Avoid the vax man, covid is fake news, I read that on Facebook and its 100 pc true.
The vaccines | vaxxed boosted unvaxxed? New poll
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That’s not really how science works. And the most fundamental part of this is a scientific endeavour.
Ignoring the rest of your post, you might consider that it isn't Big Pharma and the government. It is a combination of global pharmaceutical industries and research/development which spans universities around the world and every government in every country, including the socialist ones, or the ones which come closest to socialism. Either the entire world and its collective weight of expert knowledge, regardless of political division between individual countries which produce this knowledge, is wrong or you are right. Which is more likely?
I think boosters are only going to happen when Moderna and Pfizer can supply vaccines that have been tweaked to work better with the variants of concern. As far as I've heard a booster of the same vaccine isn't required (or at least not so soon).
sancho7 is that you?
I don't trust them because I believe they are corrupt. So the question should be either the world is corrupt and rotten to the core or it is not. Which is more likely? You believe corruption is rare and politicians and billionaires care. I do not. They are corrupt and care only about money and power.
okay!
You are. Utterly and completely.
That depends on if you catch covid. Others taking the vaccine will help to some degree (free rider effect)
No as I assume you have been isolating and modifying your behaviour during the pandemic. PArt is still random chance but that isn't the same as luck.
If we could predict who would catch it and when then we could just immunie those individuals. As I'm sure you know that isn't how it works.
And if you get it you will have spread it to numerous others who will in turn have spread it and predominatly old people will die. Personally I couldn't have that on my concience.
It isn't just about you. That is so self absorbed and selfish it is stunning.
WTF are you on about? In the UK the chances of catching covid and being harmed, even if young, are far greater than the risks of harm from a vaccine. And by us getting vaccinated we are all protecting each other and our kids and grandparents, who either aren't getting vaccinated or don't produce as good an immune reaction as the rest of us. Your self obsession and conspiracy theory bullshit are endangering others. Pull your head out of your arse and get vaccinated.
No. I believe the world to be very corrupt but there's a logic to it. For instance, it's estimated that the superrich have buried away something in the order of 50 trillion dollars in offshore bank accounts over the past decade or two. That's not a made up figure, either.
Meanwhile, the sales per annum of all the major vaccine producers combined total less than 100 billion dollars. That's not even equivalent to the worth of one of the corporations that manufacture these vaccines (Pfizer made a profit of 20bn prior to the vaccine)
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...erna-whos-making-billions-from-covid-vaccines
The world is corrupt and a couple hundred billion isn't a small sum over a projected period of five years, but it's a very small sum in terms of actual offshore levels of corruption. Also, some of these vaccines are being dispersed on an IP-free basis. That means there is little to no profit to be made, or a nominal amount in any case.
Not trusting a system you cannot personally audit isn't illogical but that's the nature of modern society. All systems of mass production run on an assembly line logic which disaggregates personal autonomy in favour of split and fractured fordist systems of production. There is no artisan vaccine maker.
Oh yeah, and the actual cost to the global economy, of worldwide lock-down, has been of orders far greater than the profit made from any vaccine or collection thereof. The best you could argue is that Covid offered a convenient or inconvenient moment within which to restructure global systems of production. That is true, at least. It's also an open conspiracy as everyone knows about it. Your problem is between correlation and causation.
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I highly recommend to not bother with this clown. He‘s a lost case and made his decision. He has enough evidence at hand already, talking to him won‘t change a damn
To be honest, all of us who are living in highly vaccinated countries should be feeling lucky.
I saw this one of Facebook too. Looks encouraging for the UK at least. And speaks to the efficacy of the vaccination program here.
how long does the pain in the arm from Pfizer jab generally last.
on another note why do these anti vaxers not think cynically, because billionaires don’t play the short game or checkers they play the long game and chess, they wouldn’t fake a virus when there is already a worldwide vaccine program for normal viruses. In saying this I do not think there is any nefarious things going into the normal pre Covid vaccines just an example of a cynical view of why Covid is real.
on another note why do these anti vaxers not think cynically, because billionaires don’t play the short game or checkers they play the long game and chess, they wouldn’t fake a virus when there is already a worldwide vaccine program for normal viruses. In saying this I do not think there is any nefarious things going into the normal pre Covid vaccines just an example of a cynical view of why Covid is real.
That is one of the shittest attempts at reasoning I've seen for a long time, even judged against other low-life conspiratorial pseudo-scepticism from the webs.
If you don't want to Vax and you care little for the safety of those around you then fine, I guess you can do what you want. But please lay off the crack pipe, buy some velcro shoes and quit it with this gobbledygook. Obviously no one with half an idea would mistake it as advice but it's obnoxious enough that it could easily upset people who have suffered under the pandemic.
"I would have to trust Big Pharma and the government more than I trust my own immune system"
I mean what the feck am I reading?
By the same logic just promise to not got to hospital if you ever get sick cuz doctors are corrupt, hospital systems are corrupt. And guess what hospitals use drugs made by? You guessed it big pharma.
Mine lasted no more than 2 days
That's interesting. Have you ever had anti biotics in your life? Do you brush your teeth with so called 'helpful' flouride? All big corrupt companies dontchaknow.
Even the talk of needing a vaccine certificate to get into restaurants is prompting some of my skeptical friends into getting it. I really hope it becomes law here like in France. We will find out this week.
Firstly, it does seem a lot of people jump straight to insults on this topic when someone has a different opinion, strange way of communicating.
You also don't know the risks of harm from a vaccine without long trials, you have no clue and that's the basis of your whole analysis.
He doesn't help himself with his reasoning, logic or examples but I don't understand the stance of people here. Redcafe has always been a fairly tolerant place where people can express their opinions without a barrage of abuse. What's changed? Can he not hold a different opinion to you?
This has been answered multiple times in this thread alone.
Respectfully I disagree, unless you can look into the future, you can't pretend to know long term effects, it's that simple.
All you can do is sensibly evaluate based on the information you have and I'm not saying I agree with the poster everyone was disagreeing with but I want him to have the right to express his opinion without this vitriol.
I saw his immune system posting flat earth theories on facebook so now what do we do?
We do know the risks. Very precisely in most cases. We had normal safety trials for covid vaccines. Vaccines sometimes have side effects that aren't found in trials but they aren't "long term" and they aren't due to a lack of testing, but purely a function of the being so rare. So rare you need to administer 10's or 100's of millions of does before a handful of adverse side effects emerge. Vaccines are not drugs where long term side effects can be both rare like vaccines and/or due to long term use e.g.bioaccumulation.
And this wasn't even what was being suggested. This was just batshit crazy conspiracy theory not worth anything other than being dismissed out of hand. And not only is it nonsense but it is dangerous nonsense. All opinions are not equal.
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Pretty sure vaccines in their history have never had a 'long term effect' happen years down the line. It either happens pretty soon afterwards or not at all.
We don't know the long term effects of mobile phones yet. What if they give me testicle lumps 120 years from now?
The vaccines you are referring to have undergone much longer testing trials, even a simple google on average testing length of vaccines equate to multiple years.
Correct because side effects always emerge fairly soon after a vaccine is administered so rare ones are just rare and not actually long-term. It is only to do with sample size.
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The length of time from the beginning of a development process to the end tells you nothing about the sampling regime. Covid safety testing was exactly the same as for other vaccines. We were just able to make the gaps between starting trials and distribution shorter, partly due to having so many people with covid to take part in trials. We also weren't delayed by funding and manufacturing started before trials finished to speed things up but at the risk of having to throw millions of dollars of product away if trials failed. Authorisation was sped up but not safety trials.
We don't fully know the long term effects of long covid yet. The information we have is that it could be nasty to the point of being life-changing, and last a long time, maybe in some cases forever.
So a bit of vitriol for those who won't vaccinate and don't care if they infect anyone else is the least they can expect in my opinion.
Vaccines have always historically shown their effects within 6 months so although we obviously don't know for sure what happens in 10 years we can look at the data like you have suggested and take a hypotheses from that. Because of the pandemic this vaccine is also being used way more widely than historical vaccinations so the data coming out of real world usage will be more accurate.
I agree about the vitriol to an extent though. Sometimes people can just be misinformed or need some guidance and an arm round the shoulder to make them more comfortable. The "us against them" from both sides is not really helpful. The more people we can educate from people who are reluctant the better. That's not going to be such a huge issue in the UK where vaccination rates are high, but there are some countries where we will be lucky to get 50% vaccination rates never mind 80 or 90%.
I'm going to assume that this would also be an immune system built on childhood vaccinations and assisted by less conspiratorial Big Pharma medicines such as paracetamol and ibuprofen?
I tore in because it's the type of crap that gets parroted across the internet by ill-informed belligerent people and helps buoy these little communities that in turn are capable of doing serious harm. Furthermore it's that bastardisation of Scepticism, Science and maths that I personally find very irksome. The appeal to some self-serving, fictional versions of what are serious pursuits, with rules and standards, creates mountains of misinformation that are often impossible to wade through.
Being wrong can be corrected. Being wrong within a densely packed labyrinth of error and irrationality is a much harder, more time consuming thing to remedy. So I vent my exasperation.
Welcome to the internet.
But let's be frank here. It is daft to be skeptical of a vaccine based on the analysis of non experts, when it's in such direct contrast to experts the world over. Forget politicians and their parrots, actual scientific experts who dedicate their lives to studying this stuff. I don't think I've seen a single credible person recommend against the vaccines. It's always somebody in a different area of study or a random family doctor, if it's in the medical field at all. Would you trust an Orthopaedic surgeon to operate on your heart? No. Would you trust a fecking bricklayer from Facebook to do it? Hell no. So why would you trust these people to advise you on Covid vaccines then?
Plus there is but a handful of vaccines made in the last 50 years that maybe, but not known with certainty, have long term side effects. Everything comes out in the first few months.
UK government confirm that the Pfizer vaccine will be made available to 17 year olds who are within three months of their eighteenth birthday. That move effectively offers the vaccine to ones who are on their way to college/uni/work in the autumn.
12-17s with certain risk factors and clinical conditions or who live with immune suppressed people can also get the vaccine.
JCVI are continuing to monitor data (from the US mostly) on the 12-17s, particularly for those receiving dose two. Presumably they're keeping a close on the myocarditis reports.
12-17s with certain risk factors and clinical conditions or who live with immune suppressed people can also get the vaccine.
JCVI are continuing to monitor data (from the US mostly) on the 12-17s, particularly for those receiving dose two. Presumably they're keeping a close on the myocarditis reports.
Good news. I hope this year's crop of new students have a better time than the last lot.
That makes sense in terms of the announcement about needing to be double vaccinated to get into some places like clubs. It means they can get in from their 18th birthday rather than wait 3 months. When they announced it I thought they'd have to do something about that, but then read this.
Woot. Just got my second shot of AZ. Joining that exclusive group of fully vaccinated Australians.
Got my second dose booked for July 27th. Probably Pfizer.
Fortunately the worst of the side effects from my second dose only lasted about 24 hours.