Thomas Tuchel | England Manager

[JezChan]

Tuchel is probably the best manager that the FA could get, and given the quality of the current squad that he gets to work with, alongside the established precedent that a manager can be of any nationality, then I think it's a great appointment.

I think there can be a discussion on that precedent though - why would any national team be allowed to employ a manager of a different nationality, when the players must be restricted to representing only one nation at the senior level?

I'm not crying foul of England being managed by someone non-English, but I would be interested to hear whether there is any appetite for amending FIFA's rules such that the entire footballing structure for each national team would be restricted to people eligible to represent that nation, so that international football becomes a matter of representing one's own country through the entire team and support structure through-and-through.

 

[stefan92]

I would be interested to hear whether there is any appetite for amending FIFA's rules such that the entire footballing structure for each national team would be restricted to people eligible to represent that nation, so that international football becomes a matter of representing one's own country through the entire team and support structure through-and-through.

I don't think there is. Hiring foreign managers is a great way for developing football countries to get outside influence and improve the quality of their team and general setup a lot. Of course it would be preferrable for every nation to be able to have the full setup homegrown, but where do you draw the line between the small nationa needing help and the proper big nations?

 

[DixieDean]

Ultimately, giving an English manager the top job isn't going to fix anything either. They need to invest in the grass roots level more than anything. Honestly I think Potter is the only credible candidate there and who knows how much he wanted the job and the pressures that come with it.

Howe is a contender but I don't think taking him from Newcastle mid season is as easy a task as some might think. He'll no doubt get a look in to manage England again but the Newcastle gig might be as good as it gets for him at club level.

Tuchel may well even help some of the up and coming coaches working at different levels within the FA.

Giving the job to say Lampard isn't going to make us produce better managers for years to come.

i think you're right that the issue needs fixing at grass roots. I would have hoped st geroge's park would have helped by now. I don't know why we can't produce elite coaches. I'm sure it's a multifaceted issue, but giving the top job to a non englishman is symbolically...not good.

 

[DixieDean]

Tuchel is probably the best manager that the FA could get, and given the quality of the current squad that he gets to work with, alongside the established precedent that a manager can be of any nationality, then I think it's a great appointment.

I think there can be a discussion on that precedent though - why would any national team be allowed to employ a manager of a different nationality, when the players must be restricted to representing only one nation at the senior level?

I'm not crying foul of England being managed by someone non-English, but I would be interested to hear whether there is any appetite for amending FIFA's rules such that the entire footballing structure for each national team would be restricted to people eligible to represent that nation, so that international football becomes a matter of representing one's own country through the entire team and support structure through-and-through.

the players can actually change teams, if they only have a certain number of caps. I feel the same abut players as I do the managers when it comes to big teams. I've said it before, but it's a joke that spain won the euro's with two french lads playing for them. Makes a mockery of it.

 

[Florida Man]

You have to ask why Americans are singing songs about England

Even more, they learned how to master the London accent and insist on speaking that way. Really taking it too far if you ask me.

 

[Remember the geese]

They should have gone with one of Howe, potter or carsely. If they are not good enough to win a trophy then tough

I'm not so sure about the self-sabotaging approach.

 

[Wilt]

Great appointment. He’ll do very well.

 

[TheGame]

 

[lexisonfire]

@TheGame Perhaps more English coaches need to head abroad for their Uefa A license and to accumulate coaching experience like Potter. IIRC Paul Lambert did his Uefa badges in Germany with the DFB after playing for us so it's not restricted to local coaches.

Will Still the 32yo English coach of RC Lens also did his Uefa badges in Belgium, if he was German he'd be talked up as an exciting upcoming coach like Naglesmann's time at Hoffenheim. Still had issues getting his Pro licence too (famous pros get fast-tracked to do their badges over other applicants but not all end up in coaching since they're already rich enough to take it easy) and his Ligue 1 club was fined for having an unlicensed coach but he's the type of young coach England need to produce more of: fluent in multiple languages, able to work internationally and communicate with players of different nationalities like the foreign coaches PL clubs love to hire.

 

[DJ_21]

@TheGame Perhaps more English coaches need to head abroad for their Uefa A license and to accumulate coaching experience like Potter. IIRC Paul Lambert did his Uefa badges in Germany with the DFB after playing for us so it's not restricted to local coaches.

Will Still the 32yo English coach of RC Lens also did his Uefa badges in Belgium, if he was German he'd be talked up as an exciting upcoming coach like Naglesmann's time at Hoffenheim. Still had issues getting his Pro licence too (famous pros get fast-tracked to do their badges over other applicants but not all end up in coaching since they're already rich enough to take it easy) and his Ligue 1 club was fined for having an unlicensed coach but he's the type of young coach England need to produce more of: fluent in multiple languages, able to work internationally and communicate with players of different nationalities like the foreign coaches PL clubs love to hire.

Isn’t Will Still from belgium?

 

[GhastlyHun]

But why do they need a winner of pedigree. You don't have to be a big name or a winner at club level to have success at international management. They should have gone with one of Howe, potter or carsely. If they are not good enough to win a trophy then tough. We need to produce our own tuchel. English football has been shocking at producing high quliaty football managers for decades, now. And moves like this won't help with fixing that issue.

Maybe it will. If Tuchel ends up an abject failure, it may cure those responsible of the idea you need to have 'pedigree' or be a 'proven winner' and lead the FA to rethink their approach.

 

[TheGame]

@TheGame Perhaps more English coaches need to head abroad for their Uefa A license and to accumulate coaching experience like Potter. IIRC Paul Lambert did his Uefa badges in Germany with the DFB after playing for us so it's not restricted to local coaches.

Will Still the 32yo English coach of RC Lens also did his Uefa badges in Belgium, if he was German he'd be talked up as an exciting upcoming coach like Naglesmann's time at Hoffenheim. Still had issues getting his Pro licence too (famous pros get fast-tracked to do their badges over other applicants but not all end up in coaching since they're already rich enough to take it easy) and his Ligue 1 club was fined for having an unlicensed coach but he's the type of young coach England need to produce more of: fluent in multiple languages, able to work internationally and communicate with players of different nationalities like the foreign coaches PL clubs love to hire.

I fully agree with you. The prices for coaching badges abroad are much cheaper than here however it may be difficult for coaches to go abroad due to personal situations eg family, finance etc. In the example above, the coach has been doing it for a while. There is clearly a problem in this country around cost and opportunity for badges.

 

[Melville Red]

Well we are not getting Tuchel now. He was my first choice to replace ETH.

Every cloud…

 

[Judas]

The more I've thought about this the more of an embarrassment it is. Obviously, it started with Sven, but english football should be laughed at for not having an Englishman coach them. Goes completely against the spirt of international football. Now, i cba watching england.

Thanks for nothing FA. Useless fecks.

Didn't you spend the entire summer moaning about England too? Why not just do yourself a favour, stick to your word, and don't bother. Footballs meant to be fun, and you just come across miserable.

 

[giorno]

the players can actually change teams, if they only have a certain number of caps. I feel the same abut players as I do the managers when it comes to big teams. I've said it before, but it's a joke that spain won the euro's with two french lads playing for them. Makes a mockery of it.

Laporte is basque and as much a product of spanish football as french

You also have Jorginho, Pepe, Marcos Senna...Spain 2012 and Greece 2004 are about the only two winners without a naturalized player this millennium

 

[SilentWitness]

@TheGame Perhaps more English coaches need to head abroad for their Uefa A license and to accumulate coaching experience like Potter. IIRC Paul Lambert did his Uefa badges in Germany with the DFB after playing for us so it's not restricted to local coaches.

Will Still the 32yo English coach of RC Lens also did his Uefa badges in Belgium, if he was German he'd be talked up as an exciting upcoming coach like Naglesmann's time at Hoffenheim. Still had issues getting his Pro licence too (famous pros get fast-tracked to do their badges over other applicants but not all end up in coaching since they're already rich enough to take it easy) and his Ligue 1 club was fined for having an unlicensed coach but he's the type of young coach England need to produce more of: fluent in multiple languages, able to work internationally and communicate with players of different nationalities like the foreign coaches PL clubs love to hire.

More often than not, English people won't speak a foreign language in comparison to their European counterparts who more often than not will be capable of speaking English (Now this can be brought up as a problem with our education but that's a different issue). When you add in finance and family situations on top of that, there isn't a lot of incentive for a young coach to go abroad rather than stay in England when they're not in the same position as players who will be getting a massive financial packet which negates those things. We need to get better on our own doorstep at making it more accessible and affordable if we want to have top coaching talent otherwise the same cycle will occur.

 

[RedChisel]

Even more, they learned how to master the London accent and insist on speaking that way. Really taking it too far if you ask me.

So English people regularly rock up in Florida singing 10 German bombers?

 

[RoyH1]

So English people regularly rock up in Florida singing 10 German bombers?

Get visions of 30 pissed, lobster red expat brits outside of an Irish pub in Palm beach dressed only in shorts/sandals, belting it out in front of a crowd of bemused Cuban Americans

 

[SuperiorXI]

These days if you say you're German, they throw you in jail

 

[saivet]

 

[duffer]

I'd love to know the results if they asked French, Argentinian, Brazilian, Italian or German fans.

 

[FootballHQ]

Portugal are the only other major football nation who also appoint foreign managers. Martinez from across the border but with no links to the Portuguese game AFAIK. Scolari years back aswell but more links generally between Brazil-Portugal with Deco declaring for them in that period.

Brazil talked about doing it with Xavi and they certainly wanted Ancelotti but he turned them down so I think Brazil appointing a foreign coach would cause more worldwide headlines than England doing it again. Will probably happen after 2026 as hard to see Brazil doing better than QFs in their current state.

 

[DixieDean]

Didn't you spend the entire summer moaning about England too? Why not just do yourself a favour, stick to your word, and don't bother. Footballs meant to be fun, and you just come across miserable.

I moaned about southgate because he was utterly crap. I would have been happy to give howe, or potter a ago. I only watch International football, these days, and feel a bit off put by this appointment. Will probably still watch england in WC but feels a bit tainted.

 

[Malons]

But why do they need a winner of pedigree. You don't have to be a big name or a winner at club level to have success at international management. They should have gone with one of Howe, potter or carsely. If they are not good enough to win a trophy then tough. We need to produce our own tuchel. English football has been shocking at producing high quliaty football managers for decades, now. And moves like this won't help with fixing that issue.

Give it Les Read. What else do you need except the ability to say bottle and bosh?

"Show a bit of bottle, bosh back of the net. 'Ave it you slaaaags"

 

[FrankDrebin]

I'd love to know the results if they asked French, Argentinian, Brazilian, Italian or German fans.

Yeah, that'll be interesting.

 

[PoTMS]

I see even managers are putting their two cents in. People in football are so unbearable. Still going on about the man's nationality. I was too young to remember when Sven got appointed but was there this much of a commotion? There certainly wasn't over Capello. Honestly, fecking get over it.

 

[FrankDrebin]

Sam Allardyce "For me, that could have been Lee Carsley. If not, they could have gone all out for Eddie Howe or even Frank Lampard or Steven Gerrard in the end because you've got a quality squad."

 

[duffer]

Yeah, that'll be interesting.

I know that quite recently, Ancelotti was very strongly linked with the Brazil job and I have some memory of there being some pushback as a non-Brazilian.

 

[The Firestarter]

Sam Allardyce "For me, that could have been Lee Carsley. If not, they could have gone all out for Eddie Howe or even Frank Lampard or Steven Gerrard in the end because you've got a quality squad."

Yeah I totally expected Lamps at some point but it seems they have wised up.

 

[FrankDrebin]

Probably would've been accepted had he played the game at a competitive level.

Kind of intrigued how many people who haven't played the sport at a competitive level get their application rejected.

 

[stefan92]

Probably would've been accepted had he played the game at a competitive level.

Kind of intrigued how many people who haven't played the sport at a competitive level get their application rejected.

That's a good question. It definitely is easier for (ex-)players to get their licenses elsewhere as well. In Germany there even was/is(?) a special course for still active players to enable a smooth transition into coaching after their active career. Not for the highest degree, but for the "entry level license". Even players like Ilkay Gündogan, Sami Khedira or Christoph Kramer (the latter two are World Cup winners) participated in that program.

But this kind of reaction to the normal way isn't something I'm really aware of in Germany.

 

[SilentWitness]

That's a good question. It definitely is easier for (ex-)players to get their licenses elsewhere as well. In Germany there even was/is(?) a special course for still active players to enable a smooth transition into coaching after their active career. Not for the highest degree, but for the "entry level license". Even players like Ilkay Gündogan, Sami Khedira or Christoph Kramer (the latter two are World Cup winners) participated in that program.

But this kind of reaction to the normal way isn't something I'm really aware of in Germany.

In the tweet thread the person says that it is the same price for a C licence in England as it would be to get an A licence abroad. Bit mad.

 

[stefan92]

In the tweet thread the person says that it is the same price for a C licence in England as it would be to get an A licence abroad. Bit mad.

Absolutely mad. There is a lack of good English managers on every level, and it starts with those things.

 

[tenpoless]

Sam Allardyce "For me, that could have been Lee Carsley. If not, they could have gone all out for Eddie Howe or even Frank Lampard or Steven Gerrard in the end because you've got a quality squad."

At least Lampard has managed Chelsea. What has Gerrard manage? the last time I saw him in a video he was pronouncing arabic words wrong.

 

[Judas]

I expect this will bring a change in English coaching, making it easier more affordable etc. it needs to happen. I’ve no problem with Tuchel, would I prefer we had some decent English managers who I could see in theory doing as good a job? Of course, but currently we don’t. That’s an issue I hope is addressed.

 

[TheGame]

One of the more sensible takes I've seen.

 

[Demyanenko_square_jaw]

True

Now that I think of it... shortly after the World Cup 2014 I was on a flight, sitting next to an English guy and we talked a bit about football. I remember he compared the 7-1 semi final win to other batterings on the international stage. He included the 5-1 win of England against Germany in the World Cup qualifiers 2001 and expected me to remember that as a devastating experience for German football. Truth is that match is mostly forgotten as it just didn't really matter. We knew we were shit in those years and still reached the World Cup Final 2002 (while England did nothing of note). I remember how confused I was about that as well. Probably another example of this one sided rivalry.

England just don't matter to us, compared to Italy, Brazil or the Netherlands, probably Spain can by now be really named as well in this list as the Nemesis in recent 15 years.

I've watched and read various German '70s greats and journalists/football historians say that along with the success of 70s Bayern, the World Cup 1970 and Euro 72 Quarterfinal wins by W.Germany against England were a huge deal at the time in establishing the mentality of "we're one of the best football countries in the world" among the playing culture. So it mattered a lot at one point when England as a national team still had that sort of respect in world football, but no doubt fell away when England failed to keep up with W.Germany's consistency in reaching semi-finals/finals.

I think there's a lot of this sort of thing in football where the interest/animosity isn't equal, I don't think most Italians (or Brazilians pre-2014 humiliation) ever seemed to have much of an interest in Germany as a rival, during the internet era I mostly just saw them taking the piss out of the one sided competitive record between the two . maybe Brazil vs Argentina is the most consistent historical fan rivalry no matter how each team is doing, and is the one that seems mainly based around football rather than politics/historical grievances being at the root of things.

 

[DixieDean]

I've watched and read various German '70s greats and journalists/football historians say that along with the success of 70s Bayern, the World Cup 1970 and Euro 72 Quarterfinal wins by W.Germany against England were a huge deal at the time in establishing the mentality of "we're one of the best football countries in the world" among the playing culture. So it mattered a lot at one point when England as a national team still had that sort of respect in world football, but no doubt fell away when England failed to keep up with W.Germany's consistency in reaching semi-finals/finals.

I think there's a lot of this sort of thing in football where the interest/animosity isn't equal, I don't think most Italians (or Brazilians pre-2014 humiliation) ever seemed to have much of an interest in Germany as a rival, during the internet era I mostly just saw them taking the piss out of the one sided competitive record between the two . maybe Brazil vs Argentina is the most consistent historical fan rivalry no matter how each team is doing, and is the one that seems mainly based around football rather than politics/historical grievances being at the root of things.

It is kinda embarrassing how we consider germany a big rival and they don't. Must be how the scots and welsh feel when talking about england.

It's not a surprise when England just haven't been in the semis/finals enough in tournies over the decades. We lionised Italia '90 and Euro '96 ffs. Semi finals that would be forgotten quickly by elite nations. But we have scraps to go on, so it is what it is.

 

[HisNameIsEarl]

Don't worry so much. Its in the nature of these things to be one sided - everyone in Germany knows about the "Wembley goal", while the English often don't even know what we're talking about.

 

[Dancfc]

One of the more sensible takes I've seen.

It's interesting that the classiest statement by a manager/pundit/journalist over Tuchel getting the job has come from someone who may have actually got it himself had the FA stuck kept their search to homegrown managers only.