The vaccines | vaxxed boosted unvaxxed? New poll

How's your immunity looking? Had covid - vote twice - vax status and then again for infection status

  • Vaxxed but no booster

  • Boostered

  • Still waiting in queue for first vaccine dose

  • Won't get vaxxed (unless I have to for travel/work etc)

  • Past infection with covid + I've been vaccinated

  • Past infection with covid - I've not been vaccinated


Results are only viewable after voting.
Big Pharma has a lot to answer for :)
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Had my 2nd Moderna at 3pm yesterday.
Arm slightly tender and sweating profusely last night.
Better now.
Saying that it was two days after the first one where the agony arm kicked in.
 
I feel a bit guilty that we all get the vaccine just because of where we live while as always the third world countries get absolutely fecked at the same time.
 
I feel a bit guilty that we all get the vaccine just because of where we live while as always the third world countries get absolutely fecked at the same time.

You could apply that logic to most things though. I donate monthly to Fairshare, but there’s obviously children far worse off in other countries who would probably benefit more.

But yeah, I do understand what you’re saying. I’m assuming the stuff with the patents would help this? I haven’t followed it that closely.
 
First trip to the shop today. I was the only one wearing a mask :lol: Bit annoying because I'm not really protected if nobody else is wearing one.
 
Got my first Pfizer on sunday, just a sore arm.
 
You could apply that logic to most things though. I donate monthly to Fairshare, but there’s obviously children far worse off in other countries who would probably benefit more.

But yeah, I do understand what you’re saying. I’m assuming the stuff with the patents would help this? I haven’t followed it that closely.
Oxford/AZ is already effectively patent free. Moderna have said they won't enforce any patents on vaccines for pandemic use. The inactivated virus type vaccines didn't require specialised IP - China, India, Cuba, Russia all produce their own versions.

Pfizer have defended their product more, mostly citing the fact that they use specialised raw materials, production equipment and deep freezes. They argue that new factories ramping up (independent of them) could damage their supply chain. Given they've become one of the world's most reliable suppliers, it's not a minor worry - even if it's primarily motivated by their business desires.

The patent thing is great for headlines, but probably irrelevant in terms of production so far. Neither AZ nor Moderna actually ramped up production as fast as they'd promised - because it's a hard thing to do. J&J are still having problems. China, for all the fuss made about soft power and headline emergency deliveries, only started exporting high volumes in May/June.

Novavax have pre-sold more than a billion doses - and licenced factories in a dozen countries. But none of the factories (not even the US one) is actually manufacturing successfully, despite successful phase 3 trials.

What we can do about "next time" and making sure that Africa, South America don't have to wait for the leftovers from Europe and the US is a different matter.
 


Have to say this is a bit of a head melter. More vaccines = more cases.

My own theory is that UK is the delta epicentre. The further away you are, the longer it will take to get a delta surge. And the furthest away countries also happen to have lowest vaccine uptake. Be interesting to revisit this in another couple of months.
 


Have to say this is a bit of a head melter. More vaccines = more cases.

My own theory is that UK is the delta epicentre. The further away you are, the longer it will take to get a delta surge. And the furthest away countries also happen to have lowest vaccine uptake. Be interesting to revisit this in another couple of months.

That's in the European context though. Where Delta hits an unvaxxed country it's a tough enemy, even though in general the populations are younger. Russia aren't a high vax rate country but they're not in great shape either.

The stronger a country's ties with the UK or the Indian subcontinent - the earlier they got Delta cases, and the more seed cases they got.

Meanwhile, Eastern Europe in particular, mostly didn't get that badly in the March/May 2020 - but they still got hit hard by Alpha at the start of this year. A similar pattern may repeat. Plus, countries like Czech Republic now have lots of people with infection based immunity in top of their vaxxed immunity.

It takes people moving around to create enough seed cases to really take off. Spain got hit as soon as it tried to restart its tourist sector - not just due to UK visitors, Spanish school/college students flocked to the coast and the islands. Great breaches but also perfect super-spreader environments in some of the clubs and in packed hotels targeting the young, free and single.
 
Had my 2nd Moderna at 3pm yesterday.
Arm slightly tender and sweating profusely last night.
Better now.
Saying that it was two days after the first one where the agony arm kicked in.

jesus I am in a heap now.
Hands and Feet freezing, lower legs aching and feel like I am about to projectile vomit!!
 
jesus I am in a heap now.
Hands and Feet freezing, lower legs aching and feel like I am about to projectile vomit!!

Shame that you've had to suffer twice. I got the feeling of projectile vomiting after the second one too. That went after a few hours though.

On the bright side, you've got internal air conditioning of your hands and feet when the weather's is at its hottest.
 
Shame that you've had to suffer twice. I got the feeling of projectile vomiting after the second one too. That went after a few hours though.

On the bright side, you've got internal air conditioning of your hands and feet when the weather's is at it's hottest.

true:p
 
First trip to the shop today. I was the only one wearing a mask :lol: Bit annoying because I'm not really protected if nobody else is wearing one.

Really? I went to Co op yesterday and everyone was wearing one. I was quite surprised though.

Oxford/AZ is already effectively patent free. Moderna have said they won't enforce any patents on vaccines for pandemic use. The inactivated virus type vaccines didn't require specialised IP - China, India, Cuba, Russia all produce their own versions.

Pfizer have defended their product more, mostly citing the fact that they use specialised raw materials, production equipment and deep freezes. They argue that new factories ramping up (independent of them) could damage their supply chain. Given they've become one of the world's most reliable suppliers, it's not a minor worry - even if it's primarily motivated by their business desires.

The patent thing is great for headlines, but probably irrelevant in terms of production so far. Neither AZ nor Moderna actually ramped up production as fast as they'd promised - because it's a hard thing to do. J&J are still having problems. China, for all the fuss made about soft power and headline emergency deliveries, only started exporting high volumes in May/June.

Novavax have pre-sold more than a billion doses - and licenced factories in a dozen countries. But none of the factories (not even the US one) is actually manufacturing successfully, despite successful phase 3 trials.

What we can do about "next time" and making sure that Africa, South America don't have to wait for the leftovers from Europe and the US is a different matter.

Thanks for the info. How long can those countries expect to be waiting for a good supply? Or is that dependant on whether western countries go ahead with boosters etc?
 
how long does the pain in the arm from Pfizer jab generally last.

on another note why do these anti vaxers not think cynically, because billionaires don’t play the short game or checkers they play the long game and chess, they wouldn’t fake a virus when there is already a worldwide vaccine program for normal viruses. In saying this I do not think there is any nefarious things going into the normal pre Covid vaccines just an example of a cynical view of why Covid is real.

I had my 2nd Pfizer yesterday at 8am and have had a bit of a sore arm from about 6 hours after but seems to be subsiding a bit since the 24 hour mark. No other real symptoms except a bit of tiredness which may or may not be related. Did you have yours the other day?

Mine was at one of the walk in centres, looks like they're now all over the country if people aren't aware (I'm sure most are!). Unfortunately my gf was still two days short of 8 weeks since her first dose so got turned away :wenger: what a muppet.
 
From BBC regarding the 60:40

Reports of vaccinated people ending up in hospital causes alarm.

On Monday, chief scientific adviser Sir Patrick Vallance revealed that around 60% of hospitalisations were among people who are unvaccinated.

So that means for every 60 unvaccinated people hospitalised, about 40 who have been vaccinated are also ending up in hospital. Does that mean the vaccines are not working very well? Absolutely not.

That’s because for every 60 unvaccinated people, there are about 440 vaccinated adults in the population.

So that means the numbers of vaccinated people in hospital are at least 10 times lower than they would be if the vaccines did not work at all.

The 60:40 ratio therefore suggests the vaccines are a little over 90% effective at keeping people out of hospital.

But the news is even better than that. The figures are skewed by the fact the people who are most likely to be unvaccinated are the younger age groups - the ones least likely to end up in hospital.

If you factor that in the vaccines look to be well above 90% effective at keeping people out of hospital – bang in line with what all the research suggests.
 
Thanks for the info. How long can those countries expect to be waiting for a good supply? Or is that dependant on whether western countries go ahead with boosters etc?
Assuming we can continue using current formulations, and the rich countries start donating, it could be sometime in 2022. There's even a possibility that the risk groups could be done this year - if governments can handle it well enough.

That's based on current stats that suggest about 2b have had at least 1 dose and more than 1b have had a full course. The US, UK, EU are more or less now producing at planned capacity, and that means more doses than they need (even with boosters) - though not always the vaccine mix they want. That's only just happened though. Same appears to be true of China. India, who were going to supply a big chunk of the Covax/GAVI production aren't back to exporting yet - but may get there in Q4.

In other words, production is ramping up and the western producers are close to vaccinating as many people in their own countries as want it. That should mean improved availability in Q3 and a bigger leap again in Q4.

Of course as WHO keep trying to remind people, the vaccines can make a huge difference right now. Waiting until we've all had our double doses, built buffer stocks with a couple of different vaccines as potential boosters, or for vaccinating kids - before exporting in large volume - it will mean leaving it too late for millions.
 
I had my 2nd Pfizer yesterday at 8am and have had a bit of a sore arm from about 6 hours after but seems to be subsiding a bit since the 24 hour mark. No other real symptoms except a bit of tiredness which may or may not be related. Did you have yours the other day?

Mine was at one of the walk in centres, looks like they're now all over the country if people aren't aware (I'm sure most are!). Unfortunately my gf was still two days short of 8 weeks since her first dose so got turned away :wenger: what a muppet.
Had mine on Sunday, was even wondering did I get injected for a while as I felt nothing :lol:, most of the pain is pretty much gone.
 
If I am wrong to distrust Big Pharma and the government and everything about this pandemic is genuine, surely I will be in hospital this winter with Covid, right? I cannot say I've never had Covid because I might have caught it without having any symptoms, but I can say that I haven't been ill since I had a cold in late 2018/early 2019. Is this just luck? Is my luck about to run out? If I carry on exactly as I have done for the past 18 months, avoiding tests, avoiding jabs and avoiding the media, will I finally get Covid this winter? What happens if I don't? Is it just more good luck? If I finally get Covid with symptoms and die this winter, that's the end of it, my immune system failed and I'm dead. If I finally get Covid with symptoms this winter, but don't die and I instead recover, it means my immune system prevailed and I would then have natural immunity. In order for me to ever entertain the idea of having a vaccine I would have to trust Big Pharma and the government more than I trust my own immune system. Is that likely to ever happen? It's possible that I could get Covid and die from Covid. That is true. However, I cannot die from any side effect from the vaccine and I cannot be damaged by any side effect of the vaccine if I never have the vaccine. It may be true that the side effects are extremely rare and so the risk is very low, but no risk is better than low risk. At the moment I can only die from getting Covid, in theory. If I get vaccine, I can die from Covid and/or the vaccine. You say the vaccine lowers the risk from Covid because they say the vaccine lowers the risk from Covid. They are Big Pharma. They are the government. You don't know anything, you simply trust. I don't know anything, I simply don't trust. Everything boils down to trust. You all trust, I do not. Time will tell whether it was right to trust or not.

Forget “big pharma” or “the government”, those are abstractions. I don’t trust Johnson at all, but then I don’t need to.I trust the expertise of doctors and epidemiologists over my own. I’ve had the vaccine because I don’t trust my immune system in these matters, and I think there’s plenty of evidence that the vaccines are safe - in fact, not just safe but medical miracles. Be practical, get yourself injected, and stop trying to outthink an infectious disease.
 
Very worrying seeing some of these people that have developed motor issues and lost all ability to walk with constant shaking of the lower body after 2nd Pfizer jab,

Now I am so far from being a person with a tin foil hat and will be getting my 2nd Pfizer jab in 4 weeks as it stands and usually haven't thought twice about it, but i'd be lying if i said I wasn't slightly more nervous after seeing more and more of these symptoms appearing in people,

Am i being too blase about it and should really think about it more ? Anyone else due a 2nd Pfizer jab and concerned at all ? anyone on the caf had any major side effects ?
 
No. I believe the world to be very corrupt but there's a logic to it. For instance, it's estimated that the superrich have buried away something in the order of 50 trillion dollars in offshore bank accounts over the past decade or two. That's not a made up figure, either.

Meanwhile, the sales per annum of all the major vaccine producers combined total less than 100 billion dollars. That's not even equivalent to the worth of one of the corporations that manufacture these vaccines (Pfizer made a profit of 20bn prior to the vaccine)

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...erna-whos-making-billions-from-covid-vaccines

The world is corrupt and a couple hundred billion isn't a small sum over a projected period of five years, but it's a very small sum in terms of actual offshore levels of corruption. Also, some of these vaccines are being dispersed on an IP-free basis. That means there is little to no profit to be made, or a nominal amount in any case.

Not trusting a system you cannot personally audit isn't illogical but that's the nature of modern society. All systems of mass production run on an assembly line logic which disaggregates personal autonomy in favour of split and fractured fordist systems of production. There is no artisan vaccine maker.

Oh yeah, and the actual cost to the global economy, of worldwide lock-down, has been of orders far greater than the profit made from any vaccine or collection thereof. The best you could argue is that Covid offered a convenient or inconvenient moment within which to restructure global systems of production. That is true, at least. It's also an open conspiracy as everyone knows about it. Your problem is between correlation and causation.
You are being rational to an irrational person, and you are using big numbers to someone who cannot comprehend numbers.

The intention is nice, but you will just go with him in a never-ending loop that science and trust is the same thing, data and opinion is the same thing and you are a sheep while he is enlightened. The only thing that post deserves is sarcasm and belittling.
 
Very worrying seeing some of these people that have developed motor issues and lost all ability to walk with constant shaking of the lower body after 2nd Pfizer jab,

Now I am so far from being a person with a tin foil hat and will be getting my 2nd Pfizer jab in 4 weeks as it stands and usually haven't thought twice about it, but i'd be lying if i said I wasn't slightly more nervous after seeing more and more of these symptoms appearing in people,

Am i being too blase about it and should really think about it more ? Anyone else due a 2nd Pfizer jab and concerned at all ? anyone on the caf had any major side effects ?

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html

You can go through that to look at data in USA.

I do not know of any cases of motor issues after Pfizer.

It is rare but there are some reports of GBS after J&J. We had one patient, last I saw him he was recovering very well.
 
Very worrying seeing some of these people that have developed motor issues and lost all ability to walk with constant shaking of the lower body after 2nd Pfizer jab,

Now I am so far from being a person with a tin foil hat and will be getting my 2nd Pfizer jab in 4 weeks as it stands and usually haven't thought twice about it, but i'd be lying if i said I wasn't slightly more nervous after seeing more and more of these symptoms appearing in people,

Am i being too blase about it and should really think about it more ? Anyone else due a 2nd Pfizer jab and concerned at all ? anyone on the caf had any major side effects ?

Wife and I both had our 2nd Pfizer jabs six weeks ago, no side effects at all, not even a sore arm.
 
I'm sure it's a terrible occurrence but Instagram and other social media sites aren't very reliable sources.

Yeh i know was just pointing someone in the right direction, its human nature to fear things like this when thrown in front of you and ignore the 100million plus people that are completely fine.
 
Yeh i know was just pointing someone in the right direction, its human nature to fear things like this when thrown in front of you and ignore the 100million plus people that are completely fine.

Yeah not being critical of you just highlighting that social media is where shit tends to snowball and what is an isolated and rare occurrence suddenly adds to the credibility of covid deniers, anti-vaxxers etc.
 
Had my 2nd jab today with a walk-in. Don’t understand why they don’t just shorten the gap between jabs officilly, trying to find a place that did Moderna jabs felt like trying to find a dealer for some good ecstasy.
 
Its going around all social media atm especially one girl on instagram, its a handful of people at most

https://www.instagram.com/georgiaroses/

I read about these, there are a handful of people on social media claiming to have had the same. When they've been contacted for further medical investigation they have refused to cooperate or taken all references to it down.

Fact is it could be anything from totally made up, a completely unrelated coincidence, or a very, very rare side effect. If its the latter, it won't be long before regulators say something about it. They haven't hidden away from any other side effects.

There was some talk in the US that it was a known side effect of stress and anxiety related to the vaccine, not the vaccine itself. What was in the needle could have been anything.
 
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Probably, but you can see why I'm concerned. I got heart disease in my family. Some BBC presenter died after taking the Oxford vaccine. I'll probably take it eventually, just gonna wait.
I and my brothers have hereditary heart disease,. including a gene that can lead to dilated cardiomyopathy. As you’re probably aware, I’ve had quadruple bypass, aortic valve replaced, ablations and on a lifetime of drugs. We’ve all had our vaccinations with no issues. Get them into you. There’s more risk for you not having them.
 
Not everyone who refuses to vaccinate against Covid is a general "anti-vaxxer". Smallpox has a lethality of 30 %, even higher among small children and babies.

With Covid over 40 % don't even notice that they have it and it mainly kills the 70+. For a healthy 29 year old the chance to die from Covid is less than 1:100,000.

So I have no issues with smallpox vaccinations or Covid vaccinations for the vulnerable but I'm not going to take an experimental vaccine against a 1:100,000 chance for my age group.

Now Biontech/Pfizer say that a 3rd vaccination will be needed and after another 6 - 12 months they'll magically figure out that you'll need a yearly vaccination like against the flu even though this was negated a few months ago.
A 30 year old died on our estate, no underlying conditions. Think on that. You know how he got it?he got his house robbed Christmas Eve. A load of do-gooders from the estate had a constant stream of people going to give them something for the kids Christmas. Very little masks amongst them. Next thing he’s very sick in hospital and died fairly quickly.
Don’t be a statistic

taking a vaccine will help the whole community reach a safe point quicker.
 
Not everyone who refuses to vaccinate against Covid is a general "anti-vaxxer". Smallpox has a lethality of 30 %, even higher among small children and babies.

There are indeed other explanations. All silly or selfish or both of course.