies if so.
Edit: And this thread from a pro-inclusion rugby club may be of interest or open to debate from some:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/s...N-transgender-women-playing-womens-games.html
Not sure if this has been mentioned. Apologies if so.
Edit: And this thread from a pro-inclusion rugby club may be of interest or open to debate from some:
How exactly would that happen?
Stringent rules would prevent a trans athlete from taking a scholarship opportunity away from a biologically female athlete.
Sure, but ideally we'd do away with the fecked up system of having nearly unpaid adult athletes exploited.
That is a completely different point and NIL laws now exist, so… back on topic
they get a free college education. Also college basketball will start to pay I believe
NIL affects all college athletes.
edit: and states have been adding NIL for high school athletes
As they should. In Europe you have pro contracts from 16 plus so you can earn. In the old USA system you dont make a crumb until you are 19/20 even if you are a star or international calibre player, yet the organisation does. The work of the great Lavar Ball.
Yes, but a topic for a different thread I would think.
Compelling argument here. Rugby is the sport with the most diverse shapes/sizes so maybe one where small (biological) men could fairly play in women’s teams.
Turns out the smallest male rugby professional in the game (and I’ve seen him play, he’s freakishly tiny - I genuinely thought he was a mascot during the anthems) is significantly stronger than the biggest/heaviest female rugby players in the game.
I guess the tricky bit here is that even so the sizes etc vary one problem exists in that males have that bit of extra strength. A male and a female of the same shape and size will for the vast majority of time still have a strength and speed imbalance. Even with a Small man there will be an imbalance . She mentions this later in here tweets. Interesting angle on things though because it could help with those issues of girls playing in boys teams and vice versa in areas where there arent many kids to make up teams.
From what I've read the girls in the competition have already signed a petition to exclude Valentina. Hope it works and that they remove the records or at least put an asterisk next to it but this cases can get very silly.
I'm not taking any sides in this potentially heated debate, but we have truly reached the niche corner with Italian 200 meters for women between the age of 50 and 54. I didn't even know that such a category existed!
I'm not taking any sides in this potentially heated debate, but we have truly reached the niche corner with Italian 200 meters for women between the age of 50 and 54. I didn't even know that such a category existed!
It's a masters category. If it's like in swimming people are grouped in 5 year age gaps starting from 25. Like 25 to 29, then 30 to 34, then 35 to 39 and so no.
Unless you're some kind of sports savant, why would you?I didn't even know that such a category existed!
I learned earlier just this week in the hypernormalization thread that combat juggling, of all things, is a real thing.I don't think there's much of a debate. Everyone agrees it's daft.
I'm not taking any sides in this potentially heated debate, but we have truly reached the niche corner with Italian 200 meters for women between the age of 50 and 54. I didn't even know that such a category existed!
Masters categories in sport has been a thing for ages. 5 year cohorts all the way up to very very old. It’s a cool idea. Gives old cnuts like me something to aspire to.
It’s nice to see that thread continues to educated the public.
Bit harsh mate, just let the old ladies go for a run.
It's my favourite thread. I've yet to watch the actual documentary/film, does it still hold up?
Terfs gonna terf.
You really think he’s a feminist?!
What's your take on this, if you're inclined? Do you see a way to solve this in a way which everyone involved is happy? Or is it even a problem at all? I feel like I see these stories about these records being broken in this manner all the time, but surely sports associations all over the world would have reacted in some way by now if this was a massive problem?
I think you can safely say that anything with that terminology can be safely discarded as not a valid opinion
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I'm not inclined at the moment, sorry, every time I've talked about it on here I ended up wishing I didn't.
It's a relatively new problem. Most sports used to rely on rules set by the IOC. Those rule have gradually changed over the past couple of decades - effectively from complete exclusion, via an attempt to define physical and social transition that made it more or less impossible for an athlete to compete until they were already past their sporting prime years, then to testosterone limits, then to no standard criteria and an instruction to different sports to define their own rules.
The various sports are trying to do that and we're seeing the first test cases coming from them now.
Not sure what happened to my thread but got the emails.
@Schmiznurf fair play to you bud for being open and honest about being comfortable to date a trans person pre or post op. Lot of respect for that.
Personally I'd just be uncomfortable with it and would find it far too challenging. But hey love is love and you never know who you'll fall in love with, maybe if you found yourself grow attached or attracted to someone your opinion could change.
I've no issue with people transitioning and they can do what they wish for all I care, they have my support. But I think trans people need to respect others views too and not be offended by people who wouldn't be interested in dating them.
I'm concerned my thread must have been taken as offensive seeing as it was locked. So apologies for anyone I offended. I just feel contensus topics like dating trans people should be open for discussion because it's important to have these discussions and open dialogue and get different perspectives.
Also sorry to OP for posting in this thread. I didn't know where else to respond.
@Schmiznurf fair play to you bud for being open and honest about being comfortable to date a trans person pre or post op. Lot of respect for that.
Personally I'd just be uncomfortable with it and would find it far too challenging. But hey love is love and you never know who you'll fall in love with, maybe if you found yourself grow attached or attracted to someone your opinion could change.
I've no issue with people transitioning and they can do what they wish for all I care, they have my support. But I think trans people need to respect others views too and not be offended by people who wouldn't be interested in dating them.
I'm concerned my thread must have been taken as offensive seeing as it was locked. So apologies for anyone I offended. I just feel contensus topics like dating trans people should be open for discussion because it's important to have these discussions and open dialogue and get different perspectives.
Also sorry to OP for posting in this thread. I didn't know where else to respond.
I want trans people to be themselves and who they want to be and to be happy with that. If they could just… pursue a love other than sports/athletics just for the short term I feel like that would really help. I of course say that tongue in cheek. One video like the above and all sensible discussion flies out of the window with a massive portion of society. It’s an obvious elephant in the room that would at some point need addressing but I feel like the sports thing has been a really effective weapon for those opposing.
Cheers. So it's basically just different sport bodies trying to figure out how to best navigate these uncharterted waters, and it will probably be decided on a case to case basis like that, rather than some overarching stategy by the IOC? Or did I misunderstand that?
Had to look it up in spanish, it was still very convoluted but made more sense than when you read it in english.
They have already, like the trans athlete that wanted to compete with women in powerlifting. USA powelifting wouldn't go with it but Human Rights overruled that decision allowing that person to compete. I believe USA Powerlifting are going to appeal that decision, FINA also had a reaction to the Lia Thomas case.