Thomas Tuchel | England Manager

Crazy to me that people are complaining about this. He's the best manager available, and the FA and the squad in general needed someone to shake things up and elevate the energy for the team.

The squad is full of players that play or have played for elite managers like Guardiola, Klopp, Mourinho, Ancelotti etc and that mentality and expectation needs to translate over to the National team. Imagine playing for one of those guys who are decorated with trophies and achievements and then doing a training session with Gareth Southgate. It's gotta be like the stories of when Moyes took over United. Going from the greatest manager of all time to having moyes tell you to watch film of Jagielka.

These are elite level players and they deserve and need an elite level manager that's a proven winner. To me that would be more important that just being English.
 
I'm pleased with the appointment, said a few years ago Pep could possibly be talked into it as he wanted a stint for Brazil allegedly. England have a good squad and lacking managers to pick from so if the timing is right these moves are possible.

People have been moaning forever about Southgate and while we've got far in tournaments I think it's true we've had a lot of luck as well as being so safe we can scrape through with a pen or freekick until we face a good team. We've had many bad results in the nations league other fixtures and can't recall a series of convincing performances.
 
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RoyH1 said:
Good appointment. Best manager available and with a high level squad like England has, anything else would be a waste of talent.

For those complaining about the appointment, I'd be instead asking why some footballing nations like Germany, Spain or Italy keep are producing quality managers in much greater numbers than England does? Where is the pipeline failing?
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Because the product "English football" is based on foreign talent. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
Gene Loblaw said:
Crazy to me that people are complaining about this. He's the best manager available, and the FA and the squad in general needed someone to shake things up and elevate the energy for the team.

The squad is full of players that play or have played for elite managers like Guardiola, Klopp, Mourinho, Ancelotti etc and that mentality and expectation needs to translate over to the National team. Imagine playing for one of those guys who are decorated with trophies and achievements and then doing a training session with Gareth Southgate. It's gotta be like the stories of when Moyes took over United. Going from the greatest manager of all time to having moyes tell you to watch film of Jagielka.

These are elite level players and they deserve and need an elite level manager that's a proven winner. To me that would be more important that just being English.
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It's only the Daily Mail complaining, isn't it?

I've not seen anyone on here complaining.
 
Southgate has his level, and he clearly couldn't take England to the 'promised Land', but to say he was 'shit' is a dumb take.
He clearly has strengths as a coach but also weaknesses that inevitably stopped England from reaching its final goals.


Tuchel has the chance to do better.
He's got a good squad, though I still question the quality we have in midfield, and they're all still roughly at a good age with more promising players coming through.

Personally though, England's issues will not be coming from the coach / management. England's lack of patience, composure and game intelligence will likely once again be their undoing.
 
Dancfc said:
Dean Ashton trying to downplay his UCL title because Lampard got us out of the group was mind-blowing.

May actually be the rock bottom of punditry.
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Good grief. Under Lampard you were struggling in mid table in the league, while Tuchel managed to guide you to fourth. It was a vast improvement.
 
duffer said:
Which part of the press ( other than the Mail) are in uproar? I'm genuinely not seeing it.
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Neville and Carragher said enough to create something of an uproar.

Sam Wallace wrote a piece in the Telegraph also.

Ultimately many pundits have gone down the route of stating disappointment that the New England manager isn’t English, rather than celebrating they’ve just employed a tournament football winner.

Neville and Carragher in particular wouldn’t have said a word if it was Pep Guardiola, which also confuses the matter further.
 
I think the fa seriously overestimated southgates ability, there were british managers out there that were a level or two above southgate and could have easily done just as much with the current crop of players as southgate achieved but with far better playing style.
 
How Tuchel deals with the politics of his time as England manager will be interesting.
Dealing with club managers who will naturally have their own views regarding their players playing time ,and other aspects, once they jet/go off onto International duty.

I'm also really intrigued how Tuchel adapts to international football. He comes across as quite intense, very intricate in his tactical details and quite stubborn.
I think this works well when you're working with players on a day to day basis but possibly less so Internationally.
Also the gaming intelligence and general football culture of the English players is alot different to that of the likes of Germany, Spain, Holland and Italy.
We're not a tactically driven football country, which is why I think we failed on the pitch with Sven and Cappello.
We still play quite a simple game style, which was illustrated in the last International tournament when even so called smaller nations would pass the ball around us, quite effortlessly to at times which was worrying.
 
Red in STL said:
The real problem is why can't we produce managers/coaches that are capable of being at the top of their profession?

The top footballing nations can do it, Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Brazil, Argentina, England can do it at the levels below with the junior teams, why doesn't that translate to the bigger clubs or the national team?
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Good question. I still think we should have give potter a crack at the England job. Did fairly well with Brighton and can get a team playing decent football.
 
DJ_21 said:
Good question. I still think we should have give potter a crack at the England job. Did fairly well with Brighton and can get a team playing decent football.
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Part of the problem is the owners, particularly PL ones, instant results or you get sacked pretty quickly, Potter did OK at Brighton, moved to Chelsea and then gone, O'Neil went thru St George's, so did McKenna, the former already got the boot once and the latter we'll have to see
 
Carolina Red said:
Don't Bayernsplain who I want for manager to me, sir.
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I just want you guys to have some fun again. And I don’t think Tuchel is the man to bring it back for you.
Also many posters who wanted him so badly did so for the very same reasons I wanted him at Bayern. And it was such a car crash. I just want to spare you all that same disappointment. :annoyed:
 
HTG said:
I just want you guys to have some fun again. And I don’t think Tuchel is the man to bring it back for you.
Also many posters who wanted him so badly did so for the very same reasons I wanted him at Bayern. And it was such a car crash. I just want to spare you all that same disappointment. :annoyed:
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I'm just messing with you.

Tuchel is definitely a more pragmatic choice, but honestly, that's how I coach as well, so it appeals to me more than the other types.
 
Red in STL said:
Part of the problem is the owners, particularly PL ones, instant results or you get sacked pretty quickly, Potter did OK at Brighton, moved to Chelsea and then gone, O'Neil went thru St George's, so did McKenna, the former already got the boot once and the latter we'll have to see
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Unless you are Manchester United
 
FrankDrebin said:
Southgate has his level, and he clearly couldn't take England to the 'promised Land', but to say he was 'shit' is a dumb take.
He clearly has strengths as a coach but also weaknesses that inevitably stopped England from reaching its final goals.
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Agreed. His inflexibility was his Achilles heel.
 
Carolina Red said:
I'm just messing with you.

Tuchel is definitely a more pragmatic choice, but honestly, that's how I coach as well, so it appeals to me more than the other types.
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I don’t know if he’s that pragmatic. With us he refused to change his system, despite claiming again and again that he was missing his number 6, which is integral to his system. He was also extremely stubborn in his dealings with the press. And the atmosphere he instilled in the team was supposedly horrible. Which you could actually see, when we were playing. At no point did I ever get the feeling that the team enjoyed what they were supposed to do or even bought into his tactics.
The inability to adapt to these circumstances was what caused his downfall, in my view.
I think he’s quite dogmatic. At least he was with us.
And there’s the matter of atmosphere at United. As fans of the club you know the team better than I do. But whenever I see you play, you look dreadful, joyless and without any bit of energy or positivity. And I think for a team like that, Tuchel would be a disaster. He’d only drag you down further, while antagonising the whole building.

If I had to choose a coach for you, I’d try to find someone who has a more positive charisma, while being very demanding. Those are rare, I realise. But whenever I see you, it’s the lack of any joy that’s most striking to me. And that’s not a new development. It’s been like that for years. And to me, it’s one of the reasons so many former players of you seem to have hated their times with you so much. It just wasn’t fun.
 
Valencia Shin Crosses said:
With signings yes. With management absolutely not.
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Its all part of the same issue. Refusing to commit fully to 3 year plans resulting in every manager to date failing by season 3 and being sacked since Moyes. Resulting also in an imbalanced squad fully of ill suited recruitment that every boss who has had to take over from the predecessor. With no room for squad over hauls. Under INEOS is the first time we might finally get one. From thr backfroom, front office, playing staff till finally the bench of they finally decide its needed.
 
I actually can’t take some of these ‘pundits’ seriously. It’s like their spewing their pro-English, nationalistic views because they want to appear somewhat contrary in interview.

If you’re a major nation with aspirations of winning a major trophy (which England are), then you want the best manager available. Tuchel is that by an absolute landslide. It would be ideal to have a coach from the same nation but if they’re not up to the standard of ‘bringing it home, they’re not worthy of the job.
 
Mike Smalling said:
What was the reaction when Capello got the job? And is this still lingering resentment from WW2?
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Nothing crazy, but came on the back of 5 years of Sven so a foreign manager wasn’t shocking at all, and he was a hugely respected figure in football.
 
cpresc said:
No.

As in the same way they play a bunch of games close together with the tournament lasting only 3-4 weeks but with 24/7 intensity and pressure, usually on foreign soil
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It’s still a cup. It’s called “The World Cup”.
 
HTG said:
I just want you guys to have some fun again. And I don’t think Tuchel is the man to bring it back for you.
Also many posters who wanted him so badly did so for the very same reasons I wanted him at Bayern. And it was such a car crash. I just want to spare you all that same disappointment. :annoyed:
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I’m not sure I share this view.

I think he’s well suited to international football. You’ll be surprised..
 
stefan92 said:
There simply is no history of rivalry between Germany and England, which is why Germans don't care.

England feels that way towards Germany for reasons no German gets, but as established in this thread, that's very one-sided.
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While I agree that it's kind of cringe to have a rivalry that only one side cares about (here's looking at you Scotland fans!). it is basically because prior to this current generation, our only half decent performances in big competitions ended in semi-final defeats to Germans in Italia 90 and Euro 96... Yeah, it would really be best if we just moved on. A lot of us are just waiting for the cohort that reads the daily mail and express to die off basically - not too long to go now :D
 
InspiRED said:
While I agree that it's kind of cringe to have a rivalry that only one side cares about (here's looking at you Scotland fans!). it is basically because prior to this current generation, our only half decent performances in big competitions ended in semi-final defeats to Germans in Italia 90 and Euro 96... Yeah, it would really be best if we just moved on. A lot of us are just waiting for the cohort that reads the daily mail and express to die off basically - not too long to go now :D
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Agree with this, however, as much as the vast majority don’t care about the wartime issue, it’s obvious still something that exists in history and associated between the two countries.

It’s understandable most Germans won’t see that as a rivalry given their country was the aggressor in the WW2 but certain pockets of the population in the UK, and probably the rest of the world, will still dredge it up even today as a problem.

As you point out though as time goes on those pockets will disappear.
 
The more I've thought about this the more of an embarrassment it is. Obviously, it started with Sven, but english football should be laughed at for not having an Englishman coach them. Goes completely against the spirt of international football. Now, i cba watching england.

Thanks for nothing FA. Useless fecks.
 
DixieDean said:
The more I've thought about this the more of an embarrassment it is. Obviously, it started with Sven, but english football should be laughed at for not having an Englishman coach them. Goes completely against the spirt of international football. Now, i cba watching england.

Thanks for nothing FA. Useless fecks.
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Are you joking?
 
TheReligion said:
Are you joking?
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Why? A 'big' football country like england should have a english manager. It's an embarrassment that they don't. Don't care if the options were crap (they were ok). It's on england to produce better coaches. Defeats the point of international football.
 
Tuchel has the managerial chops to take a very good England side all the way, but the open question is whether he has the balls of titanium to drop underperforming players regardless of how big their reputation is?

We shall find out.
 
DixieDean said:
Why? A 'big' football country like england should have a english manager. It's an embarrassment that they don't. Don't care if the options were crap (they were ok). It's on england to produce better coaches. Defeats the point of international football.
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They’ve just given Southgate 5 years or however more. He had no experience. They specifically said they wanted a winner of pedigree this time… there’s zero option English.
 
TheReligion said:
They’ve just given Southgate 5 years or however more. He had no experience. They specifically said they wanted a winner of pedigree this time… there’s zero option English.
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But why do they need a winner of pedigree. You don't have to be a big name or a winner at club level to have success at international management. They should have gone with one of Howe, potter or carsely. If they are not good enough to win a trophy then tough. We need to produce our own tuchel. English football has been shocking at producing high quliaty football managers for decades, now. And moves like this won't help with fixing that issue.
 
DixieDean said:
But why do they need a winner of pedigree. You don't have to be a big name or a winner at club level to have success at international management. They should have gone with one of Howe, potter or carsely. If they are not good enough to win a trophy then tough. We need to produce our own tuchel. English football has been shocking at producing high quliaty football managers for decades, now. And moves like this won't help with fixing that issue.
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Ultimately, giving an English manager the top job isn't going to fix anything either. They need to invest in the grass roots level more than anything. Honestly I think Potter is the only credible candidate there and who knows how much he wanted the job and the pressures that come with it.

Howe is a contender but I don't think taking him from Newcastle mid season is as easy a task as some might think. He'll no doubt get a look in to manage England again but the Newcastle gig might be as good as it gets for him at club level.

Tuchel may well even help some of the up and coming coaches working at different levels within the FA.

Giving the job to say Lampard isn't going to make us produce better managers for years to come.
 
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