Toni Kroos

[Godfather]

I know Goetze is very young but should he have got a chance somewhere.

Problem was that he was out injured for a long time this season. Otherwise I'm sure he would have played at some point

 

[Hellboy]

His fitness levels are not good at the moment, but remember against Real Madrid at Madrid he was pure class. He ran the show, and I'm sure he'll be one of the best. Defensively, he's not very disciplined but he has the tools to be a great attacking midfielder.

 

[duffer]

Too much of an old fashioned playmaker for the modern game at a top club. Isn't mobile enough to be a great #10 with only one striker and isn't good enough defensively to play as a central midfielder.

IMO he could be a star for a smaller club that builds around him but unless he changes his game he isn't good enough for a big club.

He's been a regular for Bayern Munich for a couple of years now. I'd say they are a big club.

 

[beergod]

He's been a regular for Bayern Munich for a couple of years now. I'd say they are a big club.

Sorry for the lack of clarity. I think he would have to settle for a role similar to his role for the German national team at most big clubs. I don't see many managers of big clubs molding their team around his limitations for him to have a starring role. Heynckes clearly has loved him as a player since their time at Leverkusen. But outside of Italy, how many big clubs use his type of player anymore?

I would give players such as Diego and Riquelme as similar examples to him, very good players but they have a limited number of clubs that would use them in their preferred role.

 

[Buchan]

I thought his loss for Bayern would be a bigger factor than it ultimately was last night. I really rate this lad and think he doesn't get the recognition he deserves in a team which contains Ribery, Robben, Lahm, Martinez, Muller, Alaba etc. I believe he makes Bayern tick and, although not as prolific in terms of goals as Mueller from a midfield role, I think he has more of an effect on the way his team plays. In that sense, I'd compare him to Iniesta, but obviously a bit away from the Spaniard's level at the moment.

I can see Guardiola moulding his attacking game around Kroos next season alá how he did with Iniesta at Barcelona. I think we'll see a markedly improved player in Kroos in the following seasons under Guardiola's stewardship. All in all, a pretty exciting time to be a Bayern supporter I think. They have the ingredients to dominate the German and European game for the next half decade.

 

[Fergus' son]

I thought his loss for Bayern would be a bigger factor than it ultimately was last night. I really rate this lad and think he doesn't get the recognition he deserves in a team which contains Ribery, Robben, Lahm, Martinez, Mueller, Alaba etc. I believe he makes Bayern tick and, although not as prolific in terms of goals as Mueller from a midfield role, I think he has more of an effect on the way his team plays. In that sense, I'd compare him to Iniesta, but obviously a bit away from the Spaniard's level at the moment.

I can see Guardiola moulding his attacking game around Kroos next season alá how he did with Iniesta at Barcelona. I think we'll see a markedly improved player in Kroos in the following seasons under Guardiola's stewardship. All in all, a pretty exciting time to be a Bayern supporter I think. They have the ingredients to dominate the German and European game for the next half decade.

I can tell you think he is a great player and I certainly agree, but I can't see how you thought him being missing would be a big factor last night. They have an abundance of quality in the team, many replacements to come in, and were playing a team that they are comfortably better than with or without Kroos.

 

[Balu]

Bayern missed him yesterday. We had problems with Juve's pressing in the first 20-25minutes and Schweinsteiger struggled heavily in the build-up. Kroos usually comes deep and helps keep possession, connect midfield and attack. It all worked out quite well in this game. Mainly because later on Ribery went inside and helped out centrally but I'm not convinced playing Müller behind the striker is a great idea against Dortmund or Barca.

I liked Jonathan Wilson's article about him last week. I don't agree with everything he wrote but there's some truth to it, imo.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2013/apr/04/playmaker-toni-kroos-mesut-ozil

 

[Ish]

Immense player. Didn't even know he was injured, but Bayern's stacked with midfield talent - Schweinsteiger, Martinez and, IMO, another underrated DM - Gustavo.

 

[elmo]

Bayern missed him yesterday. We had problems with Juve's pressing in the first 20-25minutes and Schweinsteiger struggled heavily in the build-up. Kroos usually comes deep and helps keep possession, connect midfield and attack. It all worked out quite well in this game. Mainly because later on Ribery went inside and helped out centrally but I'm not convinced playing Müller behind the striker is a great idea against Dortmund or Barca.

I liked Jonathan Wilson's article about him last week. I don't agree with everything he wrote but there's some truth to it, imo.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2013/apr/04/playmaker-toni-kroos-mesut-ozil

Am I the only one who thought that the description Wilson used to describe Kroos sounds exactly like Carrick's role for us?

 

[Ryan's Beard]

Am I the only one who thought that the description Wilson used to describe Kroos sounds exactly like Carrick's role for us?

From what I've seen of Kroos I'm not sure he's quite as defensively reliable as Carrick is for us (at least in terms of interceptions etc) although that could be bullshit on my part.

Saying that though he's very young and that side of his game can only improve with experience, should he want it to.

 

[NoLogo]

They definitely missed him yesterday and their game with Müller in the center in really different to when he his playing there.

I think yesterday was actually the first time I really noticed how important he really is for Bayerns build up play.

 

[Suedesi]

I thought his loss for Bayern would be a bigger factor than it ultimately was last night. I really rate this lad and think he doesn't get the recognition he deserves in a team which contains Ribery, Robben, Lahm, Martinez, Mueller, Alaba etc. I believe he makes Bayern tick and, although not as prolific in terms of goals as Mueller from a midfield role, I think he has more of an effect on the way his team plays. In that sense, I'd compare him to Iniesta, but obviously a bit away from the Spaniard's level at the moment.

I can see Guardiola moulding his attacking game around Kroos next season alá how he did with Iniesta at Barcelona. I think we'll see a markedly improved player in Kroos in the following seasons under Guardiola's stewardship. All in all, a pretty exciting time to be a Bayern supporter I think. They have the ingredients to dominate the German and European game for the next half decade.

So bizarre. You contend he doesn't get the recognition he deserves and mention a bunch of different players, neglecting the most important player at Bayern and the most similar in role, Bastian Schweinsteiger.

As for Guardiola moulding Bayen's attacking game around Kroos next season alá how he did with Iniesta at Barcelona you're just talking bollocks.

 

[Suedesi]

Bayern missed him yesterday. We had problems with Juve's pressing in the first 20-25minutes and Schweinsteiger struggled heavily in the build-up. Kroos usually comes deep and helps keep possession, connect midfield and attack. It all worked out quite well in this game. Mainly because later on Ribery went inside and helped out centrally but I'm not convinced playing Müller behind the striker is a great idea against Dortmund or Barca.

I liked Jonathan Wilson's article about him last week. I don't agree with everything he wrote but there's some truth to it, imo.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2013/apr/04/playmaker-toni-kroos-mesut-ozil

When's he back? Him and Mandzukic out (for the first semi) are a big loss to Bayern

 

[Buchan]

So bizarre. You contend he doesn't get the recognition he deserves and mention a bunch of different players, neglecting the most important player at Bayern and the most similar in role, Bastian Schweinsteiger.

As for Guardiola moulding Bayen's attacking game around Kroos next season alá how he did with Iniesta at Barcelona you're just talking bollocks.

feck me, have you any comprehension of the English language? Have you any idea what the use of the abbreviation "etc." entails? I wasn't referring to an exclusive list that Schweinsteiger wasn't part of. Settle down, precious.

As for your second point, care to elaborate why you think this is bollocks? We all know Guardiola likes his midfield to dominate possession and his attacking midfielders to be the key men in his system. Iniesta was excellent in that role at Barcelona, and still is. I also stated that Kroos has a long way to go to be at the Spaniard's level, which is undoubtedly true. Kroos' main strength is his excellent passing in the final third, which is far superior to others in his position. Guardiola would be a fool to not utilise this to his advantage, and I think he'll even go one better, and mould his attacking game around Kroos' instinctive talents.

Let's just wait and see though before we claim others are "talking bollocks".

 

[Balu]

When's he back? Him and Mandzukic out (for the first semi) are a big loss to Bayern

Out for 6 weeks, so probably won't play again this season.

 

[Blackwidow]

It's a loss - not because the solution with Müller is worse when Schweinsteiger and Martinez adapt - but we loose variability with it.

The system with Kroos as CAM and Müller on the right had all kind of advantages. You could change from a very deep 4-3-3 to a near 4-4-2 system during the match without changing players - depending on what you were in need of - and when all were in form (what was not all season - lately Kroos has not shown the same form like at the beginning of the season) it was absolutely great. That made it really versatile.

We had a balance for both sides - even if we in some matches overloaded the right - in others the left side. In combination with Lahm Müller played the full right winger - and we had a part-time-hanging striker in Müller and a sometimes in the box heading Schweinsteiger when we needed to attack...

Now it is different. A Gustavo-Martinez-Schweinsteiger midfield is not really an option - only for later stages in which you want to keep a result. So the only option is the 4-2-3-1 with Robben on the right wing and Müller as hanging striker - a system that can work really great - but there is adjustments to be made. Müller ain't the one that plays deep - he would be wasted there - but he can connect the attack very well, help out left and right and press very good, probably better than Kroos because he has a higher workrate and is faster. Schweinsteiger has to play deeper and more to the left side again - Lahm has to play deeper, too.

The real questionmark in it is Robben. If he finds his shooting form - or if he finds the right point to pass - everything is great. Müller sometimes has a bad day - like yesterday - on a good one he would have had 2 assists and two goals - yesterday he killed his situations. He had the good situations all season and especially when the team really needed it. Robben just had one really good moment - and that was one when he got no time to think in the Cup semi finall against Dortmund. Else he only was fine when the opponent really was a weak one and he had a lot where you could just shake your head...

--------------------

What Guardiola wants is fully open to now. Bayern just ain't Barca. And what is good for Barca might not be good for Bayern... We will see...

 

[Buchan]

I thought his loss for Bayern would be a bigger factor than it ultimately was last night. I really rate this lad and think he doesn't get the recognition he deserves in a team which contains Ribery, Robben, Lahm, Martinez, Mueller, Alaba etc. I believe he makes Bayern tick and, although not as prolific in terms of goals as Mueller from a midfield role, I think he has more of an effect on the way his team plays. In that sense, I'd compare him to Iniesta, but obviously a bit away from the Spaniard's level at the moment.

I can see Guardiola moulding his attacking game around Kroos next season alá how he did with Iniesta at Barcelona. I think we'll see a markedly improved player in Kroos in the following seasons under Guardiola's stewardship. All in all, a pretty exciting time to be a Bayern supporter I think. They have the ingredients to dominate the German and European game for the next half decade.

I posted this in April before the Gotze and Thiago signings. Will he find it difficult to get adequate game-time now, I wonder? I firmly believed he'd prosper under Guardiola and that the Spaniard would build his attack around Kroos, but with those two new signings, somebody is going to be disappointed.

I wonder could Kroos be tempted away from Bayern now? He'd be a wonderful acquisition for whomever would sign him. Class player.

 

[Baxter]

Won't happen. Certainly not this year. Rummenigge and Sammer wouldn't allow it.

 

[Rossa]

Shit, I had forgotten about the signing of Götze before I thought it would be nigh on impossible for Thiago to get game time in that midfield. What is Guardiola thinking with signing Thiago, and more importantly what is Thiago thinking with? Guradiola should get one or two world class strikers. If Suarez wasn't such a cnut, he would be a good signing, as would Rooney.

 

[JaffyJoe]

I posted this in April before the Gotze and Thiago signings. Will he find it difficult to get adequate game-time now, I wonder? I firmly believed he'd prosper under Guardiola and that the Spaniard would build his attack around Kroos, but with those two new signings, somebody is going to be disappointed.

I wonder could Kroos be tempted away from Bayern now? He'd be a wonderful acquisition for whomever would sign him. Class player.

He's the main person I think of Gotze will be better and Guardiola wanted Thiago. Hard to see where he fits in.

 

[Brightonian]

Let's have him. Most likely of all the Bayern mids to lose game time to Thiago.

 

[Bestie07]

Would want to see what plans Pep has for him, and playing for Bayern gives an almost automatic position in the German NT, so I doubt he would move anyway this season.

 

[JaffyJoe]

Guys Thiago playing time will have been discussed BEFORE the transfer. He would have stayed at Barca if that was the case. If they play a midfield 3 he will play a lot.

 

[forevrared]

Kroos would seem to be the odd man out with Gotze and Thiago joining. Doubt he'd leave Germany, but I'd love to have him.

 

[JaffyJoe]

I agree with you the new boys will play it will be one of the older players who will suffer. If I was Kroos I would be nervous. Robben is back on the bench imo. What Guardiola does will be interesting. I would love to see that team here or in Spain. Too good for the Bundesliga no offence.

 

[Buchan]

Won't happen. Certainly not this year. Rummenigge and Sammer wouldn't allow it.

I concur.

But somebody in that Bayern squad is going to lose out, and I highly doubt it's going to be their new £30 million signing from Dortmund, nor Guardiola's new pet ("It's Thiago or nobody"). I think Kroos could be marginalised slightly with these two new signings, and he could be tempted away.

 

[Ole's_toe_poke]

No chance. Next.

 

[Baxter]

I'd imagine the main players that will be in trouble will be Boateng, Shaqiri, Muller and Martinez if he gets put back to CB. I'd imagine they'd do more to keep the German players happier though.

 

[JaffyJoe]

I'd imagine the main players that will be in trouble will be Boateng, Shaqiri, Muller and Martinez if he gets put back to CB. I'd imagine they'd do more to keep the German players happier though.

Muller will be fine he's a startere and he's too good. I was thinking Martinez at cb but they would lose his steel. Agreed keep the German core.

 

[RDCR07]

I'd imagine the main players that will be in trouble will be Boateng, Shaqiri, Muller and Martinez if he gets put back to CB. I'd imagine they'd do more to keep the German players happier though.

Muller in trouble? Did you see the season he had last year? And Shaqiri is their future wing player. He aint going anywhere. Boateng can play back up as a full back too. They must have the most versatile team ever. Almost every player they have can play in 2 to 3 positions.

 

[Sarni]

Neuer
Lahm Boateng Dante Alaba
Martinez
Ribery Schweinsteiger Thiago Götze
Muller

With Martinez occassionally stepping into defence which opens up a space for Kroos in midfield. He'll also play when Schweinsteiger or Thiago are rested.

Kroos will play at least 40 games next season.

 

[Baxter]

Muller in trouble? Did you see the season he had last year? And Shaqiri is their future wing player. He aint going anywhere. Boateng can play back up as a full back too. They must have the most versatile team ever. Almost every player they have can play in 2 to 3 positions.

Yeah I know, but just in terms of fitting in players. Perhaps trouble would be the wrong word, but I don't think he'll be happy if he doesn't play every week because of the 2 big signings.

 

[RDCR07]

Yeah I know, but just in terms of fitting in players. Perhaps trouble would be the wrong word, but I don't think he'll be happy if he doesn't play every week because of the 2 big signings.

He had a better season that both of them though. In my opinion he should start again for Bayern because he has earned it. Pep would be stupid to do otherwise.

 

[Sarni]

Yeah I know, but just in terms of fitting in players. Perhaps trouble would be the wrong word, but I don't think he'll be happy if he doesn't play every week because of the 2 big signings.

He'll play every week, up front, behind a striker or out wide. He'll be fine, Thiago's arrival won't affect him.

 

[The Neviller]

Guys Thiago playing time will have been discussed BEFORE the transfer. He would have stayed at Barca if that was the case. If they play a midfield 3 he will play a lot.

They'll need to play a midfield 5 to start with all their big name midfielders.

 

[JaffyJoe]

They'll need to play a midfield 5 to start with all their big name midfielders.

It's easy for some ey?

 

[NoLogo]

They'll need to play a midfield 5 to start with all their big name midfielders.

Well so far it looks like that's exactly what they are doing considering that they have played a 4-1-4-1/4-5-1 for most of their pre-season games.

Hell I won't even put it past Guardiola to play a 3-7-0 at some stage next season. Pep loves midfielders, this much should be clear from his Barca days.

 

[Sarni]

They'll need to play a midfield 5 to start with all their big name midfielders.

Pretty much all top clubs play with 5 midfielders (3 central and 2 wide) and 1 forward these days.

 

[Brightonian]

They'll need to play a midfield 5 to start with all their big name midfielders.

And even to make that work they'd have to either a) not play a striker, b) drop Ribery or c) play Martinez permanently in defence, which he specifically stated that he doesn't want to do any more.

And that's assuming Robben is dropped full-time (which might not sit well with him given that he's only 29).

Lots of shuffling just to fit Guardiola's pet project into a side which already has a similar player, German and home-grown.

 

[Brightonian]

Start with all their central or attacking midfield players on the pitch, in a conventional 4231:

Def Def Def Def
Martinez Schweinsteiger
Gotze Thiago Kroos
Striker

To make room for Ribery, push Martinez back into CD:

Def Def Martinez Def
Schweinsteiger
Gotze Thiago Kroos Ribery
Striker

To make room for Muller, stop playing a striker and use Gotze as a Barca-esque false 9:

Def Def Mart. Def
Schweinsteiger
Thiago Kroos
Muller Gotze Ribery

Given what we know about Pep as a manager, and have seen in Bayern's pre-season so far, that probably makes the most sense. But you've still had to play Martinez in a position he doesn't like, drop Robben completely at the age of 29, bench Gustavo more firmly than ever, bench Mandzukic completely, and make a mockery of plans to buy Lewandowski next season. And all to move away from the most dominant formula to emerge since Barca's tiki-taka came of age in 2009.