Thoughts on Tuchel as a potential United manager?

[romufc]

Sorry, got my timeline mixed up. We were competing at the top at the turn of the year, then were beset by the most injuries in the entire league plus the war/sanctions plus Lukaku throwing a fit.

I take your point that you don't trust him with regard to league results (personally during his time at Chelsea I'd blame that more on our lack of a goal threat more than anything Tuchel did) - but I don't see how at the very minimum he isn't marginally better than EtH in the league and comfortably better in cups?

Also if you want to install a structure of accountability and if you want someone to vet the intelligence of director hires, Tuchel is also a no brainer.

I find it interesting that you using injuries, Lukaku, sanctions as an excuse but Ten Hag cant use Sancho, Takeover, Injuries as an excuse.

So Tuchel being 10 points of the top at the turn of the year is there or there abouts, so what would you call Ten Hag 10 points of top last season at the turn of the year? A failure?

Tuchel got into cup finals with Chelsea and lost to Liverpool and won the CL. Ten Hag got into 3 cup finals in 2 seasons and won 2.

 

[DJ_21]

This ain’t ever happening

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

I find it interesting that you using injuries, Lukaku, sanctions as an excuse but Ten Hag cant use Sancho, Takeover, Injuries as an excuse.

So Tuchel being 10 points of the top at the turn of the year is there or there abouts, so what would you call Ten Hag 10 points of top last season at the turn of the year? A failure?

Tuchel got into cup finals with Chelsea and lost to Liverpool and won the CL. Ten Hag got into 3 cup finals in 2 seasons and won 2.

Of course he can, there are mitigating circumstances for everything. The difference is that despite those circumstances, Tuchel finished 3rd and EtH finished 8th.

 

[romufc]

Of course he can, there are mitigating circumstances for everything. The difference is that despite those circumstances, Tuchel finished 3rd and EtH finished 8th.

No the fact that you said Chelsea were there abouts turn of the year 10 points behind the leaders, United last season were the same, but you want to ignore it?

Also Tuchel had 1 season he finished 3rd and started the next season and was sacked after his poor start to the league campaign, again emphasising my point that he struggles to challenge for a title.

P.S here is your absences and injuries post Jan.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/chelsea-fc/ausfallzeiten/verein/631?reldata=GB1&2021

it wasnt that bad.

 

[Lash]

No, I am not saying we need a manager who has done that. We can either go for experience (Tuchel) or young up and coming managers, neither are any good at the moment.

I have already said, Tuchel is a very very good manager to get new manager bounce, he has great ability to take over half way through a season and save a season, he cant start a season and challenge.

Hoeness, Alonso are all good names but only have 1 season to show for it, we need more data on them.

We are not a big club either, we have not competed for a league title in 11 years, we dont have a right to just compete with no structure, no foresight. Tuchel may get you 2nd and then 5th which is poor because its what Ten Hag has done, got us 3rd and 8th.

Why can't he? Supposedly the structure is in charge of defining the transfer strategy, he is just the tactician and coach - which he's good at. We have a good enough squad, with good additions to be back up towards the top of the table. No one is going to come in and have us challenging for the league, but Tuchel would have us higher in the league than anyone else we could get, because he's done it at several clubs.

We are a big club. We have arguably 2 of the biggest teenage talents in the league (Mainoo and Garnacho), some very good players with lots of potential (Hojlund and Amad as examples) and some high level players (Bruno, Dalot, Martinez, Mount, Maguire, Rashford, Shaw, Onana). That is a very solid base of a squad that a lot of teams would love to have. It needs to be molded to fit the new style (whatever that might be), but Arsenal had "no right" to compete, yet they did. Everyone tells me our standards have been suppressed and we should be doing better than 8th, but when it comes to challenging again, we're shit and are rightfully 8th?

I feel like your success criteria is very shallow and no has no context. Liverpool challenged this year, but ended up 9 points behind City and 3rd. Would that be a bad season next year in your eyes?

 

[stefan92]

Of course he can, there are mitigating circumstances for everything. The difference is that despite those circumstances, Tuchel finished 3rd and EtH finished 8th.

And in top his Chelsea team as you mentioned mainly finished only this bad due to bad finishing while overall playing well.

There is just no comparison to the incoherent stuff we saw United play in most of the matches this season.

 

[aganley]

And in top his Chelsea team as you mentioned mainly finished only this bad due to bad finishing while overall playing well.

There is just no comparison to the incoherent stuff we saw United play in most of the matches this season.

So fans want the same Tuchel who has flirted with every club available. Got sacked from or fell out with the board at Dortmund - Chealse - PSG and finished 3rd in a one-house race with Munich. A manager who has never stayed at a club to complete a single project. Not even Todd Beehly is that stupid to bring him back.

 

[romufc]

Why can't he? Supposedly the structure is in charge of defining the transfer strategy, he is just the tactician and coach - which he's good at. We have a good enough squad, with good additions to be back up towards the top of the table. No one is going to come in and have us challenging for the league, but Tuchel would have us higher in the league than anyone else we could get, because he's done it at several clubs.

We are a big club. We have arguably 2 of the biggest teenage talents in the league (Mainoo and Garnacho), some very good players with lots of potential (Hojlund and Amad as examples) and some high level players (Bruno, Dalot, Martinez, Mount, Maguire, Rashford, Shaw, Onana). That is a very solid base of a squad that a lot of teams would love to have. It needs to be molded to fit the new style (whatever that might be), but Arsenal had "no right" to compete, yet they did. Everyone tells me our standards have been suppressed and we should be doing better than 8th, but when it comes to challenging again, we're shit and are rightfully 8th?

I feel like your success criteria is very shallow and no has no context. Liverpool challenged this year, but ended up 9 points behind City and 3rd. Would that be a bad season next year in your eyes?

I have mates who are Liverpool fans, quite a few actually and they have all said they wouldn't count this season as they challenged.

The problem I have with Tuchel is, he is in the Jose Mourinho cloth of managers, he will fall out with our players, we know how Manutd players operate.

We shouldn't be 8th that is for sure but we also had very bad luck for injuries, everytime we have a player come back, someone else gets injured.

I am not saying that is an excuse for the dross football we played because I believe that regardless of injuries, we should be able to get a team compact, this is where I was thinking, any competent manager can get 11 players to be compact. Last 4 games, he actually showed he can get a team compact, even Liverpool away but for some reason, he was stubborn all season.

United have this issue of always hiring a manager who is past it or past his peak , we are never proactive and Tuchel is another reactive choice.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

No the fact that you said Chelsea were there abouts turn of the year 10 points behind the leaders, United last season were the same, but you want to ignore it?

Also Tuchel had 1 season he finished 3rd and started the next season and was sacked after his poor start to the league campaign, again emphasising my point that he struggles to challenge for a title.

P.S here is your absences and injuries post Jan.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/chelsea-fc/ausfallzeiten/verein/631?reldata=GB1&2021

it wasnt that bad.

We were competing at the top of the league until we lost Chilwell and James at the same time and we nosedived. We had literally the most injuries in the entire league that year:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...red-injuries-2021-22-manchester-uniteds-cost/

It's also ridiculous to blame Tuchel for the subsequent season when if you extrapolate his points over the full year we would have been just behind Newcastle and finished 5th. It's also very obviously not why he was sacked.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

I have mates who are Liverpool fans, quite a few actually and they have all said they wouldn't count this season as they challenged.

The problem I have with Tuchel is, he is in the Jose Mourinho cloth of managers, he will fall out with our players, we know how Manutd players operate.

We shouldn't be 8th that is for sure but we also had very bad luck for injuries, everytime we have a player come back, someone else gets injured.

I am not saying that is an excuse for the dross football we played because I believe that regardless of injuries, we should be able to get a team compact, this is where I was thinking, any competent manager can get 11 players to be compact. Last 4 games, he actually showed he can get a team compact, even Liverpool away but for some reason, he was stubborn all season.

United have this issue of always hiring a manager who is past it or past his peak , we are never proactive and Tuchel is another reactive choice.

Please provide a single example of him falling out with a player

 

[Lash]

I have mates who are Liverpool fans, quite a few actually and they have all said they wouldn't count this season as they challenged.

The problem I have with Tuchel is, he is in the Jose Mourinho cloth of managers, he will fall out with our players, we know how Manutd players operate.

We shouldn't be 8th that is for sure but we also had very bad luck for injuries, everytime we have a player come back, someone else gets injured.

I am not saying that is an excuse for the dross football we played because I believe that regardless of injuries, we should be able to get a team compact, this is where I was thinking, any competent manager can get 11 players to be compact. Last 4 games, he actually showed he can get a team compact, even Liverpool away but for some reason, he was stubborn all season.

United have this issue of always hiring a manager who is past it or past his peak , we are never proactive and Tuchel is another reactive choice.

That's nice, but I asked for your opinion if we did this next season .

Who did he fall out with in the past? I don't seem to remember him falling out with players, but with the people above him. He certainly gives players both barrels when they don't follow instruction or tactical plans, but I don't remember a Mourinho style falling out with anyone.

So where do you think we should be with the squad we have, injuries permitting?

Tuchel would not have been that stubborn and generally makes his teams more compact, so I'm not sure why you don't think he'd be good?

Describing Tuchel as past his peak is WILD. He has great experience, someone without experience isn't just going to get better in a linear fashion and someone like Alonso will not continually get better, he'll probably actually be worse next season considering he didn't lose a match.

 

[romufc]

We were competing at the top of the league until we lost Chilwell and James at the same time and we nosedived. We had literally the most injuries in the entire league that year:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...red-injuries-2021-22-manchester-uniteds-cost/

It's also ridiculous to blame Tuchel for the subsequent season when if you extrapolate his points over the full year we would have been just behind Newcastle and finished 5th. It's also very obviously not why he was sacked.

Ok you were competing happy? 19 points off the top and you challenged for the league.

Chilwell got injured well before James, 8 games prior to that. So 1 Injury to James and title charge fell off? Yet Ten Hag with 48 different injures in a season is not an excuse.

Fair enough.

 

[romufc]

Please provide a single example of him falling out with a player

Romelu Lukaku.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Romelu Lukaku.

That obviously wasn't Tuchel who fell out with him! He kissed the Chelsea badge then did an interview with an Inter supporters group saying he wished he'd stayed after burning his bridges to force his way out!

Despite that Tuchel brought him back into the team when he was fit and he completely fecked up an open header in front of goal that would have taken us to pens against Madrid. That is a terrible example if that's all you have - especially because Lukaku obviously is a case where the "if you smell dogshit everywhere check your shoes" proviso applies.

 

[romufc]

That obviously wasn't Tuchel who fell out with him! He kissed the Chelsea badge then did an interview with an Inter supporters group saying he wished he'd stayed after burning his bridges to force his way out!

Despite that Tuchel brought him back into the team when he was fit and he completely fecked up an open header in front of goal that would have taken us to pens against Madrid. That is a terrible example if that's all you have - especially because Lukaku obviously is a case where the "if you smell dogshit everywhere check your shoes" proviso applies.

Joshua Kimmich.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Ok you were competing happy? 19 points off the top and you challenged for the league.

Chilwell got injured well before James, 8 games prior to that. So 1 Injury to James and title charge fell off? Yet Ten Hag with 48 different injures in a season is not an excuse.

Fair enough.

I said it was a valid excuse for EtH? Just pointed out that there are levels to what are ultimately both qualified failure seasons league-wise.

 

[Salford_Red83]

Romelu Lukaku.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Joshua Kimmich.

Despite Kimmich physically confronting an assistant Tuchel brought him back in and utilised him properly as a right back because he's been terrible in midfield for the better part of two seasons.

If this is all you have it hardly seems like there's a huge propensity for this to be a problem...?

 

[romufc]

Despite Kimmich physically confronting an assistant Tuchel brought him back in and utilised him properly as a right back because he's been terrible in midfield for the better part of two seasons.

If this is all you have it hardly seems like there's a huge propensity for this to be a problem...?

Emre Mor. You asked for a single example and I have provided 3.

Anyway evidence on Tuchel and Lukaku falling out.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/romelu-lukaku-thomas-tuchel-chelsea-28852618

https://www.football365.com/news/tuchel-joke-broke-relationship-romelu-lukaku-chelsea

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/1816872/Chelsea-Thomas-Tuchel-Romelu-Lukaku

 

[Lyng]

Emre Mor. You asked for a single example and I have provided 3.

Anyway evidence on Tuchel and Lukaku falling out.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/romelu-lukaku-thomas-tuchel-chelsea-28852618

https://www.football365.com/news/tuchel-joke-broke-relationship-romelu-lukaku-chelsea

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/1816872/Chelsea-Thomas-Tuchel-Romelu-Lukaku

Ten Hag has fallen out with several players at United as well.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Emre Mor. You asked for a single example and I have provided 3.

Anyway evidence on Tuchel and Lukaku falling out.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/romelu-lukaku-thomas-tuchel-chelsea-28852618

https://www.football365.com/news/tuchel-joke-broke-relationship-romelu-lukaku-chelsea

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/1816872/Chelsea-Thomas-Tuchel-Romelu-Lukaku

Emre Mor made...12 appearances for Dortmund and was flogged off because he was one of the laziest players ever? Subsequently fell out at Celta Vigo for attitude and effort problems and has completely squandered his top-flight career? I'm not denying that Tuchel and Lukaku fell out - I'm denying that this is something worth blaming Tuchel for in in the slightest. The same with Mor (and honestly probably Kimmich as he's clearly a bit thick and is difficult to coach).

If you think that United have a pervasive attitude problem among the players that is so severe where someone like Tuchel might clash with them (since he's fallen out with a grand total of 3 problematic players over his entire career), how on earth do you think the correct approach is to relax the standards to which the players are held? Why wouldn't you want someone with a keen nose for bullshit like Tuchel to help root them out?

 

[romufc]

Ten Hag has fallen out with several players at United as well.

Agreed he has.

 

[romufc]

Emre Mor made...12 appearances for Dortmund and was flogged off because he was one of the laziest players ever? Subsequently fell out at Celta Vigo for attitude and effort problems and has completely squandered his top-flight career? I'm not denying that Tuchel and Lukaku fell out - I'm denying that this is something worth blaming Tuchel for in in the slightest. The same with Mor (and honestly probably Kimmich as he's clearly a bit thick and is difficult to coach).

If you think that United have a pervasive attitude problem among the players that is so severe where someone like Tuchel might clash with them (since he's fallen out with a grand total of 3 problematic players over his entire career), how on earth do you think the correct approach is to relax the standards to which the players are held? Why wouldn't you want someone with a keen nose for bullshit like Tuchel to help root them out?

Look, regardless of all of that, we have seen in the past that these United players are babies.... The issue I have is Tuchel is of the Jose, Conte mould of managers which has not worked at United, I know Conte hasn't managed at United.

The way Tuchel deals with players calling them out in public, it doesn't work at United. It creates a toxic environment, we saw it with Pogba and Jose.

Which is why I keep saying, before we get a manager, we need to update our structure and culture.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Look, regardless of all of that, we have seen in the past that these United players are babies.... The issue I have is Tuchel is of the Jose, Conte mould of managers which has not worked at United, I know Conte hasn't managed at United.

The way Tuchel deals with players calling them out in public, it doesn't work at United. It creates a toxic environment, we saw it with Pogba and Jose.

Which is why I keep saying, before we get a manager, we need to update our structure and culture.

But he's very much not in the Jose / Conte mould is the point! If all you can find are 3 examples of problems with players where in all 3 examples Tuchel was correct, why is this being portrayed as some sort of significant problem unique to Tuchel? Why do you think this would get worse at Man United under Tuchel compared to EtH when the latter has had far more public and nettlesome conflicts with players?

 

[JPRouve]

But he's very much not in the Jose / Conte mould is the point! If all you can find are 3 examples of problems with players where in all 3 examples Tuchel was correct, why is this being portrayed as some sort of significant problem unique to Tuchel? Why do you think this would get worse at Man United under Tuchel compared to EtH when the latter has had far more public and nettlesome conflicts with players?

With the clubs he was also correct at the exception of maybe Dortmund. The only issue with Tuchel's character is that if anyone has any idea to make an issue public he will have no issue responding publicly and not diplomatically.

 

[Carolina Red]

we have seen in the past that these United players are babies

Then wouldn’t that make them the problem?

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

With the clubs he was also correct at the exception of maybe Dortmund. The only issue with Tuchel's character is that if anyone has any idea to make an issue public he will have no issue responsding publicly and not diplomatically.

Exactly. This is why I think Tuchel's "fiery personality" is totally overblown.

He's been proven correct basically every time he's had a problem with something or someone. Sure he could be more diplomatic but at this point I don't blame him for being frustrated.

 

[romufc]

But he's very much not in the Jose / Conte mould is the point! If all you can find are 3 examples of problems with players where in all 3 examples Tuchel was correct, why is this being portrayed as some sort of significant problem unique to Tuchel? Why do you think this would get worse at Man United under Tuchel compared to EtH when the latter has had far more public and nettlesome conflicts with players?

Its not just 3 players, you said give me a single one and I did.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/13852398/sacked-thomas-tuchel-rows-borussia-dortmund-psg-chelsea/

https://onefootball.com/en/news/tho...is-dortmund-players-after-bus-attack-24434868

These headlines at Manutd will be x 100

 

[romufc]

Then wouldn’t that make them the problem?

This is the point I have been making, changing the manager is what we have done over and over and over again. Every season when things are a bit tough, same headlines against the manager, regardless who he is.

We need to sort that out first.

 

[romufc]

Exactly. This is why I think Tuchel's "fiery personality" is totally overblown.

He's been proven correct basically every time he's had a problem with something or someone. Sure he could be more diplomatic but at this point I don't blame him for being frustrated.

I wouldn't blame Tuchel for being frustrated but lets look at the history of Manutd managers after they have left, what do they all have to say:

I wanted x player but never got him. I was promised y but never happened.

LVG thought manutd can sign anyone, has issues with how the club is a commercial club not football
Jose was upset that he wasnt backed with a CB and players he didnt rate were not sold
Ole wanted Grealish, Rice, Jude, Haaland, got Cavani, Ronaldo, Amad, Pellestri, Donny
ETH wanted ST CB last summer - got one and didnt get to sell McTominay and Maguire.

Now all these managers have had the same issue with Manutd. Tuchel fell out with Mainz and Chelsea over transfers, it will happen the same at United.

 

[Carolina Red]

This is the point I have been making, changing the manager is what we have done over and over and over again. Every season when things are a bit tough, same headlines against the manager, regardless who he is.

We need to sort that out first.

I’ve very much been on the side of “the players are the bigger problem” for years on end now… that said, I also think Tuchel is a step above ETH as a manager. Two things can be true at the same time… several players are a big problem, and Tuchel would be an upgrade.

I wouldn't blame Tuchel for being frustrated but lets look at the history of Manutd managers after they have left, what do they all have to say:

I wanted x player but never got him. I was promised y but never happened.

LVG thought manutd can sign anyone, has issues with how the club is a commercial club not football
Jose was upset that he wasnt backed with a CB and players he didnt rate were not sold
Ole wanted Grealish, Rice, Jude, Haaland, got Cavani, Ronaldo, Amad, Pellestri, Donny
ETH wanted ST CB last summer - got one and didnt get to sell McTominay and Maguire.

Now all these managers have had the same issue with Manutd. Tuchel fell out with Mainz and Chelsea over transfers, it will happen the same at United.

We obviously can’t see the future, but history shows us that all of that happened before INEOS took over, so we can’t necessarily apply it equally to what might be coming down the road.

 

[RedSky]

This is the point I have been making, changing the manager is what we have done over and over and over again. Every season when things are a bit tough, same headlines against the manager, regardless who he is.

We need to sort that out first.

Here's a new concept. We could do both.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Its not just 3 players, you said give me a single one and I did.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/13852398/sacked-thomas-tuchel-rows-borussia-dortmund-psg-chelsea/

https://onefootball.com/en/news/tho...is-dortmund-players-after-bus-attack-24434868

These headlines at Manutd will be x 100

We're using the Sun now? And that is just reporting on a nothingburger with Hummels and Emre Mor being a dipshit again.

The bus attack is a totally unique situation and it's still unclear what happened exactly in the aftermath / who should be blamed. Reportedly Tuchel fell out with Dortmund hierarchy after Watzke didn't fight hard enough with UEFA to delay the match. Hard to envision this being relevant to a prospective Man United season.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

I wouldn't blame Tuchel for being frustrated but lets look at the history of Manutd managers after they have left, what do they all have to say:

I wanted x player but never got him. I was promised y but never happened.

LVG thought manutd can sign anyone, has issues with how the club is a commercial club not football
Jose was upset that he wasnt backed with a CB and players he didnt rate were not sold
Ole wanted Grealish, Rice, Jude, Haaland, got Cavani, Ronaldo, Amad, Pellestri, Donny
ETH wanted ST CB last summer - got one and didnt get to sell McTominay and Maguire.

Now all these managers have had the same issue with Manutd. Tuchel fell out with Mainz and Chelsea over transfers, it will happen the same at United.

Tuchel has never wanted to be in charge of transfers. He literally said this at Chelsea. He fell out with Chelsea's new owners because they wanted him to be MORE involved in transfers and he had no patience for it.

He wants the clubs he works for and the players he trains to be held to high standards and to be ambitious. If this is likely to cause issues then not only should you bring Tuchel in, you should listen to every single recommendation he makes.

 

[JPRouve]

Tuchel has never wanted to be in charge of transfers. He literally said this at Chelsea. He fell out with Chelsea's new owners because they wanted him to be MORE involved in transfers and he had no patience for it.

He wants the clubs he works for and the players he trains to be held to high standards and to be ambitious. If this is likely to cause issues then not only should you bring Tuchel in, you should listen to every single recommendation he makes.

He said the same things with PSG, the only thing he wants is to coach, he only needs "half of a field and a DVD player".

 

[romufc]

Tuchel has never wanted to be in charge of transfers. He literally said this at Chelsea. He fell out with Chelsea's new owners because they wanted him to be MORE involved in transfers and he had no patience for it.

He wants the clubs he works for and the players he trains to be held to high standards and to be ambitious. If this is likely to cause issues then not only should you bring Tuchel in, you should listen to every single recommendation he makes.

Anyway we will go round in circles. I dont rate him and you think he is the messiah.. lets leave it as that.

 

[Infra-red]

Regarding the suggestion upthread that Tuchel doesn't promote possession football - with the exception of his 2nd season at Dortmund, every side he has managed since 2015 has finished the season with more than 60% average possession (a feat United did not even manage in either of Van Gaal's two seasons). This season, his Bayern side averaged 560 accurate passes per game, the 4th highest in Europe (behind City, PSG & Leverkusen). He's a Pep disciple (albeit with altered pressing tendencies) with a strong emphasis on possession football at every team he coaches.

None of that means that United need to hire him, of course.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Anyway we will go round in circles. I dont rate him and you think he is the messiah.. lets leave it as that.

Sure - but it seems like a significant part of why you don't rate him is that you have factual misconceptions over who he is.

Of course it's no skin off my nose so feel free to carry on. As I said I'd strongly prefer that United don't hire him - I believe the relevant Sun Tzu aphorism is to never interrupt your enemy when they're making a mistake?

 

[DSG]

Every club is affected by the winter window, and I'm not bitching. He is the one bitching. Openly in press conferences in a winter fecking window the second things got difficult at Brighton this after he got two targets in the summer that were his choices, not cheap, and flopped.

This is an amazing take given your stance on Ten Hag

On one hand, you’re criticizing De Zerbi, whose midfield was sold and he was given replacements that werenot up to snuff. On the other, despite veto power and control over transfers, Ten Hag gets a pass for his transfer dealings and shit football. Double standard

 

[VP89]

This is an amazing take given your stance on Ten Hag

On one hand, you’re criticizing De Zerbi, whose midfield was sold and he was given replacements that werenot up to snuff. On the other, despite veto power and control over transfers, Ten Hag gets a pass for his transfer dealings and shit football. Double standard

Eh? As I've already said, my gripe is with De Zerbis decision to air this publically. Ten hag is not someone who does this. He adapts to the shit show and keeps silent.

Also ten hag agreed on a structure that he knew before he joined, with terms agreed. De Zerbi did the same. He can't just change it on the fly and cry about it because they aren't giving in for a winter window where it's tough to do proper business.