Hargreaves
Thomas Müller
- Thread starter FC Ronaldo
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
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With our undroppable captain, where exactly will we play Muller anyway?
Muller deal wont happen. I'll refuse to be convinced until he wearing the shirt
Cant wait for the myth of Rooney being undroppable to prove to be just that. A myth. Just like a myth about RVP being LVG's mate.
Müller isn't a striker though and it isn't his preferred position although he can play there occasionally. He is at his best as a second striker or as an inside right, where he can fully utilize his propensity for those incisive runs and knack for linking up with players.
Never going to happen. Honestly reckon we have more chance of signing Ronaldo, Bale etc. Pure pipe dream, this coming from someone who was slowly being convinced we'd sign Ramos.
At the age of 25 he's scored 2 less World cup goals than Pele and 2 more than Maradona...He always scores in the big champions league games for Bayern no matter who the opposition is if he is in the first XI...He's an elite striker and unfortunately for him that Bayern have 2 elite strikers in the same team......He's a winner and is easily worth Di Maria moneybut I seriously doubt Bayern would sell him
Saw this in the transfer thread, didn't want to derail it, so brought it over here. It surprised me how Müller is still fairly underrated/undervalued by quite a few (quoted others who rated him highly so as not to not make it seem one-sided).
I do understand where it's coming from though as Müller isn't the type of player who you would build the team around like a Ronaldo/Bale/Hazard etc as he is more of a supporting player imo (but a match-winner all the same - a peek at his WC performances should be more than enough). That being said, any team would love to have him and he is simply a great player and the complete package, as opposed to having pronounced peaks to his game like most players. For what it's worth, I do rate him as being better than Bale and Hazard but he is a pretty unique player who still does tend to divide opinions. Imo, he is easily worth £60m or more in the current market.
So how highly do others view/rate him? Most acknowledge him as a fine player, but to what extent?
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I'd happily take him over the likes of Bale or Hazard. He may not be the most exciting player to watch but he more than makes up for that with his sheer consistency and hard work. Not to mention, he's a winner and that mentality is highly infectious. He'd spread confidence across the squad and he's guaranteed to chip in with 20 odd goals every season, which will be a much welcome change from our usually less productive and more infuriating wingers.
Don't think a German has ever played for us. We had the GK Zieler but he never played for us and a midfielder Markus Neumayr who also didnt
I really get where you're coming from but when I call Müller a non-game changer, I am commenting more on his type of player than his quality. I don't consider Xavi, Modric or Rio for instance game changers either despite them being unquestionably top, top players. I am trying to say it has nothing to do with his quality. You claim he is better than Hazard and Bale and I agree that he is but those can both pick up the ball, go out and score or assist a goal out of nowhere. They might not be consistent enough and sometimes downright useless but they are the type of player I am talking about when I use the game changer tag.
I don't think he suits any position in a 4-3-3 naturally, for that reason I'd rather have Bale etc..
Over Hazard yes, over Bale no. Also we'd have a lot bigger chance to land Bale than actually sign Müller.
Muller is well worth the 80m he is touted to go for. That's around the sum for Di Maria and I think Muller is the more established player. If he's on the market he's the best option for us as a forward there is. Who else can we get for that price who is better than him?
I don't know about him being better than Bale or Hazard but he is a top player. People always say that's he's not good at any one particular thing and it's true, he's good at everything! I'd love to see him playing upfront for us but what are the chances of that
So a player whose World Cup record at age 25 reads
Games Played 13
Games Won 11
Games Drawn 1
Games Lost 1 (Group Stage)
Goals scored 10 (tied 7th all-time)
Goals assisted 5
while also playing defense and running the most kilometres on the team is not a game-changer. Gotcha.
Are you for real? That was as childish and juvenile as I can imagine even by internet forum standards. If you read how I define a game changer, you would easily understand why statistics and trophies does not come in to. I even mentioned the example of Xavi who won even more but you still couldn't understand? Alright let me go at it again. A game changer is a player who can pick the ball and do all the work by himself for a goal or an assist, I only consider Messi, Ronaldo, Suarez, Neymar and Robben to be unquestionably up there at the moment with Hazard, Bale and Agüero potentially if not for injuries or inconsistency.
all out attack mode:
-------Schneiderlin
----Herrera---Di Maria
Muller-----------Memphis
---------Rooney
-------Schneiderlin
----Herrera---Di Maria
Muller-----------Memphis
---------Rooney
Statements like these ones make me wonder if you've actually seen the guy play. He can occupy any of the three forward positions and do it better than anyone we currently have.
I didn't say he couldn't play them, but he doesn't naturally suit the position and I don't think we'd get the most out of him, nor do I think we'll change the system for him.
Meaning, he'll undoubtedly come with a huge £60m price or whatever and due to being played in a position "he can play in", he will never perform to the £60m expectation, take a look at Di Maria, we are looking to now employ a third central mid but I don't think Louis is impressed with his retention ability, but he'll never be the winger's £'s worth we paid for him.
all out attack mode:
-------Schneiderlin
----Herrera---Di Maria
Muller-----------Memphis
---------Rooney
What about Juan?
What position do you think he naturally fits in? I always thought he was one of those players too intelligent to pin down to one position, he filled in everywhere for Bayern and never looked unnatural as far as I remember.
Fair point, and it's hard to say, some of me wants to see him as the 2nd stiker in a 4-4-1-1. I think he'd do well as a false 9 because of his link up play, but ideally and this isn't from logic or reason, but I'd like to see him play a similar role to Iniesta at Barca
This is what made me think. Im guessing LVG will want to use him on the right side of a 4-3-3 or behind the main striker in other formations. This could mean Wilson has a big chance to be backup to Rooney if we don't go for another traditional striker.
Depay-Rooney-Muller
Muller is the forward equivalent of Carrick, criminally underrated by those who don't watch him regularly, doesn't do a lot of things which allow him to grab attention in the same manner as more exciting teammates, but is fecking brilliant at what he does and makes everyone around him better.
he's wasted further back so he'll have to battle it out with the front 3. given injuries and form, he'll get his chances. I'd have Muller ahead of him, though.
To be fair no one was any where near the level of Germany in the world cup, one could argue Argentina brought them all the way but Germany just had an off day so I wouldn't look into those stats too much however impressive they are.
Got 6/1 on Germany before the WC last year, easiest 240 bucks I've ever made.
by that rationale Messi's stats are meaningless because he plays for the best club side in the world.
Muller contributed to Germany's dominance; that contribution shouldn't be ignored because of Germany's dominance. what a bizarre way of looking at things.
But Messi continues to do it against the best teams, I'm not saying Muller doesn't too because he does but that world cup campaign was a bit too easy.
Don't get me wrong, I love Muller and do find him underrated but I just can't bring myself to value him as much as €70m or even close for that matter.
He is obviously a "game changer". He just happens to do achieve it in a different manner than the likes of Ronaldo and Messi. He's ruthlessly efficient and incredibly consistent.
Müller scored 4 goals in 4 games against Barca. Messi scored 4 goals in 6 games against Bayern. Just saying.
We need some Muller Reus
CL goals and assists in the last 3 season starting with the final goal against Chelsea...
12/13
1:0 in a 1:0 away win against Lille
1:1 in a 1:1 draw in Valencia (secured the final stage)
2:0 in a 4:1 against BATE (3 minutes after Boateng got red carded, secured group place 1)
1:0 (assist), 2:0 (goal) in a 3:1 away win against Arsenal (1st leg, final of 16)
2:0 in a 2:0 win against Juventus (1st leg, QF)
1:0, 2:0 (assist), 3:0 (block), 4:0 of a 4:0 in the first leg against Barcelona (SF)
3:0 in a 3:0 second leg win against Barcelona
13/14
2:0 in a 3:1 win away at Manchester City
1:0 (assist) and 3:1 (goal) away at ZSKA Moscow
1:0 in a 2:3 loss at home against Manchester City
2:0 in a 2:0 win away against Arsenal (final of 16)
2:1 in a 3:1 win at home against Manchester United (QF)
14/15
1:0 in a 1:0 win away at ZSKA Moscow
2:0 (assist), 3 or 4:0 goal away at AS Rome
1:0 in a 3:0 win home against ZSKA Moscow
1:0 and 4:0 in a 7:0 win home against Donezk (final of 16)
3:0 (assist), 4:0 (goal), 5:0 assist in a 6:1 home win against Porto (QF)
3:2 in a 3:2 win home against Barcelona (SF)
His CL stats aren't because of goals at home against the Pilsens etc. of the world. He did not have goals e.g. in the 5:0 wins against Pilsen or Lille at home. There is a lot of crucial goals and goals or assists against top opponents...
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Müller is not available. He might be the square peg in the round hole in that team as he is "chaos", he is not a midfielder, he is not controllable for a control freak that Guardiola seems to be. But even if he rarely can really play out his strengths in that system - he is still the most productive and the guy with the most decisive actions. Sometimes you wish to know how it would be if the situation was different.
12/13
1:0 in a 1:0 away win against Lille
1:1 in a 1:1 draw in Valencia (secured the final stage)
2:0 in a 4:1 against BATE (3 minutes after Boateng got red carded, secured group place 1)
1:0 (assist), 2:0 (goal) in a 3:1 away win against Arsenal (1st leg, final of 16)
2:0 in a 2:0 win against Juventus (1st leg, QF)
1:0, 2:0 (assist), 3:0 (block), 4:0 of a 4:0 in the first leg against Barcelona (SF)
3:0 in a 3:0 second leg win against Barcelona
13/14
2:0 in a 3:1 win away at Manchester City
1:0 (assist) and 3:1 (goal) away at ZSKA Moscow
1:0 in a 2:3 loss at home against Manchester City
2:0 in a 2:0 win away against Arsenal (final of 16)
2:1 in a 3:1 win at home against Manchester United (QF)
14/15
1:0 in a 1:0 win away at ZSKA Moscow
2:0 (assist), 3 or 4:0 goal away at AS Rome
1:0 in a 3:0 win home against ZSKA Moscow
1:0 and 4:0 in a 7:0 win home against Donezk (final of 16)
3:0 (assist), 4:0 (goal), 5:0 assist in a 6:1 home win against Porto (QF)
3:2 in a 3:2 win home against Barcelona (SF)
His CL stats aren't because of goals at home against the Pilsens etc. of the world. He did not have goals e.g. in the 5:0 wins against Pilsen or Lille at home. There is a lot of crucial goals and goals or assists against top opponents...
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Müller is not available. He might be the square peg in the round hole in that team as he is "chaos", he is not a midfielder, he is not controllable for a control freak that Guardiola seems to be. But even if he rarely can really play out his strengths in that system - he is still the most productive and the guy with the most decisive actions. Sometimes you wish to know how it would be if the situation was different.
If there is even the slightest chance that we could get him we should bid £60m now and see what happens.
Rumours are that Guardiola wants Di Maria and I know everyone always says 'swap deals never happen' - but perhaps this one time?
Rumours are that Guardiola wants Di Maria and I know everyone always says 'swap deals never happen' - but perhaps this one time?
If we are in for any Bayern players he is the only one mentioned in the rumours I want to have here. Robben is great as well but too old. Schweinsteiger is past his peak and Götze is overrated.
So to say it with Guardiola`s words before they signed Thiago: "Müller oder nix. Him or nothing".
So to say it with Guardiola`s words before they signed Thiago: "Müller oder nix. Him or nothing".
He's better than any player currently in the PL. Would be a ridiculous signing, which is exactly why it won't happen. Bayern would have to be brain-dead to even think about selling him.
I think he's a perfect compliment, and potential long term replacement, for Rooney. His mobility, passing, finishing and vision remind me of a younger Rooney (by no means am I saying they're the same, just similar aspects). I also really rate Kane though, he reminds me much more of a young Shearer or Lineker. If the club really are after these players, that is fantastic news.
Agüero, Hazard, Silva and Sanchez are better than him.
Nah, I'd take Muller over all of them with zero hesitation.
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