Thoughts on Tuchel as a potential United manager?

Would you appoint Thomas Tuchel as the next Manchester United manager?

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romufc said:
Actually, Dortmund was hard? Let me remind you something.

Klopp won the league with the Dortmund team and finished 2nd, Tuchel came in and did not improve it, actually made it worse. Ofcourse no one will bring that up.

Chelsea side without talent? That summer they spent over 250m with a squad of:

Rudiger - Probably one of the best CB atm
James - One of the best RB's
Kante - one of the best DM's
Thiago Silva
Chilwel
Mount
Havertz
Werner

But yeah keep your narrative running.
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Havertz and Werner were considered flops. Lukaku was a bust. Kante was excellent, Jorginho great, Mount outstanding.

I don’t think despite their talent they were favored to win the CL.

We spent 250m, twice, with Ten Hag, and just finished 8th with a negative goal difference. Tuchel won a CL for feck sake. The beat Real to get to the finals. Their starting front 3 were Mount, Havertz and Werner.

‘we literally have a shot at a decent, accomplished manager/coach, and mate, you’re comparing him to Klopp. Managers like Pep, Klopp, Ancelotti don’t grow on trees. It would be great to get one, but in the meantime, we need to achieve a certain level of success to allow us to invest in the squad in this new age of FFP.
 
VP89 said:
Eh? As I've already said, my gripe is with De Zerbis decision to air this publically. Ten hag is not someone who does this. He adapts to the shit show and keeps silent.

Also ten hag agreed on a structure that he knew before he joined, with terms agreed. De Zerbi did the same. He can't just change it on the fly and cry about it because they aren't giving in for a winter window where it's tough to do proper business.
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Ten Hag has been crying about injuries all season!! He bought Martinez, Malacia, Antony, Mount, Casemiro, Eriksen, etc. He can’t complain about transfer dealings because they are his transfer dealings!!! De Zerbi at least isn’t involved in transfers.
 
DSG said:
Ten Hag has been crying about injuries all season!! He bought Martinez, Malacia, Antony, Mount, Casemiro, Eriksen, etc. He can’t complain about transfer dealings because they are his transfer dealings!!! De Zerbi at least isn’t involved in transfers.
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You do know the difference between pointing to bad luck with injuries and openly mouthing off against your boss and airing dirty laundry in public, right?
 
Is Tuchel the perfect Man United manager? No
Is Tuchel the best manager available? Yes
Is Tuchel better than Ten Hag? I believe so
 
Leão said:
Is Tuchel the perfect Man United manager? No
Is Tuchel the best manager available? Yes
Is Tuchel better than Ten Hag? I believe so
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Sure on paper but this lacks some detail. I think the context also matters. What the remit of the job is, how the technical staff that are probably going to outlive a manager see things as far as style and building a stable relationship with the manager.

Tuchel is only the best man for the job if his performance in the role matches his CV, and that's going to be partly determined by how well he fits in to the culture that they're going to build and how he manages up, not just on how good his tactics and man management are.
 
DSG said:
This is openly badmouthing your boss?

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5247352/2024/02/03/roberto-de-zerbi-brighton-transfer-frustration/

Seems pretty mild to me… Ten Hag is banning journalists for asking legitimate questions. Once again, double standard.
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When asked about Brighton’s midfield resources, De Zerbi said: “I spoke with the club, but they decided a different way.”

“I want to reach the highest target we can and my focus is very strong on the target. It’s not important if I had a different expectation. Everyone can think what they want.”

^ effectively saying the club lacks ambition.

And Ten Hag didn't ban journalists because of the questions they asked. The club banned journalists becsuse they are normally turned to for comment or context ahead of certain stories and three or four journalists failed to do this. Again, not the same as openly saying you're not on the same wavelength as your owners.

Saying you're at odds with your owners publically is generally a really dumb move and always ends up with a sack. I don't get why we are still debating this, and how it's relevant to ten hag on totally different issues.
 
VP89 said:
When asked about Brighton’s midfield resources, De Zerbi said: “I spoke with the club, but they decided a different way.”

“I want to reach the highest target we can and my focus is very strong on the target. It’s not important if I had a different expectation. Everyone can think what they want.”

^ effectively saying the club lacks ambition.

And Ten Hag didn't ban journalists because of the questions they asked. The club banned journalists becsuse they are normally turned to for comment or context ahead of certain stories and three or four journalists failed to do this. Again, not the same as openly saying you're not on the same wavelength as your owners.

Saying you're at odds with your owners publically is generally a really dumb move and always ends up with a sack. I don't get why we are still debating this, and how it's relevant to ten hag on totally different issues.
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It’s a boring thing to argue about frankly. Ten Hag said basically the same thing this January, Rangnick the same thing when we didn’t buy a striker. I find it bizarre that you’ve latched on to this particular comment.
 
DSG said:
It’s a boring thing to argue about frankly. Ten Hag said basically the same thing this January, Rangnick the same thing when we didn’t buy a striker. I find it bizarre that you’ve latched on to this particular comment.
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Lets move on. There's a whole deep dive from athletic which shows how de Zerbi couldn't find tune himself to the Brighton owners, I think he has some maturing to do before being considered for a top job. He's also been on the end of smashings himself, which despite injuries, is still not putting himself in good stead for a top role.
 
DSG said:
Havertz and Werner were considered flops. Lukaku was a bust. Kante was excellent, Jorginho great, Mount outstanding.

I don’t think despite their talent they were favored to win the CL.

We spent 250m, twice, with Ten Hag, and just finished 8th with a negative goal difference. Tuchel won a CL for feck sake. The beat Real to get to the finals. Their starting front 3 were Mount, Havertz and Werner.

‘we literally have a shot at a decent, accomplished manager/coach, and mate, you’re comparing him to Klopp. Managers like Pep, Klopp, Ancelotti don’t grow on trees. It would be great to get one, but in the meantime, we need to achieve a certain level of success to allow us to invest in the squad in this new age of FFP.
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You can swear all you like... Tuchel didn't win the CL in his full season, he took over and made them defensively solid, new manager bounce. Di Matteo has done the same feat.
 
romufc said:
You can swear all you like... Tuchel didn't win the CL in his full season, he took over and made them defensively solid, new manager bounce. Di Matteo has done the same feat.
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Their defence and overall play improved considerably as well. That part, at least, has nothing to do with a bounce.
 
Lyng said:
Their defence and overall play improved considerably as well. That part, at least, has nothing to do with a bounce.
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Which is why he won it taking over half way and in his full season finished 3rd with no trophy.
 
Lyng said:
Their defence and overall play improved considerably as well. That part, at least, has nothing to do with a bounce.
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Yeah they played 5 at the back which doesn't work here.
 
VP89 said:
Yeah they played 5 at the back which doesn't work here.
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No but it worked there. He has played different setups at other clubs.
The reason he is the ideal choice right now is specifically because he isn't tied to a specific setup or needs specific players to perform.
 
Lyng said:
No but it worked there. He has played different setups at other clubs.
The reason he is the ideal choice right now is specifically because he isn't tied to a specific setup or needs specific players to perform.
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He played a different set up at Bayern has not once looked convincing there, finishing the season 3rd in a 2 horse race and getting knocked out of the domestic Cup from a German team in the 3rs division. He certainly didn't perform there.

This is before we consider how easily he's perceived to fall out with his owners.
 
VP89 said:
He played a different set up at Bayern has not once looked convincing there, finishing the season 3rd in a 2 horse race and getting knocked out of the domestic Cup from a German team in the 3rs division. He certainly didn't perform there.

This is before we consider how easily he's perceived to fall out with his owners.
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Please name the two horses.
 
stefan92 said:
Please name the two horses.
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Every season the Bundasliga title race is Bayern and one other.

Many seasons it's just Bayern walking it.

This season it was Bayern and Leverkusen, last year it was Bayern and Dortmund (with Tuchel bloody fortunate it was bottled on the final day, given it was out of his hands).
 
VP89 said:
Every season the Bundasliga title race is Bayern and one other.

Many seasons it's just Bayern walking it.

This season it was Bayern and Leverkusen, last year it was Bayern and Dortmund (with Tuchel bloody fortunate it was bottled on the final day, given it was out of his hands).
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Forgetting Stuttgart here.
 
Lyng said:
Forgetting Stuttgart here.
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I'm not. Hence, he managed to finish third in a two horse race.

Bayern haven't finished 3rd in how many seasons? It's been almost 15 years if I'm not mistaken. And he led them to their first trophyless season in 24 years.
 
VP89 said:
I'm not. Hence, he managed to finish third in a two horse race.

Bayern haven't finished 3rd in how many seasons? It's been almost 15 years if I'm not mistaken. And he led them to their first trophyless season in 24 years.
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Stuttgart had their best ever season.
 
Lyng said:
Stuttgart had their best ever season.
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What's your point? That vindicates Tuchel form being broadly shit for 2 seasons at Bayern? It can't be other clubs were really good with far less resources and he gets a pass.
 
Tuchel…. 3 Champions League semifinals with 3 different clubs in 5 years
 
VP89 said:
What's your point? That vindicates Tuchel form being broadly shit for 2 seasons at Bayern? It can't be other clubs were really good with far less resources and he gets a pass.
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The point is that it's a bit weird to call it a "two horse race" after the season. Would you have claimed it to be a two horse race between Leverkusen and Bayern before the season? I bet you wouldn't. So either you have to acknowledge all teams involved in the race after the fact, or you have to base your statement on pre season expectations.

It would have been sensible to expect a two horse race between Dortmund and Bayern for this season, but those two finished third and fifth. This whole concept of a "two horse race" just doesn't make much sense.
 
VP89 said:
What's your point? That vindicates Tuchel form being broadly shit for 2 seasons at Bayern? It can't be other clubs were really good with far less resources and he gets a pass.
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He did win the league last season and the points total this season was improved and would have been enough to win the title if not for two teams having absolute freak seasons. I'd also argue that Leverkusens team this season was of overall higher quality than Bayerns apart from a few players. On top of that Bayern have had some very bad injuries. Injuries that where the main reason for them going out of the Champions league.
Surely injuries are an excuse for Tuchel when they get used all the time for Ten Hag.
 
stefan92 said:
The point is that it's a bit weird to call it a "two horse race" after the season. Would you have claimed it to be a two horse race between Leverkusen and Bayern before the season? I bet you wouldn't. So either you have to acknowledge all teams involved in the race after the fact, or you have to base your statement on pre season expectations.

It would have been sensible to expect a two horse race between Dortmund and Bayern for this season, but those two finished third and fifth. This whole concept of a "two horse race" just doesn't make much sense.
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It's not weird to call it a two horse race at all. The Bundasliga has always been Bayern and 1 other in the top 2 for the past 15ish years.

What has the shortest gap been between 1st and 3rd in ending points and what season was that? Then maybe we can consider a notion how it may not be a 2 horse league (or even a 1 horse league).
 
Lyng said:
He did win the league last season and the points total this season was improved and would have been enough to win the title if not for two teams having absolute freak seasons. I'd also argue that Leverkusens team this season was of overall higher quality than Bayerns apart from a few players. On top of that Bayern have had some very bad injuries. Injuries that where the main reason for them going out of the Champions league.
Surely injuries are an excuse for Tuchel when they get used all the time for Ten Hag.
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If you monitored Bayern last season youl know resting on Tuchel winning a league last season is far from conviction of success.

He has not once looked comfortable in the Bayern role and he joined at the same time as Ten Hag.
 
VP89 said:
It's not weird to call it a two horse race at all. The Bundasliga has always been Bayern and 1 other in the top 2 for the past 15ish years.

What has the shortest gap been between 1st and 3rd in ending points and what season was that? Then maybe we can consider a notion how it may not be a 2 horse league (or even a 1 horse league).
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I'd actually go with the one horse league. Because you always can expect Bayern to be involved in the title race, but you never know who will step up to challenge them.
 
stefan92 said:
I'd actually go with the one horse league. Because you always can expect Bayern to be involved in the title race, but you never know who will step up to challenge them.
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Ok go with that if you want. My overall point is Tuchel fecked it quite hard.
 
VP89 said:
I'm not. Hence, he managed to finish third in a two horse race.

Bayern haven't finished 3rd in how many seasons? It's been almost 15 years if I'm not mistaken. And he led them to their first trophyless season in 24 years.
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Finishing third clearly only happened because they took their foot off the pedal once they realised they couldn't win the title. It's easy to say that that's a bad sign on Tuchel, but I remember we did the same a couple of times under Fergie. When you are so used to winning there really isn't much difference between 2nd or 3rd.
 
MadDogg said:
Finishing third clearly only happened because they took their foot off the pedal once they realised they couldn't win the title. It's easy to say that that's a bad sign on Tuchel, but I remember we did the same a couple of times under Fergie. When you are so used to winning there really isn't much difference between 2nd or 3rd.
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They aren't used to winning. They finished trophyless. The season prior they skimmed the title thanks to Dortmund bottling the final game, but they were knocked out early in the domestic cup then too.
 
VP89 said:
They aren't used to winning. They finished trophyless. The season prior they skimmed the title thanks to Dortmund bottling the final game, but they were knocked out early in the domestic cup then too.
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I'd accept that if you had similar standards for Ten Hag.
 
Lyng said:
I'd accept that if you had similar standards for Ten Hag.
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I do. That's why I think he failed in the league and champions league too.
But he won a cup and tuchel didn't.

Both still had bad seasons, but going back to the initial point I quoted you on, his Chelsea style that worked for a bit was 5 at the back, that wouldn't fly here. You said he can adapt with systems, and I pointed at how his Bayern system led to a terrible stint at the club.
 
MadDogg said:
Finishing third clearly only happened because they took their foot off the pedal once they realised they couldn't win the title. It's easy to say that that's a bad sign on Tuchel, but I remember we did the same a couple of times under Fergie. When you are so used to winning there really isn't much difference between 2nd or 3rd.
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I guess the same must happened when he finished 3rd at Chelsea too?

The point is he finished 19 points of the title. You can't compare Fergie to Tuchel because Fergie won 13 PL titles competing against the likes of Chelsea, City, Arsenal.

Tuchel has only won league titles at PSG. Everywhere else he has won a major trophy, league or CL, he has taken over the club half way through a season and relying on a new manager bounce. Once he gets a pre season and has to shape his squad and style of play, he has failed everywhere.
 
romufc said:
I wouldn't blame Tuchel for being frustrated but lets look at the history of Manutd managers after they have left, what do they all have to say:

I wanted x player but never got him. I was promised y but never happened.

LVG thought manutd can sign anyone, has issues with how the club is a commercial club not football
Jose was upset that he wasnt backed with a CB and players he didnt rate were not sold
Ole wanted Grealish, Rice, Jude, Haaland, got Cavani, Ronaldo, Amad, Pellestri, Donny
ETH wanted ST CB last summer - got one and didnt get to sell McTominay and Maguire.

Now all these managers have had the same issue with Manutd. Tuchel fell out with Mainz and Chelsea over transfers, it will happen the same at United.
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You shouldn't blame the club for LVG being unrealistic, I read the interview where he said he thought we could get anyone and he wanted Muller! That's just nonsense, granted we have had major issues in recruitment, only a fool would argue against that, but LVG is one of the primary reasons we no longer have squad depth after he sold players like Evans, Welbeck and Nani then replaced them with worse options.

The reason Woodward failed, in addition to his character flaws, was that he trusted managers like LVG and Jose too much in recruitment. Jose fell out with Woodward after the latter pushed back on signing a 3rd CB in the 3 consecutive summers but you will never hear a manager admit that he got a signing wrong. We didn't have a structure or a transfer committee, Jose relied heavily on his Portuguese connections and our transfer strategy upto Ineos was heavily manager led.
 
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