I got my first jab 5 weeks ago, and literally just got a text message at 11pm (On a Saturday of all times) to book my next appointment for next week. I presume there's no issue getting it after 6 weeks instead of what was going to be after 12 and then 8 weeks.
The vaccines | vaxxed boosted unvaxxed? New poll
- Thread starter Badunk
- Start date
No issue and there’s good medical logic to it. A worrisome variant is spreading, single doses appear to be less effective in this one than the variant they based the initial strategy on, and they want to accelerate the second doses among particularly important groups or regions, so where there is availability it makes sense to shorten the dosage gap. That’s the epidemiological / zoomed out perspective.
For you as an individual, there is some evidence that the immune response you get after 6 weeks is less than what you get after 12 weeks, based on AZ’s trials. And there is some less specific evidence that a longer gap between vaccine doses, for non-covid stuff, generally produces a more substantial immune response. But that evidence includes comparisons in dosing gaps that are 2 years apart vs 1 year apart, never mind 6 weeks vs 12 weeks. So you can take that argument in a lot of directions.
The reality is that the difference in immune response between 6 weeks and 12 weeks is substantial in terms of antibody levels, but almost entirely irrelevant in terms of levels of protection. You’ve already passed that “protected” threshold earlier than 6 weeks. That’s an oversimplification but essentially true, based on all the available evidence.
The main difference is likely in longevity: the greater antibodies you get after dose 2 will take longer to decline, so protection will last a bit longer if you space it out more. That’s an even greater simplification but is loosely supported by the best data we have right now, if you accept a couple of foundational assumptions based on the covid trial data (mostly AZ as it has the most variety), some limited but very positive international, real-world covid vaccine efficacy studies, and some historical non-covid vaccine dosing phase retrospective assessments.
Even accepting that, we don’t know the baseline longevity of these vaccines so slightly longer protection could be a very marginal benefit. It might last years, so an extra year might not matter much. Or it might last a year, in which case you’ll need a booster anyway, and an extra month won’t count for much either. Weighed up against the risk of being vaccinated with a single dose while the pandemic is still in a dangerous phase, those potential benefits are much smaller than the potential risks. For you as an individual and for society.
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Temporary Body Storage Service
Publication date: 10 June 2021
II.2.4) Description of the procurement
The Authority seeks to procure a framework agreement for temporary body storage in the event of an excess deaths situation for the 32 London boroughs and the City of London, led by Westminster City Council. The framework agreement will appoint a single provider and will be for a period of 4 years. This will be a contingency contract, only called upon in the event that an excess deaths situation arises in the future and existing local body storage capacity needs to be augmented.
The over-arching aim of this tender is to provide a single framework supplier that will be able to provide temporary body storage facilities to house deceased in the event of an excess deaths situation. The deceased will be stored with dignity and respect, at locations to be determined based on local London needs at the time and will require some design elements to accommodate local site conditions and constraints, while being capable of rapid deployment, construction and commissioning to an agreed standard. This framework will be procured by the Authority as the pan-London lead, but all London local authorities may call-off against the framework.
This will be a contingency cover framework and as such there is no minimum guarantee of any level of spend or call-off under the framework agreement.
The Authority will be hiring the structures and associated items, which will be decommissioned and removed at the end of the requirement.
https://www.find-tender.service.gov.uk/Notice/013120-2021?origin=SearchResults&p=1
If over 80% of all adults have been vaccinated and over 90% of adults most at risk have been double vaccinated, why would the Government need to prepare for the possibility of an excess deaths situation now in June 2021?
- Westminster City Council
Publication date: 10 June 2021
II.2.4) Description of the procurement
The Authority seeks to procure a framework agreement for temporary body storage in the event of an excess deaths situation for the 32 London boroughs and the City of London, led by Westminster City Council. The framework agreement will appoint a single provider and will be for a period of 4 years. This will be a contingency contract, only called upon in the event that an excess deaths situation arises in the future and existing local body storage capacity needs to be augmented.
The over-arching aim of this tender is to provide a single framework supplier that will be able to provide temporary body storage facilities to house deceased in the event of an excess deaths situation. The deceased will be stored with dignity and respect, at locations to be determined based on local London needs at the time and will require some design elements to accommodate local site conditions and constraints, while being capable of rapid deployment, construction and commissioning to an agreed standard. This framework will be procured by the Authority as the pan-London lead, but all London local authorities may call-off against the framework.
This will be a contingency cover framework and as such there is no minimum guarantee of any level of spend or call-off under the framework agreement.
The Authority will be hiring the structures and associated items, which will be decommissioned and removed at the end of the requirement.
https://www.find-tender.service.gov.uk/Notice/013120-2021?origin=SearchResults&p=1
If over 80% of all adults have been vaccinated and over 90% of adults most at risk have been double vaccinated, why would the Government need to prepare for the possibility of an excess deaths situation now in June 2021?
Because they should always be prepared for stuff like this? They should have been prepared for this pandemic in the first place but it sounds like those preparations were dismantled a few years ago.
I guess the concern is that they haven’t shown any foresight so far so why are they beginning to now? Is it really foresight this time or are they reacting to something?
I have just been jabbed and have achieved my final form. Beep boop.
The phrase contingency should be the most obvious point here which you’ve skimmed over.
Despite it have no link to vaccination rates, which you’ve weirdly included to try to justify some big scam, a framework procurement process in the middle of an emergency makes no sense due to the lengthy nature of those processes.
Having appointed suppliers on standby for when the worst could happen, cuts time for when it needs to be deployed.
I see (it may already have been mentioned here) that a combined flu/Covid vaccine is being developed, using the mRNA technology. It suggests it won't be available until next year, which will be too late for this year's flu season, but in any event it's an extremely smart thing to do.
Novavax (protein subunit) have just finished their first round of testing for one as well. They have a covid vaccine and a flu vaccine - so initially it's literally just a combination.
They ran a small combination trial alongside the phase 3 trial in the UK as well. But that was the standard UK flu shot being given at the same time as the covid first jab (or covid jab placebo) rather than them combined in the same syringe. They used that the test if it had any impact on antibody levels for the two jabs and any extra side-effects. First results say that it worked fine, and didn't impact efficacy or safety - but obviously that will need larger scale trials.
Just got my first Biontech shot. Germany ist horribly slow at rolling out the vaccines, but finally feels like some progress on a personal level.
So far so reactions or anything, but it's been only about an hour.
So far so reactions or anything, but it's been only about an hour.
Got mine on Thursday. Nothing to report but a sore arm for a day or two.
Got my first Pfizer jab about 60 minutes ago (also in the Netherlands)! Took 12 whole minutes from the parking lot walking up to the queue until I had the thing in my arm. And then you have to sit and wait for 15 minutes of course. Nice to see how quickly it all went since it was quite busy.
I wasn't really paying attention just looking around, and I actually didn't notice or feel anything except the woman touching my arm. Just took off the plaster and luckily I saw a little bit of blood on it, because I was starting to wonder if this wasn't some kind of scam.
I actually left after sitting for only 12 minutes. I felt so naughty.
I just had my first Moderna at a centre in Navan.
A little nip is all I felt. No bleed.
Slight pins and needles type sensation at the injection site.....
Very quick, 25 minutes from driving in to driving out - that included the 15 mins wait
A little nip is all I felt. No bleed.
Slight pins and needles type sensation at the injection site.....
Very quick, 25 minutes from driving in to driving out - that included the 15 mins wait
You do know that Pogue is a doctor don't you?
That’s you and your medical degrees and experience shot down @Pogue Mahone
I’m actually impressed Pogue managed to reply without playing the “Bitch, I’m a Doctor,” card.
I know I wouldn’t have been able to hold back. He’s got more self restraint than me
Ouch.
The NHS computer team continue working through the bookings system "things to do" list. They're still looking at adding other vaccination centres etc to the check availability section, but they've made the messages clearer so you know that you aren't cancelling immediately you hit the button.
Interesting graph of vaccination patterns across the UK.
NI have had the booking system open to all over 18s for a while, Wales a week or two, England this week, Scotland nationally still limiting bookings to 30+ only (though it's now 18+ in Glasgow)
Some tactical differences. Wales have been the fastest authority for a while. Scotland have stuck to the strict age/risk order, to encourage a "your turn next" attitude (bet they wish they'd done Billy Gilmour).
I don't know why take-up in NI is lower in comparison to the rest of the UK across there older age groups (their vaccine supply is in the same proportion as the other authorities). Maybe local organisation, maybe hesitancy? Anyone got any info?
NI have had the booking system open to all over 18s for a while, Wales a week or two, England this week, Scotland nationally still limiting bookings to 30+ only (though it's now 18+ in Glasgow)
Some tactical differences. Wales have been the fastest authority for a while. Scotland have stuck to the strict age/risk order, to encourage a "your turn next" attitude (bet they wish they'd done Billy Gilmour).
I don't know why take-up in NI is lower in comparison to the rest of the UK across there older age groups (their vaccine supply is in the same proportion as the other authorities). Maybe local organisation, maybe hesitancy? Anyone got any info?
This is an extract from the Irish Sentinel. Way beyond my pay grade so I'd be grateful if anyone with more knowledge could shed some light onto the matter.
The first-ever autopsy of a person vaccinated against COVID-19, who tested negative 18 days later upon hospital admission but at 24 days after the VAX, has revealed viral RNA was found in almost every organ of the body. The vaccine, while triggering an immune response, DID NOT STOP the virus from entering every organ in the body.
The viral RNA was found in virtually every organ in the body, which means the spike proteins as well.
There are antibodies (like the “vaccine” is supposed to create) but they’re irrelevant because, based on a study from Japan, we now know that the spike S1 protein is what does the damage.
We spoke to one Infectious Disease specialist from a hospital in New Jersey this morning. We sent the actual autopsy findings to him and asked for his thoughts.
He then told us:
“People think that only a MINORITY of people get adverse effects from the vaccine.
Based on this new research, it means that everyone – EVENTUALLY -will have adverse effects, because those spike proteins will be binding to ACE2 receptors everywhere in the body.
That mRNA was supposed to stay in the injection site and it’s not. That means the spike proteins created by the mRNA will be in every organ as well, and we now know it is the spike proteins that do the damage.
Worse, the viral RNA being found in every organ despite a vaccine, indicates either:
1) The vaccine doesn’t work at all, OR;
2) The virus is enjoying Antibody Dependent Enhancement (ADE), meaning it actually spreads FASTER in vaccinated people.
According to the published postmortem report, the vaccinated man was 86 years old and tested NEGATIVE for COVID-19 when first admitted to the hospital with severe gastro-intestinal trouble and difficulty breathing. Here is what the reports describes:
We report on an 86-year-old male resident of a retirement home who received vaccine against SARS-CoV-2. Past medical history included systemic arterial hypertension, chronic venous insufficiency, dementia and prostate carcinoma. On January 9, 2021, the man received lipid nanoparticle-formulated, nucleoside-modified RNA vaccine BNT162b2 in a 30 μg dose. On that day and in the following 2 weeks, he presented with no clinical symptoms (Table 1). On day 18, he was admitted to hospital for worsening diarrhea. Since he did not present with any clinical signs of COVID-19, isolation in a specific setting did not occur. Laboratory testing revealed hypochromic anemia and increased creatinine serum levels. Antigen test and polymerase chain reaction (PCR) for SARS-CoV-2 were negative.
The report of the postmortem makes clear tests showed “no morphological changes associated with COVID” in his organs.
“Morphological” means structural. COVID infection is now known to cause very specific structural changes to the places it infects. THOSE CHANGES HAD NOT APPEARED in the vaccinated man before he died.
The now dead vaccinated man was in a room where another patient ultimately tested POSTIVE for COVID, and the report states they think the dead vaccinated man caught COVID after he was admitted, from the other patient in the same room.
So the damage to the organs of the now dead vaccine recipient, took place BEFORE he was infected with COVID by the other hospital room patient.
Worse, once the vaccinated man actually got COVID, it spread so fast within his body, he apparently never stood a chance. Here are tissue images:
The full postmortem report is published at ScienceDirect.com (HERE)
HAL TURNER COMMENTARY
I am not a Doctor or a Scientist so I cannot offer a competent medical analysis, but as a layman, from where I sit, this doesn’t look so good.
The Postmortem report says clearly “ These results indicate that the patient had already developed relevant immunogenicity through vaccination” yet he got infected by another patient at day 24 (after vax) upon being admitted to the hospital, and died 4 days later.
The first-ever autopsy of a person vaccinated against COVID-19, who tested negative 18 days later upon hospital admission but at 24 days after the VAX, has revealed viral RNA was found in almost every organ of the body. The vaccine, while triggering an immune response, DID NOT STOP the virus from entering every organ in the body.
The viral RNA was found in virtually every organ in the body, which means the spike proteins as well.
There are antibodies (like the “vaccine” is supposed to create) but they’re irrelevant because, based on a study from Japan, we now know that the spike S1 protein is what does the damage.
We spoke to one Infectious Disease specialist from a hospital in New Jersey this morning. We sent the actual autopsy findings to him and asked for his thoughts.
He then told us:
“People think that only a MINORITY of people get adverse effects from the vaccine.
Based on this new research, it means that everyone – EVENTUALLY -will have adverse effects, because those spike proteins will be binding to ACE2 receptors everywhere in the body.
That mRNA was supposed to stay in the injection site and it’s not. That means the spike proteins created by the mRNA will be in every organ as well, and we now know it is the spike proteins that do the damage.
Worse, the viral RNA being found in every organ despite a vaccine, indicates either:
1) The vaccine doesn’t work at all, OR;
2) The virus is enjoying Antibody Dependent Enhancement (ADE), meaning it actually spreads FASTER in vaccinated people.
According to the published postmortem report, the vaccinated man was 86 years old and tested NEGATIVE for COVID-19 when first admitted to the hospital with severe gastro-intestinal trouble and difficulty breathing. Here is what the reports describes:
We report on an 86-year-old male resident of a retirement home who received vaccine against SARS-CoV-2. Past medical history included systemic arterial hypertension, chronic venous insufficiency, dementia and prostate carcinoma. On January 9, 2021, the man received lipid nanoparticle-formulated, nucleoside-modified RNA vaccine BNT162b2 in a 30 μg dose. On that day and in the following 2 weeks, he presented with no clinical symptoms (Table 1). On day 18, he was admitted to hospital for worsening diarrhea. Since he did not present with any clinical signs of COVID-19, isolation in a specific setting did not occur. Laboratory testing revealed hypochromic anemia and increased creatinine serum levels. Antigen test and polymerase chain reaction (PCR) for SARS-CoV-2 were negative.
The report of the postmortem makes clear tests showed “no morphological changes associated with COVID” in his organs.
“Morphological” means structural. COVID infection is now known to cause very specific structural changes to the places it infects. THOSE CHANGES HAD NOT APPEARED in the vaccinated man before he died.
The now dead vaccinated man was in a room where another patient ultimately tested POSTIVE for COVID, and the report states they think the dead vaccinated man caught COVID after he was admitted, from the other patient in the same room.
So the damage to the organs of the now dead vaccine recipient, took place BEFORE he was infected with COVID by the other hospital room patient.
Worse, once the vaccinated man actually got COVID, it spread so fast within his body, he apparently never stood a chance. Here are tissue images:
The full postmortem report is published at ScienceDirect.com (HERE)
HAL TURNER COMMENTARY
I am not a Doctor or a Scientist so I cannot offer a competent medical analysis, but as a layman, from where I sit, this doesn’t look so good.
The Postmortem report says clearly “ These results indicate that the patient had already developed relevant immunogenicity through vaccination” yet he got infected by another patient at day 24 (after vax) upon being admitted to the hospital, and died 4 days later.
It’s hysterical bullshit written by lay-people with an obvious anti-vax agenda who blatantly don’t understand the post mortem findings.
I also think they’re lying about talking to “one Infectious Disease specialist” or that’s a self appointed title by someone who isn’t medically qualified.
I had a read of the autopsy report and would interpret it as follows:
A very old, frail man with multiple quite severe underlying illnesses was hospitalised shortly after being vaccinated. He died from a severe pneumonia and renal failure which the pathologist thinks was bacterial in origin (covid is a viral infection, not bacterial).
While he was very sick in hospital he tested positive for covid and post mortem testing revealed the virus had spread throughout his body. We know vaccines aren’t 100% effective so a case report of someone testing positive for covid after being vaccinated isn’t remotely surprising or startling. However it didn’t cause any of the tissue/organ damage you might expect to see from a severe covid infection. So it’s possible that the vaccine was protecting him from developing a severe illness due to CoVid (although obviously couldn’t protect him against pneumonia from an unrelated, bacterial infection) We can’t be certain how well the vaccine protected him because he died just 48 hours after testing positive for covid so was only in the very early stages of covid when something else killed him.
Tagging in @Wolverine and @africanspur in case I’ve missed something important in the PM. Fairly confident I’ve got the main gist of it correct though.
tl;dr The article is blatant anti-vax agenda written by deceitful idiots. Please don’t share any further.
Another case study, without the death/anti-vax hysteria. Bake Off doctor just caught covid after being fully vaccinated. Sucks for him (especially the loss of smell
) but he’s pleased to know he’s protected against severe illness.And another.
Another case study, without the death/anti-vax hysteria. Bake Off doctor just caught covid after being fully vaccinated. Sucks for him (especially the loss of smell
Isn't the point to reduce the strain on hospitals which this has done?
Anti-vax is just a deliberate misunderstanding of what the vaccine does in order to undermine it.
Many thanks Pogue. It was obviously an agenda based story but to what extent I didn't know. My wife is a doctor so I've had an hysterical Aunt from Canada on at me for 2 days about the story. As my Mrs isn't back until tomorrow I thought I'd pose the question here. I'm going to send my Aunt your reply word for word. You answered with just the right amount of indignation to make her think twice about any other bullshit stories she might have picked up. You've just made my life easier so once again, thanks.
Basically, yes. We know for a fact that none of the vaccines are 100% effective so there was always going to be a lot of vaccinated people who caught covid. But the point is that that’s a hell of a lot fewer than those who would have caught it without a vaccine.
The second one of those examples is an interesting one. Avoided covid through both previous waves by wearing serious PPE. Got vaccinated, downgraded his PPE and caught covid. Probably a point in there somewhere about still being cautious if your job entails a fairly high risk of exposure, even after being vaccinated.
Thanks. Although I cringe about my pompous ranting being shared outside here! Hopefully your Mrs doesn’t spot any grievous errors in my summary.
The first rule of the caf is you do not talk about the caf
The second rule of the caf is you DO NOT talk about the caf
Third rule of the caf is someone yells stop, goes limp, taps out the fight is over.
Don't worry. You're safe buddy.
Yup pretty much.
Full study regarding autopsy findings here
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1201971221003647#!
Old partially vaccinated man has narrow blood vessels, likely leads of ischaemic bowel disease, presents with diarrhoea. Goes to hospital, gets bacterial pneumonia with kidney and electrolyte problems. Tests positive for SARS-COV2, doesn't have any post-mortem signs of COVID-19 (the severe clinical manifestation of the virus) likely from protection partially. Sadly passes away.
Test finds viral RNA in 7 out of 9 organs. Some fringe anti-vax says that this is every organ when there are 78 organs in the human body. Says this is a sinister thing for some reason. Case control study as well, unclear if generalisable to wider population in terms of findings.
But most interesting is what authors had to say about their publication's misrepresentation (had to dig deep to find this)
https://leadstories.com/hoax-alert/...ind-viral-RNA-in-every-organ-of-the-body.html
Kudos on the digging! What manner of absolute shitehawk would use this death to deliberately mislead and frighten people away from medical interventions which save lives?!? The world is sadly full of horrible people.
Beats me how my Aunt from Canada who's lived there for over 30 years got hold of that article from the Irish sentinel when most people from Ireland have never heard of it before. One of lifes mysteries I guess.
Just had a look at their Web page and it seems there's a live radio link between Ireland and Canada Sundays and Wednesdays full of weird conspiracy bullshit articles. Looks like I have another family member to put on the watch list.
Well, that's me now double bagged against covid. Bring on the unprotected hugs and inappropriate touching.
For those that are interested, that's me had two AZ shots. First shot had me a little run down. A few fleeting headaches. Nothing serious. Second shot left me feeling a little run down after it for a couple of hours. Had a lie down and now Im perfectly fine. No side effects what so ever. The other half had AZ too. First shot had her feeling the same as me, but with the added pain in the ass of a slight fever for a couple of hours. Then she was fine the next day. Second shot gave her a sore arm for a couple of days, and that was it. No other side effects. So if youre getting your second AZ soon, worry not. As I think its pretty safe to say there's no side effects with the second shot. And if there is, it will be nothing that will interfere with your day.
So much for waiting a year. Guess I better change my vote.
For those that are interested, that's me had two AZ shots. First shot had me a little run down. A few fleeting headaches. Nothing serious. Second shot left me feeling a little run down after it for a couple of hours. Had a lie down and now Im perfectly fine. No side effects what so ever. The other half had AZ too. First shot had her feeling the same as me, but with the added pain in the ass of a slight fever for a couple of hours. Then she was fine the next day. Second shot gave her a sore arm for a couple of days, and that was it. No other side effects. So if youre getting your second AZ soon, worry not. As I think its pretty safe to say there's no side effects with the second shot. And if there is, it will be nothing that will interfere with your day.
So much for waiting a year. Guess I better change my vote.
Had my jab at 3pm Sunday.
The pain in my arm is getting progressively worse all day today to the point now where its so tender the slightest touch or movement is agony.
The pain in my arm is getting progressively worse all day today to the point now where its so tender the slightest touch or movement is agony.
Have you broken your finger?
Seriously though that sounds like you should get it checked out. It shouldn't be getting significantly worse as far as I know.
Which vaccine? If AZ the advice I got was that bad pain in chest or head that didn't reduce with paracetamol was the main concern and if you got it to get yourself to hospital A&E ASAP just in case.
@Pogue Mahone @africanspur @Volumiza will likely be able to advise better if you haven't gone to your GP for advise already which as @Withnail said is probably a good idea.