Transgender Athletes

And in some races the transgender athletes lost. And in other races this girl lost to other cis girls. Sometimes you win sometimes you lose, this is school sports, not the world cup.
Way to completely, and intentionally, miss the point.

And the “this is school sports, not the World Cup” completely glosses over the fact that competing well in school sports are how many people afford to attend college.

How many biological females didn’t get looked at for a college scholarship because they got kept out of a race by someone who isn’t one?

But again, you’re intentionally missing the point, so that won’t matter to you.
 
At the end of the day the whole point in seperating mens and womens sports is to make competition fairer. Allowing transgender athletes to compete with women completely defeats seperating genders in the first place.
Ah yes, but “it isn’t the World Cup” so we shouldn’t care about it. /s
 
The discussion and debate about transgender athletes should be one that is nuanced and not built on ill thought and reactionary assumptions. But, in my experience, when kids who are involved in generally niche competitive sports like running start to lose, they become snidey and sore losers because at the core of their soul they are absolute cnuts.
 
Way to completely, and intentionally, miss the point.

And the “this is school sports, not the World Cup” completely glosses over the fact that competing well in school sports are how many people afford to attend college.

How many biological females didn’t get looked at for a college scholarship because they got kept out of a race by someone who isn’t one?

But again, you’re intentionally missing the point, so that won’t matter to you.

So transgender girls would never get sports scholarships, gotcha, problem solved I guess.

Having a ridiculous system where some people can only go to college if they are good at sports is a problem that wasn't caused by transgender kids, so why should they have to pay for it?
 
The discussion and debate about transgender athletes should be one that is nuanced and not built on ill thought and reactionary assumptions. But, in my experience, when kids who are involved in generally niche competitive sports like running start to lose, they become snidey and sore losers because at the core of their soul they are absolute cnuts.
Running is niche? That's a pretty universal sport / activity for kids of all ages across the globe.
 
I just love how in all these stories it's always absolute nobodies who make up ridiculous claims of being robbed of made up achievements while having been beaten by multiple cis woman in the process as well.
Without checking the story I'd be willing to bet big money that she never was and never will be the fastest in Connecticut even if you only take cis girls but the right wing press loves to jump on these future suburban mom stories that love the attention.
Needs tagline 'Shit at Gambling'.
 
So they would get no scholarships, thanks for making it clear.
Wow, you’ve got that little faith in them competing in an open category? That’s harsh.

Although, “it’s just school sports, not the World Cup” so I guess you shouldn’t be too concerned.
 
Wow, you’ve got that little faith in them competing in an open category? That’s harsh.

Although, “it’s just school sports, not the World Cup” so I guess you shouldn’t be too concerned.
I don't know why you're so surprised another person would consider the well being of teenagers and young adults ahead of the professionalization of college sports, which is in itself highly exploitative of their athletes. If universities think the scholarship system will be unfair to cis-girls, just offer the runner up a scholarship, problem solved. When it comes to school sports, I want young folks safe and healthy, not create systems that ban people based on who they are.

So yeah, this is school sports, let kids play and compete. Give away more scholarships, or even better, a crazy idea like the one we have here in portugal, if you want to go to college, you get a full scholarship based on your grades, not how fast you run, how about that?

If you want to talk about the olympics, I'm open to consider it in a different way.
 
Running is niche? That's a pretty universal sport / activity for kids of all ages across the globe.
I was being partly facetious but to be fair running is probably quite niche around my area as only one of the high schools actually has a track and field site. The more popular sports for kids seem to be football, rugby, tennis and - based on the bottles I see them holding - underage drinking and shouting "the feck you looking at, you bald old cnut?"
 
If universities think the scholarship system will be unfair to cis-girls, just offer the runner up a scholarship, problem solved.
Have you ever been involved in the collegiate athletics recruitment process?
I want young folks safe and healthy, not create systems that ban people based on who they are.
That sounds nice… but we’re talking about actual competitive athletics here.
if you want to go to college, you get a full scholarship based on your grades, not how fast you run, how about that?
We have academic scholarships here too.
Give away more scholarships
Schools can’t. Athletic scholarships are regulated and limited by the NCAA / NAIA.
 
Have you ever been involved in the collegiate athletics recruitment process?
No, and I don't care to learn as it has nothing to do with I'm defending here.
That sounds nice… but we’re talking about actual competitive athletics here.
I don't think school competitions trump the well being of an already marginalized group of kids.
We have academic scholarships here too.
We have academic scholarships for everyone. No number limit. You're a good student but don't have money? The state pays 100%. Maybe the energy spent on trying to exclude transgender girls from sports could be spent on pushing for something like that.
Schools can’t. Athletic scholarships are regulated and limited by the NCAA / NAIA.
Are you telling me rules can be changed to exclude transgender girls but not changed to allow for more scholarships? Priorities...
 
No, and I don't care to learn as it has nothing to do with I'm defending here.
Then maybe don’t say what schools should do instead when your being aggressively ignorant about how it works.
I don't think school competitions trump the well being of an already marginalized group of kids.
The irony of how that statement works for the female athletes isn’t lost on me.
We have academic scholarships for everyone. No number limit. You're a good student but don't have money? The state pays 100%. Maybe the energy spent on trying to exclude transgender girls from sports could be spent on pushing for something like that.
While I would love to see that in place here, it is a very separate issue that would involve a complete overhaul of the entire US college & university system.

Are you telling me rules can be changed to exclude transgender girls but not changed to allow for more scholarships? Priorities...
I’m telling you about what the reality is, a reality you’ve already said you’re ignorant of.

And the current Dept of Ed policy proposal is to “allow schools to reject transgender athletes from competing on sports teams that align with their gender identity, when questions of physicality and fairness arise.”
https://www.nytimes.com/article/title-ix-transgender-athletes-school-sports.html
 
Then maybe don’t say what schools should do instead when your being aggressively ignorant about how it works.

The irony of how that statement works for the female athletes isn’t lost on me.

While I would love to see that in place here, it is a very separate issue that would involve a complete overhaul of the entire US college & university system.


I’m telling you about what the reality is, a reality you’ve already said you’re ignorant of.

And the current Dept of Ed policy proposal is to “allow schools to reject transgender athletes from competing on sports teams that align with their gender identity, when questions of physicality and fairness arise.”
https://www.nytimes.com/article/title-ix-transgender-athletes-school-sports.html
So in summary:

Suggestions that keep transgender kids included in school sports and improves the access to education for all = too many changes necessary, can't be done.

Banning transgender girls from competing in school sports and getting scholarships = sad, but there's no other way.

I know which side I'll be on every single time.

We'll never agree on this and I think you've exhausted your daily usage of the word ignorant, so have a nice day.
 
So in summary:

Suggestions that keep transgender kids included in school sports and improves the access to education for all = too many changes necessary, can't be done.

Banning transgender girls from competing in school sports and getting scholarships = sad, but there's no other way.

I know which side I'll be on every single time.

We'll never agree on this and I think you've exhausted your daily usage of the word ignorant, so have a nice day.
Ta
Clearly is to you, since you insist on using transphobic terminology
Do go on
 
Guys it’s a waste of time talking to Carolina Red. He has this weird fascination about cis girl scholarships - because clearly they’re the most important thing about the entire trans rights discussion, and god forbid trans girls have the actual audacity to take one or two of them away from, you know, ‘proper’ girls.

How he is still ‘moderating’ this thread is frankly beyond me but there we go
 
Guys it’s a waste of time talking to Carolina Red. He has this weird fascination about cis girl scholarships - because clearly they’re the most important thing about the entire trans rights discussion, and god forbid trans girls have the actual audacity to take one or two of them away from, you know, ‘proper’ girls.

How he is still ‘moderating’ this thread is frankly beyond me but there we go
Always a pleasure, step.
 
Way to completely, and intentionally, miss the point.

And the “this is school sports, not the World Cup” completely glosses over the fact that competing well in school sports are how many people afford to attend college.

How many biological females didn’t get looked at for a college scholarship because they got kept out of a race by someone who isn’t one?

But again, you’re intentionally missing the point, so that won’t matter to you.
one of if not our biggest sports events in Jamaica is a "school sport". Its extremely tribal, fierce competitive and seen as a stepping stone for our athletes to go on to better things. To say its "schools sports " like its some random playground rodeo is crazy i think. These are where the likes of Shelly-ann Fraser , Veronica Campbell, Elaine Thompson-Hera are born. Well at least for us.
 
one of if not our biggest sports events in Jamaica is a "school sport". Its extremely tribal, fierce competitive and seen as a stepping stone for our athletes to go on to better things. To say its "schools sports " like its some random playground rodeo is crazy i think. These are where the likes of Shelly-ann Fraser , Veronica Campbell, Elaine Thompson-Hera are born. Well at least for us.
I mean, you just described a horrible system, if young kids rely on being good at sports to move up in life. Why on earth would we want to aspire to that?
 
was just looking at her 100 m times, we have local school boy athletes in 10 -13 age division running times faster than her. Quite interesting
If that's her average time do you think it's fair to put her up against transgender athletes who are more powerful athletes and will have a better average?
 
I mean, you just described a horrible system, if young kids rely on being good at sports to move up in life. Why on earth would we want to aspire to that?
I was talking about how they make it big in track and field, its actually a beautiful system as all schools on the island compete against each other in a variety of events similar to olympics, If you attend school and are good at a sport within your age range and sex then you have a chance to compete at the national arena infront of thousands of people. I never said young kids needed to be good at sports to move up in life, i suck at sports and im doing fine :lol: :lol:
 
I was talking about how they make it big in track and field, its actually a beautiful system as all schools on the island compete against each other in a variety of events similar to olympics, If you attend school and are good at a sport within your age range and sex then you have a chance to compete at the national arena infront of thousands of people. I never said young kids needed to be good at sports to move up in life, i suck at sports and im doing fine :lol: :lol:
Fair enough, I misinterpreted from you saying it was fierce and tribal.
 
If that's her average time do you think it's fair to put her up against transgender athletes who are more powerful athletes and will have a better average?
Lets put it this way, I think there is a huge advantage to going through puberty as a male vs female when it comes to 100 m. To me Shelly Ann Fraser is the greatest sprint athlete to ever exists and she would still lose to the 15 year old boys that run in our local school sports competition.
 
Lets put it this way, I think there is a huge advantage to going through puberty as a male vs female when it comes to 100 m. To me Shelly Ann Fraser is the greatest sprint athlete to ever exists and she would still lose to the 15 year old boys that run in our local school sports competition.
And let me put it this way.. what if Usain Bolt decides to transition and wants to compete in women's division?
 
If that's her average time do you think it's fair to put her up against transgender athletes who are more powerful athletes and will have a better average?
Do you think it's fair for women to compete against other women?
 
And let me put it this way.. what if Usain Bolt decides to transition and wants to compete in women's division?
It would make a mockery of womens track and field, something as a Jamaican i feel very strongly about. I dont think anyone that transitioned to female after puberty should compete in female track events. Even with the current WA restrictions in place the test levels are just too high, the biological advantage is too much .I cant speak for other sports , but for track , going through puberty as a man is a lasting advantage. If you are a transwoman and merely doing similar times as cis women in track to me it shows you actually had no business being in track in the first place, its like putting an 18 year old to run against 10 year olds and they run similar times for some reason and we think...well that was totally fine.
 
From her athlete profile at the College of William & Mary…
Prep
Runner-up in the Emerging Elite Long Jump at the 2019 New Balance Outdoor Nationals ... New England Champion in the 100m in 2019 as well ... Named the Connecticut State Track Athlete of the Year following those performances ... As a senior in the winter of 2020, ranked No. 3 in the nation in the long jump ... Named a prep All-American by the NSAF ... Won 11 Connecticut State Championships at Canton ... Three of her state titles were in the open (all-divisions) category in addition to eight in her division ... Won the state open title in the 55m dash as senior in 2020 ... Also won the state open championship outdoors in the 100m in 2019, and indoors in the long jump in 2019 ... Won the divisional 100m in 2018 ... Added the 200m and 4x100m outdoor championships that year as well ... In 2019, won the long jump in her division both indoors and outdoors ... Swept the divisional titles in the 55m, 300m, and the long jump in 2020 ... Earned 16 all-state honors overall ... Member of the Rho Kappa Honor Society ... Won the Outstanding Academic Excellence Award from Canton.
Yeah, I was too lazy to look it up but thanks for saving me the work.
Needs tagline 'Shit at Gambling'.
I would take it but as above, someone already proved my point.

Btw. as I'm seeing the discussion. If transgender bring down the clusterfeck that is the US higher education and scholarship system then wohaaaa, even more power to them!
 
Sure, but I'm not a woman
Biologically you're not a woman should be the correct statement. There's nothing wrong with identifying and transitioning into a woman but your biologically makeup isn't that of a biological woman. Genetics cannot be changed. A biological man will always have the strength and power superior to a biological woman. Nothing can change that. A person can identify as whoever they want but it won't make them weaker or stronger.
 
It would make a mockery of womens track and field, something as a Jamaican i feel very strongly about. I dont think anyone that transitioned to female after puberty should compete in female track events. Even with the current WA restrictions in place the test levels are just too high, the biological advantage is too much .I cant speak for other sports , but for track , going through puberty as a man is a lasting advantage. If you are a transwoman and merely doing similar times as cis women in track to me it shows you actually had no business being in track in the first place, its like putting an 18 year old to run against 10 year olds and they run similar times for some reason and we think...well that was totally fine.
What that says is you don't genuinely consider trans-women, women. Usain Bolt had massive genetic, physical advantages over every other person he competed against. Should we have excluded him from competing?

I get the desire to protect cis women athletes, there is no easy or simple solution here, but not at the cost of denying an entire group of people their identity
 
Biologically you're not a woman should be the correct statement. There's nothing wrong with identifying and transitioning into a woman but your biologically makeup isn't that of a biological woman. Genetics cannot be changed. A biological man will always have the strength and power superior to a biological woman. Nothing can change that. A person can identify as whoever they want but it won't make them weaker or stronger.
I'm weaker and slower than Bolt. Should Bolt be forbidden from competing against me because of it?

And no. The correct statement is I'm not a woman. Biology has nothing to do with it

The next person to use the term biological woman is going on ignore. I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt here, though it's disheartening
 
One of the issues with
Biologically you're not a woman should be the correct statement. There's nothing wrong with identifying and transitioning into a woman but your biologically makeup isn't that of a biological woman. Genetics cannot be changed. A biological man will always have the strength and power superior to a biological woman. Nothing can change that. A person can identify as whoever they want but it won't make them weaker or stronger.
I would put a cavoite here, and say on average. You have lots of women stronger than certain men