It really is ridiculous.
Toni Kroos
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So Pep plans to turn Bayern's style into another style that they totally destroyed last season? Who will be Bayern's equivalent of Messi?
I think Bayern has the potential to be even better than Guardiola's Barca. I know they were already great last season and absolutely destroyed Barcelona but I still reckon Barca 09-11 was a stronger, more dominant side.
They have a little bit of everything - technique, physical strength, flair. It's just a perfect mixture. Barcelona was a side based around passing, pace and technique, this Bayern team has the potential to be a complete team capable of playing different styles of football. What's even more fearsome is that they are getting Lewandowski next year and anyone that Guardiola might like.
I agree that is the most likely personnel, but probably more of a conventional 4-2-3-1 and maybe swap Gotze/Muller for the flase 9 role
Neuer
Lahm - Boateng - Dante - Alaba
Martinez - Schweinsteiger
Muller - Thiago - Ribery
Götze
What does that they defeated Barca last season matter? Was Bayern of last season better than Barca of 2009-2011? I don't think so.
Barca was over-dependable on Messi only in the last two seasons. Bayern doesn't need a Messi to succeed on a similar style to that of Pep's Barca, they have plenty of available options in attack. Gotze scored 16 goals (exactly the same amount of goals Messi scored when he was the same age as Gotze) last season playing as No. 10 or as a winger. Playing as a striker and becoming a better player as he gets more experience and improve his game could easily mean that he will score a lot more goals for Bayern. He's one of the most talented players on the world, and if things go right he could succeed and score a ridiculous amount of goals on Messi's role.
Regardless what Pep said about small changes, it isn't hard to realize that Pep will play football his way, and he's right to do it. You can't get one of the best managers in the world (if not the best) and expect that he will sacrifice his ideas. Where is the point on doing so?
I don't think he does. He wants to add a little of that but not too much from what I gather. He won't destroy the foundations that are already in place. Besides, Bayern destroyed Tito's Barca, they wouldn't have done the same to the side that won the CL in 2011.
Muller or Götze will be their equivalent of Messi.
I don't think Götze is the right man for the false 9, he's a bit wasteful in front of goal. I'd put him out wide and stick to Muller in the centre, he's really clinical.
Yeah that is a fair enough view, toss up between the two of them but I prefer Muller deeper and Gotze has played there for Germany
There will be a lot of switching positions between the two of them probably, same with midfield. Ribery also won't be stuck to one flank. I also expect a lot of rotation so Robben, Kroos, Shaqiri, Mandzukic etc. will get plenty of playing time. Guardiola will have a plan B and C in place for this team, I wonder where Lewandowski will be in that plan - I doubt he'll be a first team player, more of an option for times when quick passing and stuff doesn't work and you need strength and directness.
As for Kroos, I'm sure he'll stay at Bayern for a very long time, he's one of their key players. He's far better defensively than Thiago for starters which is going to be important in big games.
Two different opinions here. And I don't think Muller or Gotze can come close to Messi's productivity. In the last 4 seasons, Messi scored 47, 53, 73, 60 (wiki) plus tons of assist. It is as close as over-dependable you can come in a player.
I don't think it was really Barcelona's style that they destroyed. It was Barcelona's complete lack of a defence and reliance on one, extremely unfit player.
Where are you getting that from?
I think Gotze is a more natural playmaker than goalscorer, laying deeper would suit him best. Muller's use of space and his movement coupled with his workrate and his goalscoring for me would make him the more natural choice of the two. Pep will be spoilt for choice i'm sure he is enjoying thinking up the different systems. He tried different formations at Barca also .
Whatever way you cut it, he has too many players for too few positions in an already successful team,squabbles and cliques developand it could be the fall of Rome all over again, he hoped rather feebly.
Nah, Robben, Ribery and Schweinsteiger are all knocking 30, he's building a front 6 to last until 2020 and beyond.
In fairness he has only built one player so far, but unfortunately I agree really, the bar looks like it will be set very high for the next while.
Lewandowski will arrive sooner or later plus he didn't have bad foundations to start with.
Lewandowski really is overkill, will be mental if they get him as well.
Well its very premature to say that it's what he's planning for the season proper, but apparently they've played a Barca-esque 433 (with a false 9 rather than a striker, and feckloads of CMs) in all their pre-season games so far.
5 central midfielders. I thought it was pretty obvious what I meant. Martinez, Schweinsteiger, Kroos, Gotze, Thiago, all central midfielders. That's not even counting Muller who will probably end up playing upfront.
No Kroos? Which is precisely why this signing makes no sense.
The new paradigm - you used to have two players for every position: starter and solid back up. Now you have two starters eg Kroos/Alcantara.
I agree with you, but he isn't starting in that team considering Pep made Thiago his number 1 priority
The two centre mids pick themselves (especially in the big games, against weaker opposition you could drop or move one and play Kroos in the middle) and then Ribery needs to play, he was their best player last season and he offers them natural width. Kroos is really only in contention for that AM spot but he is up against Thiago, and to a lesser extent Gotze.
If they signed Lewandowski though things would become even more mental
It's irritating because you can't even call Thiago a fecking idiot, because I imagine Pep must have promised him loads of playing time to get him there, and I'm sure he'll give it to him too. But you can't call Pep a fecking idiot because with that squad, and apparently constant best-in-the-world type additions, he's probably going to win everything all over again, and then you'd look like a moron.
And yet it doesn't seem fair to call Kroos a fecking idiot just for letting it happen.
And yet it doesn't seem fair to call Kroos a fecking idiot just for letting it happen.
I think you got it spot on at the end Brightonian. Pep even mentioned Mandzukic could play in defence because he is good in the air
Ripping up their entire setup to play tiki taka sounds completely bonkers to me... and they will never have Messi.
I think you got it spot on at the end Brightonian. Pep even mentioned Mandzukic could play in defence because he is good in the air
Ripping up their entire setup to play tiki taka sounds completely bonkers to me... and they will never have Messi.
And for the German NT, Bayern last season style would be more suitable for them; solid, powerful, with a bit flair here and there; instead of being a Spain Mk II.
You could be right. Although Brazil setup the same style as Bayern, against Spain in Confed Cup; and they're able to nullify Spain midfield.
Strangely, Pep going to Bayern could be exactly what Spain needed to stop the Germans being such strong opponents in the next WC. Key club screwed around, key players benched and played out of their comfort zone... From performance to transition mode... I would be livid if I were a German/Bayern supporter.
If it ain't broke...
Good to see Pep doing his usual football experiments. This time in a bigger sandbox with more toys.
I hope he signs Lewandoski. Considering the fact that he has once failed with Ibra, I can't see him bringing out the best in another similar player.
I hope he signs Lewandoski. Considering the fact that he has once failed with Ibra, I can't see him bringing out the best in another similar player.
Löw never tried to copy Bayern's or Dortmund's style. He already played a 4141 a few times (with Schweinsteiger as the holding midfielder, Kroos and Götze behind the striker, Podolski and Müller out wide and Klose upfront) and used Götze as a false 9 in recent games, so most likely Pep's work at Bayern will help the national team.
Pep isn't daft. He's not going to drastically change the best team in Europe. He's going to make little adjustments here and there to try and put his stamp on the team whist keeping their level the same. Even at barca, he didnt introduce tiki taka or anything. He made small adjustments which made them better, aided by the rise of messi and others of course.
He's got the dream job in Europe right now as far as I can see. Club on the rise, plenty of players at their peak, recent domination, great lure, a lot of funds.
He's got the dream job in Europe right now as far as I can see. Club on the rise, plenty of players at their peak, recent domination, great lure, a lot of funds.
Lewandowski and Ibrahimovic are not similar in playing style. They are both strikers that's about it.
It's not going to happen because Ribery and Muller are guaranteed starters IMO.
Agree and Schweinsteiger that leave at the most two places available in midfield.
He said in his first press conference that he doesn't intend to play a Barca style as he has a different style of players at Bayern and I'd agree with that. Don't see Bayern playing an all out tiki taka style, might be some similarities but I reckon same as last season.
For two of Kroos, Martinez and Thiago although Martinez can also play in defence. All will get plenty of games. I even expect Gustavo to start around 25-30 games in all competitions next season, in defence and midfield.
Read that article yesterday and I still don't understand why she counts Pizarro as a central attacking midfielder and Alaba as a defensive mid and left winger. Is there any need for idiotic hyperbole to prove her point?
If we play a 4141 and say it's possible that Müller/Götze will start as the one upfront a few times, we have 6 positions for those 12 players:
Martinez, Gustavo, Schweinsteiger, Kroos, Thiago, Götze, Ribery, Robben, Shaqiri, Müller, Mandzukic, Pizarro.
Pizarro won't mind if he doesn't start a lot, Shaqiri will probably get a few minutes at left back, Martinez as center back. We have 50-57 competitive games next season. Worst case, one of the above will be pissed with a lack of playing time and leave in January or after the season, that's it. If we look at the recent injury records of Schweinsteiger, Kroos, Götze, Robben and Pizarro most likely it won't be a problem at all.
And I wouldn't rule it out that Gustavo leaves this summer. He's most likely the one who doesn't fit in with Pep's ideas and he wants to play regularly to keep his starting spot for Brazil. He's not back in training yet because of the confed cup, so we don't know yet how Pep plans with him.
If we play a 4141 and say it's possible that Müller/Götze will start as the one upfront a few times, we have 6 positions for those 12 players:
Martinez, Gustavo, Schweinsteiger, Kroos, Thiago, Götze, Ribery, Robben, Shaqiri, Müller, Mandzukic, Pizarro.
Pizarro won't mind if he doesn't start a lot, Shaqiri will probably get a few minutes at left back, Martinez as center back. We have 50-57 competitive games next season. Worst case, one of the above will be pissed with a lack of playing time and leave in January or after the season, that's it. If we look at the recent injury records of Schweinsteiger, Kroos, Götze, Robben and Pizarro most likely it won't be a problem at all.
And I wouldn't rule it out that Gustavo leaves this summer. He's most likely the one who doesn't fit in with Pep's ideas and he wants to play regularly to keep his starting spot for Brazil. He's not back in training yet because of the confed cup, so we don't know yet how Pep plans with him.
so her point is: munich already has enough midfielders, and Thiago is shorter than Schweini, but taller than Lahm? Thanks for the insight, Susie.
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